My Writers Circle

Poets Corner => Review My Poetry => Topic started by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 02:43:00 PM

Title: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 02:43:00 PM
He Won’t Reverse the Decision

Court-ordered rather than elected,
his impotence, once he accepted it,
gave him more power than when
he regularly wenched and laid
one night stands in his bachelor pad
an addict, a monster who used rohypnol
which kept the act consensual
or difficult to prove otherwise.

Enforced celibacy flipped the focus
on to her pleasure – he had not lost
his sense of touch,
nor his desire to please
and the sacrifice of  not spilling seed
seemed little price to pay
for heightened awareness, caresses,
kisses, visual and aural feasts,
tongue licks and fingertip treats
freely given when phallic penetration
was taken off the agenda.

His bedpost boasts more notches
for satisfied partners, now
he puts their orgasm first
and climaxes intellectually,
with far less mess and no need
for tissues or bathroom privacy
for moments of masturbation.
Chemical castration saved him
from selfishness and though
his libido lowered, his sensitivity increased
making this man a lover, not a beast.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: indar on January 04, 2014, 02:54:21 PM
Really?

I can't believe I'm reading this just as I am getting ready to leave the house--I have so many questions.

Sio, is it possible you are living in a dream world?
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 02:58:24 PM
Aha! So you think men are so selfish they couldn't appreciate their other senses just for the sake of them . . . or are all our senses related to our libidos? How then do we appreciate art? Food? Music? Does the response have to stir a climax? ;D ::) ;D ::) ;D :o

Does male power only exist in a spurt of semen and a stiff cock? ::) Will they only give if they can get?

Glad you thought it raised some questions, Linda. ;D ;D ;D ;D >:D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Tom 10 on January 04, 2014, 02:59:14 PM
Unusual subject matter, I googled and got up to speed.  Sounds like punishment /(putative) rehabilitation for the subject.  The poem is a pretty complete description of the result.  Perhaps not exactly what its proponents envisioned.  There are some nice turns of phrase, but to my ear, a little heavy on the telling-type description.
Still, nice writing.
 :)
T
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 03:07:58 PM
Thanks, Tom you're correct, it is supposed to be punishment . . . yet, freed of his urges and relinquishing his sexual desires this apparently 'impotent' man turns out to be more (sexually) powerful than when he was poking around all over the place [a sign of true potency in some cultures] ::) :o

Not sure if the tell removal would adequately convey the intention of the poem. Just wanted to rattle a cage. :D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Tom 10 on January 04, 2014, 03:11:08 PM
I think you're doing that and its a controversial thesis you suggest.  Intriguing and personal.
 :)
T
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: indar on January 04, 2014, 03:11:34 PM
Would a person willing to use rohypnol to get what he wants suddenly turn into a caring, sensitive person just because one aspect of his physicality has been put out of action? Is there some evidence this really happens? I don't mean to indict men I mean there is probably some pathological selfishness underlying the ability to use those means and both men and women are capable of such selfishness---played out differently perhaps by the two genders but .....perhaps I'm wrong.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 03:13:17 PM
 ;D Maybe he learned the hard way [no pun intended] ::)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: indar on January 04, 2014, 03:15:53 PM
Quote
no pun intended

Yeah--right
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 03:17:27 PM
 ;D ;D ;D

Certainly this is a piece of fiction  -- but hey, why can't horror stories have fairytale endings? ::)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: indar on January 04, 2014, 03:21:16 PM
rohypnol vs. chemical castration---an epic battle with a fairytale ending ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: indar on January 04, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
One more thought before i get going---

I wonder how this would come out if you wrote it from the POV of the predator. Would he undergo a complete change of heart or would he find another way to exert power over a sexual partner using his newfound "sensitivity" to her needs but in a way that is still calculating.

Do I sound as if I'm a bit of a cynic re: human motivations?
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 03:34:08 PM
 :D Chemical castration reduces libido, sexual desire, BUT the question inherently posed within the poem is does all desire diminish once sex is out of the equation? Could you not still enjoy the senses outside a sexual context? If not, what happens when you eat, listen to music, look at or touch works of art . . . does it all go? Are we fundamentally driven by our sexual desire for everything from which we draw pleasure? Agreed it is a basic instinct, but what then of the others? Blame Freud.  ;D

Do [voluntarily] celibate individuals have a less satisfying life because they choose not to have sex? ::) Are they missing out on sense stimulation?

I don't think I want to get into the head of the predator -- too much of a mind shift for this female. :D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: indar on January 04, 2014, 03:38:10 PM
Now you are really raising some big big questions--you could even ask at what point is libido truly lost. I will be watching this discussion from my laptop---interested to hear what others have to say. Really Sio this is a much bigger issue than i first realised---nice.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 03:43:58 PM
Heh, heh, heh >:D >:D >:D  ;D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark H on January 04, 2014, 04:35:04 PM
Interesting, but lacking verisimilitude.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 04:55:54 PM
Thanks, Mark -- true, rather 'fantastical', difficult to project but I hoped it would raise some questions for the reader beyond the words used for  this 'story'. ;)

Maybe I could get a free pass based on fact being sometimes stranger than fiction? ::) :D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: jkaram on January 04, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
I'm a sucker for a good story, and all techie things aside this is that.  :) I like the risks you take here with your imagination and I think you've landed on some true stuff.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 05:18:27 PM
 :D Cheers, Janet.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: bri h on January 04, 2014, 05:23:58 PM
Can't comment just now. I'm off to the bathroom to do some 'research.' (for once I'm going to use an in context) heh heh. B
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 05:30:42 PM
 :-X :D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Chizzy on January 04, 2014, 06:04:07 PM
Works for me. The poem, that is. Unexpected subject matter but oddly refreshing. Good stuff.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 04, 2014, 06:07:46 PM
Thank, Chizzy, just exploring possibilities regarding labels worn by folk, what is important to them and whether people can change - and importantly if others would accept the new version.


Next stop Katois and why they choose the lifestyle they do. :o
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: drab on January 04, 2014, 10:54:52 PM
Interesting read 5. Is there any evidence to suggest that men act this way in this situation?
You might have heard the 'story' of a well known rock star walking naked towards a young girl in bed, when she sees the size of (or lack of) his manhood she says 'who do you think you're going to please with THAT'
And he replies 'Me'
But seriously.
It's quite a disturbing thought that the State would expose any woman to be 'approached' by a sex offender, regardless of whether or not she gets pleasure from the experience. I'd assume that they'd be traumatised to retrospectively discover this fact.

Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: shadowdrifter on January 05, 2014, 03:32:18 AM
Hi 510bhan

Fascinating premise and though I'm not convinced that he would change this way it makes for raising interesting questions.

A few thoughts, use or leave as you wish.

Quote
He Won’t Reverse the Decision

Court-ordered rather than elected,
his impotence, once he accepted it,  <<--I would maybe start a new line to give a pause between each idea and change to "Once accepted, it gave him more power...."
gave him more power than when
he regularly wenched and laid  <<---do you need wenched?  It's said in "laid" and one night stands.
one night stands in his bachelor pad
an addict, a monster who used rohypnol  <<--I would take out "a monster" feels too much like a judgement.  Maybe "an addict who used rohypnol to keep the act consensual"
which kept the act consensual
or difficult to prove otherwise.

Enforced celibacy flipped the focus
on to her pleasure – he had not lost
his sense of touch,
nor his desire to please
and the sacrifice of  not spilling seed
seemed little price to pay
for heightened awareness, caresses,
kisses, visual and aural feasts,
tongue licks and fingertip treats
freely given when phallic penetration
was taken off the agenda.  <<-- I wonder if you need "when phallic penetration ws taken off the agenda" as you've already said similar in "not spilling seed"

His bedpost boasts more notches
for satisfied partners, now
he puts their orgasm first  <<--first isn't quite right as their orgasm is the only thing he focuses on.
and climaxes intellectually,
with far less mess and no need
for tissues or bathroom privacy
for moments of masturbation.
Chemical castration saved him
from selfishness and though
his libido lowered, his sensitivity increased
making this man a lover, not a beast. <<--this is too much tell.  I'd stop after "chemical castration saved him."
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 05, 2014, 02:36:23 PM
@drab Thanks for engaging in the discussion. Is he a sex offender? An addict, a git that uses rohypnol . . . damn there must  be a big bunch of non-convicted bastards out there we ought to label as sex offenders.

Regardless, it appears having has his 'manhood/libido' taken from him he no longer has to prove himself in the manner he did before and with that freedom has ironically gained more power over women because of his selflessness. Why would the women discover what he used to be unless he confessed to them?

@shadowdrifter -- good ideas for S1, but I'd need to take a close look to see if they interfere with the rhythm should I adopt the changes.

Not spilling seed can be a voluntary decision on the part of non-chemically castrated men . . . not often, but possible . . . so I think I need the mention of penetration also.

Although the last few lines are *tell* I think they are what activates the insult/outrage/questions asked by the reader, so I'm not sure if they should go.

Thanks for reading folks, and your comments. :)

Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: drab on January 05, 2014, 09:26:00 PM
 'Is he a sex offender? An addict, a git that uses rohypnol'

I think we all know the answer to that question!
And 'sex offender' is an offensive term IMO. It lessens the crime. You 'offend' someone by farting/swearing. If someone used a chemical to rape my daughter I/she would be more than offended.
They could be tattooed to tell any woman what they are. A big one across their stomach/chest saying RAPIST, and make them show that it hasn't been tattooed over by regular visits to the police.
 
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 05, 2014, 09:40:04 PM
I didn't introduce the term 'sex offender' it was your words in the reply. I agree it lessens the crime of rape but is alcohol, or a lie, cocaine or cannabis any less pleasant a way for a woman to be conned and bedded? Grey areas.

I'm not defending any 'moral stance' or condoning anything here, simply provoking questions and attitudes. :-X

Didn't mean to cause any personal offence or outrage.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark T on January 06, 2014, 04:30:56 PM

It's acknowledged that androgen and testosterone play a larger health role for the body than just that related to sexual function. What I want to know is, did he first read a lesbian love manual?
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: drab on January 06, 2014, 04:50:35 PM
I didn't introduce the term 'sex offender' it was your words in the reply. I agree it lessens the crime of rape but is alcohol, or a lie, cocaine or cannabis any less pleasant a way for a woman to be conned and bedded? Grey areas.

I'm not defending any 'moral stance' or condoning anything here, simply provoking questions and attitudes. :-X

Didn't mean to cause any personal offence or outrage.

I know you didn't say 'sex offender' and you didn't cause any offence.  :)
But there's a big difference between using Rohypnol and drink/cocaine.
Regards
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark H on January 06, 2014, 04:55:45 PM
...
But there's a big difference between using Rohypnol and drink/cocaine.
Regards

If you woke up with a sore bottom, you'd care which type of drug you'd been given?
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: drab on January 06, 2014, 05:56:11 PM
If you don't appreciate the difference....
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark H on January 06, 2014, 06:02:41 PM
It feels like you are implying that someone who is extremely drunk has contributed to his/her own demise? Or do you think that plying someone with booze is less wrong (even though the intent may be the same) than administering a drug?

For me, the method does not matter, the intend does.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 06, 2014, 06:22:53 PM
 . . . and of course convicted rapists are freed after they've served their time and often reoffend.

This was deliberately meant to challenge fundamental issues so folk could explore avenues of thought they perhaps might not have considered before. Each of us has our own set of values and we do make judgements . . .

Mark -- I think you've nailed the point. ;)

It feels like you are implying that someone who is extremely drunk has contributed to his/her own demise? Or do you think that plying someone with booze is less wrong (even though the intent may be the same) than administering a drug?

For me, the method does not matter, the intend does.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: drab on January 06, 2014, 06:58:36 PM
The point I'm making is simply that using a strong drug to rape is a crime.
It takes time to get drunk and the woman (unless she's stupid) has time to say no/leave or whatever. Most women know that they are more likely to have sex when drunk, they can see what's happening. Slipping a drug into her drink....
So yes Mark, I'm absolutely saying that giving someone (adult) drink is less wrong than giving them Rohypnol. A woman can choose not to drink to excess, she has no choice if one drink is spiked.
 
5,
 'but is alcohol, or a lie, cocaine or cannabis any less pleasant a way for a woman to be conned and bedded? Grey areas.'
I would have thought Rohypnol is a less pleasant way, for the above reasons. Being a man, I can only assume.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 06, 2014, 07:23:48 PM
I really don't know what the reaction would be -- guess it's like whether rape by a stranger is worse than rape by someone you know. :-[
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark T on January 07, 2014, 12:47:11 AM
Going back to the poem, I think its actually a positive take on a scenario - so the MC has committed some kind of sexual predator offence, got caught and punished/treated and is now just a swinger of a different sort, ha.
The positive is that instead becoming frustrated and I dunno, turning to lighting matches and beheading chickens or something, he finds a new methodology and becomes an unselfish lover to express his diminished sexuality which has various practical benefits. If the chemical castration isn't permanent, some those women will doubtless return for the cherry on top. All seems a bit unlikely but certainly possible.    
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark H on January 07, 2014, 02:45:29 AM
The point I'm making is simply that using a strong drug to rape is a crime.

I understand what you are saying, but it is the rape that is the crime irrespective of the method used. Interestingly, in the UK (I am aware you are Irish) aggravating factors affect sentencing and in this context the law bundles the use of drugs or alcohol (as facilitators) together. So in the UK at least your moral point of view is contrary to the legal position.

M

Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: heidi52 on January 07, 2014, 10:48:22 AM
giving someone (adult) drink is less wrong than giving them Rohypnol. A woman can choose not to drink to excess, she has no choice if one drink is spiked.
 
Totally agree with drab here. I'm not blaming the victims but as a woman you have to be aware that if you get intoxicated to the point of passing out, there are men out there who will take advantage and abuse you. At some point in your drinking  before you get to the stage of passing out you are aware you have had enough. Continuing to drink at that point is a stupid mistake, but at least you have a choice.

A woman who is given a drink spiked with Rohypnol has no choice. That's the difference. They are both rape though.

It's like the difference between using a gun or not when robbing someone. The end result is the same, you robbed them, but the law sees the gun as aggravating.

And personally I think castration is an excellent idea for convicted sex offenders, but the old fashioned way would be better.  >:D 

Back to the poem,  I find it a little hard to believe your MC would actually make that kind of character 180. I get the whole power substitution, but it just doesn't seem like human nature.

Just my take on it, I don't know any sex offenders to know what kind of change they are capable of.  ;D

 
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: duck on January 07, 2014, 04:08:01 PM
Hi 510
I love this as poetry - the deliberate liberty to tell and to do so with such economy and style. Your ability to kick start a debate without pressing for it and indeed the view expressed here, which is singulary so female that few men have the 'balls' to really get it. I wish there was more female bravery out there to counter simple male urges.
Duck
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 08, 2014, 07:11:26 AM
Thanks everybody, I'm really delighted at the discussion it's generated and the views you have expressed without this turning into a squabble. Poets win! Hurrah! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thank you all for reading, and your kind comments -- even if belief is suspended on the subject matter. ;)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Victor on January 08, 2014, 12:42:19 PM
Contentwise, this is unconvincing at best- if not, positively sophistic. The implication is that a rapist is driven by his sex drive  - he was a ruthless "beast" when he could get it up, then turned into a sensitive mystic once he couldn't get it up- which isn't just uninformed, but bespeaks of a provincial femininity and an ingenuous androphobia, and echoes of such adages that superannuated spinsters use to caution their wards about men : Men are such pigs; a stiff dick has no conscience; and so forth. With a little bit of thought anyone can see that rape or any act of interpersonal violence has for its triggers a wide spectrum of psychological anomalies including hatred, sadism, personal inadequacy, cultural conditioning etc. A rapist isn't motivated by his dick anymore than a murderer is motivated by his gun or an artist by his sable.  

Executionwise, it is overwritten and barely imaginative, and seems less to show and more to shout. Phallic penetration, tongue licks, enforced celibacy are all highly redundant word combinations and grate on your intelligence. In a way, they reflect the overall anxiety of the piece to sell the reader on an improbable premise by bashing him over the head with a gushing of such repetitive ideas as : a monster, a beast, an addict, a bachelor; spilling seeds, masturbation, bathroom privacy, less mess; desire to please, focus on her pleasure, satisfied partners. On a slightly closer analysis, this just reads like a wistful, sublimated fantasy of a woman who yearns for men to do more to her in bed than hump and walk out - but alas the solution of that lies elsewhere.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 08, 2014, 01:02:04 PM
Cheers Victor -- appreciate your comments. You've missed the point and misinterpreted my intention, but that's okay, everyone has their own opinion. Rather than a rapist driven by his sex drive it was the 'power' or the ego that was implied in his conquests. Certain beliefs uphold the idea of losing ego to find oneself, and harmony, in the world.

The over-writing, as you call it, was meant to express a particular opinion, sorry if it hurt your ears with its shouting. Subtlety was not the primary concern. I do believe the word choices are correct as there could be misunderstandings regarding what might be regarded as penetration [laws have changed to reflect that] and enforced celibacy rather than elected celibacy [as some people choose for whatever reasons].

Not all women's fantasies are the same. ;)



Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark H on January 08, 2014, 01:12:42 PM
5

There's a consensus I believe that the premise is unbelievable, but did you not hint at one point that it is based on fact?

M
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 08, 2014, 01:28:08 PM
The only facts are that sometimes chemical castration is used as a punishment for those convicted of sex crimes and that rohypnol is sometimes used as a drug to overcome partners for sex.

The rest is hyperbole and wild speculation more of a metaphor for 'what if people could change' set in a highly unlikely scenario. The subject matter obviously stirs responses and reactions people make either as a knee jerk or after some consideration . . . just interesting to see how willing we are to explore the possibility. Some replies have focused on the content as if it were fact or a true account of an event.

He won't reverse the decision is the man's choice once he has seen the 'power' he has, [evidenced by the increased number of notches on his bedpost -- still the currency of his 'worth' in his mind] that it didn't rely solely on his dick as he had imagined it had before. Hey, maybe he still eats babies and skins puppies alive, who knows. Maybe he was always a choir boy who helped old ladies across the road and just hadn't acquired any sexual finesse yet. ::)   

Can people change? Would we accept they have if their actions show such?
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: heidi52 on January 08, 2014, 01:50:20 PM

Can people change? Would we accept they have if their actions show such?

If you had asked me that question when I was young I would have said Yes, of course they can.

If you had asked me in middle age I would have said, some people can change, but it takes a lot of motivation and unflagging resolve.

Since you asked today all I can say is "A leopard can't change his spots."  ;) 8)

Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 08, 2014, 01:56:09 PM
I think it also depends on what they have to change and what age they are when they try to effect it. Some people, if young enough, can be retrained/reprogrammed/reconditioned, others when they are older can have a certain wisdom and realise the mistakes they have made and make a genuine effort to make change. Guess it's one of those things we can't generalise about because it is so subjective and often relies on what personal baggage we bring to the situation.

Thanks for your thoughts. ;)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Mark H on January 08, 2014, 01:58:14 PM
In the poem change is artificiality induced by chemical means. It would be like putting me on a program of daily cannabis and then saying: Wow!! Mark's changed; he's become really mellow.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 08, 2014, 02:01:15 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Another good point . . . so how do we 'judge' change? It might be chemically altered and his attitude may remain the same despite the new actions. More food for thought. ;)

Mark? Full-time mellow? That's even more implausible than the poem's premise! :D :D :D
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Victor on January 08, 2014, 09:59:50 PM
That a rapist derives a sense of power from his exploits is a truism. Nietzsche famously argued that all human actions are exertions of that will to power. But in case of sexual compulsions there are a plethora of complex factors at work ranging from, like I said, sociopathy, hatred, belligerence, childhood history, substance abuse, sociological/cultural/religious modeling, hormonal and neurological profiles and so on.

Hence, to say that a man will change from being a "beast" or a "monster" to a "sensitive lover" because one of his means of expression, that is, his sex drive, is taken away is akin to saying that taking away the gun from a mass murderer and putting a sickle in his hand will make him a fabulous and gentle gardener because he'd derive the same sense of power from killing weed instead of people while at the same time being useful to community. To change thus, he'd have to undergo an exhaustive transformation at numerous levels- which is the topic of clinical research- and not just have his erection snatched.

Be it fact or fiction- when you are writing within the realm of the possible and overlook the obvious logical connections at play- there's a risk of sounding either naive or lacking of thought, and that's where my criticism of this piece comes from.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 12:59:19 AM

The kind of personality that would use drugs to have his way, is a rapist. And seeing how most rape is not about sex, but rather is about control, violence,  fetishism, perversion, and or necrophilia, chemical castration will do nothing to diminish any of those compulsions. These kinds of people (if you can call them that) can not form normal relationships--I mean obviously...since when is it normal to subject a loved one to possible dead by overdose simple so you can perform pseudo-sadistic sexual experiments on them. Seems you missed the whole concept love and compassion if you were to think that sort of thing normal.

Psychology knows a good deal about this sort of thing--philosophy does not. Best stick to what works rather than stepping out onto some thin ice of maybes.     
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 09, 2014, 07:50:21 AM
Thanks guys, appreciate your knowledgeable input.

Indeed the piece maybe naďve or lacking in thought.

If the poem was meant as an academic study, it would never have made the page but as it was written to provoke thought, whether positive or negative for the reader, and whether expressed in a reply or not, it appears to have done that. There could be many better approaches, there could be prettier words, stronger imagery, a different subject, a point of view offered with balanced argument supported by respected and well-received research . . . but it lacks these things.

People have reacted to the bad *show* words in S1 but, in my mind anyway, they were applied to him as part of the assessment/judgement when his case came before the court -- their words. Yet, if his crime was so heinous, why no jail time? The reader has heard nothing from the defendant. I know, another weakness that had possibly misled the reader, but it is simply a poem and not a report for the judiciary or the victim support services.

It's an interesting topic in the British news at the moment. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25648078
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: duck on January 09, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
Hi
The question that is asked is: why does a man rape?
Perhaps we could lay it out along side the question: Why do other men not rape?

While making some valid points you must realise that the form of comparison you make between the rapist and the gardener may sound useful and create a fancy picture but is just as untenable a way to argue a case as the poem seems to be in your eyes.

It does not stand up in a debate.
Duck
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 05:11:17 PM

The article posted is shocking to say the least. Just the thought of half of the convicted pedophiles were not sentenced to jail time, even though they abused children under the age of 13, is in itself criminal. Then the article goes on to say that 94% of those convicted of rape did in fact get jail sentences. This is rather odd because having sex with a minor in the US is Rape.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 09, 2014, 05:38:48 PM
Yep -- weird world we live in. ::)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 06:06:33 PM
I wonder what Dr. Robert Hare thinks about that.
(a Canadian/British forensic psychologist who invented the psychopath check-list)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 06:19:13 PM

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 09, 2014, 07:36:51 PM
Thanks for the link, Neghe -- have to admit I do like that they say there is a cluster of related symptoms -- got scared when I read some of the descriptions and recognised parts of myself. :o
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 08:44:37 PM

Oh yeah. Like you are a psycho.  ::)
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 09, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
Okay so I'm only a wannabe, but if you had my kid brother, you might head that direction too! :o
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 10:30:21 PM

I have one in the family and suspect two more.
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 09, 2014, 10:47:26 PM
You've kidnapped my brother? :o Oh thank you, thank you, thank you. :-*
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 11:18:35 PM
 ;D

Does he not so subtlety try and make you think of his bodily functions while you are eating. That is loads (ha ha) of fun for the psychopathic.

 
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: 510bhan on January 09, 2014, 11:26:14 PM
You have got him! :o
Title: Re: He Won’t Reverse the Decision
Post by: Neghe on January 09, 2014, 11:48:40 PM

They are all the same. They want you to believe that it's their idea of being funny...that's crap. It's not funny--what is funny to them is making people upset for no reason. Just a momentary exercise of their power over people.

The appropriate response is to hit them with the fire extinguisher.