Author Topic: My first attempt at modern verse  (Read 11283 times)

Offline caseyquinn

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 07:52:22 AM »
hugh, enjoyed this piece - good first attempt!
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Offline eric

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2009, 08:52:09 AM »
techno geeks?  my dear boy, are you describing yourself?

twisted wheel

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 09:01:19 AM »
Thanks, Herron. I don't know what I'm letting myself in for, venturing onto the poetry boards, as I know nothing of the technicalities of modern poetry. It's a long time since having to scan Ovid's verse, and learning the virtues of iambic pentameters.

Hugh
as long as you're totally bonkers, you'll fit in ;D

Offline eric

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2009, 09:25:22 AM »
Modern poetry is strict, but it is only brutal for those who know nothing about it and think not only that they need know nothing about it to write it, but that they know more than the people who do know about it.  A form of enfant-terrible-ism. Hugh was in the former category but, with the natural humility of an intellect at work, found out enough about it to develop a natural interest. Kudos to him.  

It is a false distinction to oppose modern poetry standards and good writing.  Those so-called standards are simply suggestions for writing well.  The important thing is to write well, not to follow standards.  Usually the standards will lead you there.  I think the standards of modern poetry have nothing to do with technogeekism and nearly everything to do with the consensus of poets around the world about what good poetry is and can be.  For one example  of a non-geek describing his life in the art, see the Nobel Prize lecture by Seamus Heaney, 1995.

You could say that you'd like to build a deep space telescope but just forego the engineering and astrophysics background.  You can say that, but you won't do that worth a damn.  I do not think that Miles Davis records will tell you all you need to know about poetry, not just like that.  You need to know the meaning of the language and you need to know about life, real life, confronted raw and personal, for years or decades.  You need to win and lose.  You need to meet the Djinn, know the meaning of the blues.  Or at least some rough equivalent.

Actually, modern poetry has no boundaries so it can contain all sorts of writing, good and bad, and usually does.  We are talking about good modern poetry here which is very similar to good poetry in general in many ways, while quite a bit  different in others.  But far be it from me to tell you what I think I know.  I'll leave that for the  geeks.  Right now I have to fix the water in my house, which froze up last night.  Then I'll work on the heat, while the birds tweet in the woods.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 11:15:53 AM by eric »

Offline herron

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2009, 10:57:29 AM »
techno geeks?  my dear boy, are you describing yourself?

 ;D LOL!!
Perhaps 'techno' was the wrong word (actually, I'm quite sure of it). To correct myself, I was actually refering to the many so-called experts who seem to delight in telling others (often very brutally) how things should be structured, when their own efforts look like something a 10-year-old might have stumbled upon while diagramming sentences.

However, I actually do agree with (most of) what you said in your later post.

I'm also sensing that I often 'rub you the wrong way,' as the saying goes. But I'm sure you can take it, having met the Djinn, and all.   ::)
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Offline eric

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2009, 01:23:08 PM »
no, you don't offend me, it's just that when people say foolish, ignorant things about MWC reviewers, I sometimes choose to set the record straight

Offline herron

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2009, 02:17:41 PM »
no, you don't offend me, it's just that when people say foolish, ignorant things about MWC reviewers, I sometimes choose to set the record straight
Au contraire!  Methinks you were miffed, at least.   ;)

There are a lot of critics out there, and loads of other forums. Unless my comments made the hairs stand up on the back of your neck  - just a little bit - what makes you think I was talking about anyone on MWC?  ::)

In any case, this thread should be about Hugh's poem.

And I still like it.
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Kyle

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2009, 06:25:56 PM »
Awesome.  First attempt?  Awesomer.

Offline eric

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 06:30:31 PM »
Yes indeed, Kyle.  Hugh has some classical education in poetry and hated the thought of modern poetry as degenerate, formless, and pornographic.  I worked with him at some great length to convince him otherwise, he took it under advisement nothing more, but here we see him doing a nice, well-wrought piece with obvious value.  A fine job. 

Kyle

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 06:39:05 PM »
Interesting.  That leads me to ask: Hugh, has your opinion of modern verse change, or are you just dabbling in the Devil's work?

Offline Hugh

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2009, 11:06:39 AM »
I’ve tended to keep out of the poetry section because in the past, whenever I’ve made comments, it’s been like putting a fox in the chicken run – feathers flying everywhere. But I have read a lot of the poems.

Gradually, gradually, I’ve begun to see how minimalist writing, split into lines, can be more effective than trying to put a similar thought into prose, with the necessary connecting words. For instance, in a prose sentence, I would have to write, “She was naked…” As it was, the emotion I felt seems to have transmitted to some readers, despite the starkness of the writing.

Eric, I take your point about hating the thought of modern poetry, or at least, some of it. I still think that some people seem to regard profanity, scatology, even pure filth, as not only acceptable, but obligatory. Ever since the Lady Chatterley case opened the door for explicit use of hitherto taboo language, writers have been pushing the boundaries. As you will know, obscenity laws haven’t changed much, but case law has made it unwise for anyone to sue for publishing salacious material.

The f-word has become so commonplace that it has lost much of its shock value, so other, more shocking ways have to be found to say, “I’m a poet. I can say what I like.”

Kyle, many thanks for your comments. Has my opinion of modern verse changed? I can only give a straight answer – yes and no (what I said to Eric will explain the no part).

I must also thank Amie for her part in introducing me to the virtues of non-metric, non-rhyming verse.

Hugh

PS. I do have another one drifting around I my mind, but the words to put it into a short poem are eluding me. It would probably take 500 words to try to convey in prose.

Offline Victor

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2009, 11:34:33 AM »
grabbed my heart.....broke my heart....

both those phrases are genuine cliche. and both sport the dreaded word "heart'. maybe its intentional but it didnt work for me.

Other than that, I'd say its good.


And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. -ECCLESIASTES 1:17

Offline Hugh

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2009, 05:35:08 AM »
Thanks Victor. All my clichés are good old-fashioned, 100% genuine…

Offline Mark H

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2009, 05:19:24 PM »
I’ve tended to keep out of the poetry section because in the past, whenever I’ve made comments, it’s been like putting a fox in the chicken run ...

It's because of comments like this:

The f-word has become so commonplace that it has lost much of its shock value, so other, more shocking ways have to be found to say, “I’m a poet. I can say what I like.”

You judge people, write them off for doing x because of y when you have no idea why they do x. It's infuriating.
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Offline herron

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Re: My first attempt at modern verse
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2009, 07:30:31 PM »
Infuriating?

C'mon.  :-\    Starvation in third world countries, while we throw out excess food, is infuriating.

Children who have to grow up abused is infuriating.

Women who, through no fault of their own, are victims of domestic violence is infuriating.

Politicians who care more about re-election than helping their constituents is infuriating.

People, on a writing forum, who may have different opinions ... irritating perhaps .... but it's the ones who take themselves too seriously that are infuriating.
 ;)



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