My Writers Circle

Poets Corner => Review My Poetry => Topic started by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 09:01:21 AM

Title: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 09:01:21 AM
they’re like that .
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Amie on November 11, 2009, 09:31:36 AM
Nah. I totally disagree with this. When I first came to this site, I used a screenname, and it was for security. The reason being that on a previous site I'd used my real name, and combined with the fact that my city was in my profile and other information I'd given out, someone was actually able to track me down. It really freaked me out, and it was a couple of years before I was able to put my real name (even just the first one) on a forum. (I've since chilled out and decided that using my real name can't hurt, as long as I keep my yap shut about other things like where I work and the area of town I live in and so on ;) )

Your logic just doesn't hold up - because also lots of people use a screenname but then post their real names (including surname) on their poems. and what about all the people who claim to have had their (often appalling) poetry published. I'm sure they did get published, but do you think they did it under the name 'MadWebPoet' or whatever? And the most critical bit of evidence - even people who use screen names instead of their real names can respond (and often do) as if their works are pure genius that cannot be tampered with. That doesn't suggest shame to me at all.

I think you've taken a personal dislike of screennames and extended it into a generalisation that suits. I don't think it's accurate at all though.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 09:35:45 AM
even people who use screen names instead of their real names can respond (and often do) as if their works are pure genius that cannot be tampered with. That doesn't suggest shame to me at all.



i disagree.  that proves my point.  they THINK their stuff is pure genius, but deep down inside they know the truth.  that's why IAMART will continue to post his or her schlock.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: indar on November 11, 2009, 09:38:44 AM
Don't you like indar a whole lot better than linda? I think it sounds foreign and mysterious. If we can't play "let's pretend" on the internet what good is it?
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 09:46:25 AM
Don't you like indar a whole lot better than linda? I think it sounds foreign and mysterious. If we can't play "let's pretend" on the internet what good is it?

well, the point is, there's a ton of people out there calling themselves "writers" and "poets", when in point of fact, that's exactly what they're doing...playing let's pretend.  and the only one they're fooling is their self.  i know that's hard.  but it's the truth.
jy
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Amie on November 11, 2009, 09:58:55 AM
Mmmm. I guess this is one of those 'agree to disagree' situations. I still think that anyone who calls themselves 'PoetMan' does so because he thinks he's a poet. He doesn't know anywhere, not even deep down, that really he's CrappyDoggerelAndShiteyRhymesMan.

And then there are people who use screen names because they don't want internet nutters tracking them down and are ultracautious. And then there are people like Linda, who, as she says, choose a name that they think sounds cooler than their real name (I have a lot of sympathy for that. It's only recently that I've stopped hating the name Amie ;) - but even if you don't actually hate your name, you might like the chance to use one you find more interesting sometimes).

And okay, yes, there are also those who might be ashamed or worried that their poetry isn't good enough. But those are usually the ones who deregister 5 seconds after someone tells them their poem isn't perfect, so you tend not to see much of them.

I think the majority of people use screennames instead of their real names for reasons other than you've stated in your poem.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 11, 2009, 10:16:24 AM
'course, john's making a poem, not a policy statement, but i have to agree with amie that most of the brillpoetman types out there are doing it just because they they're so stuffed full of themselves they can't leave off advertising the fact.  

john's point that pompous nommiker types may hide an inner insecurity is interesting, and possibly accurate, but it's too professional-psychologist and house-of-mirrors for me.  

i am not commenting about friends of mine like actpoet who just happen to have screen names.  because they're friends, i'm sure they do it for the right reasons.

amie's other point, about women being afraid that some stalker will actually track them down, whew, i am sure that plays a role.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 11, 2009, 10:23:24 AM

My screen name is Vienna, simply where I live.

cheers

Richard Dalton


but I think some screen names are there to be hidden behind or "give an air of mystery" which i think is sad! Like I told a colleague of mine no matter how many tattoos, piercings you have, nevermind the green hair with a black stripe, a boring person remains a boring person.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: indar on November 11, 2009, 10:35:33 AM
Quote
but I think some screen names are there to be hidden behind or "give an air of mystery" which i think is sad! .

Eeeek.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 11, 2009, 10:41:03 AM


eek as much as you want lol ;D

as we say it's just my humble opinion:(Very 'umble, very 'umble Master Copperfield. ...)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 11, 2009, 10:42:18 AM
Hm, which name sounds more made up, "Vienna" or "Richard Dalton?"  I would have to say the latter.  Right out of a James Bond movie, wouldn't you say?  Hm?
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 11, 2009, 10:46:03 AM


eric, I am one of the "Dalton Brothers"........retired from robbing banks etc a peaceful life here in Vienna know what I mean ;D
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 11, 2009, 10:47:49 AM
Hah!  Of course, I should have known!  Cheers.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 11, 2009, 10:49:16 AM


cheers eric
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 10:50:27 AM
screen names don't bother me (much), it's those gr8wrytr things that get me.  and you're right.  they're ALWAYS very defensive when they get a crit that's real.  and they'll invariably respond: "i've posted things all over the net and people always love my stuff".  to which i think "yeah, but have you ever really competed?  ever ONCE submitted something to a magazine somewhere?"  i know lots of guys...lots of REAL writers who absolutely refuse to call themselves "poets" just because they don't want to get lumped in with the crowd.  interesting, huh?
gotta run.
john
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 11, 2009, 10:55:53 AM


seem a bit angry today John? what's up lad?
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: oxymoron on November 11, 2009, 11:12:27 AM
Interesting discussion.

I chose oxymoron because I simply like the word. I also love the word serendipity.

Sometimes a username is just a reflection of an individual, besides what's in a name anyway? I could write my name: Sumeet S (ugly as it is) but it doesn't change as to how I respond as 'oxymoron' - at least for me any way - I respond and write poetry just as I would with or without my real name attached - of course when I publish I will use Simi S (its a little less ugly).

Now I've broken the rule of never revealing your real name on the internet (God knows what someone can do with it).  At least no knows my last name  =D Most sites ask for a username because of safety reasons - not because of 'insecurity'

8 years back, I used to have the screen name devilish angel (now to me that sounded cool - at the time), but looking back now - it really means nothing, just a 'cool' way to have some identification.

The only thing that bugs me about usernames are the ones that have ebonics or slang written all in them, like Mantofuckwit or GangstaNav ..and also - lil shorty ghetto princess - =)

Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Lew Charles on November 11, 2009, 11:13:22 AM
I think we can all agree there are various reasons why people use a screen name, and one of them is John's - hell, sometimes I wish I'd used a screen name, ha ha. But I guess the poem's about more than that, it's about the bigger picture of poetry on the net.  
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: indar on November 11, 2009, 11:42:11 AM
Lived the first 60 years of my life in Minnesota but I just went to the bank robbery re-enactment in northfild this past summer. Ah those daring young men in their dusters on wild horses, six shooters blazing. Early on in my career as a poet (about 4 months ago) I wrote a poem that had six-shooters in it, I did. John, I'm convinced that if I keep plugging away I WILL learn how to write poetry but why would I submit something to a competition now? Wouldn't that be an act of hubris as much as calling myself Mam-I-am-bic? PS I love these names you're all coming up with. (up with which you are coming?)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Amie on November 11, 2009, 11:47:53 AM
(up with which you are coming?)


I think current usage panels, which are veering away from steadfast insistence that you cannot end a sentence with a preposition, would say that 'that you are coming up with' is the better form, on the basis that the complete verb would be 'to come up with'. If you really hate ending a sentence with a preposition, you'll have to find another verb that means the same thing ;) (eg 'inventing'?)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 11:48:06 AM

seem a bit angry today John? what's up lad?

no, just passionate.  i hate seeing poetry ruined.  make no bones about it.  people see the most hellacious poetry in the world being praised to high heaven and these writers BELIEVE it and so they continue writing badly and therefore have no reason to improve and should there ever come a day when they DO try something legit, they're in for a rude awakening.  i've said enough.  kinda stirred the pot with this one, i guess!
gotta run.  i'm shampooing the rugs!
 
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: twisted wheel on November 11, 2009, 12:34:04 PM
like the poem john

midnight candle
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 03:55:28 PM
sometimes even the obvious needs to be stated.  additionally, just yesterday i was talking with my publisher about the pros and cons involved with using the net to attract potential buyers for one's book(s).  it's a fine line you dance.  it DOES attract a good number of buyers or potential buyers for mine or anyone else's books that are out there.  just yesterday i learned my publisher had an order from Romania...a few months ago on of my earlier books was ordered from Iceland.  You can't get that kind of exposure without the net. and that would absolutely never happen if i were posting anonymously.  but, the other side of the coin is that it exposes my work to people who are content to read those poems that i choose to post on the net.  like i said, it's a fine line and something that i'm always concerned about.
take care.
john
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: indar on November 11, 2009, 04:40:44 PM
Turn it around John: if you didn't post on the net under your own name how many people who are content to read your offerings there would buy your book? Don't forget that you are also making educated readers out of a certain percentage of would-be writers. I, for one, have come to realise how difficult those "easy" poems of yours are.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: twisted wheel on November 11, 2009, 04:41:49 PM
Turn it around John: if you didn't post on the net under your own name how many people who are content to read your offerings there would buy your book? Don't forget that you are also making educated readers out of a certain percentage of would-be writers. I, for one, have come to realise how difficult those "easy" poems of yours are.

the truth
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 04:49:54 PM
Turn it around John: if you didn't post on the net under your own name how many people who are content to read your offerings there would buy your book? Don't forget that you are also making educated readers out of a certain percentage of would-be writers. I, for one, have come to realise how difficult those "easy" poems of yours are.

exactly!  i mean, the part about a lot fewer people would be aware of my writings were it not for the net.  i can't BEGIN to tell you how the internet has helped me and a lot of other published writers reach new, untapped audiences.  that kind of proves my point.  kinda.  i think.  has anyone ever visited the site poetrycircle.com?  it's a serious site where new people are encouraged to use their real names and i'd say the vast majority comply.  the great UK poet (he's one of those few people that i would actually call poet) regularly struts his stuff there.  he uses the site as kind of a workbook, to get the kinks out of his poems before they go into his books.  although, if you asked me...his work NEVER has any flaws.  he's a real modern master.  man, we've had a really interesting conversation here, all started by that one stupid little poem.  way cool.
john
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: indar on November 11, 2009, 05:11:22 PM
 :)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 05:12:49 PM
:)

back at'cha!   ;)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: twisted wheel on November 11, 2009, 05:31:26 PM
would poetrycircle.com be beneficial for me john? i'm starting out and it states that writers need to be experienced.  :-\

but how is one to learn without seeing how others iron out kinks and cut crap
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 11, 2009, 06:05:51 PM
poetry circle can be tough.  the editors there (and i'm one of them, although i only signed on with the proviso that i only have to participate when and if it strikes me.  the other editors pretty much try and do something every day.  i can go for weeks without a word) ...like i was saying, the editors there can be very hard and are not above deleting a post if it's absolute crap.  there's even a spot called "rejected poems" that only the editors have access to.  but the editors are sharp.  many of them have worked in and around publishing and know their stuff.  however, getting advice on one's work from someone of the calibre of Milner Place is priceless!  please don't leave HERE, because there's a lot of good advice and intelligent observation to be found here, as well...it's always a wise thing to not put all yr eggs in one basket.
take care.
john
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: twisted wheel on November 11, 2009, 06:09:45 PM
i wouldn't leave here but i can take rough too. i may have a look and see how it goes.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 11, 2009, 06:46:08 PM
I tried poetry circle out, posted my Carp Fishing poem.  I worked on that one pretty hard, got a good reception here.  At PC, one person didn't get it, one had a minor and incorrect grammatical correction, one said it wasn't a poem at all but a piece of short fiction.  It seemed like I had to explain myself over and over, which of course is not good.  That's as far as I remember anyway.  I resigned and came back here.  I am sure it works well for some people, but I get more useful reviewing here.

I also tried a different site that had some very good writing.  A friend of mine got into some sort of minor differences with the mods and was banned.  I got sick of that and came back here as well.

Just my experiences, others may differ.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Biola on November 11, 2009, 11:36:52 PM
Don't run John!
I agree with Amie, I have used a combination of my name and my company name on my blog for the simple reason that I get daft letters! Here on MWC, I wanted to be honest about what I can and cannot do for I actually wanted to learn how to write never mind that I have written hundreds of plays, I have rarely been able to post one there as I just read to understand what is on the other side of the world. Vienna does something my northern brothers do here, they use the names of the towns as their surname and when I saw his name I assumed so. Some screen names might be protective and others might just be salve to one who feels insecure. I must be honest though about something, there are different ingredients to make different dinner so I hesitate to consign anyone's writing to the bin. If he carries anything within him/her, ultimately he will learn either from knocks, or from humility which is sadly lacking in most of humanity today.The sky is wide enough for all birds, the swallow as well as the eagle.
biola
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Spell Chick on November 12, 2009, 08:09:25 AM
Very interesting thread. I came to read the poem for two reasons.
1. It was written by John, but even if I knew him here as TwinkleToesPoet, I would know the name meant I was going to find something good in the link.
2. I was intrigued by the title.

I've stayed for the conversation.

I would like to point out that men and women see the world differently. Women tend to need a layer of security because the world can do a little more damage to them, should the world decide. So women putting their whole name on the web can be dangerous (says the person whose whole name goes up with every post). I know I'm taking a risk with that.

It is also true that writers - not just poets, mind you - come here having been told by the unwashed masses, the hoi paloi, their high school teachers, that they were just the greatest thing since sliced bread. And then - WHAM - they are slapped in the face with reality. They find people who demand correct spelling and punctuation, which sends some of them into a tailspin, let alone requiring their work be readable, engaging, well-written.

I tend to agree with John's premise. They use some big powerful sounding name to hide behind, part as smoke screen (first impressions make a difference. There have been studies showing a more favorable response just by starting out a list on a positive note rather than a negative one - even if the list includes the same words) So the smoke screen - see me as a great writer. And then the fragile, frightened ego wondering if they really do measure up and getting outrageously angry when their work is deemed less than perfect.

My own screen name refers to my absolute fear of the misspelled word and a hint to my gender. I tend to write forcefully and without some clue am often mistaken for a man. That irritates me no end. Women really are people, too.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: twisted wheel on November 12, 2009, 09:37:48 AM
Quote
Women really are people too.

no one told me :o :D
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: mouselady on November 12, 2009, 05:48:22 PM
the great UK poet (he's one of those few people that i would actually call poet) regularly struts his stuff there. 

What, there's only one, in the whole of the UK?  Who is he?

I went to the site, but couldn't see Simon Armitage's name*.

Mouselady
(aka Sheila North)

*not that I think he's necessarily the best in the UK, but he's very good
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 12, 2009, 05:50:08 PM
nope, Milner Place, hands down.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: DGSquared on November 12, 2009, 06:36:18 PM
<--When I believe my work can hold it's own, I will use my pen name with pride. Until then, I hide behind the square. So, I tend to agree with you John.

I am struck by the stark simplicity of your words and how they pack such a powerful punch.  So many times I read poetry that sounds like spewed word vomit. I too am, or rather, I am too guilty of such regurgitations to use my own name with pride...yet. ;)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 12, 2009, 07:27:41 PM


I am struck by the stark simplicity of your words and how they pack such a powerful punch.  ;)


how kind.  thank you!
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: DGSquared on November 12, 2009, 07:44:42 PM
I'm relieved you took it as the compliment it was meant to be. You are quite welcome.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 12, 2009, 07:51:20 PM
I think there are few words that would be a higher compliment to a contemporary poet like John.  But wait, my dog is banging on the door!
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: oxymoron on November 12, 2009, 08:01:38 PM
We can't generalize that individuals who don't use their real name when posting are indeed hiding because they are afraid of the criticism they may receive. If i posted under my real name, which I generally do, it wouldn't really make a difference if i received criticism from anyone on this site. Most likely,  I will never ever meet you in person, and if I ever do, all I could do was to either thank you for the time you took to comment on my poems (even if I felt that you had a stick up your ass) - or just sneer away. In either case, it doesn't deter me from writing the crap I may write, or the good stuff that I may write.
Personally, anyone who posts something whether under pseudonym or real name - has the equal potential of posting something ugly or beautiful - regardless if there is a computer screen allowing me to hide - criticism will hit me all the same, with or without a mask. At one point, some great writers and poets wrote under pseudonyms (albeit for different reasons).
As for people posting 'crap' and thinking it is great - have been misguided and I believe it our job to bring reality to them..well I shouldn't say our - I'm still learning myself. Tough love people!

clarification: ('you' in the general sense - not anyone particular!)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: DGSquared on November 12, 2009, 11:18:00 PM
I think there are few words that would be a higher compliment to a contemporary poet like John.  But wait, my dog is banging on the door!
Did he bring beer and pizza?  The dog, I mean. ;)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: herron on November 13, 2009, 02:36:29 PM
Hmmmm.  I always use my name, even when the creative things I write are only mildly north of doggerel. With my photography, I tend to only show the good stuff, but I'm more comfortable with that and feel I know what the good stuff is. I freely admit that I think I need more help with the writing, at least on the creative side. I can hold my own with essays. But good, constructive criticism never bothers me (although unexplained cheap shots will)!
  ::)

Did he bring beer and pizza?  The dog, I mean. ;)
If the dog brings beer and pizza, I want the next pup in the litter!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 13, 2009, 07:07:02 PM
You know, H., I think some of your photographs are just beautiful.  I like the trees a great deal, for instance.  Not too crazy about the fence post and haven't looked deeper into your portfolio, but several of  the other early ones were stunning I thought.  

But one you say could have been stunning, yet it was simply interesting.  Let's look at it.  You call it "Detail" in your web page, a close-up of the inside of a flower.  A lovely flower, the stamen in complicated equipose, but also having a dynamic; it would not stay like that for long.

Below it you append a short essay about momentous world events in flux, the salient but little details giving us all we could really grasp of the moment.  In this light, the detail of the flower is a poem or the start of a poem, and a very good one, about the reality on the ground of the forces of history on their march.  We have seen great movies like this, Bogie etc. caught in the jaws of war, and so on.

Then you make the metaphor even more interesting, with your comment about not bothering to go inside to get your tripod so you could make this a truly special picture.  You just took the photo with a hand held camera, you say out of laziness.  Poetry is much like that.  You need to have your tools in hand at the moment, do what you have to do to complete the image, hone it right -- for that instant, once presented in exactly that way, will never come again.      
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: DGSquared on November 13, 2009, 08:44:55 PM
Eric, how'd you get to be so damned eloquent?
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 13, 2009, 09:08:52 PM
Aw shucks, Deb.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 13, 2009, 09:10:22 PM
for my money eric is a poet not necessarily for what he writes...no, a poet is what he IS.
and eric just plain IS
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: eric on November 13, 2009, 09:19:18 PM
thank you john, seriously. 
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 13, 2009, 09:25:51 PM
thank you john, seriously. 

back at ya, man.
jy
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: sideshunter on November 14, 2009, 06:31:48 AM
i love it when we all "go off on one". four pages worth, damn fine. i like milner place as well. i happen to think Brendan Cleary is better, so is Ann Sansom, but its like comparing hondas with triumphs, cricketers with footballers, etc. i mean, does Mr. Place(wonder what HIS real name is?) Think he compares to big ian mac? its SO subjective.(though never anything goes of course). JY rant on pen names looks funny when you realise his fav poet uses one. xxjoe the sideshunter. ;D
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 14, 2009, 09:34:32 AM
Milner Place is the dudes real name.
at least that's what's on all his books.
Caminante is my favourite.
in his recordings (and he's done a few) he sounds like the voice of god.
i've told him i will never appear on a stage with him...ever.
it'd be grossly unfair.
he's the man.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: herron on November 14, 2009, 10:37:33 AM
You know, H., I think some of your photographs are just beautiful.  I like the trees a great deal, for instance.  Not too crazy about the fence post and haven't looked deeper into your portfolio, but several of  the other early ones were stunning I thought.  

But one you say could have been stunning, yet it was simply interesting.  Let's look at it.  You call it "Detail" in your web page, a close-up of the inside of a flower.  A lovely flower, the stamen in complicated equipose, but also having a dynamic; it would not stay like that for long.

Below it you append a short essay about momentous world events in flux, the salient but little details giving us all we could really grasp of the moment.  In this light, the detail of the flower is a poem or the start of a poem, and a very good one, about the reality on the ground of the forces of history on their march.  We have seen great movies like this, Bogie etc. caught in the jaws of war, and so on.

Then you make the metaphor even more interesting, with your comment about not bothering to go inside to get your tripod so you could make this a truly special picture.  You just took the photo with a hand held camera, you say out of laziness.  Poetry is much like that.  You need to have your tools in hand at the moment, do what you have to do to complete the image, hone it right -- for that instant, once presented in exactly that way, will never come again.      

Thanks, Eric.

That's why I like photography so much. You capture an instant that will never come again ... and there's something very pleasing to me in doing that, and doing it well. My blog has never really gotten off the ground, and I have so many more images that I could post.

I also have a lot of commentary to add on my view of the world, that I enjoy tying to the images. I'll have to get busy with it.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: genevie on November 14, 2009, 11:43:58 AM
I know this discussion is over but you know it took me two years of thinking and playing with my name to get it right so I am quite proud of it. 
I use V and Genevie. 
V is my anglophone name
and Genevie is my francophone name ( but I use either or. It dont matter if I am writing in french or english.  I use my name to close my poem)
But anyway my real name is Genevieve
and I like genevie because it means `'I dont live` and I think thats poetic and my name V means peace and everyone is already using it so Im already popular.
Anyway, I just wanted to share because I am one of those who think not only my poetry is good but also have the best poet name too so... there.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: herron on November 15, 2009, 10:55:18 AM
sometimes even the obvious needs to be stated.  additionally, just yesterday i was talking with my publisher about the pros and cons involved with using the net to attract potential buyers for one's book(s).  it's a fine line you dance.  it DOES attract a good number of buyers or potential buyers for mine or anyone else's books that are out there.  just yesterday i learned my publisher had an order from Romania...a few months ago on of my earlier books was ordered from Iceland.  You can't get that kind of exposure without the net. and that would absolutely never happen if i were posting anonymously.  but, the other side of the coin is that it exposes my work to people who are content to read those poems that i choose to post on the net.  like i said, it's a fine line and something that i'm always concerned about.
take care.
john
I enjoyed John's poem that started this thread, but am ambivalent about the reasons folks use a pseudonym for their user name. There are a lot of valid reasons for people (male or female) to be leery of using their real names and location info on the internet. If you've ever been burned by it, you'll always appreciate the unease people feel.

John's comment above made me want to add my own opinion, since I used to spend a great deal of time trying to create and produce marketing idea for folks, in all media. For a long time it was tough to convince companies that social media, such as Facebook, Twitter, etc. were valid marketing tools. But they are finally becoming accepted, although they are still not always properly usd.

As John says, it's a fine line.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Victor on November 17, 2009, 12:15:19 PM
The internet seems a very touchy subject.


Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: herron on November 17, 2009, 01:18:20 PM
yeah, every time i post a poem that has anything to do with the internet, i get tons of responses.  my most violent (in the various sites where i post on occasion)were in response to the following poem:

contrary

to
popular opinion,

the
internet

has ruined
poetry

for
the world.

it has
fooled

too many
people

into
thinking

they
can do

this.




LOL!!  ;D   Digital cameras seem to have done the same thing for photography.  8)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Spell Chick on November 17, 2009, 04:00:15 PM
John, that's perfect.  :D
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Conanthedoylarian on November 17, 2009, 06:03:44 PM
So, the argument is that people using screen names are hiding their real identity because they're ashamed to say who they are?

Roll up John Smith.  Try getting that id. on almost any established site.  And what a distinctive name to use on your books.  It'll really stand out from the crowd.

And so to many more.

Look at the copyright notices on the books you buy.  Notice how many copyrights are held by someone other than the author indicated on the cover? Or, could it be a nom de plume fronting for a name more ordinary or perhaps judged less marketable?

And in today's society of self-trumpeting p.r., why would we expect anything different online?

As for arrogance in screen names, well there's plenty of that slushing around the world, whether under a pseudonym or not.

DISCLAIMER: Written under a pseudonym, clearly, because I'm deeply ashamed of everything I say - or is it just that my name is so common I've decided to use something distinctive?

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: oxymoron on November 17, 2009, 06:50:50 PM
So, the argument is that people using screen names are hiding their real identity because they're ashamed to say who they are?

Roll up John Smith.  Try getting that id. on almost any established site.  And what a distinctive name to use on your books.  It'll really stand out from the crowd.

And so to many more.

Look at the copyright notices on the books you buy.  Notice how many copyrights are held by someone other than the author indicated on the cover? Or, could it be a nom de plume fronting for a name more ordinary or perhaps judged less marketable?

And in today's society of self-trumpeting p.r., why would we expect anything different online?

As for arrogance in screen names, well there's plenty of that slushing around the world, whether under a pseudonym or not.

DISCLAIMER: Written under a pseudonym, clearly, because I'm deeply ashamed of everything I say - or is it just that my name is so common I've decided to use something distinctive?

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

I liked this. It made me laugh and I agree with you.
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: bowmore bill on November 17, 2009, 07:13:05 PM
they’re like that on the net,

on those
poetry sites

they all
have names

like
Musegal

and
PoeMan

and
Rhymer,

announcing
who
or what
they think
they are.

i really
don’t think
they’re doing it
for security.

i think
they’re
ashamed.

deep down
inside

they know.

and they don’t
want their names
being known.

so, they’re
stuck…

caught in a world
of their own
design.

too
scared

to sign
their names.

and
too proud

to
admit it. Hi John, how does it feel to put yourself in the line of fire.
Yoy are a braver man than me Dunga Din. _{don't know if i got the spelling right.}
However having said that, I am one of those who thinks of himself as a writer an sometime poet.
Deep down i know however, that although i write it means just that.
My computer name, Bowmorebill comes from my love of Bowmore silnge malt, one of Islay's best.

Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: John Yamrus on November 17, 2009, 08:26:05 PM
So, the argument is that people using screen names are hiding their real identity because they're ashamed to say who they are?

Roll up John Smith.  Try getting that id. on almost any established site.  And what a distinctive name to use on your books.  It'll really stand out from the crowd.

And so to many more.

Look at the copyright notices on the books you buy.  Notice how many copyrights are held by someone other than the author indicated on the cover? Or, could it be a nom de plume fronting for a name more ordinary or perhaps judged less marketable?

And in today's society of self-trumpeting p.r., why would we expect anything different online?

As for arrogance in screen names, well there's plenty of that slushing around the world, whether under a pseudonym or not.

DISCLAIMER: Written under a pseudonym, clearly, because I'm deeply ashamed of everything I say - or is it just that my name is so common I've decided to use something distinctive?

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

no, conan, the point i was trying to make was that if people were proud of their poetry they would publish and post under the same names. (i don't care in which name they claim their copyright) if Mark Twain (S. Clemens) were alive today i'd be wanting to see him publish and post under mark twain not posting under "wurdman".
   it's just a peeve of mine.  it IS interesting to me, though, how it bothers so many people for me to suggest they pull aside the mask.
    did i spell peeve right?  it looks odd to me?
     anyway, i'm done in this thread.  it's carried on long enough, don't you think?
take care...
John
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Conanthedoylarian on November 18, 2009, 05:30:30 AM
no, conan, the point i was trying to make was that if people were proud of their poetry they would publish and post under the same names. (i don't care in which name they claim their copyright) if Mark Twain (S. Clemens) were alive today i'd be wanting to see him publish and post under mark twain not posting under "wurdman".
   it's just a peeve of mine.  it IS interesting to me, though, how it bothers so many people for me to suggest they pull aside the mask.
    did i spell peeve right?  it looks odd to me?
     anyway, i'm done in this thread.  it's carried on long enough, don't you think?
take care...
John

I know a few authors who are household names both here and in the US.  Some of them contribute to fiction sites anonymously using odd screen names for several reasons.

1. It could be damaging to some careers to be seen writing that kind of material, yet they want to try their hand.
2. It could compromise their publishing deal.
3. Given the current "celebrity culture", the work would be treated differently if their identity were known.
4. They get more honest feedback from everyone involved.
5. Freedom of speech - surely you can call yourself what you like?
6. They want to branch out and see if their efforts in a new genre are accepted without the gloss of celebrity.

All of these seem like good reasons to use pseudonyms.

John, you appear to talk up your own work here quite frequently, and write many poems about how bad others work is.  Why not let the less able make a stab at marketing their stuff too, even if it is only through a naff name?

Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 18, 2009, 05:38:12 AM

hmm the discussion is hotting up! I am waiting for a post from Ann Grier! ;D
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Conanthedoylarian on November 18, 2009, 06:27:12 AM
hmm the discussion is hotting up! I am waiting for a post from Ann Grier! ;D

Eliza Ann Grier the first freed slave to practice medicine? ;)
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: Vienna on November 18, 2009, 06:33:09 AM


no the two girls ann grier and anne grier along with the irish girl ann O'Nymous
Title: Re: they're like that on the net
Post by: herron on November 18, 2009, 09:04:33 AM
didn't I see them with Sue D. Num?