Author Topic: Moonlight - haiku  (Read 1498 times)

Offline Zulu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Moonlight - haiku
« on: June 21, 2015, 02:26:21 PM »
Shimmering moonlight,
Reflects off a dark lake,
Lone wolf cries

Moonlight is actually more to the traditional Japanese haiku - so that's 2-3-2 stressed syllables versus the more popular English version of 5-7-5 syllables regardless if stressed or not.

I find the Japanese version a bit harder than the English so decided to try my hand here.


Thoughts, etc.

Offline kateD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
Re: Moonlight - haiku
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 03:20:25 PM »
Looks to me like you pulled it off well. No nits here.

Kate

Offline Zulu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Moonlight - haiku
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 02:56:09 PM »
Kate, thanks very much

Offline Mark T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4097
Re: Moonlight - haiku
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 04:39:38 PM »

Well, if you had actually written it in Japanese instead of English it might have come across as original and authentic and perhaps justified the tutorial. Instead, what we have is a three-cliche pile up on the glide-off to Dullsville.

shimmering moonlight
dark lake
lone wolf

Really?

I would suggest paying more attention to content than format regardless of whether it is English haiku with a Nipponese syllable scheme or non-standard putative free verse with rhyme enforcement. Just my opinion, use or lose.

Mina phuza amasi lapa KwaZulu. Wena?
 



   

Offline Zulu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Moonlight - haiku
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 06:07:30 AM »
Well, if you had actually written it in Japanese instead of English it might have come across as original and authentic and perhaps justified the tutorial. Instead, what we have is a three-cliche pile up on the glide-off to Dullsville.

shimmering moonlight
dark lake
lone wolf

Really?

I would suggest paying more attention to content than format regardless of whether it is English haiku with a Nipponese syllable scheme or non-standard putative free verse with rhyme enforcement. Just my opinion, use or lose.

Mina phuza amasi lapa KwaZulu. Wena?
 

I suppose that's an attempt at an insult - if it is, you'll have to try much harder. Your comment is, after all, neither advice nor a proper critique.

This is an English speaking forum is it not, otherwise I'd have written it in Japanese.

You attempt to come across as knowing Japanese haikus, however, you don't. A traditional Japanese haiku can be as cliched as you said - Matsuo Basho's Old Pond haiku unaltered by English translators whom foolishly insist on adding in additional words that don't belong to match the 5-7-5 serious is that "cliched"

It literally is:
Old frog
Jumping into
Water Sound


As they say ungaphuzi lapho idelabuthongo do - do not drink when the hyena do.

Offline duck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
  • The best laid plans of mice and men turn to ...
Re: Moonlight - haiku
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 06:15:14 AM »
Hey
I do love those handbags coming out at dawn on the site here. The haiku did not inspire me much intellectually or emotionally, but then they seldom do, but was well presented, I thought. The difference between Mark's take on the poem and the original is that Mark removed the connection thus filleting it a bit unfairly.

Do you have any more Haikus, would be interested.
Dave

Offline Mark T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4097
Re: Moonlight - haiku
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 04:32:29 PM »

I suppose that's an attempt at an insult - if it is, you'll have to try much harder. Your comment is, after all, neither advice nor a proper critique.

It’s still a comment, not an insult. The same thing has been said here many times by many people in many ways – when content follows form, the tail is wagging the dog. Slavishly following some ass-rigid rhyme or syllable scheme is the copout for those who can’t or won’t write free verse content. In the process the so-called content gets distorted and contorted but we’re all supposed to appreciate it because there’s a pattern. BFD   


This is an English speaking forum is it not, otherwise I'd have written it in Japanese.

Exactly my point. Why babble about the Japanese form and then write it in English. But… please do go ahead and write it in Japanese – would genuinely like to see what it looks like.


You attempt to come across as knowing Japanese haikus,

No, I don’t. But now you mention it, are there other types of haiku beside Japanese? And does haiku really take a plural S?   


however, you don't.

I agree. See above questions.   


A traditional Japanese haiku can be as cliched as you said –

No, I didn’t. I said your effort was clichéd. Which it is.


Matsuo Basho's Old Pond haiku unaltered by English translators whom foolishly insist on adding in additional words that don't belong to match the 5-7-5 serious is that "cliched"

It literally is:
Old frog
Jumping into
Water Sound


If this is unaltered by English translators, how did it end up in English? 
I suspect much is lost even in the direct translation although the phrasing is still quite original and pleasant – but what does this poem have to do with your scribble?


As they say ‘ungaphuzi lapho idelabuthongo do –‘ do not drink when the hyena do.

Mlungu scrape something arbitrary off the Web? A hyena is not something to particularly worry about, unless you are an old Japanese frog maybe. Chuck a stone at one and it’ll run off, unlike a lion. ‘Do not drink when the hyena craps upstream’ is more like it.
 

PS. Dave – I was identifying the clichés, not reworking the piece. Handbags at dawn – brilliant concept – I’ll have one with a croc tail handle, a fringe of porcupine quills, warthog tusks for a clasp, and the sun behind me.