Mini challenge — Tomatoes!

[eric]

Response to Shard (not Mark)

Eric-- "setting": no, actually, I did proofread the poem before posting-- making sure my dyslexia didn't get the better of me. I wanted "setting"-- the intransitive verb (i.e. the sun sets) to mean to "sink" or similar.

You proofread?  You mean this amazing writer of poems actually proofreads too?  Well.  But it's not a proofreading prob ... The sun can set, but people sit.  There is no auto-sinking meaning for "set." The sun, moon, etc., can set when they appear to move toward the  horizon of the earth, thus "sink" ...  there may be a colloquial use of set in the sense of "settle" -- but it's not standard English.  For me, the use of set just appears wrong, though some others may not stumble.  I suggest placating the generation of whom N.'s guy is part (at least) by using settle or something.

Is "fucking" an abstraction? I dunno. Is "eating", "sleeping", "drinking"-- I mean, certainly one could use a metonymy of those words. They're still "large" words.

They certainly describe real things in the physical world, of course eating (for example) could be chewing, tasting, gulping, swallowing, digesting; and fucking could be broken down into specific component parts, I mean, you might be doing it well and truly and only focus on some of those parts but not others.  So yeah, it is a  bit of an abstraction I guess,  you'd think this was the most non-abstract of words, but not really.  I guess that it describes a range of activities, though, does not mean it's vague in the common understanding.  We know it when we see it.

So, in that respect, yes, I think the girl in my poem is being overly, bashfully telling. When writing this, I thought the directness of that line would be apt. Maybe not.

Well, here, I think maybe you get a pass, no ticket from the telling police.  She is describing what she wants to tell him.  Technically that's telling, but she is also being extremely forthright about what she wants to do.   And you're right, the line is very direct and powerful.  I like it.  For me, at least, this is once of the places where telling works.  

[eric]

At last, there's a true limerick!  Nice job, old cob.

And I use the terms "old" and "cob" advisedly.

[Mark H]

... The sun can set, but people sit.  There is no auto-sinking meaning for "set." The sun, moon, etc., can set when they appear to move toward the  horizon of the earth, thus "sink" ...  there may be a colloquial use of set in the sense of "settle" -- but it's not standard English.  For me, the use of set just appears wrong ...

Gelatin sets. What's more, it seems to do so without appearing to move towards to horizon. 

[eric]

Hm, does this mean you've been watching the gelatin?  Exciting process, hm lad? 

[Mark H]

I have both absolute
faith
that tomato jell-o
will transmogrify from
viscus liquid
to fruity colloid
and empirical evidence
(from Darwin no less)
that over time
-- through a process of unnatural delectation --
it will evolve into
a wobbly blob.

[eric]

Yes, but you're not calling Shard a wobbly, fruity blob are you?  Well I can see fruity (in the sense of spurting cherry tomatoes, etc.)

[Mark H]

concrete

[Shard]

All right-- Eric, I have my spell check on when typing up my pieces-- I aim pen to paper before that-- and I do pay attention to the words I'm typing. With this one, I went back and reread more than once. I agree with you about "setting". "settle" would work. I'll fix it. Thanks. I can't argue with you about the abstractions, just letting you know, I'm a bulbous blob of nectar. :-)

Spell Chick-- I'll give you an example from Li-Young Lee's poem "Persimmons":

In sixth grade Mrs. Walker
slapped the back of my head
and made me stand in the corner
for not knowing the difference
between persimmon and precision.
How to choose

persimmons. This is precision.
Ripe ones are soft and brown-spotted.
Sniff the bottoms. The sweet one
will be fragrant. How to eat:
put the knife away, lay down newspaper.
Peel the skin tenderly, not to tear the meat.
Chew the skin, suck it,
and swallow. Now, eat
the meat of the fruit,
so sweet,
all of it, to the heart.

Donna undresses, her stomach is white.
In the yard, dewy and shivering
with crickets, we lie naked,
face-up, face-down.
I teach her Chinese.
Crickets: chiu chiu. Dew: I’ve forgotten.
Naked:   I’ve forgotten.
Ni, wo:   you and me.
I part her legs,
remember to tell her
she is beautiful as the moon.

Note: the entire poem is a lot longer-- these are only the first three stanzas. See how he describes the persimmons? Such minute, sensory details. It's a tantalizing experience, and it's a precursor of the erotic scene. You might try something similar.

[eric]

OK, that's a brilliant review for Patti (Sp Chk), and it's only 6 lines long, with a quote.  I love Li-Young Lee, Amie introduced me to his stuff a while back.  Could you send me that whole poem by PM (so as not to mess with his copyright?)  It's such a pleasure to have an accomplished reader (that would  be you) to learn from.

Next thing you might do is take one of your long and intensely syntaxed, excruciatingly worded reviews and translate it into plain language with simple, declarative sentences in English.   But here's the trick -- do not lose an iota of the complexity, nuance, lit background or atmosphere.  You can use the Lee one for an example, but go beyond it.

Hi Patti, did we make up sufficiently last night?  Sorry I was harsh.

While not sleeping last night I spent a long time thinking about how  a person could eat in numerous positions, against the wall, draped on the couch, on the floor, on her knees folded under her, on her hands and knees on the bed, and etc.  Now I get up and the first thing I see is Li-Young Lee doing the job much better.  Ah well, I think I'll have coffee.

[bowmore bill]

Someone has to start the ball rolling.  I'm currently between chapters and in a funny mood  So...

I am a 'cherry' tomato,
still 'on the vine' as it happens.
This means I'm virgin,
pure,
untouched,
unspoiled.

Unlike my bigger cousins
who have been
right royally fucked.
Left, Right, and Centre,
with pesticides,
poison sprays,
and genetic splicing.

Seriously now,
where would you rather
sink your teeth?

Gyppo

Hi gyppo, on tomatoes, i like your style. Particularly the first verse, i'm one of those, at 71.

[pb]

a spoonful to savour,
brood but no din,
my balls, like tomater,
dribble down her chin