Author Topic: j  (Read 1976 times)

Offline Twentington

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
j
« on: January 21, 2010, 05:38:41 PM »
b
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 10:16:56 PM by Twentington »
You can tune a piano.
But you can not tune a fish.

randolph

  • Guest
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 08:45:33 AM »
The phrasing is confident enough but the meaning is lost in places (particularly towards the end). Someone is bound to pick you up on the fact that you can't seem to make up your mind whether to capitalise the first letter of each line or not, so it might as well be me! The general consensus here and elsewhere seems to be that it's best to abstain from capitalisation - I don't have strong feelings about this, but I have strong feelings about inconsistency. You need to pick one or the other.

Main trouble is your poem screams THIS IS MY OPINION. It's far more rewarding for the reader if you give them enough credit to make up their own minds. Paint them a picture and let them rub their chins. Your tone is too didactic.

Also, your narrator has clearly never been to the British Library. Which rocks.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 08:50:44 AM by randolph »

Offline John Yamrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 10:31:21 AM »
randolph hit the nail on the head.  absolutely
Since 1970 John's published 2 novels, 18 books of poetry, and had more than 1,300 poems published in mags around the world.   His new book, (his 20TH) called CAN'T STOP NOW! is available here:

http://www.epicrites.org/

CCRP

  • Guest
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 04:18:27 PM »
Doesn't work for me.

It's too high and lofty. Give me down-to-earth poetry anytime.


Besides, a poem that starts out with 'I don't like libraries' isn't likely to appeal much to most readers that are fond of books. To me, a library is heaven. Too bad I can't take all those books home with me and keep them.  ;)

And bookish types are spineless? Is it your intention to insult your readers, or am I just being daft?

Offline DIZI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1962
    • My Blog.
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 06:34:20 PM »
Quote
spineless'
comes across as the library lover,
so an insult too to the reader.

Quote
I donít like libraries,
they bore
right into me
made me not want to read on.
If you'd put I adore the local
library

I definately would have wanted more.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 06:39:20 PM by DIZI »

Offline Akeith (Gray)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Waiting for a drink...
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2010, 12:22:14 AM »
Hi 20ington:

I'm with randolph about his point regarding the didactic tone. Instead of letting your N or speaker in the poem tell or state an opinion and/or thought, give the reader a picture or image that conveys what the N or speaker is trying to say.

(of course, I think I just reworded and presented again what randolph said here in an earlier post.)

With your talent, you should be able to do this.


CCRP

  • Guest
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2010, 06:36:39 AM »
One of the things that I wanted to convey was the idea of a library as a kind of massive animal. Obviously it is intended to be somewhat ironic in tone, given the literary medium, and the 'bookish types', and the 'spineless' were probably just too low quality too funstion as puns. No offence meant!

Okay, you're explaining your poem here. I take it you understand what that means, don't you?

If a poem needs explaining, it failed.

And although I'm sure you didn't mean to offend, you always have to be careful with what you say. Your words are offensive to avid readers - the bookish types you call spineless.

Offline eric

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10576
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2010, 08:39:19 AM »
I agree with Dizi and Nelodra.  It's okay to make fun of readers of books, a vanishing breed, but your spineless comment is not fun, it's just a gratuitous insult.  You may not have meant that, but there it is.  Also I agree with Rand and Gray and John.  Your excessive telling just comes across as pontification, and rather misplaced at that.  This is not a poem that works.

Oh yes, and capitalizing the first letter of each line is "just wrong" these days.  Try writing with normal capitalization ... the first word of each sentence and proper nouns.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 11:12:10 AM by eric »

CCRP

  • Guest
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2010, 09:46:04 AM »
I disagree that a poem that needs explaining has failed.

Look at it this way: If your readers don't get the true meaning your poem (whatever that may be) and you feel the need to explain even part of it, you have not succeeded in communicating what you  intended to communicate. To me, that reads as failed.

I don't mind if you disagree, but that doesn't take away the fact that you haven't been able to reach your readers.


Also I think my poem doesn't need explaining, but after it gets misinterpreted, it's argument, not explanation.

If you think it doesn't need explaining, then I wonder why you bothered to explain. Obviously you felt like we didn't understand your poem - not they way you intended it. You can call it argument (and that leaves me with the question as to why you'd want to argue with your readers - and with those who are kind enough to take time to read and provide you with feedback on a poem that insults them!), but to me it's still explanation.

Now, I personally don't mind if you get into a snit over the feedback you received, but fail to receive it with grace, and you will alienate your reviewers. They might not be inclined to come back and provide you with feedback next time.

Also, you could have learned, instead of defend a rather mediocre poem.

Offline eric

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10576
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 10:35:33 AM »
Out here where I live, it's a pretty simple way of life.  People tend to believe you mean what you say unless you use irony or humor or otherwise show them you're just kidding.  My guess is if you told them flat out they were yellowbellied and spineless, a lot of them would be alienated.  They might be so alienated they'd plain beat you up.  It would have nothing to do with political correctness gone mad but a lot to do with an extreme, blase sense of alienation.  That was one problem with your poem.  It lacked the proper sense of irony, for the reasons Nel specifies among others. This was a writing problem. Your writing problem.  
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 11:13:26 AM by eric »

CCRP

  • Guest
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 10:37:36 AM »
Then show us your jaded former librarian. Show us your disillusioned ex-academic. Show us why they are so vengeful - but don't talk down to us.

Surely you can write. You're talented enough. You just showed us that in your previous post.  It made me laugh, and you should be happy I wasn't just drinking a cup of tea, or you would now have owed me a new keyboard.  ;)

Write us a poem that will evoke the same powerful emotion in us. And it needn't necessarily be amusement. As long as it's not condescending and insulting to your readers, you should be doing fine. Make us laugh, or make us cry, but for goodness sake make us feel something.

Offline eric

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10576
Re: Parrhesia Paralysis
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 12:07:30 PM »
About arguing or not arguing with the criticisms of your reviewers, Wolfe has stated the definitive answer from the prose side ... and essentially the same thing is true here and has always been.  

http://www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=25453.0

As Nel says, you will lose reviewers if you contend with them.  You ask them for their opinion, not for a joust.  You will be deciding what to do with your poem, so it does not matter much who is right or wrong about it on the boards.  At some point, rather earlier than later, you just move on.

As I learned it, the correct response to a review you don't like is "thank you for your comment."  
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 12:41:58 PM by eric »