Author Topic: Well maybe I am still so confused, just a little...  (Read 10722 times)

Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Well maybe I am still so confused, just a little...
« on: December 18, 2008, 03:00:55 PM »
I ran across this definition of "concrete poetry" ... http://poetry.about.com/b/2008/12/14/concrete-poetry-comes-alive-online.htm ...

and I must say I am totally against this concept (or definition) of concrete poetry. The term, in my opinion, has been kidnapped by the current "I" Generation (that's "I" for INTERNET-DEPENDENT),  a motley ragtag crop of offspring maturing into an artifical information storage dependence that leaves the cognitive skills of their brains underdeveloped and held in suspension.

Concrete poetry by the definition referred to above is nothing more that visual performance art, which is a far cry from poetry.

In my humble,dated, and somewhat bloated opinion I am just outraged over the concept. It leaves me weak in the knees and concerned over the future of our country as well as all of the literate world currently being formulated.

Gray
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 11:11:36 AM by Gray »

Offline eric

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 03:11:58 PM »
that is what concrete poetry is, Gray.  no use being against the concept.  and Apollinaire is a whole lot older than you are ... in fact, he's dead.   :D

Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2008, 03:22:40 PM »
Hum bug!!! IT IS NOT POETRY !!!

It is just performance art at best.

Offline thatollie

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2008, 03:58:08 PM »
Gray, let me ask you a stupid question.

Do you consider John Yamrus a poet?
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Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2008, 04:03:40 PM »
thatollie:

I don't know why you would think a question is stupid. None that I have ever come across have been stupid and with my big old imagination, I can not conceive of any being stupid. But to answer your question, I would call John Yarmus a poet. I would like for you to keep in mind that the term is used broadly by many individuals and is a noun with subjective qualities.

Why do you ask?

Gray

Offline thatollie

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2008, 04:10:00 PM »
And when Mr Yamrus does a reading, do you think he tries to add to the poem?
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Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2008, 04:15:25 PM »
Yes, I would say he does based on what I have seen of his readings on YouTube.

May I ask why you ask?


Offline thatollie

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2008, 04:50:59 PM »
Would you say that concrete poets are trying to add to their poems by constructing them that way?
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Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2008, 05:27:55 PM »
No, I would not. I think that they are trying to create a stchick for themselves. Poetry are words on a page to be read outloud. Part of poetry is a visual but only in how it relates strictly to the sonics of the words and their meaning, and not so much on how they appear on the page as an form of art.

This so-called "concrete poetry" is nothing more that a visual presentation which can be or may or can not be or is not art in itself. But it is not poetry. It is a visual form the same way a sketch, or picture, or motion picture is a visul form.

How the wrods are arranged on a page should be for the use in the way they are verbalized by the reader. If their arrangement is for any other reason, then it becomes strictly for the visual, which has nothing to do with poetry. Poetry is an art form that should be spoken outloud, not read or seen silently. Or so I believe. Such are its roots in its origin. How can one word or even one syllable be labeled poetry? Is it poetry simply because it is floriated in appearance?

Just my opinion, though.

Offline thatollie

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2008, 05:33:41 PM »
And what do you think of the way HaroHalola constructs his poetry?
Does he not use line breaks and spacing and punctuation and symbols to change the meaning of the words around them.
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Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2008, 05:49:24 PM »
I think HH is an excellent poet. The way he arranges his words (line breaks etc) benefit the way a reader of one of his poems reads his writing outloud. I do not think he uses line breaks, or punctuations, or symbols to change the meaning of his words. I believe he uses words (which are symbols in themselves) as well as symbols to project his meaning or his intent. Of course, I would have to ask him directly to be certain what he means or intends whenever he writes a poem. In the long haul of it, only he would really know.

But that is not concrete poetry as I understand it, thatollie. Concrete poetry from what I understand refers to a so-called genre based strictly on the way the words are placed on the page for the sake of placement only. Like shape poetry. For example, using the word "tree" in multitude to form the shape of a tree on a blank page.

For me, this is not poetry. What JY or HH write and how they write are not examples to which I was making a reference, but then I could be truly confused about the definition and/or example of what "concrete poetry" (as referred to in the original link I posted) is.

Educate me, please, if you think I am off base.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 05:51:08 PM by Gray »

Offline thatollie

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2008, 05:57:24 PM »
The definition is right, but my point was that we all use the methods that we feel will add to our work.
Concrete poets do so because they see it as an addition to the words.
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Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2008, 06:01:58 PM »
True, thatollie. I can not disagree with your statement. I think I'm just becoming an old stuck-in-the-mud.  ;D

Thank you for a refreshing discussion, by the way. I would be curious about what others here thought.

Offline thatollie

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2008, 06:04:54 PM »
Well, let's ask Mr Yamrus.

http://www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=7160.0
x donottryto
o              p
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a  n  i  e m t

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Offline Akeith (Gray)

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2008, 07:32:17 PM »
Your example (of JY's piece) illustrates my point.

The shape of the words on the page adds nothing to the way they are read outloud. They crontribute nothing to the emotional response of the reader. The layout or arrangement of the words merely provide a visual challange for the reader's amusement or chagrin. It is just a visual performance.

In my opinion, of course.