Author Topic: Society blog thing  (Read 4066 times)

Offline Spell Chick

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Society blog thing
« on: March 24, 2009, 10:00:38 AM »
Is the field of psychology a function of society?

I'm reading about how children are scared for life if an authority figure raises a voice in anger toward them. There goes the planet.

But really. There is a contingency stating yelling at children irreparably harms them. Forever. They are lessened by the 'violence' of the act. They point to the psychology contingent saying they have proved this.

I've been watching some You Tube clips and I like the nature ones. Say you are watching a bunch of lionesses with their cubs. All is well for a while with the cubs practicing their skills and horsing around, as it were. Then, as all children in crowds do, they get out of control. A lioness will take a paw with claws withdrawn and smack the living crap out the cub. The cub can roll for feet. A lion will roar. Now that's yelling.

That's how Mother Nature intended it. Most mother/child relationships in the wild show mothers walloping the living daylights out of their offspring. There isn't a lot of forgiveness out there. If you make a mistake, you are someone's lunch. Mothers have to teach their children how to survive.

Then we have people and society. Walloping children who misbehaved used to be the norm. Now it is an abomination before God if there is a God. If not, it is an abomination before Man.

Baby lions aren't damaged by being smacked across the veldt but swatting a child on the diapered behind will destroy him. How did this happen?

Psychology is an inexact science. I have an acquaintance who claims if it isn't in numbers, it isn't science. So maybe psychology/psychiatry isn't even science. The practice is merely a reflection of the norms of society.

In the wild, incest isn't an issue. In the world of psychology, this is a biggie. We have complexes and diagnoses and it is enough to make us all shudder. Mother Nature doesn't think so, society does.

In the wild, violence is a way of life. It is kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. Even plant life has developed traits to ensure its survival – i.e. poisonous plants. In civilization, we have become so frightened of violence we have abdicated all sense. And added a variety of diseases to the DSM-IV.

Somehow, what was once normal behavior is now the reason for all that is bad. Instead, perhaps we should look at the societies themselves. We were not made for this overcrowding and the constant stimulus we endure today. In olden times, 150 years ago, nightfall meant you were done for the day. There were candles and oil lamps, but the jobs needing light were finished until the next day's sunrise.

In the evening, there was talk. The television wasn't switched on and the computer wasn't calling out to us. Video games weren't screaming in the background. There was true social interaction.

We call our modern parenting into question when any child is reprimanded and believe we are wounding him or her. Just look at how violent our society has become, it is said. And it is because of poor parenting and violence perpetrated against the child. You can treat a patient for bad parenting. How do you treat someone for bad world? But it is my contention that the world has become too much for us little humans.

There is no bonding time. Parents are rushed and so plop their children in front of a television beginning with Sesame Street and Dora the Explorer and continuing on to the reruns viewed over and over in nursing homes.

We expect our children to learn the rules of the game by osmosis or observation rather than by knocking sense into the heads. We are so frightened of the big, bad world we keep trying to make it safe. It was never safe. It will never be safe. And what we do is often counter productive.

We have wandered far from how Mother Nature intended us to be. Things won't much improve until we learn the rules of the game from her and then willingly teach them to our offspring. So take that.

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Offline RandomAmber

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 11:26:01 AM »
Oh am I glad you brought this subject up.  I agree with you, let me say that first.  This same kind of thinking that dictates the following:

Play a violent video game and you become a sociopath/psychopath. 
Have horror in your collection, then get your self checked in for fun days at a secure unit.

Read anything that isn’t fluffy and full of it turned out ok in the end, endings and you are doomed to walk the earth an outcast. 
Say, do you have views that if someone tires to rob/rape/kill/mug you then you can smack that bastard down and to hell if he/she cracks their skull on the floor.  Alternatively, you might even think that paedophiles and other deviants need the death penalty.  If so, you need to rethink along more acceptable attitudes buster because in our modern society, that’s not the way to think. 

You might be even thinking about eating meat well I have news for you, all the food our ancestors have been eating for hundreds of years is now no good, instead why not eat/drink food we modern scientists have boiled/extracted/reconstituted into your favourite flavours.  There’s no need for natural substances go ahead indulge in food fakery, it’s the 21st centaury way. 

Are you having a tough time not watching reality television, do you tire of hearing the phrases “Yeah like totally should have been voted of the island,” or “I think shark island is the best,” well that just tough now isn’t.  but wait, there’s a solution, pick up any brightly coloured rag and read all about other peoples favourite no hopers and chum change losers in Gossipity Do Dah magazine, read it and weep because wanting anything other than bullsh**t ain’t gonna happen.

Feeling ignored, Tired?  Are your problems weighing you down?  Does nobody care?  Well here at the Life is Swell Research Centre we have come up with a formula to chase those blues away.  Welcome to the Obliterator 2000, the shotgun that wipes away all debt, erases fears, sets your mind at rest and on the walls, the floor and the curtains.  Don't talk to anyone if you're feeling bad pick up the Obliterator today, yours for only 149.99. 

He’s under pressure, he lost it all.  Joe has nowhere to turn.  At We’re Taking You For A Bunt, we’re asking you to donate just 100 a month to A Right Wunch of Bankers so that they may enjoy their billionaire lifestyle while you rot in that cardboard box they sold you out for. 

Please don't have nightmares, do sleep well. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 11:31:05 AM by RandomAmber »

Offline Hugh

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 09:42:57 AM »
Your philosophical/psychological essays are great, Sp. Do you get them published? I bet they would spark off some readers’ letters from “Outraged” of Tunbridge Wells, or wherever the equivalent is in your neck of the woods.

“How dare anyone suggest, in this day and age, that I should beat my children and send them flying!”

Some articles I’ve written have prompted replies from furious readers who ask if I’ve been on another planet for the last twenty years. Editors seem to like stuff like that. Helps keep readers entertained, so sells magazines.

But back to your article. You suggest that lack of correction by parents (or teachers) can lead to the child becoming a violent adult. When I was at school, we knew that if we broke the rules we got beaten. Six of the best hurt the backside, but that’s all. I don’t know of any school friends who became violent people in adulthood as a result of physical punishment. On the contrary, we learnt discipline. Violence was confined to the boxing ring or rugger field.

It seems that gratuitous violence, even when resulting in the death of the victim, is now excused on the grounds of “diminished responsibility”. The poor fellow is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, or some such convenient label, and has forgotten to take his medication, so it’s not his fault that he stabbed the policeman.

I don’t know if you have yobs in America, or whether you call ignorant louts something else, but as I see the problem, we are now into the second, or even third, generation of yobs. If the parents are yobs themselves, what hope is there that they will teach their children to behave properly?

See what happens when you write these things, Sp? They send your readers off on all sorts of trains of thought.

More please.

Hugh

Offline PABrown

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 03:15:27 PM »
Hey guys, you know there is an excuse for everything. Parents blame the television and the television has scientists to blame the parent or home. We are so lazy now that scientist have no choice but to invent crap to make our lives "simple". It's pathetic. Who walks to the store anymore, who actually sits and listens to thier kids problems or the awesome day they had at school, who monitors the t.v. at home.

Scientist and all these reports about don't eat tomatoes, or don't sit in the sun, or how about if your tired, sleepy, angry, sad, take a pill and you'll feel better. No, get up off your butt and find something productive to do.

I'm only 28 and I remember when I went to school in Memphis, we got spanked on the hand with a paddle wrapped in duct tape. It took one time to get hit by that damn thing and I bet I paid attention after that.

PLEASE.

Everyone is so babied and always want to hear what they think should happen, not what is. If I see a reality show I'm changing the channel cause more than likely the sh**'s not real. Maybe that's how we became so swayed from the Bush administration....HUMMMMMMM!

You know what else, I have a kid, and he's great, BUT he does step out of line a little. If I tell ya once, okay you got your first warning, tell ya twice okay, after that third time of telling him stop or don't do that either one- he has to learn on his own or two his getting a spank spank. And yes that's what me and him call em' SPANK SPANK. I'm that crazy sports mama that can care less if my sons throws a temper tantrum. If he wants to fall all over the floor, I leave him there and guranteed the looks and stares other people give him cause him to get up,shut up and follow behind me. I'm a fun momma ::) but I know when to put the hard hat on.

If there is discipline in the world there should be discipline at home, but there is a limit. Parents don't have to beat the crap out of thier kid for taking a cookie or spilling juice on the floor (I've actually got into HEATED arguments with "friends" about beating thier kids for this), a simple look does the trick.We all took a cookie or two we all spill drinks, and we as adults are still learning the basics of the world. How can we expect a kid to know what we know when they haven't been here as long. It's basic education we teach at home.

People usually have outrageous kids because parents are either to busy to parent them right, too lazy to parent them right, have them around the wrong people/envirorment, or they just don't give a crap.

Some kids though are the spawn of the devil, I'm sorry but its true.

We can look for answer from scientists or blame Sex in the City for why our kids act the way they do, but the real reality is the first teacher's are parents and when somethings not right we shift our responsibility to the blame game.

And honey you don't want to get me started on the processed food. Since my family is deeply rooted from the south, the simple answer to that is grow your own if you can. It's simple, hard exercise that relieves stress, it's natural and has way more vitamins and anti-oxidants than "store" food, you know what the hell is put in your food/garden, and it's cheaper. A win win here!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 03:25:08 PM by PABrown »

Offline robc

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »
Hi people,  i find that i must agree with everything that has been posted here.
 From where i stand, i think that RESPECT  has been removed from the world. 
    Children no longer respect  their elders,  they no longer respect other peoples property. When i was a child if i was punished for something at school, i got it again at home.  Now the parent of the punished child is running to the school wanting to punch the teacher,  no respect for authority. 
Keep on ranting! It might get results

Offline dynodreamer

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 04:05:32 PM »
It's pretty important stuff you guys are onto here. That song by Whitney Houston a while back comes to mind. "Children are our future" The book shelves have been stocked and recycled year after year dealing with the raising of the next generation.We write about it, read about it, complain and pontificate at will. But ... (oh my butt), how many of us do practice what we preach. I'm one who did a miserable job. I would have liked to have been someone a little less dysfunctional in all my social intercourse through the years. I don't live under the weight of it these days, but I have regrets.
So too, do most of us and we move on in a parallel path to the clock which we find ourselves in obedience to observe.

My shtick? Kids need to inhabit the perception of their world within the framework of parental boundaries which are seen as being important to the parents to honor and uphold. Ego-centrific motives are instinctively in line for a challenge by them. We still tolerate children as those beings who have the potential to disrupt our adult plans rather than see them as those with a need to be equipped NOW, with the tools to function in tomorrows society .
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there isn’t any - Yogi Berra
[Ask a Doctor when he feels he might quit practicing Medicine and work on theory!]

Offline 505

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2009, 10:53:00 AM »
my idea is to introduce a cage-fighting system into schools.
whereby the good kids get shotguns and the bad ones get paddle wrapped in duct tape.
then they fight it out to the death.
i think that would definitly teach them some respect.

what do you think?
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Offline kk

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 04:49:05 PM »
Well,as an educator I'm thinkin' that's not such a good idea.  I was in agreement with y'all up to 505's post, and now I'm cranky. What I 'hear' most of you saying is that while some of us weren't raised in ideal circumstances, we did have parents that parented.  Seems to be that's not so much the case anymore. 
Unforuntately, I think that as the lines between abuse and teaching our children well have become more and more blurred a lot more people have become apathetic.  If they don't know what to do, they do nothing.  That's not the answer, nor is violence, (and I don't mean a tap on the diaper).  So, because of this apathy, there are kids (and adults) out there with guns, and no sense of right or wrong, and no conscience, and no one who gives a damn.  So what do we do about it?  How do we go about changing a culture?  Is it too late to put an end to this no fault society?  Perhaps if we stop worshipping the almighty dollar and get back to nature (as PA suggests) and putting people first instead of money and 'things' we can turn it around.  I was fortunate to grow up in a small, safe community and my children had the same good fortune, but it took a lot of effort.  It's not always easy to do the right thing, but it can be done and I think it can make a difference. 

Okay, that's it for now - I'm passing the soapbox on to someone else!

kk
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Offline robc

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 05:03:51 PM »
nice soapbox KK, while i agree with most of what you say,  should we not lay the blame for our apathetic society at the feet of our politicians as they are the ones bringing in all the "thou shall not" rules at the behest of all the namby pamby softies in our societies. there are times when a parent,  even the most lenient,  would slap the hand of a child as it reaches for a hot kettle or something similar.  Even that much discipline is deemed over zealous by some. Teachers cannot teach anymore for fear of reprisals,  mostly from pupils, back in my day we respected our teachers and were discipled if we were rude or disrespectful.  Maybe we should give some authority back to our schools and make a start there, after all they are "in loco parentis" in our place

Offline kk

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 09:56:32 PM »
Quote
should we not lay the blame for our apathetic society at the feet of our politicians as they are the ones bringing in all the "thou shall not" rules at the behest of all the namby pamby softies in our societies.

Aren't the voters those 'namby pamby softies' you're referring to?  I'm not sure we should be blaming anyone but ourselves.  I wonder if that's not perhaps the root of the problem - the blaming.  If we could stop laying blame on others and take the responsibility on ourselves, maybe then we could begin to make a difference.  I believe we need to model what we expect. That's a tricky business.  We have lost sight of whose right it is to decide what should be modeled.  Are you right, or am I? 

Once upon a time common sense seemed to rule the day, but where has it gone?  The frenzy of the 'no fault society' seems to have overtaken common sense.  We have gotten so caught up in the rights of every individual we can no longer see how that affects the group. 

Oops, look at me, back on the soapbox! :-[
“We will open the book. Its pages are blank. We are going to put words on them ourselves. The book is called Opportunity and its first chapter is New Year's Day.”

                                                                            ~ Edith Lovejoy Pierce

Offline Geraldine

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 08:40:49 AM »
A little disipline goes a long way but i think the type referenced in the original post is more of an abusive nature and for a sustained period of time. As far as playing video games and watching horror films, i too feel they have no effect on people as a general rule, there must be an underlying weakness to begin with.

With regards to the how wild animals interact, the very fact that they are wild shows how they differ and it may not do them any harm to behave in such a manner but in society if we all acted like that we would also be wild and unable to live in society, you wouldnt go walking with a pride of lions cos you may get killed, thats where the actions of the lioness affects her young, same would apply if we treated our young in the same way (a slap in the face with claws out ect).

So yeah, disipline is good to give children a snse of morality but beyond that it can have tragic consequences for them and many others around them and generations that follow.

love in death shows what love in life should be

Offline Spell Chick

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2009, 08:55:26 AM »
I am the grandmother now. So the results of my parenting actions are fairly set. They "kids" are in their 30s.

I didn't spank often. I was authoritarian, however. I had a bad boy bench and time outs. I had a barstool set in the middle of a room. I had a loss of privileges. I had a ton of different methods. But mostly what I had was consistent rules that were non-negotiable. I always tried to make the punishment fit the crime.

When I said No, no amount of whining in the world was going to get me to change that to a yes.
When the kids demanded an answer to some future option and I was unsure of the future, I would only say Maybe. The younger boy insisted on an answer. But only once. Because I told him, well, then the answer is No. So Maybe got to be good.

When the kids got in trouble in school, I generally believed the adult's perspective. However, when the adult was in error, I did help my child in his defense.

What happened in their young lives was that consequences followed actions. So if you made stupid choices and bad consequences followed, well as my niece now tells her own six-year-old, "You should have thought of that before."

We as adults have abdicated our role of responsible parties. It is "society's" fault. Or the other person's fault. Or it is some form of oppression or yadda, yadda, yadda. It is never the result of the bad choices we are making ourselves.

And in a small portion, that is probably correct. Society is too huge, too vast, too complex, too much. We were born to live in smaller communities with each of us known and responsible to and for the group. Now it is one huge mass that boils and roils.

All we can do is to take care of the small corner we are in. But running amok and blaming everyone else isn't the answer. And defending your child against all correction is deleterious to the child. He or she will grow up to be irresponsible and a whiner who doesn't see the errors they make result in the bad outcomes they are experiencing.

Children without discipline turn into really ugly adults. They crave borders and edges and will push until those borders are placed.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 08:56:57 AM by Spell Chick »
Little Bits of History A short essay on something that happened on any day.

Imperfect Reason My thoughts, such as they are.

Offline emma112

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2009, 04:37:56 PM »
Hey, Sp.

This is a very good topic. And I'd like to say how disappointed I am of today's society. It's absolutely ridiculous with the way the government is so over-protective, where you aren't even allowed to graze hands with someone on the street without being knocked down by the police, marched off to prison and being accused of attempted murder...

I am young, therefore I still remember when my parents used to scream at me if I did anything wrong. Have I ended up mentally scarred? Of course not! I think it was the best thing they did. Yes, at the time it was hard to deal with, but that's life. Get over it. It's not as if they've physically abused you, because yes, that does call for some attention of the authorities. But, it's only shouting. This creates a foundation of rules and regulations for that child, they get to know what's right and wrong.

And this is exactly what the problem is today. Many parents dare not raise their voices to their children, because most of them actually feel intimidated by their kids. Which is just not right! Shouldn't it be the other way around? If parents do not show a high authority figure, then they will be the one's who end up being controlled. They will be the one's who will have to pay to get their kids out of prison, because they will be so badly behaved that it would be Crime Central in every town.

The government has gotten in the way of so many rules, many natural rules actually, which are built up in our instincts. Those instincts are being pushed aside, whereas the views of the "ideal society" are being favoured.
I really don't know why things have changed so much. There is really no need for it. We did perfectly fine 50 years ago, and 50 years before that. Why has the government taken things so out of hand? I guess it does have a lot to do with building the perfect world to live in.

What they don't realise is that nothing and no one is perfect. 
Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us - Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)

Offline Spell Chick

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2009, 04:43:21 PM »
I used to tell the boys that I waited decades to be the parent, the one in charge and it was now my turn. I was taking it! If they wanted to be the boss, they could grow up and have kids of their own.

I have 3.7 grandchildren.
2 boys
1 girl
1 due in June but we don't know which brand
Little Bits of History A short essay on something that happened on any day.

Imperfect Reason My thoughts, such as they are.

Offline emma112

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Re: Society blog thing
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2009, 05:10:07 PM »
Oh, lucky you!  ;)

And I'm sure that all of those children are very well-behaved, Patti.  ;D

Thanks for posting this topic. It really does get everyone's opinions out in the open. Hopefully those government bodies are reading this thread.  :P Maybe we could teach them a thing or two on how to be real parents, who aren't scared to go against the rules. I think I see a rebellion coming on... heh heh.
Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us - Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)