Author Topic: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College  (Read 3369 times)

Offline Matt Walker

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2012, 12:02:36 PM »
how can Oakland University assign stories of having sex with teachers and then suspend students who merely write they find one attractive? The duplicity boggles the mind.

Another point you could make to them.
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Offline mouselady

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2012, 12:38:39 PM »
Even thought I never expressed wanting to have sex with Ms. Mitzelfeld, how can Oakland University assign stories of having sex with teachers and then suspend students who merely write they find one attractive? The duplicity boggles the mind.

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Offline WordBird

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2012, 03:37:19 PM »
Kowboy,

As an instructor, I can at least understand her POV. I think the school may have over reacted with the suspension, but we just can't be too cautious these days. I recently had a student tell the entire class that he bought me a dozen roses for Valentine's Day. And he walks me from the class to my office every day, no matter my attempts to get away from him. It has gotten to the point that I have informed my boss of his unwelcomed comments (most of which I have not included here), just in case anything should come of it.

And we can't too soon forget that the Virginia Tech killer was first noted by his English Prof as having written some rather disturbing things. Now I am in no way comparing you to a freak like that. I'm just saying that there is a fine line between freedom of speech and simply saying things that don't need to be said.

IDK, I'm just saying. If a student wrote an essay of similar nature and turned it in to me, I would have at least had a discussion with my boss about it.

Offline Kowboy

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2012, 10:43:19 AM »
Kowboy,

IDK, I'm just saying. If a student wrote an essay of similar nature and turned it in to me, I would have at least had a discussion with my boss about it.

WordBird:

Thanks, and that is exactly what happened. In the OU Student Handbook, when a teacher and student can't come to terms, the student is to meet with the department Chair, in this case Ms. Susan Hawkins. Ms. Hawkins refused to meet with me despite her written obligations. Her meeting with me is designed to diffuse these types of situations and when she didn't it escalated into an international event.

I offered to settle this matter long before it became public which would have saved me and Ms. Mitzelfeld much embarassment, however, VP of Student Affairs Mary Beth Snyder thought a student conduct hearing was the route to take. When I told Ms. Snyder she didn't have much experience in these types of matters, she became incensed and told me she had over thirty years of academic experience. Therein lies her problem, academic experience, not business experience. In business, one asseses the opposition's strengths and weaknesses as well as one's own. She failed miserably. Michigan taxpayers deserve better administrators.

Kowboy

Offline Kowboy

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2012, 10:44:54 AM »
I want to take an opportunity to thank OU Dean of Students, Glenn McIntosh, for his very helpful email of November 15, 2011, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act:

“…I am totally dismayed by her (Mitzelfeld’s) continuous inaccurate characterizations and attacks… Since Corlett has not made any threats to anyone…”

http://thefire.org/public/pdfs/cab0e8aaaf3f80aacf5209e7ca92240c.pdf?direct

Unfortunately, repeated threats have been made. Threats to the rights of students by Oakland University according to Gillian Talwar, Oakland ACLU Lawyer’s Committee Chair, in a January 23, 2012 email: “…this is not the first complaint we have received recently about Oakland University and its exclusionary policies and practice.”

So OU admits in writing that I haven’t threatened anyone and the ACLU admits in writing that OU repeatedly threatens student’s rights.

Kowboy

Offline WordBird

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2012, 10:49:16 AM »
The handbooks have written procedures for a reason. Obviously the person involved here is afraid of conflict resolution and deemed it easier to just get rid of you. I'm sorry you have gone through this. It appears that a simple meeting would have benefited everyone.

And I also agree with your assessment of academic experience vs. business experience. That is what makes me a 'relatively' good instructor. I've had to deal with all types of situations. You can choose your spouse, but you can't always choose your students OR your co-workers.

Doo-Doo happens.  :)

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2012, 01:22:10 PM »
They suck but you should have known better.

Offline Kowboy

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2012, 08:21:33 PM »
They suck but you should have known better.

thatollie:

I should have know better than to follow the class syllabus that suggests we record first impressions? I should have known better than to follow my instructor saying there were no topical restrictions repeatedly? Or is this another ageist attack where somehow a 56-year-old is somehow supposed to be able to predict the future better than a 20-year-old? Why would someone never say that a white guy should never have done such a thing (racism), but it seems perfectly fine to say that because of my age I should have known better (ageism)?

Explain please.

Kowboy

Offline WordBird

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2012, 05:19:09 PM »
Kowboy,

I'm not replying on behalf of Ollie.

However, I will say this: Just because we live in a country that values freedom of speech, doesn't mean that I can holler "Big Fat Slob" to every overweight person I see.

With Freedom of Speech comes Responsibility. Drinking is legal in the US, but drinking and driving is not.

Offline heidi52

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2012, 06:02:23 PM »
Or is this another ageist attack where somehow a 56-year-old is somehow supposed to be able to predict the future better than a 20-year-old? Why would someone never say that a white guy should never have done such a thing (racism), but it seems perfectly fine to say that because of my age I should have known better (ageism)?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that someone with 56 years of life experience should be able to predict the outcome of their behavior better than a twenty year old. It's called maturity. Plus at that age you should have better impulse control than a 20 yr old as well.

And once your instructor told you that your actions were making her uncomfortable, a reasonable adult might have been able to predict where the situation was going to go from there.

I'm really curious; if the tables were turned and you were the instructor and had a gay male student who fixated on you in a sexual way, would you be cool with whatever he chose to write about you?
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Offline Kowboy

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2012, 06:21:33 PM »
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that someone with 56 years of life experience should be able to predict the outcome of their behavior better than a twenty year old. It's called maturity. Plus at that age you should have better impulse control than a 20 yr old as well.

And once your instructor told you that your actions were making her uncomfortable, a reasonable adult might have been able to predict where the situation was going to go from there.

I'm really curious; if the tables were turned and you were the instructor and had a gay male student who fixated on you in a sexual way, would you be cool with whatever he chose to write about you?

heidi 52:

My instructor never told me that my actions were making her uncomfortable or to stop. Never. I turned in the assigment that followed her written and verbal instructions and was suspended.

I don't know where everyone is getting the sexual stuff. She asked for first impressions in her syllabus and I gave her mine. She does have nice fingernails and is blonde, but how is that not like saying she drives a Chevy to school? I said she was attractive and I stand by that assessment. I did not say or imply I wanted a sexual relationship with her anywhere.

Were I an instructor and had a problem with a student, I hope I would follow the OU Student Handbook which has specific guidelines. They were not followed in my case.

Kowboy
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 06:23:29 PM by Kowboy »

Offline Kowboy

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Re: Kowboy's Kicked Out of College
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2012, 05:30:02 PM »
Here's the latest press release from FIRE:

http://thefire.org/article/14285.html

Kowboy