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Writing => All the Write Questions => Topic started by: Shannen Wrass on October 28, 2013, 07:25:39 PM

Title: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 28, 2013, 07:25:39 PM
I received a letter from Eber & Wein Publishing (50 E High St. New Freedom PA). It states the poem I mailed in ("Time Out To Cry") has advanced to semi-final round of National Amateur Poetry Competition. I'm to fill out the "Official Contest Entry Form" & return it. Says it offers cash prizes.
Is this a legit company?
It states: "As a semi-finalist you've earned the opportunity to be published & we'd like to feature your poem in upcoming series "This Time Around."
It sounds like I've been published... I have very little knowledge about how this business works. Does anyone know their reputation?
I'm extremely excited, but I don't want to be a fool either :/
Thanks for your help
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: wanderer on October 28, 2013, 07:49:33 PM
Do a Google search. I did find this: http://donnascand.blogspot.com/2009/03/scammedreally.html (http://donnascand.blogspot.com/2009/03/scammedreally.html)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Laura H on October 28, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
I'm sorry, Shannen. Everything I've seen indicates this is a vanity press.

Best to find out on the front end, right?
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: 510bhan on October 28, 2013, 07:54:33 PM
Whoops -- Eber & Wein don't look too good in that article/blog. ::)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 28, 2013, 09:46:21 PM
What's a "Vanity Press?" Would it hurt to mail in the form but not send any money? A few people on that blog responded that it was legit, and a few others claimed it was a scam. 
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: wanderer on October 28, 2013, 09:50:10 PM
Quote
What's a "Vanity Press?"

You have to pay to get anything published.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: DJIsaac on October 28, 2013, 10:01:22 PM
I have been a part of this scam before, tho it is not a scam per-say, I have been published in one just like it.

But mine was a photo album, and it was for one of my worst pictures. No way in hell it won.

Here is how the scam works, read for it.. Its you.

They really do publish your stuff, they get the rights, you get nothing, except a certificate saying you did it! Now here is where the scam really is, its not just that they now have the rights to your work, Its that it will never see a public bookshelf, of if it does it was through free advertising on their part, The book is usually a table book, so they can fit alot of peoples works into it.

Now who would want these the most. Ummm the people who have their stuff printed in it!!!!! omg look i got published, now your stuck shelling out a crap load of cash for something that you have a very small part in, Im lowballing at 35$ .. a 2010 issue is 70$ on amazon if you want a bunch of other peoples poems.

Really its not a big scam, just a tiny one, it helps give people dreams that they can do great things. And sometimes these are great works that otherwise you wouldn't have seen because they are from everyday people. But they make money, off of you. They do no writing, or pictures as in my case. they send the info to a printer and get paid mostly off the writers/artists themselves, and they're word of mouth, Its a pyramid scheme.

Sorry, but hey, you can always do it if you didnt really want that thing they published anyways. and if you want, they sometimes do make nice coffee table books.. I refused to do it, but that was me, and like I said it was a really really shitty picture they got off panaramio or whatever picture search

Let me see if I can find it....

Ahh there we go .. http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#view=photo&position=0&with_photo_id=14746014&order=date_desc&user=2324084
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 28, 2013, 10:07:12 PM
They put it in a book with the windshield wipers showing and EVERYTHING???? Ugh! (No offense, LOL)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: DJIsaac on October 28, 2013, 10:10:35 PM
I know right, and the date, thats how I knew for sure it was a scam, a legit one, but a scam none the less, they're just looking for enough people to reply so that they have the rights to enough peoples work to make the book even happen
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 28, 2013, 10:15:12 PM
So what happens when they send it to the copyright office & it's all ready there? I paid the $35 & filed it myself like a month ago, before submitting it anywhere. (The whole copyright thing has me confused too, but that's a whole 'nother thread)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: DJIsaac on October 28, 2013, 10:18:40 PM
Sorry, cant help you there, like I said, I never went past the point of having the offer mailed to me. The thing they wanted of mine was crap, I suppose they figure if you signed the paper, you want it to happen enough not to charge them for printing it. I suppose the issue would be if you had it sold to someone else, then they could counter sue you for giving them the rights to publish something that wasnt yours to sell I suppose. Not sure, not a lawyer.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: wanderer on October 28, 2013, 10:35:24 PM
Check online, but in the US a work is automatically copyrighted when you do it. No need to pay and file.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Gyppo on October 28, 2013, 11:33:05 PM
Eber & Wein may be legitimate.  They may even send out money to a few 'winners' as the responses to the blog suggest.  But they make their money selling people's own words back to them.   Is that really what you want to buy into?

Let's not beat around the bushes here, Shannen..  It's vanity publishing.

If you're not sure what that means it's very simple.

You pay to have your work put into a book along with a load of other people who also pay.  In return for this you payment you get one copy of the book, and an invitation to buy others at a 'special price'.

It's a rip off at any price and under any name.

Vanity presses will 'publish' complete and utter twaddle as long as the sucker writer pays.  Periodically some public-spirited writer proves this by sending in a piece of work so dire that no self respecting publisher would look at it, yet alone pay to use it.

But do people learn?  Of course not.  They fall for all the weasel phrases about 'work which would otherwise remain unpublished despite its merit' and such like.

In legitimate publishing money flows - well, trickles in some cases - from the publisher to the writer.  No legitimate publisher charges the writer.  There are some small publishing poetry presses who work from the kitchen table and only 'pay' in free copies.  These make very little, are run as a labour of love by enthusiasts, but never ask you for money.  These may be minnows, but they'll never be sharks.

There are also book producers who do just that. Nothing more.  No editing, no value judgement They take your money and produce a book.  There is no quality control on this.  No editing.  No publicity.  In short none of the services you get from a real publisher.  

Some of these producers will offer to sell you these extra services.  As soon as you see this you are dealing with a vanity press.

Technically these people are breaking no laws.  They do exactly what they say they will.  Nothing less, and certainly nothing more.

But what they successfully imply is that you will be read by many, that you will 'get your name out there'.  You could do that just as effectively by making a paper funnel from the money you would send them, and using it as a megaphone to shout your details and verses through it into the face of a force ten gale.   These folks play on your dreams and hopes and do very nicely out of it.

Vanity publishing is an evil and soul destroying business, for the victims.  But very lucrative for the vanity presses.

Gyppo



Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Lin on October 29, 2013, 04:52:58 AM
You should never pay anyone to get published - full stop! Never let your heart rule your head. ~This is not your last chance to get published!  Never sign anything you are not sure about.

Lin  ;)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: hillwalker3000 on October 29, 2013, 06:15:06 AM
There are 2 problems with vanity presses:

1) They publish ANYTHING. You could write the worst poem you ever wrote - and if you send it to them they will as likely as not tell you it's wonderful and is going to be published by them. Editorial integrity = zero.

2) They also realise that most unpublished writers will grasp any opportunity to see their work in print. But why aim low with a $5 pamphlet when they can offload a $70 brick? If people are dumb enough to waste money on everyone else's garbage just to see their own name on one of the pages perhaps one can understand why E+W go ahead and do it. They're in it for the money.

These people might be parasites - but they're not breaking the law.

H3K
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Chizzy on October 29, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
I agree with what's been said. These vanity presses, United Press is another, typically produce phonebook sized anthologies with pages as thin as those in the bible, with tiny fonts, and with as many poems crammed in as they possibly can manage, with uncorrected typos, all in the hope that enough authors and friends and family of the author will buy their substandard product to make it worthwhile. And clearly enough do buy it otherwise they wouldn't continue their conveyor belt, churning out anthology after anthology. Why anyone other than the desperate would want their name attached to such a thing is beyond me.

I think you also need to do some reading on copyright. Sending $35 to copyright your work really isn't a great use of your money. You own the copyright anyway. E & W or United or whomever own the copyright to the anthology but the copyright for the actual work is retained by the authors. Or at least that's how it should work. If anyone wants to you to give them the copyright of your work or make it a condition for its publication you should say thank you and then walk the other way. If I sell a short story and give up my copyright on it, that means if, for example, Steven Spielberg reads it and decides to make a movie out of it, I don't get a penny. What you should be prepared to give up or sell and what most magazines want is First Serial Rights which basically gives them exclusive right to be the first time publisher of that work. That's what you tend to be selling when someone buys your work for publication.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Alice, a Country Gal on October 29, 2013, 10:16:14 AM
Something I've seen first hand that made me sick about such Publishers, they hit schools here in the US also.

When my granddaughter was in her last year in high school,  she was so excited when she told me that some of her poetry was going to be published.

And I was happy for her of course. Until I saw the book for what it was. As a requirement for them placing her work in their book, she had to buy at least one copy and yes, they did offer a second copy at a discounted price. If memory serves, she paid around $80.00 for the first copy.

Don't get me wrong, I liked her poetry. She's my granddaughter and I love her. Now, I'm not a poet, nor do I understand all the ins and outs about the art form. But I'm reasonable sure that any legitimate publisher of poetry would not have agreed to publish her work without more work and refinement.

Research carefully, read every sentence carefully. If they ask or require money . . . Run.   
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 29, 2013, 10:45:40 AM
Ok... Hear me out on this copyright thing (I'm honestly not a professional writer. I'm just a paramedic who works in the ER, & a mom/wife, LOL)
Here's what happened to me:
When I was 15 years old (1995) I sent a poem I wrote called "The Perfect Friend" into "Teen Magazine." They published it & I got a free subscription. Very cool for a kid. Never heard another word, never thought about it again. 3 months ago, (almost 20 years later) My dad calls me: "OMG, google The perfect friend by Shannen Wrass, you're famous!" So there's my poem, on e-cards, in an English textbook, blogs, middle/high school kids doing reports on it, someone made it into a song on You Tube, ect. I'm thrilled! Now, here's the copyright concern: Some (not very many, but some) have taken credit for my poem. I'm not out to sue or go to court, I just want the name "Shannen Wrass" attached to every poem I've ever written. Even the e-cards & screensaver things that said "author unknown" irritated me. Because they're my words, my feelings and my pain, and I want to own that. "Shannen Wrass" is a part of me that I conquered. I won my fight with her & all she left me with are notebooks full of poems with that name.
I was only able to claim my work with Web Masters & DMCA because I had proof of publication with the publishing date June 1995. I have no proof of ownership on any of my other poems I'm putting out there now. I know I'll never make money doing this, but it's fun and I'm learning so much! Even editing my old work with the help of YOU guys! :)

I agree with what's been said. These vanity presses, United Press is another, typically produce phonebook sized anthologies with pages as thin as those in the bible, with tiny fonts, and with as many poems crammed in as they possibly can manage, with uncorrected typos, all in the hope that enough authors and friends and family of the author will buy their substandard product to make it worthwhile. And clearly enough do buy it otherwise they wouldn't continue their conveyor belt, churning out anthology after anthology. Why anyone other than the desperate would want their name attached to such a thing is beyond me.

I think you also need to do some reading on copyright. Sending $35 to copyright your work really isn't a great use of your money. You own the copyright anyway. E & W or United or whomever own the copyright to the anthology but the copyright for the actual work is retained by the authors. Or at least that's how it should work. If anyone wants to you to give them the copyright of your work or make it a condition for its publication you should say thank you and then walk the other way. If I sell a short story and give up my copyright on it, that means if, for example, Steven Spielberg reads it and decides to make a movie out of it, I don't get a penny. What you should be prepared to give up or sell and what most magazines want is First Serial Rights which basically gives them exclusive right to be the first time publisher of that work. That's what you tend to be selling when someone buys your work for publication.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 29, 2013, 11:06:44 AM
PS: "Shannen Wrass" isn't even my name anymore, she only exists online. People on Yahoo Answers were looking for her... So I created her again :)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: SunshineX on October 29, 2013, 11:21:36 AM
This is an interesting problem and I admit that I'm not entirely sure what to do.

I guess if it were me I would begin by listing everywhere the poem has been used. Then I would contact each publisher directly. Be sure to provide them with a link to the original publication. I would expect the publisher to correct it in an upcoming edition, particularly in the case of the textbook.

I think that in this case it was a good idea to get a copyright, though usually that would be unnecessary.

That's all I can offer. I'll be interested to read other people's response to this issue.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Lin on October 29, 2013, 12:06:04 PM
I hear that if it's on your computer and dated then it's yours.

Lin
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Chizzy on October 29, 2013, 12:34:39 PM
Quote
Ok... Hear me out on this copyright thing (I'm honestly not a professional writer. I'm just a paramedic who works in the ER, & a mom/wife, LOL)
Here's what happened to me:
When I was 15 years old (1995) I sent a poem I wrote called "The Perfect Friend" into "Teen Magazine." They published it & I got a free subscription. Very cool for a kid. Never heard another word, never thought about it again. 3 months ago, (almost 20 years later) My dad calls me: "OMG, google The perfect friend by Shannen Wrass, you're famous!" So there's my poem, on e-cards, in an English textbook, blogs, middle/high school kids doing reports on it, someone made it into a song on You Tube, ect. I'm thrilled! Now, here's the copyright concern: Some (not very many, but some) have taken credit for my poem. I'm not out to sue or go to court, I just want the name "Shannen Wrass" attached to every poem I've ever written. Even the e-cards & screensaver things that said "author unknown" irritated me. Because they're my words, my feelings and my pain, and I want to own that. "Shannen Wrass" is a part of me that I conquered. I won my fight with her & all she left me with are notebooks full of poems with that name.
I was only able to claim my work with Web Masters & DMCA because I had proof of publication with the publishing date June 1995. I have no proof of ownership on any of my other poems I'm putting out there now. I know I'll never make money doing this, but it's fun and I'm learning so much! Even editing my old work with the help of YOU guys!

If someone wants to steal your work, theyíre going to do it whether or not youíve paid $35 to have copyright or not. In this case, you can prove the work is yours because it was published in Teen Magazine.

Iím not aware of anyone doing this with anything Iíve ever written, but were they to do so, I have evidence of the date I wrote the piece from the Word doc, I probably have dated instances of my posting it on a forum like this for review, I have emails giving proof that I submitted the piece to any number of markets and, hopefully, I have an acceptance email and publication date with whichever market decided to publish it. My point is, I have a number of ways to prove that one of my stories or poems is indeed one of mine. I donít believe that puts me in a stronger or weaker position than you if someone decided they were going to plagiarize my work and I decided to chase them down about it. The only difference is, I still have my $35.

Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 29, 2013, 12:50:03 PM
Duly noted my friend :)
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Shannen Wrass on October 29, 2013, 01:13:11 PM
I'm really happy about anything that has my name still attached to it. Probably the coolest thing that's ever happened to me. The poem took on a life of it's own. The English text book & almost everything else had "Shannen Wrass" as the author. So I'm actually happy they did it, it was just the "author unknown" & bloggers claiming they wrote it that made me paranoid for the rest of my poems. Having that copyright made things real easy via email with webmasters. I think I contacted all of them with no problems & the DCMA shut down a bunch (I only used DMCA for the advertising companies) Made it real easy.

This is an interesting problem and I admit that I'm not entirely sure what to do.

I guess if it were me I would begin by listing everywhere the poem has been used. Then I would contact each publisher directly. Be sure to provide them with a link to the original publication. I would expect the publisher to correct it in an upcoming edition, particularly in the case of the textbook.

I think that in this case it was a good idea to get a copyright, though usually that would be unnecessary.

That's all I can offer. I'll be interested to read other people's response to this issue.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: SunshineX on October 29, 2013, 01:37:49 PM
That's all so exciting!

I have no advice for you then. It sounds to me like you've got this under control!
Title: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: wiltseliz13 on May 20, 2016, 08:21:33 PM
Should I trust this publishing company?
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Gyppo on May 21, 2016, 02:50:43 AM
If you actually read and understood the previous comments you wouldn't be asking this question.

Gyppo
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: WilliamJHussman on December 25, 2016, 04:13:13 PM
On Eber and Wein , i have contributed many poems ,they have sent me a proof copy before publishing, never promised me money, clearly shared with me in writing my work is my own , ISBN number and published my work with many many other authors in a an anthology compilation. Just like they said they would. The work is offered on amazon world wide, for sale.  Am i looking for fame and fortune as a poet ,short story writer. No. How many do you know?. I was offered to purchase many products from eber and wein ,but never had to purchase anything to get published. 


Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Blinksuldhc on January 01, 2017, 08:38:34 AM
On Eber and Wein , i have contributed many poems ,they have sent me a proof copy before publishing, never promised me money, clearly shared with me in writing my work is my own , ISBN number and published my work with many many other authors in a an anthology compilation. Just like they said they would. The work is offered on amazon world wide, for sale.  Am i looking for fame and fortune as a poet ,short story writer. No. How many do you know?. I was offered to purchase many products from eber and wein ,but never had to purchase anything to get published. 




Either you're a shill working for them or you're just severely. . . off-base, to be polite.

Let me guess, you got an email that addresses you by your name, referred to your work by its ACTUAL title, AND it even had snippets or the whole work in the body of that email?

Am I close?

Did you also get sent a link to a "legit"-looking website that looks like a "real" publisher just trying to sell a sort of "collections" book of works by various authors...and the book was possibly and literally called "Collections"? (Doesn't get any lazier than that)

Did you also get mail from them with their fancy preprinted envelopes be letterhead with a letter that was essentially the email but cleaner, again referencing your work?

What you didn't read properly is the weasel language where they say they MIGHT print your work, and imply that it WOULD get printed if you ordered a $60 copy of their book and CD reading of the works.

Yeah, sure, it may have an ISBN, but so do self-published books. Also, HAVE YOU ACTUALLY SEEN YOUR QORK IN A BOOK OF THEIRS THAT DID NOT BELONG TO YOU OR ANYONE YOU KNOW?

Basically, you won't get "published" without paying. Nothing you said indicates you actually had your work printed. And even if they DID print your work, it's essentially filler and I can almost guarantee you that no one has or will read it, not even the "editor" of the company. The absolute best you can hope for is to be "filler" in someone's bathroom book, and a houseguest squatting on the toilet happens to flip open to your page and reads it....and then forgets about it before he even washes his hands.

I almost bought into them the first time.

Second time, I submitted the famous Dylan Thomas "Do not go gently into that good night" poem, word for word, and they didn't say anything other than what I mentioned above about it "possibly" being published. They either read it and 1) didn't have a damn clue they were reading one of the most famous American poems on history or 2) they didn't give a damn and chose to assist and abet me on a presumed literary crime, OR, more likely, they didn't read a damn thing.

I absolutely call BS on you being "published" by them without paying a dime, and even If you did, it's like bragging you got HIV from Charlie Sheen.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: WilliamJHussman on January 01, 2017, 11:29:26 AM
Thank you poetry devil , we all got it in the rear from eber and weins mighty pitchfork.  At the very least eber and wein promotes poetry ,in a very shrinking book market. For young children they get a small promotion and understanding how important the literary art of poetry is.  At the very most many unknown authors get something out there along with 600 to 1200 other would be ,and actual poets. Eber and Wein promises nothing but an entrance to publishing , isbn ,no. ,a small contest, In an industry that is changing so much and shrinking in some areas growing in others Eber and wein is trying to keep things afloat. I think the biggest thing that Eber and Wein shares with more mature "poets, and would be younger poets besides, promoting , some vanity, perhaps in others,is that you do not ever have to pay monies, for your own literary accomplishment.  Bill
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Gyppo on January 01, 2017, 12:20:29 PM
In an industry that is changing so much and shrinking in some areas growing in others Eber and wein is trying to keep things afloat.

Knock it off.  You are not only flogging a dead horse, you are flagellating its skeleton.

Gyppo

Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Laura H on January 01, 2017, 02:27:29 PM
Eber and Wein have long been on multiple naughty lists, such as the SFWA Writer Beware site http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2009/03/victoria-strauss-eber-wein-another.html .

I see that they've now caught the attention of the Better Business Bureau.

https://www.bbb.org/washington-dc-eastern-pa/business-reviews/publishers-book/eber-wein-inc-in-new-freedom-pa-152642130

From the BBB site-


On October 14, 2016, the BBB requested information on Eber and Wein's affiliation with Poetry Nation, Inc. The BBB requested the information as Poetry Nation, Inc  holds poetry contest twice a year claiming to award cash prizes and plaques for meritorious poetry.  The majority of complaints against Eber and Wein, a poetry self-publication firm, were filed by poetry contestants who did not receive the promised benefits from Poetry Nation.  To date, Eber and Wein has not responded to the BBB's request for information. 


I have to wonder at the motive of the poster who bumped this thread, but it serves as a good reminder to us all. Do your research, Writers.
Title: Re: My poem advanced to semi-final round (Eber & Wein Publishing) Legit or scam?
Post by: Lin on January 04, 2017, 05:09:17 PM
If you have to pay them money then think again!  Don't.

Lin