Author Topic: Screwed  (Read 8670 times)

Offline drab

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 09:14:20 PM »
Either way you're f***ed S.
I wouldn't consider this to be a poem, just an attempt to sound clever. I don't believe it's even ironic, to me it reads like the essence of a bad poem written by a teenager. Death and religion are pointless topics unless you show us something.
Bottom line is, there's nothing new here, and I doubt very much that you consider this to be a poem.
Might look good on a tee-shirt, but it don't look good here.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 09:36:05 PM by Alice, a Country Gal »
To live, with gentle but cunning deceit, and accept the consequences, is the destiny of every man.

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 09:28:19 PM »
Um . . . yikes.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 09:30:36 PM by Wolfe »

Offline Alice, a Country Gal

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2013, 09:42:52 PM »
Drab, please review this section of the guidelines for this board.

Quote
4.  Critters:  Try to keep your comments focused on the poem and its strengths and weaknesses, rather than other poster's comments.  If you genuinely think that following a particular critter's advice will make a poem worse rather than better, it may be worth saying something, but in general "defending" poems is unnecessary and contributes to the misperception that critique is unwelcome on this board.

Thank you,
Alice
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The universe is made of stories, not of atoms. -Muriel Rukeyser, poet and activist (15 Dec 1913-1980)

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I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.
-Mohandas K. Gandhi

Offline Chizzy

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2013, 09:50:36 PM »
Hm. For me it reads a bit too much like those motivational quotes that crop up in movies like Mystery Men. If you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail. If you don't master your rage, rage will be your master. It's a cute kinda observation. Is it poetic? Well, no. Do I think it's a poem? Well, no. Will it look good on a t-shirt? Maybe.
This is not an exit.

Offline drab

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2013, 05:01:05 AM »
Hi Alice,
Did you post the relevant guideline? 4. Critters?  :-\ :-\ :-\
To live, with gentle but cunning deceit, and accept the consequences, is the destiny of every man.

Offline Amie

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2013, 07:31:36 AM »
Hmmm. I'm sure there used to be a guideline that said, "comment on the poem, not on the person" (ie, "I don't like the poem" rather than "you have no skill in writing poems" or "you sound like a wannabe clever teenager")

Maybe I didn't include it because I didn't think the poetry critters needed to be told that  :-\ - if so, I hope I was right.

I'm totally in favour of honest un-sugar-coated feedback, but you got dangerously close to (or perhaps actually crossed, depending on perspective) the line between criticising the poem, and sounding like you were criticising Skip for writing it.

Maybe I should include a specific guideline like, "critique the poem, not the writer"?
"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet." - Kafka

Offline Amie

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2013, 07:57:12 AM »
Okay, to avoid future ambiguity, I have added guideline 4a.
"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet." - Kafka

Offline 510bhan

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2013, 08:07:34 AM »
I suspect the comment was a play on the poem's title -- either way you're screwed . . . and then the reasons why.

Offline Amie

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2013, 09:42:16 AM »
Well sure, but I don't see how that makes the comments less offensive ???

Direct is fine (as in "I really disliked this", preferably followed by reasons why, and even better if you can offer constructive advice on how to improve).

Where you start to get into grey areas (in my opinion) and potentially truble is where you:

A) offer your opinion as if it is fact (ie "this is a bad poem" instead of "I dislike this poem" - the first is an opinion, the second is a fact. Facts are preferable.). Your opinion may very well be the same as that of 90% of readers, and there may be a direct correlation between the opinion that a poem is crap and the reader's knowledge of poetry - but it's still an opinion, and it generally ruffles people's feathers more when they are stated as if they are more than that.

B) make obviously belittling comparisons (ie "like a bad poem written by a teenager" - I've been guilty of similar, but hopefully I've learned to rephrase things more helpfully over the years)

C) make assumptions about the writer's motivations (ie, "trying to sound clever" and "you don't think this is a poem either")

Any of these in isolation could be fine (or all of them, if you are dealing with someone very thick-skinned like Mark H) but when you put them all together in a few lines with no tiny bone thrown to chew on it sounds... Harsh. And if unbridled harshness made people improve as writers, I'd be all for it - but I'm not sure it does. At least, not without some good pointers in the right direction at the same time.

Just my opinions - I don't want to inhibit people from posting their honest opinions, but neither would I want to discourage people who are genuinely motivated to learn more about poetry from trying and developing, and there ought to be a happy medium there...

"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet." - Kafka

Offline drab

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2013, 11:29:00 AM »
I'd have discussed poetic merit if any existed. Read my post again, there's nothing personal there.
And most of the other people seem to agree that it's not really a poem.
Thanks 5. At least you understood my post. :)
Jeez, you mods are fierce touchy about your own.
Im flattered that I've inspired new guidelines. ;D
To live, with gentle but cunning deceit, and accept the consequences, is the destiny of every man.

Offline Amie

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2013, 11:41:13 AM »
Welcome to the hall of fame ;D

To be honest, I wasn't as alarmed as Wolfe. I was more of an "ooo, ouch, that could have been gentler" than Wolfe's "yikes" (i mean, sheesh wolfe, you're sort of famous for your yikesy comments** ;) ) - But since Wolfe and Alice both commented on it, I sort of thought, "well, my skin is maybe a bit thicker than average, and a little more tact wouldn't be such a bad thing in any case."

So, there you have it - a new guideline if your very own! :D

** makes a run for it...
"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet." - Kafka

Offline Alice, a Country Gal

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2013, 03:12:32 PM »
I'd have discussed poetic merit if any existed. Read my post again, there's nothing personal there.
And most of the other people seem to agree that it's not really a poem.
Thanks 5. At least you understood my post. :)
Jeez, you mods are fierce touchy about your own.
Im flattered that I've inspired new guidelines. ;D

Actually, we're touchy about a lot of things, but in this case it had/has nothing to do with Skip being a moderator. He didn't post here as a moderator, he posted as a member who, from time to time has been trying his hand at poetry. He admits his poems aren't great, that's why he generally doesn't post them here.

So, why not help him improve, show him how to fix it, even a little bit.

I would give it a try, but I know I'm no great shucks at composing poetry either, so my help would probably be useless.
 

MWC Charity Publications.
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight>
The universe is made of stories, not of atoms. -Muriel Rukeyser, poet and activist (15 Dec 1913-1980)

R. L. Copple's: http://www.rlcopple.com/

I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.
-Mohandas K. Gandhi

Offline heidi52

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2013, 03:49:40 PM »
I was the first to suggest it was not a poem. Others tried to explain the difference between a catchy slogan and a poem. It's only three lines and it's not a poem. Where do you go from there?

Are we getting to the point where we need to start sugar coating stuff for senior members? God knows we have to do that for the newbies, but I thought if you'd been here more than a few months your skin toughened up. 

Offline Skip Slocum

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 04:01:51 PM »
A friend of mine has been trying to teach me the difference between poetry and verse -- both are supposed to induce or prompt an emotion and or construct imagery through words.

 -- the art of rhythmical composition, written or spoken, for exciting pleasure by beautiful, imaginative, or elevated thoughts. --

I realize now that this was more akin to a pondering than a poem but you gotta admit we got the emotional response part going, yes-maybe?

I'll keep working on things guys. I might come up with one someday.  ;D

Offline ma100

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Re: Screwed
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2013, 04:40:35 PM »
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Jeez, you mods are fierce touchy about your own.

 ;D Actually, no we're not. I bet there has been just as many fist fights in the mod shop as on threads. ::) But what we do do is follow the rules to the best of our abilities. We don't agree all the time or even like the same people.

I'm not having a dig here guys just telling you as it is. What goes for the prose goes for poetry too. Try and help instead of crushing enthusiasm.

Now I could come in here show you all up with my poetry, but being the greatest poet there is, I wouldn't want to embarrass you all. ::) >:D Do you think they believe me. >:D Mark how does the da dum thing go?

Skip is giving it a go and braver than me. :o :o He is also a member too. ;)

Skip, sorry mate, it doesn't work for me. :-*

No you don't have to sugar coat stuff Heidi, honesty only ever helps. I can't see one whinge from skip. But rules do apply wherever members are on the boards. ;)