My Writers Circle

Writing => All the Write Questions => Topic started by: Lin on October 03, 2010, 06:19:07 AM

Title: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 03, 2010, 06:19:07 AM
How should I punctuate this sentence for maximum impact.
I don't like it and I want to know how someone else might write this. The situation here is that it's important to the story.  


The woman bent forward to pick up her purse,  her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights, her toes, squashed into ill-fitting shoes.

Anything at all you can change here to make it sound annoying to the main character Pippa, because the next lines are:-

Looking embarrassed and hurt she turned to face Pippa  
 'Sorry, are you ok?’ the woman asked
   Pippa bit her lip. In heels that high, no wonder she tripped!    She was a long way from ‘ok.’ How she hated mornings.


I'm on the editing stages of my novel now.  So every line counts.



Lin x
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Hugh on October 03, 2010, 06:47:23 AM
I think there are several ways you could do it. Here’s one:

The woman bent forward to pick up her purse, her black skirt showing the line at the top of her pink tights. Her toes were squashed into ill-fitting shoes.

Or you could use semi-colons, but they seem to be going out of fashion these days. Or you could make it three separate sentences, with full stops. I feel that the “toes squashed into ill-fitting shoes” doesn’t belong with the bending over and showing her knicker line, but I could be wrong — after all, I’m a bloke; what do I know about such things?

Hugh
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Nick on October 03, 2010, 06:47:55 AM
You're trying to cram too much into one sentence there, Lin. I'd probably do it like this:

The woman bent forward to pick up her purse. Her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights. Her toes were squashed into ill-fitting shoes.

Nick  :)
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 03, 2010, 07:34:05 AM
Trust you Nick to get it right every time! LOL  - Thanks so much.  Yes, too much in there, I agree.  Sometimes I just don't see it. I think my confidence goes up and down like the proverbial gooseberry in a lift! I'm green and  sometimes this writing thing is very hairy.   

Thanks Hugh as well.  The woman has tripped on her luggage and spilt her tea on the station platform hence the 'ill fitting shoes' and 'no wonder she tripped.'

Lin x


Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: ma100 on October 03, 2010, 07:59:52 PM
Perhaps it's just me as nobody else has mentioned it, but how does a black skirt show a pink line of tights?

I agree you are trying to squash too much in maybe.

Quote
The woman bent forward to pick up her purse,  her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights, her toes, squashed into ill-fitting shoes.

When the woman bent over for her purse, her hem line framed the top her pink tights.

The woman bent over for her purse and displayed tommorows washing. >:D Sorry Lin, I couldn't resist.

I too don't feel the shoes have any relevance. She tripped, we all have two left feet now and again.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 04, 2010, 03:06:45 AM
Well here it is so far.  I'm going to post this with further questions in the Review My Work Section so no need to comment here about this para overall, but please do in the Review thread. This is so you guys can see the real thing in All the Write Questions.

In a careless moment, a young woman tripped on a suitcase and spilt her tea. A plastic cup lay on the
platform at Darlington station as the milky liquid cascaded over the seat.
    Instinctively, Pippa jerked her feet back to avoid the mess.   Her denim jeans caught the splashes. Not another one of those days? The woman heard a depressive sigh.  
    As she bent forward to retrieve her purse, her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights. Her toes were squashed into ill-fitting shoes.
   Looking embarrassed and hurt she turned to face Pippa. 'Sorry, are you ok?’
   Pippa bit her lip. In heels that high, no wonder she tripped!   She was a long way from ‘ok.’ How she hated mornings.
             ‘Yes thank you.’ Pippa replied. She didn't mean to appear rude. Bidding her farewell to Rob, hadn’t been a favorable experience. He could, at least, have kissed her goodbye.  She wouldn’t see him for three weeks and what the heck was she doing boarding a train on her own for the first time without him?  

Please feel free to comment on the question in hand.

Lin x
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: A.J.B on October 04, 2010, 08:52:02 AM
You're trying to cram too much into one sentence there, Lin. I'd probably do it like this:

The woman bent forward to pick up her purse. Her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights. Her toes were squashed into ill-fitting shoes.

Nick  :)

I would agree. It did sound like there was too much going on. I think Nick has the right of it with his suggestion, but there is always the option of making it two sentences instead of three like has been suggested. Both work (two sentences would be more my way of writing than three, however).
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 05, 2010, 10:18:59 PM
Two comments on this part:  "Pippa bit her lip. In heels that high, no wonder she tripped!   
She was a long way from ‘ok.’ How she hated mornings."

(1) You expressed her thoughts properly (in italics) but it's a mortal sin to use omniscient tense these days.
(2) And when you use the word "okay", don't abbreviate it.

You have an interesting and engaging style of writing. I like it. :)

Best, Deb

Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Foxy on October 06, 2010, 03:58:18 AM
(2) And when you use the word "okay", don't abbreviate it.

Both forms of okay are acceptable, but when using the abbreviated form it should be capitalised, OK.  ;)

Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Pollythumper on October 06, 2010, 08:55:05 AM


   Hi Lin,

   How does this sound?

   
As she bent forward to retrieve her purse, her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights.  Her toes squashed like trotters, into ill fitting shoes.

Maybe describes the character a little more?
                                                           Pol
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: WoodridgeNZ on October 07, 2010, 05:29:48 AM
... but it's a mortal sin to use omniscient tense these days.

Hi Deb, if you're still following this thread, what do you mean by "omniscient tense"?

Thanks.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 08, 2010, 12:29:38 AM
I mispoke. The proper phrase is omnisicient voice, which means you're telling what the character is thinking - one of the biggest no-no's in writing these days. If you reveal what a character is thinking, you must write it in italics and without quotes, but omniscient voice isn't selling right now so I advise you to stay clear of it.

The reason it isn't selling is because it "tells" rather than "shows". Newbies lay on this rather heavily as omniscient voice is a shortcut that keeps them from slaving away at Show, Don't Tell.

One thing that is ever-changing with editors is what they do or don't buy. Every two or three years the rules change and when one changes, they all change. The "in" thing right now is using Show, Don't Tell, don't use adverbs that end in, don't use omniscient voice, and don't use more than three prepositional phrases in a sentence (and no more than two in consecutive order). Semi-colons are no longer appreciated and don't use more than one exclamation mark per thousand words.

A great way to reveal new information is through dialogue, either through another character or through the narrator. Hope that helps.

Deb
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 08, 2010, 03:24:19 AM
I beg to differ in this debate.  If you read the latest Audrey Niffenegger  "Her Fearful Symmetry"  her characters are all thinking internally! And it sells. It was brilliant and the internal dialogue did it for me.   I know it was three years ago or more and rules change, but my style of writing calls for this and this is not a cop out for not showing, its the way my style develops and my character is this way - always thinking, thinking she has no-one else to turn to. She has to think internally otherwise the -'she thought' gets boring.

  I don't think this will be a problem. My character is on a train by herself so cannot have dialogue - I mean is she going to tell the whole train about her problems and have discussions with everyone.  No, I dont think this would work in my case  Rules may change but I shall only do that when the big editor comes along and says - 'sorry but we dont want internal dialogue.'  This is my final draft until it goes to my agent and then we shall see from there.  I say like it as it is and if there is a glimmer of hope I will go with it.  This is my book and if it's good enough for our Audrey, it will do for me too.  

I know that might sound as if I am not looking at the big picture.  But so far no-one has told me to change it and it's been read by so many people and professionals too - authors who also use internal dialogue.  This is my unique style - love me or hate me.

On the day it's all about who reads it and if they like it. Amen.

Thanks Deborah for your comments - much appreciated that you clarified the situation, but rules and there to be broken!

Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: WoodridgeNZ on October 08, 2010, 06:27:35 AM
I mispoke. The proper phrase is omnisicient voice, which means you're telling what the character is thinking - one of the biggest no-no's in writing these days. If you reveal what a character is thinking, you must write it in italics and without quotes, but omniscient voice isn't selling right now so I advise you to stay clear of it.

The reason it isn't selling is because it "tells" rather than "shows". Newbies lay on this rather heavily as omniscient voice is a shortcut that keeps them from slaving away at Show, Don't Tell.

One thing that is ever-changing with editors is what they do or don't buy. Every two or three years the rules change and when one changes, they all change. The "in" thing right now is using Show, Don't Tell, don't use adverbs that end in, don't use omniscient voice, and don't use more than three prepositional phrases in a sentence (and no more than two in consecutive order). Semi-colons are no longer appreciated and don't use more than one exclamation mark per thousand words.

Wow! What a lot of rules, Deb! Sounds as though this "omniscient voice" is internal dialogue, right? I've just read Dan Brown's latest, and he uses that a lot, and uses it well (he keeps me up late because I can't put the book down!). And, surely, that's the key thing: not to overuse any one technique and to use each to good effect. It's interesting to know what's hot/not for publishers, but I don't think this will change the way I write. I generally write from the POV of just one character (at a time), so I don't quite see how the thoughts/internal dialogue of that character could be seen as "omniscient".

Re Lin's book, I'm with her on this one.

BTW, in your list of rules, is there something missing here? (Just curious.)
don't use adverbs that end in

Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Foxy on October 08, 2010, 09:28:36 AM
The proper phrase is omnisicient voice, which means you're telling what the character is thinking - one of the biggest no-no's in writing these days.

Omniscient voice (sometimes known as head hopping) is a narrative style in which the author and reader observe the situation through the senses and thoughts of more than one character. It can also reveal things that none of the characters are aware of, rather like an all-seeing god's eye point of view.

If you reveal what a character is thinking, you must write it in italics and without quotes . . .

As I read it, apart from the line about hearing a depressive sigh, Lin is using third-person limited point of view, which only reveals what can be seen, known or thought from a single character's point of view. In this viewpoint it is common to reveal the character's thoughts. Read any modern novel and you will see that thoughts are punctuated in the same way as dialogue but without the quotation marks. Thoughts in italics usually, though not always, indicate direct immediate thought in past tense narrative, whether it be in third-person or first-person.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 08, 2010, 01:31:33 PM
Deborah
I'll tell you what alarmed me about your post, it seemed so final.  

Quote

The proper phrase is omnisicient voice, which means you're telling what the character is thinking - one of the biggest no-no's in writing these days. If you reveal what a character is thinking, you must write it in italics and without quotes, but omniscient voice isn't selling right now so I advise you to stay clear of it.

Whilst I appreciate your help ever so much and always will, I did get a sense of finality.

I really think to be a writer these days you have to be as flexible as a bendy toy.  There are in fact, I feel, hardly any rules to writing except get on with it,  make it look neat and tidy and ensure you use words which have powerful impact on the reader. Oh yes make sure the story works.  

Other than that, just do it and see what your brain accomplishes. ' Relax, just do it - if you wanna get through it!'

All these rules drive me crazy - who said I have to do this, that and the other?   When I get an offer from an agent, only then will I discover the 'rules' If they love my style and my story then I feel I have to listen and listen hard. When an agent looks at your story the first thing they want is impact, correct me if I'm wrong.  If they like what they see they will want to read on and take it from there. This author may be unique and shows signs of being a best seller.

Thanks to everyone who contributed here here it has been a very interesting debate and thanks to Deborah for introducing the topic.

Lin x

 
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 08, 2010, 09:46:29 PM
Hi Guys - Sorry, but I was out of town for a couple of days and just
now saw the comments. Such interesting points of view, too!> Yes,
writing is a lot of rules, and yes, all rules can be broken at some point
in time but it's usually best to leave that for the pros. I'm all for you!
The rules aren't my ideas. Kind of like the Bible, ya know. Don't shoot
the mailman (woman) (person) (whatever). > I have a story that I wrote
in omniscient voice not long ago. I don't think it'll sell, but I'll try. Like
you, Lin, the story demanded it, so I understand what you're saying.

Thanks for catching this, WoodridgeNZ: don't use adverbs that end in... (-ly)
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: WoodridgeNZ on October 10, 2010, 05:56:35 AM
Hi Deborah
Thanks for catching this, WoodridgeNZ: don't use adverbs that end in... (-ly)

I kinda thought that was what you meant to say, because I couldn't think of anything else, but I just couldn't believe that could be a rule.  :o You must be kidding, right? Most adverbs end in -ly. Take off the -ly, and it's an adjective, not an adverb. E.g., "slowly" (adverb), "slow" (adjective); "hastily" (adverb), "hasty" (adjective).

Perhaps the rule is really about avoiding flowery language or overuse of adverbs, especially ones that jar the reader (or are made up). For example, and your entertainment (oh, it's hard, but fun, to deliberately write something bad!):

"Come on," Jane said insistently. "We're going to be stupendously late!"
"Just a minute," Cara replied sniffily. She blew her nose loudly and deftly threw the tissue into the bin. Shakily, she applied her subtly pink lipstick and examined her reflection contemplatively. She could now hear Jane pacing huffily downstairs, so she reluctantly grabbed her coat and rushed hurriedly out the door.

Kathleen  :)
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 10, 2010, 08:17:15 AM
I was told that adverbs tend to slow down the action.  Also the way you use dialogue should 'show' what the person is feeling or saying.  I only use the occasional adverb to show I am human!  Lots of published authors use them sparingly so I will do that too.

Lin x
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 10, 2010, 11:58:52 PM
Woodridge! HA! Loved the example... but I'm afraid it's a hard and fast law these days. You have the right idea - nearly all adverbs end in -ly, and are thus disqualified. The reason for this is that adverbs tell rather than show. I don't think telling will ever come back in the sense that it once was. Another present rule is to end dialogue with "he said" and "she said". > Writing is an ever-changing profession and rules don't remain static.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 01:22:59 AM
How should I punctuate this sentence for maximum impact.
  


The woman bent forward to pick up her purse,  her black skirt showed the line at the top of her pink tights, her toes, squashed into ill-fitting shoes.


Chancing a precarious bend forward in ill-fitting shoes with toes squashed tight, the woman's skirt rose high, revealing the line at the top of her pink tights. The dratted purse was just beyond her reach. ???



Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: WoodridgeNZ on October 11, 2010, 06:01:33 AM
Glad you enjoyed my deliberately purple prose there, Deborah. I was trying to see how many adverbs I could squeeze in! (I think 11 in the 6 sentences!) In case anyone's reading this and doesn't realise - I don't actually write like that - it was a joke!  ;D

I do get it - use adverbial phrases and clauses that "show" rather than relying on clumsy adverbs. My point, however, was that it seems a bit extreme to have a blanket rule that you can't use adverbs - they are a natural part of our language. Leaving them out entirely would be like giving up a whole food group! An Aitkins Diet for writers!

Kathleen
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 08:32:49 AM
Couldn't agree more, has the world gone mad? Is it to appeal to the generation brought up on visual images through screens who have limited vocabulary and just wouldn't understand descriptive adverbs? "I feel a rant coming on," she said snippishly/angrily/jokingly - who knows???
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 11, 2010, 01:18:26 PM
Have any of you researched a book recently to see how many 'should nots' are in the writing?   Do you ever look through a novel and analyse the author's writing.

If not then do it and you will get a sense of, this is great writing but look at all those adverbs and 'Hads' and 'its' and was/were.  Go on gizza break!

Things don't have to be so strict, we are all beating ourselves with too many sticks.

Enjoy what you are doing and hope that someone somewhere likes your story.

Lin x
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 02:03:14 PM
Does everything have to uber, ultra and post modernistic? I have old favoutries in lots of things and that's why I will favour a particular author..not necessarily because they are 'clever' but because they tell a damn good story that keeps me enagaged and wanting to turn the pages to see how the plot develops and what becomes of the hero or the villain. Nolt all novels have to be academically correct, sometimes rawness and naivete is very appealing. It also often makes for easy reading - not everything has to be highbrow and aiming for prizes.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: ma100 on October 11, 2010, 02:57:32 PM
As this thread seems to be developing here's my two penneth. It totally depends on what you want to do with your work I feel.

My view seems to be out on my own here. I feel if I have invested vast amounts of time into my work, I owe it to myself to make the read as engaging as I possibly can. There is nothing wrong with the use of was, were had etc and sometimes the odd ly. The problem lies when the writer over uses them.
 
Passive voice/ telling indicators/ adverbs whatever you want to call them do have a place, but you must learn to use them in the best way. I don’t want to be told she was heartbroken, I want to be immersed in her pain.

Of course published authors in the past have used telling, but there lies the difference, they are published and have already got the contract for the next deal, even if it’s a shopping list. :)

The normal everyday reader won’t pick up on passive voice as much as not engaging with your character and if you lose their interest by gabbing about the character rather than showing the characters emotion, you will lose them a few pages in.

Publishers, especially in this economic climate, want a sure thing. Something they know they can sell with well rounded characters and a great story. But they are the ones you have to impress with your writing capabilities. Even if you have the best story in the world, if you have the first page as info dump and passive voice, it won’t even get past the post room.

It would be wonderful to think editors sit and read all our hard work. But that first page is so important and the reality is it will hit the slush pile if they are not hooked and immersed in the writing. They are pure and simple businessmen and the trend now is Show don’t tell. Maybe in five years time it’ will be something else, but I’d rather go by the advice I have been given by published authors rather than saying something like Martina Cole had 27 Had’s, was and were on one page. :P

Lin you seem to have a strong opinion on this and I commend you for sticking to your guns, but I am going to give myself the best chance possible by learning the rules and breaking them when I know what I’m doing. Okay my book will probably never get published, but I would like to think I gave it my all and took notice of the few great guys on here who helped me.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 03:28:35 PM
No problem playing the game - you've got to be in it to win it and once you're in then you can fight battles as you wish. However for those who simply enjoy writing and reading reasonable stuff - even for ideas or inspiration surely anything should be welcome and not slated because ir doesn't fit the current mould. Criticism is welcome and following, recipes, rules or formulae obviously pay dividends but sometimes it is a matter of personal taste, which is rather subjective.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: ma100 on October 11, 2010, 03:56:32 PM
For those that simply enjoy writing and not wishing to be nudged in the right direction there is places. Like on here, we have a gallery where people can showcase their work. If it doesn't fit in the current mould and they are happy about that and their readers are too, there's no problem.  ;)

However, if their ultimate goal is publishing and they want advice, they will put it in places like our review board and recognise they are actually being helped not slated. Lets face it reviewers are putting in a lot of time free of charge to try and help posters and to be told 'well I'm only doing it for my own enjoyment' they feel they have wasted their effort and has many times put off reviewers from doing anymore.

Don't get me wrong, there is some awful people that are just out to be plain horrible, but at MWC we try and control any of that sort of behaviour. I learnt early to get that thick skin or I'd still be crying into my rum ;D
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 04:22:43 PM
Seems everyone's gone very defensive and nit picking. Fair point about the correct place for showcasing or critical review. Only coment further...if you have to use the past perfect tense had will inevitably feature in your writing.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 11, 2010, 04:37:35 PM
There are two groups of writers - those who write for pleasure and those who write for publication.
If you're writing for pleasure, do what you will, but if you want to be published, you play the
editor's game or there is no game.

When you look at publications and find things on today's no-no list, check the publication date.
Not very likely that it has been printed in the past 2-3 years.

If you learn to write by today's standards, you'll be ready to submit for publication when the notion
arises.   ;) 

No one has asked where these writing rules come from. The answer - the most current writer's magazines - largely written by editors. Personally, I like The Writer Magazine the best.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 05:28:01 PM
Just wondering..what percentage of editors do you reckon are also publshed authors?  Is it a bit like - those who can ..do it and those who can't ..teach /preach it?
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 11, 2010, 05:35:11 PM
Excellent question. I would imagine all of them are published. If not, they
have certainly studied the art and know what sells.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: 510bhan on October 11, 2010, 05:43:19 PM
You'd like to think so, wouldn't you. Handing over your precious baby to a stranger who may not have children but runs a damned good nursery!
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Tempered on October 11, 2010, 06:19:23 PM
Rules - I cringe whenever I see them bind creativity because of one or a group of people's preferences.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 11, 2010, 07:30:33 PM
Rules - I cringe whenever I see them bind creativity because of one or a group of people's preferences.

I used to despise writing rules with a passion, until I learned they made me a better writer.
There's a price to pay for everything worth having.  :)
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: WoodridgeNZ on October 11, 2010, 09:26:57 PM
I think there's a mixture of things in these so-called rules. (1) There are rules/guidelines on how to write better, to produce something that reads well and tells a great story. (2) These rules/guidelines are the opinions of a bunch of editors/publishers on what style of writing they think people will want to read this month/year/etc, which will influence the sorts of stories/books they will pay writers for.

Re (1), as writers, we seriously need to listen to these rules/guidelines, because they will help us to produce better (and hopefully more publishable) work.

Re (2), I think we need to acknowledge that these are only opinions, albeit the opinions of very influential people - those who may or may not publish our work. However, opinions change over time, so if one is at the early stages of writing now, and might not finish for another year or two, I fail to see the value in tailoring one's writing style to the current whims. If editing now, however, it may be an advantage to do so.

The problem, then, is separating out these two sets of rules - or "guidelines", as they might more properly be called.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 11, 2010, 10:02:51 PM
The idea is to master the craft asap because when you've done all you
know to do, it will be easy to adapt to new practices. I feel like I'm
hammering my head against a rock, so I have to share something with
you, comrades.

For ten years I refused to write by anyone else's standards. Period.
The things I produced within those 10 years still sit in my files, gathering
dust, reminding me of my own foolishness. They're unsellable for two or
three reasons. (1) I refused to conform to those who knew what they
wanted to buy. (2) I thought I could change the market. (3) I didn't
select my outlets BEFORE I wrote the document. (Huge secret to success.)

I'm here to tell ya... I learned the hard way, and I wouldn't wish it onto
any of you. And the kicker was this - when I finally "got it", I couldn't
believe how much faster my writing grew.

Ten years of my life down the toilet. Sweat and tears. Discouragement.
A bitter well to drink from, my friends.
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 12, 2010, 07:15:27 AM
As a tutor myself, now retired, I always went with the philosophy that you never stop learning.

You can never say you have learned it all now.  Personally I'm enjoying myself and if I get published then that's great.  I suspect one day I might, yet on the other hand I may end up self publishing so I have the book in my library in the house for my future grandchildren.

I am enjoying myself and that's important.  I will certainly try to go down the publishing route and have found an agent who wants me to get back in touch, but it doesn't mean a thing until the book is finished. So in the meantime I will continue to keep the learning process open.

Do we ever 'get it'? I know that some published authors confess they didn't know how on earth their book got published.  

Lin x

Lin x
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 12, 2010, 05:58:23 PM
No, we never "get it" in the sense of learning it all. That's what I love about writing.
It's the same as music. No one can plummet the depths. I just meant that I understood
(at last) what I had been taught. Good point.  :)
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: Lin on October 13, 2010, 06:41:07 AM
Sorry I can't continue this debate I have to go to England today on an urgent mission - see the Coffee Shop.

Back soon

Lin x
Title: Re: How should I punctuate this?
Post by: deborahowen on October 13, 2010, 12:53:25 PM
Have a great trip, Lin. Be safe.