"Greatest Ever Novel"

[Nick]

Here's another collective novel-writing project some of you may be interested in. The organisers say:

Writers wanted for 'Greatest Ever Novel'

The only catch is that each writer is only allowed to write 500 words. However, we are currently looking for work good enough to be included for the start of the novel, and to enable the first writer to set the scene, initial characters, etc., we will allow 1000 words. The finished book will hopefully be published, and for this reason quality and not quantity is the vital ingredient to make this project work. For more information please see www.bidfortheworld.com/greatestnovel.html
 Good luck....is your work good enough?

For more info, please visit the website above. This project has only just been launched, so this is an opportunity to get in on the ground floor of what may (or may not) become a successful, high-profile group writing project.

Nick 

[Writers Block]

Personally Nick:

Any work submitted will become the copyright of this website, and the writer

will give up any claim they have to the work.

 

No fee will be paid if the book becomes published.

I consider this suspicious and down right scandalous, to be honest.

Giving up all right to work submitted - if sending a script to an agent was the same we would not do it.

After all if work is submitted, yet not included in the book, a writer could use it in another project and if that project was published the website could then claim a part of the royalties as they own the rights to a small section.

Call me paranoid, but I'm only paranoid because I need to be.

[WeAreWriters]

Personally Nick:

I consider this suspicious and down right scandalous, to be honest.

Giving up all right to work submitted - if sending a script to an agent was the same we would not do it.

After all if work is submitted, yet not included in the book, a writer could use it in another project and if that project was published the website could then claim a part of the royalties as they own the rights to a small section.

Call me paranoid, but I'm only paranoid because I need to be.

Lol, I agree, they've been advertising quite a bit on forums, and from the start I though it was pretty dodgy.

I'm not sure if it was the same fella or someone with a similar idea, but they initially made it so that you have to pay to be a part of the book  .  But then they recieved quite a lot of criticism on their post about it, and they quickly disapeared 

[rasbull]

Hello, in response to the two posts that have been made I would like to comment on the following.

Firstly there is nothing 'dodgy' about anything to do with the site. The site has been setup with the aim of the project to do exactly what the title says, to create the World's Greatest Novel.

Writer's will only give up copyright to the material if it is actually included in the novel. The site holds no copyright of work only published on the site and not selected. The site has agreed to pay 25% of any publishing fee to the writers.

The fact that it costs nothing to enter the project, no fee, no payment of any kind makes this a non profit project. The only money the site will make will come from the sucess of the book and any publishing fee from the final novel.

We have started this novel purely as a writing project, so please rest assure this is not a scam, money making or dodgy project of any kind.

The fact we have had 151 submissions to date proves this fact.

We hope people will support this project and submit work and hopefully make this project a success.

Richard Shepherd

[cheryl-wright]

Writer's will only give up copyright to the material if it is actually included in the novel. The site holds no copyright of work only published on the site and not selected. The site has agreed to pay 25% of any publishing fee to the writers.

As the owner of www.writer2writer.com website, I've inadvertently (but happily) become a 'champion for writers'. 

One of the things I've constantly fought over the last few years is websites who place unacceptable conditions - such as copyright becoming the property of the website/publication/insert appropriate.  Asking writers, any writers, to give up ownership of their work is downright unscrupulous.

I personally refuse to enter any contests that have either or both of these clauses, and urge other writers to do the same. I've emailed editors and website owners who have used those terms in their conditions, and have several times managed to have them removed.

I also refuse to write non-fiction for magazines or websites that have similar clauses attached for articles that pay low fees.  If I'm to lose my copyright, I need to be appropriately compensated.

We have started this novel purely as a writing project, so please rest assure this is not a scam, money making or dodgy project of any kind.  The fact we have had 151 submissions to date proves this fact.

Sorry Richard, it proves nothing at all except there are some very desperate people out there trying to get published, and/or they didn't read the fine print.

A few years and six books back I may have been sucked in myself, but not these days.  Writers are being conned and scammed from every corner of the world, and we have to ensure our copyright is protected.

Writers, go in with your eyes wide open, read fine print, and double check the terms and conditions.  Your work is worth fighting for - take up the challenge and only deal with honest and upfront publishers.


Cheryl Wright
www.cheryl-wright.com
www.writer2writer.com
www.aussieauthors.com

[Narnian Prince]

I've got to admit that I was very tempted to take a look at this ad but in retrospect I've known Cheryl Wright's work for a few years now and I also belong to one of her writing groups where she helps writers to get themselves out there.  This lady truly knows her stuff and I woudln't take her advice lightly.  Many times she talks from direct experience and is doing so to save others from harm.  I think it would be a real bonus for My Writers Circle if we could have Cheryl stay with us for the long term.  She is a very successful author who knows her craft well and has conducted online courses (of which I have had the pleasure of taking one) to help writers improve their writing also.  Thanks for coming by, Cheryl.  I, for one, appreciate it. 

Have a truly wonderful and Blessed day, everyone! 

Chris

[cheryl-wright]

I've got to admit that I was very tempted to take a look at this ad but in retrospect I've known Cheryl Wright's work for a few years now and I also belong to one of her writing groups where she helps writers to get themselves out there.  This lady truly knows her stuff and I woudln't take her advice lightly.  Many times she talks from direct experience and is doing so to save others from harm.  I think it would be a real bonus for My Writers Circle if we could have Cheryl stay with us for the long term.  She is a very successful author who knows her craft well and has conducted online courses (of which I have had the pleasure of taking one) to help writers improve their writing also.  Thanks for coming by, Cheryl.  I, for one, appreciate it.

Hi Chris,

You're making me blush!

This looks like a great place to be, and I must admit I've been thinking about buying Nick Daws program for ages now, and finally bit the bullet yesterday.  That's how I've arrived.

I won't promise to spend a lot of time here because I'm bogged down with deadlines right now (which is why the ezine is overdue!).

I have an article due for a new Australian magazine Sept 1st, and also my latest non-fiction book due soon.  Luckily my publisher gave me an extension since I've spent so much time in hospital lately, which was lovely of him. I've just sold a book, (you'll read all about it in Writer to Writer later this week) which requires some rewrites, and goodness knows what else may pop up.  Hopefully not too much - I'm flat out right now!

Aussie Authors is taking heaps of time at the moment as well, especially since the site is really new.  I spent most of today updating the site, which although it's work, was part fun as well.

But I would like to hang around if I'm allowed.  Do give me a nudge if I forget though! 

For those who are not familiar with Writer2Writer, there are loads of freebies there - all geared up to help you earn an income from your writing.


Cheryl

[rasbull]

In response to the postings listed above -

Firstly this project was never about money, hence no entrance fee to submit your work. It's about creating a worldwide novel which will be seen by thousands. If www.worldsgreatestnovel.com was about money making we would have charged an entrance fee for sure. The chances of making any money even if published is extremely remote to say the least.

This project was solely about writing for fun and having the chance to have 1000 of your own words and creativity forming part of a book that will be seen by thousands.

There are thousands of writers who write for sheer enjoyment, and it is a shame that everything boils down to money. I for one, would just like to have my work included in such a project.

Its not about ripping anyone off, scaming anyone or robbing the writers who enter.

Finally, the clause on the website is there for one reason and one reason only.

Say for instance that the book has been completed and 100 writers have been voted in turn and the book is complete. If a publisher then comes and asks for permission to publish, writer number 34, could turn around and decline to have his work published.

This way we can guarentee that the book will continue whatever stage we get to without having to be worried about someone pulling the plug and ruining the project for everyone else.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

Please not any monies raised will be paying towards the commitee of editors, hosting, time etc.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY!
THERE ARE EASIER WAYS THAN THIS TO MAKE A FEW QUID!
THIS IS ABOUT A WRITING PROJECT..AND NOTHING MORE!

[Narnian Prince]

Hi Richard, 

   I've got to be honest about something here.  It strikes me a bit strange that you're raising so much fuss about the money aspect of this project (only one poster did point out that you require a fee) but I believe the main points being raised by Cheryl were more in regards to our giving up our rights upon being published.  I'm sorry but that's something no smart writer would do.  Thanks (again) to Cheryl, I've learned about reading a lot of the fine print and even though it may slow me down in getting published in some areas, it will eventually help me to become more successful (and protected) in others.  I also find it interesting of late the number of authors who are suing or bringing action against other aauthors (particularly in Hollywood) for stealing ideas.  When you cough up your rights, other people can steal your ideas and that does make it hard for you to claim your share of the well deserved fame and fortune.  I mean no offense but we're just watrching out for our backsides here.  I hope things will work out for you in some way. 

Chris

p.s.  I've submitted works based on the sheer enjoyment factor but I've yet to come across ANY publication that asks me to cough up any rights to my work.  I'm not looking fro money outright so much as the recognition that goes with being published.  The money, I do know, will come later.  An example of this type of success is that I have recently been asked to write and edit a small newsletter for our company's WellBeing Centre.  All rights are reserved and remain with me.  There is NO money involved in any way but I do get the recognition.  Case closed. 

p.p.s.  "Any work submitted will become the copyright of this website, and the writer will give up any claim they have to the work"  This is, in fact, taken right from your web site!  Why deny it?  And why would any author do this?

[cheryl-wright]

Firstly this project was never about money, hence no entrance fee to submit your work. It's about creating a worldwide novel which will be seen by thousands. If www.worldsgreatestnovel.com was about money making we would have charged an entrance fee for sure. The chances of making any money even if published is extremely remote to say the least.

Strange you should say that Richard, because not once did I mention money. (Go take another look if you don't believe it!)

I've been involved and published in at least six anthologies, and not once have I collected any money for my efforts; I've done it for the recognition, and in the instance of a cancer anthology, did it for the charity concerned.

(I was recently asked to be involved in another anthology and received a nice surprise when I was told there would be royalties. It's such a rarity with these that I didn't expect it.)

Make no mistake, this is about the rights of writers - nothing more, nothing less.  Change your wording and allow authors to retain their copyright and all will be well with the world.  And your website. 


Cheryl

[Writers Block]

Hello, in response to the two posts that have been made I would like to comment on the following.

Firstly there is nothing 'dodgy' about anything to do with the site. The site has been setup with the aim of the project to do exactly what the title says, to create the World's Greatest Novel.

Writer's will only give up copyright to the material if it is actually included in the novel. The site holds no copyright of work only published on the site and not selected. The site has agreed to pay 25% of any publishing fee to the writers.

The fact that it costs nothing to enter the project, no fee, no payment of any kind makes this a non profit project. The only money the site will make will come from the sucess of the book and any publishing fee from the final novel.

We have started this novel purely as a writing project, so please rest assure this is not a scam, money making or dodgy project of any kind.

The fact we have had 151 submissions to date proves this fact.

We hope people will support this project and submit work and hopefully make this project a success.

Richard Shepherd

I note your response and also thank you for responding.

My original claim still stands, despite what you claim in your quoted reply

Whilst I now admit there is a clause that states you will now pay 25% of a total amount.

However my other and to my mind, more important point still stands.

I enclose a quote I copied and pasted:

Any work submitted will become the copyright of this website, and the writer

will give up any claim they have to the work

**********

Writers who qualify and actually have their work included in the World's Greatest Novel will

be eligible for a fee.*

**********

 

*The fee will be 25% of the total amount offered to have the book published, split between however

many writers it takes to complete novel.

You still claim all work submitted becomes the copywright of the website.  It is bad enough - as cheryl-wright already points out eloquently - that copyright to material is lost, but it isn't just to material that ends up in the book, but ALL work submitted to the website.

Link to the material in question:
http://www.bidfortheworld.com/policypage.html

- personally I would prefer it called terms & conditions, it's easier to find - policies, is I feel is somewhat ambiguous.

[Nick]

I've been following this discussion with interest. I note members' concerns, but I would like to say a word on Richard's behalf.

First of all, I have run similar multi-contributor projects like this myself, and I can testify that it is a nightmare if at the 11th hour (or later) one contributor decides to withdraw his or her permission to publish. For that reason, I don't think it's unreasonable that contributors whose work has been accepted (and those people only) should be asked to relinquish their copyright in these specific circumstances.

Also, let's remember that each contribution will be a maximum of just 500 words. Typically, that would represent maybe two or three hours' work. I don't really think that giving up your copyright in these circumstances is such a big issue. If I was inclined to contribute, I would see this as a bit of fun, a chance to exercise my writing skills, and an opportunity to promote myself and my freelance writing services. Obviously, if the book is published, there is the chance of making some money from it too, but I'd have to say I think that's long odds against.

Having said all that, I do think it's unfortunate that the website still says that anyone contributing work (even if it is not accepted) will relinquish their copyright to it. Richard has said on this thread that this stipulation only applies to people whose work is accepted for the book, and I think the 'Policies' statement on the site should be changed to reflect that. It might not hurt, also, for there to be a little more explanation on the site as to why it is necessary for contributors to give up their copyright. But overall, I don't believe that Richard deserves to be vilified for setting up this project.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe authors should defend their rights, but I don't think that this is really the issue here. The usual caveats apply - if you don't like the terms of the project, don't apply for it. If you do, go into it with your eyes open, and realise that it is unlikely to be a money-making proposition, but might have other benefits for you.

Just my opinion, of course!

Nick

[Writers Block]

Fair points all Nick.

Especially about changing them where they can be.

An explanation as to why, would also be very useful, and perhaps make the decission understandable.

I await the outcome.  It might have been an interesting idea to have been involved with, however as it stands now I would not consider it.

[cheryl-wright]

If the clause about 'all submitted work' becoming the copyright of the website was removed or changed, I'd be happy too.  (If it said something to the effect of 'all work used in the book' that would be totally different - I have no problem with that.)

I still can't understand why that stipulation is there.  In Australia there's a large magaziine that runs a yearly competition.  They have the same stipulation, and many good writers refuse to enter for the same reason. 

Legally they can stop you from using your own work in these instances, so why have such a stupid and restricting clause to start with?



Cheryl

[Writers Block]

Legally they can stop you from using your own work in these instances, so why have such a stupid and restricting clause to start with?



Cheryl

That explains it Cheryl, imo.

It seems a synical attempt to trap the unwary.  Especially after comments and complaints that have still not affected a change.

Defending their terms whilst ignoring an aspect that was critisized is typical of big business.  Kind of unusual to see the same practice on something operated by a small number of individuals, or maybe not and I havn't come accross it before.

The website looks very professional now, the Policies (re: Terms & Conditions) are equally professional.