Author Topic: X2 Manifesto  (Read 14284 times)

midnightcandle

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2008, 05:14:59 AM »
I like a ballsy lady ;D

Offline Conanthedoylarian

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2008, 07:15:30 AM »
The reason X2 MANIFESTO is attracting funding is because of this; it's about nurturing the best, not keeping the mediocre in cigarettes and beer!

Finally, the aim of X2 MANIFESTO is to offer a stage for the best new writing talent to deliver their work to the publishing sector. In all honesty, if writers prefer to scratch around getting sporadic payments for occasional insertions, then they might find the ambition and drive demanded from contributors a little too rich for their blood.

As I've said before, this sounds like an exciting project and I hope it succeeds in its goals.

It's of little relevance to me as I'm
  • 1. Not the best, not even close
  • 2. Certainly not new.
  • 3. Already published despite 1. above
  • 4. Unsurprisingly, given my screen name, prefer pipes to cigarettes, and therefore need more cash up front than this project appears to be offering.
  • 5. Drink only premium quality beer - hence the focus on cash.

Seriously though, I just thought that pressing the point about payment would give potential contributors more information about what they were investing their time and effort in, and would help them to make up their minds.

Suzie's thoughts, as someone with a lot of experience in the business, bear a lot of weight.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 07:20:27 AM by Conanthedoylarian »

Offline Gyppo

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2008, 08:04:13 AM »
I tend to treat all such offers as I would beta software.  That is, I let others take the risks and iron out the inevitable 'teething problems'.  Selfish?  Maybe.  Pragmatic?  Definitely.

If a scheme, product, magazine, etc, is any good then it can survive without me.  If it survives then I may come and have another look.

I have no doubt there are some wonderfully innovative schemes out there, started by starry-eyed idealists who have no intention of ripping off or misleading would be contributors.  Just as there are hundreds of 'small presses' which limp along from issue to issue, barely breaking even, funded by subscriptions.  I'm rather fond of these little 'against the odds' magazines.

But overall I'm inclined to 'wait and see' when it comes to 'new and innovative'.  Because of this I've probably missed a few 'golden opportunities', but I'm sure I've missed many more severe duckings in the sea of chance.

Gyppo
My website is currently having a holiday, but will return like the $6,000,000 man.  Bigger, stronger, etc.

In the meantime, why not take pity on a starving author and visit my book sales page at http://stores.lulu.com/gyppo1

Offline X2 MANIFESTO

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2008, 08:52:34 AM »
Suzie, I understand your concern and wouldn’t dream of labelling you a bitter wannabe. I would like to address this point, however:

Quote
The best writers expect to be well paid, or at the very least given an idea of what they could expect to earn if they submit.

Those who submit to us can expect to earn exposure in the publishing industry. We feel that this is by far the most important aspect of X2 MANIFESTO, but that is not to say we will not be a paying market. We simply do not want to release any details that are not finalised, for reasons stated earlier. ‘Prehistoric’ or not, this is how we will be conducting ourselves. And, as I mentioned in my previous post, if any writer dislikes our terms, they are perfectly within their rights to withdraw their submission. We are not out to deceive.

Conan, thank you. I appreciate your intentions. Gyppo, here’s hoping you come back to take a look soon enough.

I believe that all that needs to be said about X2 MANIFESTO has already been said, but I would also like to add the final point that many amazing writers have spent their days in great supply of cigarettes and beer.

SuzieHarris

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2008, 08:56:07 AM »
MANIFESTO

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is an open forum for writers to discuss, chat, throw things at and generally disagree with each other.

I wish you luck with your venture and hope that we have many more battles in the future, after all you don't get to be a 'ballsy lady' by keeping silent! Besides, I'm NO lady, I prefer to make myself heard - loudly lol

Suzie
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 08:58:31 AM by Suzie »

Offline eric

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2008, 01:14:05 PM »
Here's to you, Suzie.  Good to see you again.  Thanks for a couple of fine and insightful replies.  The X2 diatribe you responded to was churlish, abusive, and dissembling.  By the time the writer gets the take-it-or-leave it terms, the work has already been done and he or she is up against a hard place.  No one's "free" in those circumstances.  I hope new writers take the time to read your words before being drawn in to that house of cards. 

By the way, can I bum a smoke?  I need something to go with this case of cheap and lousy beer.  Hell, I may even need to sell another mediocre poem half price to support my habits.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 01:26:29 PM by eric »

Offline rewh2oman

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2008, 01:55:43 PM »
Here's to you, Suzie.  Good to see you again. 

Ditto

Offline Caffers

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2008, 02:09:19 PM »
The X2 diatribe you responded to was churlish, abusive, and dissembling.

I thought is was funny. Am I alone it that? After all, you didn't give the guy the best of welcomes, but he certainly knows how to flick your switches. Good luck to him!

It actually looks like an interesting idea. I've emailed them for more info (although as someone published and not at the "cutting edge" I'm probably ruled out). I'll be interested what sort of a response I get.

Offline eric

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2008, 03:37:24 PM »
Well, Caffers, I think that language was not in the least funny--it was abusive, and I've seen other publishers bash writers that way in my 35 years in the field.  Go ahead and do whatever you want with them, be my guest, but beware.

Offline eric

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2008, 12:43:04 AM »
dom

Thanks for talking your usual sense.  This is worse than I thought.

As far as I can tell, the whole secret of this X2 is that he or they attract(s) cutting edge writers with new thinking exclusively. High-toned stuff.  Is it true that the way you get to be  cutting edge and high toned is to sign up with X2?  As far as I can tell.  Average types like you and me, who insist on questioning the idea because we're so mediocre, can go stuff it.  How X2 will bundle up these new thoughts by new writers in typescript, glossy, dank, or who knows what formats paid for by unnamed corporate sponsors who do not  yet exist and may never, I don't know.  But I assume he or they will slop these things on publishers' floors with burning bushes, like the one which talked to Moses. 

As everyone knows, a well-kept secret it is not that new writers with cutting-edge thoughts are way more successful than established writers and ones with agents.  Presumably, that is what the bushes will say.  The publishers will listen to the bushes so that the bushes do not burn holes in their floors.  This is something like date rape.

I really have no clue as to why the big corporate sponsors have not come forward yet.  Maybe it has something to do with the odds.  If there is about a 1% chance (or less) for new writers to be published, there is a 99% chance (or more) that money spent promoting the cutting edge works of new authors with new ideas won't pay off.  And won't wasting their time with the 99% that will end up in the slush pile anyway keep those publishers from finding the few good manuscripts that actually might turn a thousand dollar profit?  Without an agent to run the X2 process, and with the harm that rebundling the manuscripts will do, those percentages will not improve. Last I knew, corporations are in business to make money.  Waiting for another JK Rowling is a pipe dream, and businessmen deal in reality.  So where will the money come from?  Remember the basic rule, all you cutting-edge types with new ideas that think this system makes sense--never pay to have your piece published.   

There are exceptions.  I wrote a piece about my old neighborhood back in the day that was published in a vanity press and then picked up by a Hollywood studio which turned it into Gone With the Wind.  But of course I'm lying.

All this confuses me, because I'm just as stupider than you is.  I give up.  Can I bum a smoke, stale beer, and some of them used condoms?  Plus a file to file down my pointy head and achy, breaky heart?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 12:50:09 AM by eric »

Offline Scope

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2008, 09:27:10 PM »
I've submitted.

The reasoning was, as long as I'm unpublished, and still somehow managing to not care about money in the least, this can't be a bad thing. A story is only worth something in a tangible sense when someone else thinks it is, and in any other case it just might be important to the writer alone. Since dispatching a simple e-mail does not detatch me from that warm fuzzy feeling, since my appriciation of my work is internal and in no significant way affected by The Outer World, I incurr no loss whatsoever by doing so.

Since most of you aged and experienced writers in this thread seem to feel so immensely trod-upon and provoked by this endeavour, a project that quite blatantly (for anyone with half a brain) offers NO MONEY to submitters, I would conclude that you have set your standards pretty high.

I mean, they are offering, for FREE, to READ the stuff you send them. That is more than any publisher does, and more than I ever get offered.

I imagine you guys, screaming, taking it personally when a shampoo commercial promises you more "personality", or when George Bush up on the TV screen adresses you as if you were the moron.
This injustice, so to speak, is not supposed to fuel forum rants, people. It's supposed to inspire actual writing.
"I'm an artist, please don't laugh at me."

SuzieHarris

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2008, 02:30:28 AM »
Scope,

I wish you well with your submission. I really do. Now let me answer some of your digs at us aged and experienced writers.

Quote
Since most of you aged and experienced writers in this thread seem to feel so immensely trod-upon and provoked by this endeavour, a project that quite blatantly (for anyone with half a brain) offers NO MONEY to submitters, I would conclude that you have set your standards pretty high.

Well, that comment could only have come from a young person with no 'published work' portfolio. I am neither aging or provoked by X2, what I am is EXPERIENCED (so you got that bit right at least). As for my standards, yes, they are high. If I didn't set them high they would always have just been mediocre, I'm better than that and my publishing history speaks for itself. You won't ever reach the stars unless you reach for them.

Quote
I mean, they are offering, for FREE, to READ the stuff you send them. That is more than any publisher does, and more than I ever get offered.

Then I conclude that you are submitting to the wrong places. Most traditional publisher DO NOT charge a reading fee. It's the ones that charge that you avoid.

Quote
I imagine you guys, screaming, taking it personally when a shampoo commercial promises you more "personality", or when George Bush up on the TV screen adresses you as if you were the moron.

Now that is just plain stupid. You have now gone to the extreme. I salute you, most would not make such an idiotic comment. You do indeed have talent - for the ridiculous. I for one don't need any more personality, I have enough, thank you.

Quote
This injustice, so to speak, is not supposed to fuel forum rants, people. It's supposed to inspire actual writing.

The only injustice here is the one you have done to yourself by submitting. Like all writers, you deserve to be paid for your work, not sit back while someone else is paid for YOUR work. Well done.

As for inspiring actual writing, I support that wholeheartedly. We are all members here for just that, to inspire each other. However, when the aged and experienced writers here smell a rat we try to warn the inexperienced to beware. You are the one that shouted at the screen like a moron and decided to attack us for sharing our thoughts.

And we shall say NOTHING about your inability to spell correctly.


Suzie

« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 02:34:14 AM by Suzie »

Offline Caffers

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2008, 04:45:06 AM »
Well, rather than join in with negative and pessimistic rants that were generated here once the OP stood up to the initial barbs, I did something fairly revolutionary for someone working in writing; I did some basic research. I also contacted the people behind it, and guess what? They happily talked to me. In fact, it turns out we have a mutual friend in publishing, which allowed me to find out a little bit about their background On the UK side only).

If I was more interested in creative/contemporary fiction writing than the jobbing side of journalism, I'd be with them in a flash. That's what they're targeting. They're not interested in anything else for this project. In fact, they don't want interest from the freelance/non-fiction sector, a point made very clear on the web site. I don't understand why everyone here's so negative. It doesn't really affect those complaining. Maybe you are just bitter? I can't see any other explanation. I don't whinge because I can't join the ladies football team.

Anyhow, for those that this is right for, it is well researched and should definitely do a large percentage of what it sets out to do. There is another level as yet undisclosed that is going to push this into the media limelight. I said I'd not reveal it, so I won't, because I actually like what they're doing and the fellow I spoke to (Pete) seemed genuinely friendly. He wouldn't discuss money, and wouldn't discuss sponsorship, and said any general information out there was to whet writer's appetites.

He seemed genuinely willing to accept that some wanted more information up front, and his response was along the lines of, "If people want to get involved early, they can do. If they would rather wait to see the terms and conditions written in stone, they can do that too. No one should submit unless they're happy. They can wait; I'd rather they did than be worried about it. However, some people want to get involved now, and again that's their choice." Please note: That isn't a quote, more a paraphrased comment!

Interestingly, he insisted that there would be payment, but said that the typical contributor would be more interested in the final goal than payment; I have to agree. It's almost a filter. He explained the structure of payments, and it is one of the USPs, so again if you want to know more, do what I did and ask!

A major media release is scheduled in a short time, and I for one will be interested in seeing how the negative comments of the few who have so far piped up develop from there. I am slightly shocked – as a newcomer here, I only joined to run a few poems past people for criticism – to see a few people simply attack an idea that's different because they didn't understand it. Let the X2 people have their head; if they fail, then debate it. It's better than coming across as luddites!

As for Eric's comments about "abusive language"; as I said when I first posted about this, I respect the OP for standing up to the barbs. If you found it abusive, you must have applied it to yourself, because the OP didn't. If anything, you've made defamatory remarks about something you haven't even researched. That's not the sign of a good writer, is it?


« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 09:11:40 AM by Caffers »

Offline Scope

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2008, 06:06:43 PM »
Scope,

I wish you well with your submission. I really do. Now let me answer some of your digs at us aged and experienced writers.

Well, that comment could only have come from a young person with no 'published work' portfolio. I am neither aging or provoked by X2, what I am is EXPERIENCED (so you got that bit right at least). As for my standards, yes, they are high. If I didn't set them high they would always have just been mediocre, I'm better than that and my publishing history speaks for itself. You won't ever reach the stars unless you reach for them.

Then I conclude that you are submitting to the wrong places. Most traditional publisher DO NOT charge a reading fee. It's the ones that charge that you avoid.

Now that is just plain stupid. You have now gone to the extreme. I salute you, most would not make such an idiotic comment. You do indeed have talent - for the ridiculous. I for one don't need any more personality, I have enough, thank you.

The only injustice here is the one you have done to yourself by submitting. Like all writers, you deserve to be paid for your work, not sit back while someone else is paid for YOUR work. Well done.

As for inspiring actual writing, I support that wholeheartedly. We are all members here for just that, to inspire each other. However, when the aged and experienced writers here smell a rat we try to warn the inexperienced to beware. You are the one that shouted at the screen like a moron and decided to attack us for sharing our thoughts.

And we shall say NOTHING about your inability to spell correctly.


Suzie




Ah, it would seem that I did not make myself entirely clear. My post was not meant to be nearly as mean-spirited as you would make it out to be. I merely wished to comment upon, after reading several rants in several threads regarding similar topics, that most of the "hero members" on this forum seem a little too wrapped up in the business side of writing. I can understand this, you all have to pay the bills and so forth, but it is not, in my opinion, what writing is really about. In fact, I would from my uninitiated perspective, go so far as saying that it probably hurts it. But that's me, and maybe you're fine with it. Maybe one should be. 

What I meant with the bit about the Bush, I will try to clarify. I saw a shampoo commercial the other day, saying something ridiculous along the lines of, "less dandruff, more personality". As far as I could tell, this claim had no basis in reality, only some very forced and vague connection to the fact that there were several different "flavours" of the product. The thing that made me react at all was that this was, in fact, an ad for my shampoo. The one I use. Of course this shampoo has never given me any extra personality, and while I wasn't insulted by the marketing campaign's claim to be able to provide this, it left me feeling somewhat depressed.

The admittedly ridiculous (it was meant to be humorous, you know) comparison was that the apparent indignation some of you seemed to be feeling, and perhaps you Suzie in particular, was like actually being insulted by this stupid ad. I never said you lacked personality, and I can't quite figure out how you managed to get that idea. My point was merely this; X2 are not blowing stuff up and stealing babies.
 
Now I am however somewhat put off by you saying that I need to want to get paid for writing. Trying to squeeze money out of something, anything, always requires magnificent ammounts of time and effort, in addition to performing that thing itself. That is time and effort best spent on more writing, while I can still live off on student loans. The whole topic of submission comes as an afterthought to me and that, I feel, is as it should be. I even dislike the word, submission. But in this case, it was very easily managed, I just had to read half a page, copy+paste an email adress and click send. The discussion about why I shouldn't do this, however, stretched for miles and utterly failed to convince me. I have not, as you say, done myself an injustice.

I have never paid a reading fee and nor would I.

As for my two spelling/grammatical errors, I think I'm in the clear. I am twenty years old, english is my second language, and I wrote it at four in the morning. But I guess that's not saying NOTHING.

I'd like to repeat that this was not meant as an attack, as such. And you are all very knowledgable, as far as I can tell. Nothing you said appeared to be wrong in any way, I just thought there to be an excessive ammount of fuss, really. But perhaps I overinterpreted your posts, maybe you weren't going ape shit over this.
 
In any case: peace pipe extended.
"I'm an artist, please don't laugh at me."

Offline Donnettetxgirl

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Re: X2 MANIFESTO
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2008, 06:33:56 PM »
Suzie, you go girl!

Eric, I don't know who you are, but I like you. And I'll gladly pass you a smoke. Marlboro okay? You pretty much laid out in your responses everything that was going through my head reading this post.

Writers can't be too careful. This post is a perfect example. WE ARE A NEW PUBLISHING COMPANY Y'ALL. C'MON OVER & SUBMIT. IF WE LIKE YOUR STUFF WE'LL TAKE IT (emphasis on the word TAKE).

Excuse me for saying, but this here is a usual song & dance. Seen it too many times. Publishing companies like this visiting writers forums, hoping to see how many fresh victims they can round up. Sorry if I just came right out & said it. But, if the train is black, I call it black, and I can see this train coming a mile away.

Anyone thinking of submitting to these guys, please do yourself a favor & don't. You don't need the kind of disappointment & heartache that will most likely be attached.

Donnette Smith
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