Author Topic: Updating  (Read 688 times)

Offline Tom 10

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Updating
« on: November 19, 2017, 06:14:30 PM »

   Up
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 05:23:39 PM by Tom 10 »

Online indar

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Re: Updating
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 07:07:50 PM »

White catches my eye
tumble-washing over bed rocks -
I imagine from the chill of the bridge
the skeleton of a cutthroat trout.

I have noticed how water causes the sand underlying it to ripple in a pattern that resembles the flesh of fish. I imagine the way water makes patterns flowing hard over rocks could appear similar to a fish skeleton.

Is it true that geologists currently are scrapping the idea that erosion forms the first path that becomes the river bed? I don't know if I buy that---some grad student had a paper to write and another will come along to change it back. There is no solid ground in this current world of cynicism--no ultimate truth.

I don't know if the application of my analogy---relativism breaking the world apart holds in the last stanza---I appreciate my reading of it that way. ;D ;D

Whether taken as such analogy or as a reflection on a natural scene with attendant imagery and wonderful word choices I love the poem. Is the repetition intentional: cutthroat trout/ cut down limestone/ cuts through time? I amtrying to figure out if it serves a purpose.

Offline Tom 10

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Re: Updating
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 08:01:17 PM »
Hi Indar,
I should have had more clarity with this - the reference is to the Arkansas River rather than rivers in general.  The Arkansas River flows through a 1,250 foot deep gorge before it reaches my (new) town.  The new thought is that the gorge was created by a doming of the earth followed by a splitting of the dome, which then became the river bed.   You will recall that the Minnesota River flows through a river bed and river valley which it did not create - the Warren River carved what is now the Minnesota River valley - weird, huh?  The Warren River helped drain Lake Agassiz and the Glacier which sat upon it.

So to the N. of this poem it is more about the fact that his 'knowledge', or what he understood to be knowledge, has been superseded and made obsolete.  Still the water, which cuts through rock and time and carcasses is coming for him, splashing through the fog.  Or at least that's what I was going for.  And in that way, yes, the repetition of "cut" was very much intentional. Whether it works poetically is an entirely different matter. 

I share your angst about the growing facts-mean-nothing movement, if movement is the right word.  More like quicksand, cesspool, rock slide, etc.   When its on your mind, like mine, it's easy to read those themes into something jelloey like poems.  For what its worth, I did not have those thoughts in composing this poem.


Good observation - the sand ripples water bodies make on lake/river/ocean bottoms.

As always, thank you for reading and engaging.

Cheers.

T
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 08:13:16 PM by Tom 10 »

Offline drab

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Re: Updating
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 09:01:12 PM »
Hi T,
I enjoyed the read.
I took it (water) to be information; the way we are being bombarded with ever increasing volumes of it. So much that it's nearly impossible to figure out any truths...if indeed there ever were any  :)
But it works on just an observational level too.
To live, with gentle but cunning deceit, and accept the consequences, is the destiny of every man.

Online indar

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Re: Updating
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2017, 02:17:00 AM »
I think that's the theory behind the formation of the grand canyon: you have to drive up to a pretty high altitude to look down into it--guess that could not have been erosion


Offline duck

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Re: Updating
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 06:44:07 AM »
Hi Tom,
Overal I really like this a lot - typically excellent merging of observation and idea, though being very simple I saw the water as water not anything more topical. The title though does not do much for poem in my opinion as it hints too strongly at those other concerns and is very 'dry' excuse the pun.
The first S is trenmendous and draws the reader to be the observer very skilfully - involving immediately several senses. However, you might consider all the THEs. Moreover, 'I imagine from chill of the bridge' is ambivalent. Should it be? Do you mean the N feels chilled standing the bridge or does the N touch the bridge and find that the bridge itself is cold? Does it matter to the poem?
I have to confess the cut repeats don't appeal much to me but are easier on the ear than 'cut down limestone' which makes limestone seem like a fruit or some other plant. I guess you mean cut down through limestone but needed to avoid the repeat of through.

The phrase 'this crease to make its way' is awkward to read and understand. Should there be a comma after crease? Why bed AND crease, though they both echo each other in a lovely image reminding of the creases in a bed?

Sorry a few annoying questions distracting from a lovely and in the best sense simple poem. Oh and by the way, maybe try 'Geologists now say' rather than 'Today geologists say'
Dave

Offline Tom 10

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Re: Updating
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 11:49:39 AM »
Hi drab - thanks for the reading and the kind comments.  maybe it works best just on the observational level.  :)

Indar - I did not know that about the Grand Canyon, but I've never been there.  I hope to remedy that shortly.

Dave - and thank you for the reading and good feedback.  Your points are well taken.  You identified what I also feel to be the weak areas.   I thought 'the chill of the bridge' could suggest several helpful things.  Ambient temperature, chill of being alone, chill of seeing the fish skeleton tumbling below him, the chill of . . .  well, either its there or it isn't. 

Thanks for the good feedback.  Hoping to kick the rust off the keyboard.

T

SharonLeigh

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Re: Updating
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2017, 07:31:56 PM »
I really like this, Tom. The skeleton of the trout is a strong image and really focuses the piece, for me. As with drab, I took the water to be a metaphorical vehicle, of course, yet maybe not information so much as time, or the n contemplating inevitable mortality, though it works on other levels too of course. Much enjoyed!

Best,
Sharon

Ps: will you be considering a different title?

Offline Tom 10

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Re: Updating
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 11:51:35 AM »
Hi Sharon,


Thanks for reading and commenting.  You got all that was here (and maybe a squeak more).  The alternate title I'm toying with is White Catches Light.  Seems a little better, but still not there.


Cheers.


T

Offline Mark T

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Re: Updating
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 02:08:53 PM »

I saw this when it first appeared and thought it good. I like the structural subtleties inherent in this piece including the alternating 3/4 stanzas. But each stanza carries a different POV aspect, smoothly transitioned. 1 is first person, 2 is group, 3 is indirect narrative and 4 is observational. Hidden in plain sight, how cool is that?

The theme and imagery are clear, crisply clear, original, bright and direct. The poem's language works in layers, appeals to the mind's eye, and ends well.



Only nits are 'bed rocks' > bedrock? riverbed rocks? What are bed rocks?

 - and, subjectively, what about ...

Now the tumble of rapids
splashes in through naked fog
from every direction.

>>

Now the rumble of rapids
splashes through naked fog
tumbled from every direction.


Very nice poem, Ty.