Author Topic: So Barack Obama clinched it...  (Read 36389 times)

Offline bobby digital

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2008, 06:30:58 PM »
Hey Gypo

A couple of things...

Obama an Hilary both have solid and innovative policies, which differ greatly from each other. Obviously they are all founded in the dem school of thought but, they do differ greatly in terms of their policies.

Secondly, the reason why Clinton has praised Obama after berating him is in short, because she is a Democrat and wants to see a Dem take office above all else. And, after such a divisive campaign, she's taking steps to unify the party. Hence the endorsement.

By the way she has praised him all along. Obviously the media highlight the criticism and merely comment on the 'praise' but she has been praising senator Obama during and even before the nomination race.

bobby
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StrayDog

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2008, 08:47:22 PM »
Quote
Some might call this pragmatism, some might dress it up as 'being the best thing for the country', but I can't see it as anything but blatant barefaced political hypocrisy.  It's about as credible as if Winston Churchill had suddenly ordered the RAF to start bombing the UK to help the Germans bring the WW2 to a speedy conclusion.

Did you know that Churchill knew about the Coventry bombing. He decided that if they evacuated, the Germans would know we'd cracked the Enigma.

Offline Gyppo

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2008, 08:50:04 PM »
Did you know that Churchill knew about the Coventry bombing. He decided that if they evacuated, the Germans would know we'd cracked the Enigma.

Yes.  He was a hard man.  A real War Shaman.

Gyppo
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Offline Gyppo

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2008, 08:52:16 PM »
Thanks, Bobby.

That's what happens when someone with only half the story ventures into waters where he rarely goes ;-)

Best wishes,

Gyppo
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Offline Amie

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2008, 03:17:45 AM »
By the way she has praised him all along. Obviously the media highlight the criticism and merely comment on the 'praise' but she has been praising senator Obama during and even before the nomination race.

Mmmm. Perhaps. and perhaps one can lay all the blame at the feet of the American media. But the coverage I saw when I was in Mexico (pretty much constant, every time I turned on the news) was so incredibly negative - every 5 seconds it seemed they were trying to accuse him of being a terrorist or worse. I didn't see the return attacks on Hillary (although I may have just been lucky to miss that part). She could have taken the high (high? well, at least not sunken) road and said, "let's make this about policies rather than making ludicrous accusations about Obama's patriotism or attacks on his wife", but she did not. Anything she says now short of making an apology for those campaign tactics seems a little ...  false and inappropriate.
"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet." - Kafka

Offline bobby digital

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2008, 02:29:03 PM »
The New York Times recently reported that Cindy McCain was advised to/then sold off over $2 million in Saudi/Sudan assets. Most of which are related to oil companies  ::) And others are speculating the amount that John McCain has invested in similar oil companies...

Considering what we know about Bush and his Saudi/Sudan/middle eastern funding. The resulting policies and their effect on the American people/the rest of the world. I find that fact kinda scary.

I'm saving to buy myself an Alfa Romeo 147 GTA (GTA because they look gorgeous in comparison to the regular 147) and It'll be my first car. But if McCain gets in, I don't think I'll bother.

Mine will be black or silver!

 

And I think I might have to donate to the Obama campaign fund to get it!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 02:51:45 PM by bobby digital »
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Offline nightowl

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2008, 08:33:50 PM »
Frankly I seriously doubt that Hillary is seeking the VP nod.  She has a strong foothold in the Senate and if she sticks there she has every chance to become one of the strongest senators in her party and in the Senate. 

There has been talk of Obama appointing her to his cabinet in an important job.  If this is true and if such an appointment should come to pass, she would likely have far more visibility and far more influence than if she got the VP nod, assuming he is elected, and then pretty much fades into the woodwork.  Vice Presidents in this country have been generally known to be totally powerless.  One of them said the most important tasks he was given was attending state funerals.

I also think Obama would be intimidated if she was VP.  It is hard to argue that he is as expierence or knowledgable as she, and Bill would be far too visible for him I'm sure.  Remember too that she got the majority of the popular vote!

There has been some speculation that she might accept a Supreme Court appointment.  Personally, I would like to see this.  We've had a sad turn of events in the US of too much religion in politics which has influenced apointees.  The court is male-heavy as usual, and with Bush's appointees, which have been most likely chosen in the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade, a pro-choice appointee would be welcomed by most of the US population.

Somebody earlier indicated our recession/gas prices, etc. were the fault, or at least were started, back when Bill Clinton was president.  My feeling is that they started long before Clinton's eight years.  I put the beginning back to Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty.  It was a terrific idea but unfortunately has become a deep black unending money-sucking hole.  We have generations of families here now who have little incentive to work and who feel entitled.

As for universal health care, which both Hillary and Obama claim they will give us--good luck!  Again, a terrific idea, but both plans will take money the US does not have and universal health care has to be paid for.  You have to remember that what politicans SAY they will do while they are trying to get elected has little to do with reality.  At least McCain has the good sense not to promise what he cannot deliver when it comes to health care.

Even Obama and Hillary telling us they will get us out of Iraq is little more than a terrific vote-gathering idea.  We are not going to be able to turn our backs and walk away as much as we all would like to see that happen.  There is too much at stake in that part of the world.  And even with the best intentions, how likely is a total withdrawal from Iraq?  Currently the US has half a million military personnel stationed in various countries around the world.  We still have soldiers in Japan, in Germany, in South Korea and a dozen other places.  WWII ended in 1945 so do the math.  We've been in Germany and Japan now for 63 years! 

As for the big mortgage problems over here, my sympathy is limited.  We have become an entire nation of people who plan poorly, if they plan at all, who pull out credit cards when they know they are spending money they do not have, who have bought houses they could not afford to begin with, and who signed variable rate mortgages with their fingers crossed.  We need a wake-up call in the US.  Maybe it is upon us.

As writers, we are all on the same path--some of us taking first steps, others well along on the road.  Those who write because they must are obliged to step over those who abandon their dreams because the way is rocky and steep.

Offline The Orphan

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2008, 09:21:30 PM »
I gotta vote again this November. I say "gotta" because if I don't, I give up my right to bitch about the outcome, and considering the past seven years six months, my right to bitch is about as life affirming as my right to breathe.

And just as it has been every four years for me over the past almost forty, the same ugly thoughts come to me once again.

First off, we might vote for a President, but we end up electing an Administration.  I have a number of issues with Mr. Bush, and they're likely not at all different from the ones many of you have regardless of citizenship. When the arguably most powerful man in the free world farts, we all smell it. In alot of ways, though, I find him likeable enough. Probably would like him as a next-door neighbor. Have him over for barbecues, talk about baseball with him. But that would likely be it.

Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and Gonzalez...  a bunch of the other moral neanderthals he brought along with him? Toss 'em all in Gitmo, melt down the keys. Cheney? Nothing I could say anywhere on the 'net that wouldn't have Homeland Security knocking on my door. I don't trust a single one of those self-serving nimrods any farther than I could spit them...  and they're the ones, the "trusted advisors" and the like who we know about. I can't for a minute believe that there aren't a few big time oil men or defense contractors or Wall Street sodomists who can't hit a single digit on Speed Dial and affect our national policy in one way or another.

All too often, the President is merely the public face of the decisions being made. He's not the thought behind them, he's not the motivations skewing those thoughts, and he's not even the rationale sanitizing those thoughts. He's just a mouthpiece. I don't have too much of a problem with that, actually: I don't anticipate the leader of any powerful nation could be realistically expected to be capable of calling all the shots without relying on the input of others vastly more experienced or educated that he/she on a myriad of complex issues.

I just want to be able to trust the folks who supply that input, and that goes beyond the Vice President who we also vote for.

Look at Cheney. In the past, we kind of expected the VP to show up at State Lunches and Photo-ops whenever the Prez had other pressing business to attend to. For eight years, now, Bush speaks and Cheney's lips move.

Second problem: politicians run for President. Statesmen stay where they often belong: the Senate or the House. Go back and think of some of the real earth shakers we've had: Tip O'Neill, Howard Baker, Pat Moynihan, any number of others who have been most effective for all of us by ostensibly representing their direct constituents. Some people who should be in out government never made it into politics to any great degree. Likely never cared to play the game. So it's a matter of priorities, and when you're going for the Biggest Prize of All, the focus seems to be too centralized: what can I do to keep people less pissed off than the last guy, and how do I assure myself another four years?

Senator Obama is a breath of sanitized air, if not quite fresh. Makes it easier to not have to even remotely consider voting for Senator McCain.

Still not anyone I would pick on my own, but my guys gave up on politics long ago to help our country grow to its fullest potential. They knew where and how they would be most efficient and productive and met the challenge with bi-partisan dedication and a sense of patriotism not defined according to party platforms.

Hope we catch-phrase obsessed, sound-byte suckling Yanks don't let the rest of you down.

P. S.          I'd rather have Billary as VP then as Secretary of State, Attorney General or Supreme Court Justice, and I can't help but get the feeling that bowing out so graciously has Obama at least slightly indebted to the Clintons.
"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."     Bob Seger, "Against the Wind"

Offline nightowl

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2008, 10:04:47 AM »
Let's cut to the chase . . .

> The Irish are such clear thinkers:
>
> "We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you are
> even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

> On one side, you have a witch who is a lawyer, married to a
> lawyer, running against a lawyer who is married to a witch
> who is a lawyer.

  On the other side, you have a war hero
> married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer
> distributorship.

What are you lads thinking over
> there?"
>
As writers, we are all on the same path--some of us taking first steps, others well along on the road.  Those who write because they must are obliged to step over those who abandon their dreams because the way is rocky and steep.

Offline bobby digital

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2008, 02:27:38 PM »
Let's cut to the chase . . .

> The Irish are such clear thinkers:
>
> "We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you are
> even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

> On one side, you have a witch who is a lawyer, married to a
> lawyer, running against a lawyer who is married to a witch
> who is a lawyer.

  On the other side, you have a war hero
> married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer
> distributorship.

What are you lads thinking over
> there?"
>


O-k-e-y - D-o-k-e-y  ::)
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StrayDog

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2008, 02:28:33 PM »
I agree with nightowl.

Offline bobby digital

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2008, 03:16:11 PM »
I have a question for our American members...

What's the deal with fox news???

I've seen a few fox news clips on youtube and to me, 99% of there coverage is degrading and laced with negative connations. For instance, they referred to Michelle Obama as "Obama's baby momma" and joked live on air that someone should "knock off Obama." Yet they refuse to say anything negative about McCain.

Are they funded by the Republican party? Because I'm not sure how they get away with it... While I'm aware of the constitutional right to "freedom of speech" Fox seems on the verge of sending out a daily state sponsored message/view/commentary...

And oddly enough, continuous state sponsored messages/spin is something I (we all) have come to expect from countries and states ruled by dictators/regimes...

Not in the "land of the free!"

Slightly confused  ::)

bobby
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Offline nightowl

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2008, 03:31:07 PM »
Fox does not have a good reputation over here.  It's kind of the tabloid station like those sleazy rags they sell near the checkout counters in the grocery stores--you know, the ones that say some woman had a baby fathered by an alien or the like?  But evidently they do have a sizable following.  And evidently they have sharp lawyers and know where the line is and how not to be sued. 

On the other hand, it has seemed to me that NBC, CBS and ABC are enamored with Obama and practically lick his boots.  In the end it probably doesn't matter.  When Tim Russert died the other day my husband was working in the garage and Russert's death shocked me.  I had a lot of respect for the man and I thought he was fair in his reporting and questioning of politicians.  My young neighbor was standing in our garage with her two toddlers who always make a beeline for my husband when they see him outside.  I delivered the sad news and learned that the neighbor, a college graduate, had no clue as to who Tim Russert was. 

I notice too that when we go out to pick up our newspaper each morning that almost nobody takes the daily paper.  I don't know, of course, but I would imagine they don't read Newsweek, Time or World Report either. 

But they are going to vote and most of the young will probably be voting for Obama because he has a nifty slogan:  Change!

Was it always this way?  I don't remember a time even when I first was old enough to vote that I wasn't interested in who was running and what they stood for.  Of course, back then, some of them actually stood for something.
As writers, we are all on the same path--some of us taking first steps, others well along on the road.  Those who write because they must are obliged to step over those who abandon their dreams because the way is rocky and steep.

Offline The Orphan

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2008, 02:42:04 AM »
Let's cut to the chase . . .

> The Irish are such clear thinkers:
>
> "We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you are
> even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

> On one side, you have a witch who is a lawyer, married to a
> lawyer, running against a lawyer who is married to a witch
> who is a lawyer.

  On the other side, you have a war hero
> married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer
> distributorship.

What are you lads thinking over
> there?"
>


What makes you think most of us arethinking?
It's fairly well split down the middle these days:
Half of us have Faux News doing our thinking for us, the other half turns the responsibility over to Oprah.

And don't, on your very life and the lives of those who follow, ever acknowledge that something the other guy said might make sense. You're free to disagree with him, of course, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make sense.

It's all about The Parties, not about the nation. You'll rarely see a border drawn quite as decisively as the Liberal / Conservative, Democrat / Republican, Left / Right line dividing us, except for maybe the one between Heaven and Hell.

People register as Republicans to prove they're not Democrats, and others slap Obama stickers on their cars so nobody will mistake them for Republicans. Only half of us are expected to be patriotic - or is "allowed" the word I'm looking for?

The fact that the price of a barrel of oil has quadrupled since Bush took over is far out-weighed by the Blow Job That Won't Go Away, while at the same time serving as justification for totally ignoring the fact that Hillary is just as much as a sleazy cut-throat as Bill ever was.

You call that "thinking"?

If we were "thinking", we would have spent at least the past four years trying to come up with better choices than the ones we got stuck with.

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."     Bob Seger, "Against the Wind"

Offline nightowl

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Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2008, 09:55:08 AM »
The trouble didn't start four years or eight years ago or even back in the Bill Clinton days.  When it comes to electing a president or a senator or anybody running for a high office these days, MONEY is the name of the game.  When Oprah came out in support of Obama I figured right then he would be elected.  If she can't acutally buy it for him, she will stump for him and she has such a huge following of sheeple that I figure her help alone will get him there.

(By the way, I read that Oprah's numbers are falling.  Ah, such a shame.) (And by the way a second time, the Irish thing was nothing but I joke I thought so cute that I passed it along--I didn't write it.)

As an Independent, I have not had a candidate to choose from in so long that memory fails.  I continue to hope for another candidate with the values of Harry Truman who paid his own train fare home after he left the White House and refused to take money afterwards for speaking engagements saying, "You don't want me, you want the presidency and the presidency isn't for sale."

But even if another Truman came along I don't think it would make much difference.  The entire system is, if not broken, is very badly mangled. 

Take a look at this guy, "Joe American".  He's telling it like it is and I think he speaks for most of us out here who do THINK, READ and are INFORMED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPch2k63uj4
As writers, we are all on the same path--some of us taking first steps, others well along on the road.  Those who write because they must are obliged to step over those who abandon their dreams because the way is rocky and steep.