Author Topic: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?  (Read 7580 times)

twisted wheel

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2009, 04:59:40 PM »
i've always struggled with loglines so i would be more than happy to put my next one up for critique. you all raise good points. 8)

LinRobinson

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2009, 05:06:40 PM »
Quote
If on the other hand, anyone wants to learn more about not only the craft of Screen Writing, but the business end as well, What's the problem in exploring it right here?

Because this is not a screenwriting board with people with expertise in the industry answering the questions.   I'm somewhat experienced in that, but hardly an expert.  I DO take meetings with producers and such and have workshopped loglines on sites that speciallize in that.

If you want to write screenplays, your best bet is a screenplay site.   Let me know if you're interested and I'll show you some.

This is no "old guard" thing like Wolfe is trying to make it.   It was just my offhand comment on the idea of putting loglines on posting online scripts.

This has been a rather discouraging experience and makes me wonder why I'm doing this at all.

Again, if you want to learn about screenwriting, let me know and I'll give you some directions.

Wolfe

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2009, 05:37:10 PM »
You know, the ironic part, I said this would open Pandora's box and made a comment about sensitive toes.

Let's be clear.  It is a suggestion.

A suggestion.

I see no reason to get enraged, post rage, or pm rage about differing opinions. And what I find most disturbing?

"Because this is not a screenwriting board with people with expertise in the industry answering the questions."

And this is why I made the suggestion. Let us help make that area more expert in advice and answers. I will step up to the plate if needed and gladly.  ;)

The 'old guard' refers to the established authors, agents, and otherwise who resist suggestions and changes from those newly entering the field.  I do not mean you.

I'm sorry my suggestion on this thread to help the fellow screenwriters so discouraged you. Can't image why. But my regrets since it did.

Again, it's just a suggestion. :)

Wolfe
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 05:44:05 PM by Wolfe »

Offline Spell Chick

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2009, 05:54:29 PM »
It would seem to me that if something is expected by those who might actually purchase some of our work, it would be something to explore and practice and learn more about.

Our sponsors, WCCL, offer courses on screen writing. In fact, it was one of the prizes we gave away during our Contest Week. I don't know if that makes us a screen writers forum, but it seems to me we have a whole board set aside for that and so ...

One of the issues with any forum is the anonymity of the posters. We tend to think we know who is behind the names we give ourselves. In fact, we don't really know if there are agents or producers or publishers, or any other Big Person here. We know only what we are told and what we can surmise.

Some people give better advice than others, but it is all advice - given with the best intent. At least, I've not found anyone adamantly forcing their opinions especially about unsound practices. We advise and coach and try to get the best from each other and improve our own writing in the process. At least that is the goal.

If, and I'm not a screen writer (or a remunerated writer of any stripe) but IF there is a need for a logline when presenting a script, why not practice using them, writing them, honing them and increase your own skill level?

And if you already know how to do this, you can coach or help others, if you so choose.
If you don't think it is necessary, you don't need to post them. That doesn't seem like an issue to me. But posing the question seems like a worthwhile endeavor and will generate interest in the project. Or not. Maybe.

Patti
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LinRobinson

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2009, 08:04:32 PM »
I'll say again what I said before the insecurity attacks set in.

There's not real need for loglines in posted scripts and I really didn't expect anybody to flip out about my saying that.

Best way to handle logline learning is an area specially for loglines.

Anybody seriously wanting to write screenplays, let me know, I'll see if I can steer you to places where people know about that.


Wolfe

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2009, 08:16:55 PM »
Please do not post personal attacks with veiled insults.  I attempted to go above and beyond, even apologized for something I think petty, but now you push it in public and private.

How ironic is it that you continue to post rage, private message me rage (three and counting now...), and now say someone else will flip out or show insecurity.

For God's sakes.

It's an opposing opinion.  People can post opposing opinions and suggestions without going into the deep end, you know?

Quit being so sensitive!

Wolfe
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 10:20:52 PM by Wolfe »

LinRobinson

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2009, 08:20:29 PM »
What "rage"?  What the hell are you going on about kid?

You said people should post loglines.  You used the word "insist".   You replied to my comments that it might work better another way by being alarmed at the "dismissal".  Now you just keep chewing on it and yelling to me about going to moderators and having a hissy fit.

You should probably settle down.  But I don't really care, much less insist because I won't read this thread again.   You're a pain in the neck.

Sorry for suggesting something that works pretty well on real screenwriter sites.  You do what you want.

Wolfe

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2009, 08:25:34 PM »
What "rage"?  What the hell are you going on about kid?

You said people should post loglines.  You used the word "insist".   You replied to my comments that it might work better another way by being alarmed at the "dismissal".  Now you just keep chewing on it and yelling to me about going to moderators and having a hissy fit.

You should probably settle down.  But I don't really care, much less insist because I won't read this thread again.   You're a pain in the neck.

Sorry for suggesting something that works pretty well on real screenwriter sites.  You do what you want.

I count over three personal attacks here.  Please count how many I've directed at you.  :(

I'm not mad or in need to settle down.  I'm genuinely surprised and shocked you feel the need to try to turn this into a pissing contest. Because I suggested screenwriters add their logline to their script for critique?

Seriously?

Wolfe

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2009, 08:31:47 PM »
I would like to once again point out that we all make choices. Those who wish to have their screenplays reviewed can post a logline or not. Those who post a logline in a separate thread, as with tag lines or queries, can get them reviewed or critiqued there.


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Offline eric

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »
Hm, you're both big boys although, Lin, in this pond Wolfe's a little bigger.  Neither of you are doing yourselves any favors today, though.  Neither of you are big enough to hurt the other one much, and there isn't much point in trying to drive one another off the website over a disagreement about workshop style, so I suggest you just back off.  In particular Lin, if you don't like the idea of Wolfe's thread you don't have to be here.  And Wolfe, come on.  Don't let him get under your skin.  If you consider his idea on its merit, you might or might not like it, or you might wish to go with yours.  Simple.

Guess what?  MWC is not a professional screenwriting forum, and it's not a forum limited to publishers, editors, and seriously published authors.  It's a writer's forum, and we do what we can.  Some damn good writing happens here, and some absolute schlock.  We don't get together to argue with each other ... we have a little fun and consider the craft.  Sometimes people forget that.

Also, what Patti said.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 08:52:23 PM by eric »

Offline Xerika

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2009, 10:09:26 PM »
Well, I was just on my way to bed when I saw this and felt compelled to comment.

I have to grudgingly ( ;)) agree with what eric says and also add a few remarks of my own.

I cannot see for the life of me why this thread seems to have got so out of hand when Wolfe introduced it, to my mind at least, as a simple word of advice for the newbie (awful word) screenwriters here at MWC.

Lin, whilst it's true that you have the biggest and most flamboyant signature line of anyone here on the forum, I really don't think that it is fair or honourable to cast stones at someone who I, for one, consider to be one of the most valuable contributors on this forum. Wolfe has spent many hours critiquing everything from query letters to extracts from novels with a wealth of professional knowledge and experience..

As for you, sir, what have you done other than join this forum to publicise your own self-published (no shame in that of course) novel?
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LinRobinson

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2009, 11:37:44 PM »
It is not self-published, though there's not shame in that.  Curious why you decided that.

I have not thrown stones at anybody here.  I made a contrary suggestion and ran into "disturbing dismissal" and  "insist" and a bunch of whining in the PM's.

I have not suggested outlawing loglines or any such thing.   I have not propounded "old guard".   I just said somthing different and have been watching in amazement ever since.

What the hell is the problem here, if it's okay to ask that?

Wolfe

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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2009, 01:56:34 AM »
How about simply adding a micro-logline to the title? We practice this in the subject line for electronic query letters. Check the example in the title for this reply.

Perhaps a header atop the page, bolded before comments, and the script?


Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman she meets, then teams up with three complete strangers to kill again.


Well, okay, that's not mine.  ;D  Thank you Richard Politto. If nothing else, I think the micro-logline would show a good starting point to inform potential readers and reviewers the overall theme, message, or plot.

What do you think?

Wolfe
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 02:02:32 AM by Wolfe »

LinRobinson

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2009, 02:06:20 AM »
I hate to set anybody off again.  But there is no such thing as a "micro-logline".

One good way to understand what  logline is, is to read TV guide or the cable menu channel.  You see little one-line quickies of films.  They seem easy...until you try doing one on your own script.   

The biggest problem with loglines is that they ramble on and on and are full of extraneous details.

Another is that they get coy and peter out with "hijinks ensue" type endings.

Try to write a simple sentence that expresses the concept and story of your script.



Keep trying.

THEN puff it up a little to a few lines, the "elevator pitch".

Then try a one page synopsis/query.

Some people then build that up to a "treatment".

Trying to hack a screenplay down to a treatment is masochistic.

There are websites and workshops that deal exclusively with crafting loglines.   It's a sort of mini-genre, in a way.

There are some tips and models of how to do it.

If you get to the point of sending a script to anybody in the real world, you want a solid logline.  And you want solid professional feedback on it.


Wolfe

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Re: Scriptwriters: Where's Your Logline?
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2009, 06:05:48 AM »
Again, I must disagree that loglines are difficult to create.  I find them akin to a novel's theme, hook, or tagline. If the writer focuses on them, it structures the work's entire plot, message, and goal.

Discussed earlier, in another thread, the line helps create the road map for the story.

As far as personal experience, well ... I find them easy.  :D  But, let me not toot my own horn.

That said, no one said scriptwriting, novel writing, or writing period would be easy. Yet, if you create the most difficult line first, there will be little struggle on this needed item later. Perhaps it's just me, but to quibble over jargon and minutiae where the result will benefit the writers in question...

Anyway, if nothing else, I hope this thread raised awareness of the logline. That said, I will use the technique and pass the suggestion to others.

Peace and moving on.  :)

Wolfe
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 06:15:45 AM by Wolfe »