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The Coffee Shop => The Coffee Shop => Topic started by: bobby digital on June 04, 2008, 02:30:23 PM

Title: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 04, 2008, 02:30:23 PM
Your thoughts?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ken100 on June 04, 2008, 02:32:49 PM
Yaay!!!!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ken100 on June 04, 2008, 02:33:39 PM
I mean, come on, Laurel and Hardy would have made a better job of the Presidency than Bush.
Let's hope Obama makes it all the way.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: SteveJ on June 04, 2008, 02:47:02 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/lslneon/obama08.jpg)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Amie on June 04, 2008, 02:56:42 PM
He was my preferred of the two candidates, but it's hard to feel very strongly about these things as all US presidential candidates seem incredibly sterile and post-processed. I'm not sure politicians do much of anything anyway, other than send people to war. All the big decisions are made by multi-nationals and their well-funded lobby groups and press agents, as far as I can see ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: SteveJ on June 04, 2008, 03:00:07 PM
It's about time a cat was in the White House.

Yup, as Sat hinted, Ruby should be President.  ;D (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/lslneon/aaaaaaaaacat.gif)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Amie on June 04, 2008, 03:03:02 PM
here here!  ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: SteveJ on June 04, 2008, 03:14:50 PM
 ;D The Onion website had an amusing piece on it recently, titled:

Obama Practices Looking-Off-Into-Future Pose

As the 2008 presidential election draws closer, Democrat Barack Obama has reportedly been working tirelessly with his top political strategists to perfect his looking-off-into-the-future pose, which many believe is vital to the success of the Illinois senator's campaign.

When performed correctly, the pose involves Obama standing upright with his back arched and his chest thrust out, his shoulders positioned 1.3 feet apart and opened slightly at a 14-degree angle, and his eyes transfixed on a predetermined point between 500 and 600 yards away. Advisers say this creates the illusion that Obama is looking forward to a bright future, while the downturned corners of his lips indicate that he acknowledges the problems of the present.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/obama_practices_looking_off_into

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 04, 2008, 03:22:32 PM
All the big decisions are made by multi-nationals and their well-funded lobby groups and press agents, as far as I can see ;)

That's the thing he has refused all donations from special interest groups and lobbyists. The only Candidate in history to ever do that (according to cnn.)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Amie on June 04, 2008, 03:32:31 PM
Well, that makes me even more positively disposed toward him. As I said, I find it difficult to get worked up about the American elections, but I hope he wins. He might you know. (I think the biggest risk is that the voters might be frightened off by someone with actual opinions instead of motherhood and apple pie soundbites) - when I was on holiday in Mexico recently I saw a lot of US news, and they basically took any tiny thing he said and tried to turn it into the basis for a smear campaign ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeanette on June 04, 2008, 03:42:09 PM
I know nothing about US politics, but I think that this time it's really interesting.

The choice for the next president, the most powerful position in the world, was until today between a woman, a black man, and a scarred Vietnam veteran. At last we seem to be moving forward and away from the old middle class male stereotypes.  Fascinating stuff.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ken100 on June 04, 2008, 03:50:34 PM
I still think these two would make a better job of it.
(http://www.corrieblog.tv/laurel%20and%20hardy.jpg)

At least when the country finally went down the pan, Ollie could turn to Stan and say, "Well, that's another fine mess you've gotten us into, Stanley." ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: rewh2oman on June 04, 2008, 04:01:54 PM
It's all political SPIN!

And regardless whom the Candidate is/was, someone is always trying to dig up dirt on someone else in order smear them, regardless. I don't trust any of them anymore. And by-the-way, here in the USA, the Middle-Class is disappearing, all but gone. The old adage ("the poor are getting poorer" and "the rich are getting richer") has never been more evident than now.

Shame, we have Politicians now instead of Statesmen / Stateswomen. 

I liked Dennis Kucinich's idea of creating a "Department of Peace". Maybe that's why he never had a chance.

P.S.
Laurel and Hardy, we could only be so lucky. It's more like Beavis and Butthead!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 04, 2008, 04:24:08 PM
I wish we could just stand up and tell the president to sod off - whoever it is. The only times when Britain really needed help the states were not there.

Not doing very well in Europe fighting Hitler and nazism on our own and a handful of pilots. Where were they. Nowhere until they lost half their fleet because of mismanagement.

The falklands - vascillating once more.

When they want us,we stand with them and take the backlash.

I couldn't give a toss who gets the job just give me one prime minister who has the balls to say 'goodbye'.

 >:(

Ps. George w bush may come across a s a blundering twat but he's probably the most dangerous man on this planet.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on June 04, 2008, 05:10:30 PM

I couldn't give a toss who gets the job just give me one prime minister who has the balls to say 'goodbye'.

 >:(

Ps. George w bush may come across a s a blundering twat but he's probably the most dangerous man on this planet.

Couldn't agree more MC !
If only we did have a PM who had the balls to do that!
This old country of ours is sick to the eyeballs of war (we've had more than enough over the centuries)..
I voted for Tony Blair in 1997 but when he followed Bush's coattails into Iraq I kissed him goodbye and good riddance!
Its a pity that the US Politicians and ours haven't got the guts to have a go at a real tyrant like Robert Mugabe and save the Zimbabwean people from complete starvation.

But if Barack Obama does get the presidency, I fear for him. Theres bound to be some nut case out to get him.I wish him luck!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: DC on June 04, 2008, 06:07:52 PM
There was a sketch on 'Spitting Image' years ago where they were having a hallowe'en fancy dress do at the White House, and Ronald Reagan turned up as himself. When questioned about his lack of 'scary' fancy dress, he replied:

"I'm a seventy-odd year old former B-rate film actor with my finger on the Nuclear button; I can't think of anything scarier than that!"

He obviously didn't suspect a future with GW...

As for Obama, I didn't know about his having refused donations. Good on him for that, he's just gone up in my estimation. But as Ellie says, if he gets in, I fear for him, there are too many 'nutters' out there. I haven't forgotten JFK.

Just one point on the comment about America 'not being there' for us when we fought the Nazis alone.

Not quite true, they did supply us with arms and provisions; ask any of the few remaining who survived the Atlantic Convoys. Roosevelt did want to help, but was prevented from doing so more overtly by the isolationist and 'neutrality' policies then in force in the White House. And American warships were active (as in actually fighting) on anti-submarine patrols in the Atlantic before Pearl Harbour.

Dave.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 04, 2008, 06:15:00 PM
Quote
Not quite true, they did supply us with arms and provisions; ask any of the few remaining who survived the Atlantic Convoys. Roosevelt did want to help, but was prevented from doing so more overtly by the isolationist and 'neutrality' policies then in force in the White House. And American warships were active (as in actually fighting) on anti-submarine patrols in the Atlantic before Pearl Harbour.

Dave.
True and maybe for another thread. My point still stands Britain stands alone ehen we need help. Britain is GWB puppet. And Ellie is right - Someone should kick Mugabe's arse.

I don't know too much about Obama because I just haven't cared this time around. How can anyone care about a country's voting system when it managed to elect GWB - TWICE!!!

All the best to whoever wins. I can't see the attraction in the 21st century in wanting that job. They got a lot of clearing up to do :(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 04, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
MIdnightcandle,

I don't believe you understand what was going on in the US while your country battled Hitler without our help.  FDR completely understood your situation and he knew we had to get in there and join the fight.  Trouble was, the average voter in this country was dead-set against involvement and FDR was facing an election.  England should thank its lucky stars FDR was won the election and pulled the US kicking and screaming into the fray.  Even then had it not been for US actions that provoked Japan and led to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the general population would never have understood the true danger facing the world. 

I personally apologize for the fact that we were slow, but I take offense that so many died and their sacrifices are not appreciated.

As for Obama, he has neither the experience or the judgment for the job.  However, there were no good choices when the field narrowed to McCain, Clinton and Obama.  At this point it probably doesn't matter.  This country has reached a point of no return.  We are in big trouble.  Britian, in my opinion, is in the same sinking boat. 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Paw on June 04, 2008, 10:05:11 PM
No candidate is perfect.  Some are far from perfect.  (Insert pictures of Bush and Nixon here) However, most are not as bad as they are painted in th press and in the other party's ads.  Campaigning in the US out of control, too nasty and devoid of competent media fact checking.  Even if the competition were between Mother Theresa and Ghandi, by November there would be ads and news reports making them look like crooks. 

I'm a cynic about the details of this process but an optimist about the results.

In spite of the smoke and noise, both major US parties somehow picked their best available candidate.   (I started out last December as a Hillary C. supporter.)  Both Obama and McCane have more integrity, are better listeners, and can work across party better lines than their competition, yet they differ significantly on important issues and therefore offer a real choice.  Americans are fotunate this year to finally be able to pick between two such people.


Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 05, 2008, 12:17:39 AM
Morning nightowl. Thanks for your comments. I must sound angry but I'm not. I do appreeciate that the USA finally joined the fight all those years ago and did sacrifice themselves. The war would never been won without it.

May the best man win ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: simonjjames on June 05, 2008, 03:50:48 AM
Personally, I think America is a Glorious country full of breathtaking landscapes, world changing ideas and some of the most inspirational people in history. Some of my most personally poignant and uplifting moments have been in America, standing on Ellis Island, standing on top of the Empire State building after a particularity very shitty time etc. I have all the time in the world for American people, they are our brothers and sister in many more ways than simple ancestry can explain.

However, the heroic and stoic individuals of America aside we cannot brush over our the rampant Governmental / Corporate looting that has gone on on the back of conflicts and wars. The initial Gulf War and the current war is about Oil, I'm sure we all agree, the subsequent slaughter of American, British and allied troops due to a lack of Plan B is nothing short of a war crime that Blair, Bush, Cheney, etc should be indicted for. Zimbabwe has been mentioned and Darfur also, why have we, and I mean America and the UK, not gone in and sorted out the genocidal actions of the administrations and their militia. Why? Because they no longer have anything to offer (since the Brits looted them both in the early 1900s) and they will not destabilise the World order.

I am saddened by Governments that do not represent the conscience of their countries but are driven by their own agendas of posturing, power and greed. I do not believe that Bush is representative of the American people and Brown certainly isn't, I can only hope that Obama's talk of change rings true with the populace and they can look past his inexperience and in some cases where their prejudice still guides them, the colour of his skin.

We are all world citizens and America is still the most powerful nation on Earth so it is all our business who gets in as America's President will dictate the tone of the next decade. Bush is already hamstrung by congress and seems to be slipping aggressively into dementia (God Speed on that one) so if McCain gets in, I think he will carry on the interventionist foreign policy and send MORE troops to Iraq and Afghanistan condemning the US to 4 more years of lost sons and daughters.

I truly think that Obama is all our only hope. And I mean hope.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeff on June 05, 2008, 06:19:04 AM
Obama's first act on getting the nomination was to pledge unconditional support for Isreal. Sounds like business as usual.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Amie on June 05, 2008, 06:22:56 AM
Politicians promise anything (although I appreciate that Obama has apparently given other signals which suggest integrity). Bush not only promised, but put in writing, his unconditional support for the recognition of the Armenian Genocide (for which the historical evidence is just as strong as for the Jewish Holocaust) - but once he was president and considered the political advantages in his war on terror to having Turkey as an ally, that promise was not only dropped, but he actively worked to overturn Congress' decision to acknowledge the genocide.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Wurdsmyth on June 05, 2008, 08:36:55 AM
I work for a political party (although I don't vote for them! - I'm a copywriter in a print department) and it's been fascinating for me to watch all the political shenanigans from America - especially having experience of the 'inside' of politics.

The problem that I can see is that, while ever politicians are courted so much for their celebrity instead of their ability, politics will always attract people who are more interested in the advancement of their own careers. I see it all the time; the people who genuinely work hard tend to be local councillors who have no ambitions outside of their own towns or villages - meanwhile, you can spot a 'career politician' a mile off, with their 'big' personalities and their penchant for photos of them outside the Houses of Parliament...

Unless we get away from the cult of celebrity in politics, I think there will always be a gap between what politicians promise and what they actually achieve.  :-[
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 05, 2008, 09:41:56 AM
Thanks, Midnight.  All is forgiven.  I am sorry the US wasn't there to help sooner, but politics being politics what can I say?

Wyrdsmyth has laid it out accurately.  The world has changed radically and politicians are celebrities now who put their own personal ambition far ahead of the wishes of the voters.  Worse yet, they have the full support of the media.

Obama has likely won the nomination thanks to gullible young people with no sense of history, easily led by a silver tongued politician who he tells them he stands for change.  What the gullible fail to notice is that there is no plan for this miraculous change.  On one front, healthcare, he does seem to have a plan.  He tells us his plan is to make health care in the US "more affordable", thus all can have it.  Now there's a plan, albeit impossible. 

From where I sit here in the middle of America, what I hear is that nobody is happy with the choices this time around.  The same was true when I voted for Gore and then for Kerry.  Both were pitiful choices but Bush was no choice at all.

When Harry Truman left the White House more than a half century ago he took a cab to the train station and paid for his own ticket back to Missouri.  When offered money to speak after leaving the White House he refused saying that what the organization that wanted him to speak was trying to buy was not him, but the presidency, and the presidency wasn't for sale. 

I'm not sure who the last decent president was but I can tell you it has been a while. 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 05, 2008, 10:41:28 AM
Quote
On one front, healthcare, he does seem to have a plan.  He tells us his plan is to make health care in the US "more affordable", thus all can have it.  Now there's a plan, albeit impossible. 


People laughed at the NHS but we've enjoyed its benefits for 60 years.

I think what I hate most is the fact that british mp's are starting to use the same tactics as the US. I don't want to see slimy politicians, spin-doctoring, etc. I would respect any MP or senator who stood up and said 'this is a crock of shite and I'm gonig to change things'

But that's for an ideal world.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Paw on June 05, 2008, 11:11:03 AM
The question isn't "where are the honest and competent politicians?"

The question is "how do we elect honest and  competent politicians and keep them honest after they're in office?"

The system too often filters out the best candidates because each honest statement alientates an interest group.  It filters out comperence because to many voters view the deep understanding demonstrated by nuance as "flip floping."   As long as voters reward spin and slogans and believe BS ads by special interests, poular soundbites will drive the selection process. 

The success of the Neocon/Religious right war on science, suported by right wing commentators, is the best example.  Last night, for example, Glenn Beck, a prominant conservative comentator, dismissed Obama's Tuesday speech as being great words but empty for including such ""nonsense" as referirng to rising seas.  His audience just accepts Beck's rejection of a proven fact.   (I could site similar examples of Keith Oberman, a liberal comentator, ignoring inconvenient truths.)

So how do we redesign the system to reward integrity?  We might start by figuring out how to get truth to the electorate so that they can recognize dishonesty.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 05, 2008, 11:27:24 AM
Paw,

You are right on. 

Has anybody read Charlie Wilson's War?  The movie is good but it doesn't begin to tell the entire story.  Read this book and you will be completely and totally amazed at the power of certain elected individuals simply because they have managed to get on certain committees--those that really control what goes on in this country. 

Yes, I blame Bush for the Iraq war, but when you get right down to it, the President of the US isn't nearly so powerful as a few Congressmen. 

And our govenment isn't really "of the people and for the people" any longer.  Personally, I see no way it can ever change.  Those in power are too strong and the media watchdogs have sold their souls just like the politicans--journalists have abandoned their posts for the glitter of celebrity.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Paw on June 06, 2008, 11:30:22 AM
Haven't read it yet.

Obama's anouncement that the DNC won't take special interest money and McCane's dismissal of several lobbyists from his campaign staff are important symbols, but substantively only token steps.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 06, 2008, 04:11:27 PM
Haven't read it yet.

Obama's anouncement that the DNC won't take special interest money and McCane's dismissal of several lobbyists from his campaign staff are important symbols, but substantively only token steps.


I disagree...

I've been following the race since Obama's win in Iowa and to date, he hasn't accepted any money from lobbyists or special interest groups. Doing so now would obliterate his integrity...

I watched a speech of his on CNN where he describes this elderly lady (I've forgotten her actual name but she was in the audience) and goes on to tell of the sacrifice she made by her losing two of three sons to 'the war on terror' and how poorly the government dealt with her after. And the policies that forced her out of her home and into poverty...

Yet she donated $1.34 to his campaign. And it's facts like that that have Republican party worried!

America is knee deep in a recession. And the Government/Bush have the nerve to blame it on the £0.01 pence rise in the price of rise and flour. Or China's emerging middle class??? When the fact is they have been spending '12 Billion USD A week' on The 'War to control Iraqi oil' 'War on Terror'

NOTE: 12 Billion USD is the is the figure quoted by both Congress and the Pentagon...

It is easy to sit back and say "I don't care blah blah blah" or "They are all the same etc etc etc" But the cold fact is this... If Mccain wins we're all in F*****! Britain is so closely intertwined with the states that a win for Mccain will be a disaster for us all... We wont just border on a recession we'll be in one.

Just google Bradford and Bingley/Northern Rock or better yet, look up G. Browns latest stealth tax or the 4-11% drop in the value of your home.

bobby
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 06, 2008, 04:48:22 PM
Bobby, I just want you to know that I care deeply. Its this feeling all around me, people who I know who don't care about politics. I care about the next President and hopes he's a better man than the twat who's been there for 8 years. I remember a friend of mine who went to live in the states in 1990 when she got married. Her husband to be said he hoped that Bill Clinton didn't get in. Apart from a few extra marital thingys he was a good president and left the economy in a pretty good condition. George dubbya bush - what can I say. It isn't exactly a hard job to follow but a hell of a lot of pieces to pick up.

And it is worrying for Britain, I'm sitting here scraping by to feed my wife and 3 children and I don't even know if I will have a house next year. I haven't been this worried in all my 12 years of marriage. And those who I know say that politics don't affect them are dumb. They better wake up and smell the coffee.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 06, 2008, 05:14:46 PM
I'm sorry to hear that midnight...

perhaps I can provide a few minutes of 'comedy' at George dubbya's (as you called him) expense.

The laughter has been added to the vid...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j76bLFbpuLQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=j76bLFbpuLQ)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 06, 2008, 05:21:59 PM
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL :D

I'll remember that as my tv is requisitioned ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on June 06, 2008, 05:41:44 PM
Are we sliding into world recession?  Was it Bobby said that America is in one?
Hub watches Fox news and it was said on there that 28 million Americans are reliant on welfare for help with food etc.

Every day I go to the supermarket and see the price of basic foods steadily on the rise.
We are cutting back on jouneys because of the price of fuel...in fact we are buying food every other day to save on petrol.

Funny isn't it though, although we are finding it harder to manage (both in the U.S and UK) we still have feelings for those worse off than ourselves, as in Darfur, Burma and Zimbabwe ?(I had family there once when it was a thriving country)

When I walk around the shops I often think of poor devils who don't have food or clean drinking water..I look round at the food available to me which I can afford to buy and I thank God that Im so lucky.

I don't know much about WW2, only from what my late Mother told me, but this I do know, she and my late Father were forever grateful for all those young Americans & young men from the Coomnwealth, who fought and died for the freedom of the world.

My Mum & Dad were young people during those terrible 6 years of war living in London and suffered the Blitz of 57 (I think) days & nights continuous bombing....my Mother always spoke of the young men who fought so bravely/the Normandy landings etc to bring peace back to the world....and she kept in touch with 2 young New Zealander soldiers and wrote to them whilst they were in France.

Both we here in Uk and you who live in America live in democracys, we have the freedom of voting for our leaders, we can eat, drink clean water and live in decent houses.Lets not forget that and be thankful ;)



Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 06, 2008, 05:41:58 PM
Yup he is kinda hilarious!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 06, 2008, 06:08:45 PM
I agree ellie...

Whenever I watch the news I always end up feeling slightly lucky. Lucky that I was born here and am able to enjoy freedoms that many around the world can't fathom. The freedom to speak independently and without retribution. Freedom to do and say as I please (within reason  :D)

This thread for instance... Social/political commentary would be banned by 99% of regimes that rule the less fortunate. 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 07, 2008, 12:10:04 AM
I agree ellie...

Whenever I watch the news I always end up feeling slightly lucky. Lucky that I was born here and am able to enjoy freedoms that many around the world can't fathom. The freedom to speak independently and without retribution. Freedom to do and say as I please (within reason  :D)

This thread for instance... Social/political commentary would be banned by 99% of regimes that rule the less fortunate. 
absolutely
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on June 07, 2008, 12:13:12 AM
Both we here in Uk and you who live in America live in democracys, we have the freedom of voting for our leaders, we can eat, drink clean water and live in decent houses.Lets not forget that and be thankful

But people do forget that, and it's a shame.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 07, 2008, 12:17:09 AM
I'm proud of it. Said it before on this forum - we have (in my opinion) the best democracy in the world. Thank you Oliver Cromwell. :)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on June 07, 2008, 04:49:31 AM
Regarding American democracy, the people who voted at the beginning of the primaries had the choice of all the candidtes running for their respective parties.Those who had their chance to vote for the repesentative of their party had the choice between who was left, not the same choice as those at the start of the race.To add to that some delagates where not, purposefully, given the media coverage, if any, as others.The bias is set.
Of those who are left as the only options for the presidency none have addressed the huge financial black hole which the USA is spiralling into. The Clinton presidency set the agenda for what is now the demise of the USA as the economic super power which the country once was.The inevitable effect of Alan Greenspan's policies are now coming to the fore. What some had thought was a new paradigm, an unstoppable and relentless growth based purely on debt and credit has come to ruin the USA.
  As house prices decline and owners ability to repay both the rising interest on the mortgage and the extracted equity owed on the devalued property retails sales and employment will decline. World wide the dollar value is decreasing and yet at the same time demand for fuel and food products increases in the rising new economies, this will put another strain on the USA purse as prices (inflation) increase.The outcome of deregulation ( the Greenspan/Clinton era)  and it's present day effects  has left a world wide distrust between banks and other financial institutes. The effect of this on municipal bonds and the reduced tax revenues will be a crippling blow to local municilpalities.  One California town has already declared bankruptcy. The fact that this is all happening now, yet with some economic slight of hand the use of the word recession has been avoided, and  has not been addressed by any candidate, that would be of extreme concern to me if i were a USA citizen or resident.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on June 07, 2008, 12:29:32 PM
I'm proud of it. Said it before on this forum - we have (in my opinion) the best democracy in the world. Thank you Oliver Cromwell. :)

 ;D hear hear MC!

Since I left the Labour party (I did it in protest at us going into the Iraq war) Ive been flummoxed as to who I would vote for..and sometimes I say I won't bother to vote. But then I remember that people died to save,keep our democratic freedom and I feel duty, honour-bound to go out and vote.
I may be in a minority here but if someone came along and said they were standing for a republic then I would join that party.
I wouldn't want anything nasty to happen to the royals ( I think the queen has done her job well) but just for them to step down. I don't even think we need a president; that a Prime minister could fullfil  duties as a head of state.
But Im probably in dreamland with that one ;D
I was looking at a picture of the High commisioner of Fiji down on his knees in front of the queen and I thought 'isn't it time we ditched all that?'..
Ive always seen everyone as equal and hate all that forelock tugging..its looks so old hat in the modern world. I certainly wouldn't bow,curtsy to anyone.
Ive had folk argue with me that the royals bring in tourists. I don't believe that..I think tourists come here for our history, old buildings, our theatres,museums..not a bunch of unattractive royals.
According to the British tourist board the London Eye is now London's biggest attraction..surpassing Big Ben..and millions flock to it.
Oops sorry Bobby..Ive gone off track slightly here ..apologies ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on June 07, 2008, 01:18:27 PM
Quote
One California town has already declared bankruptcy. The fact that this is all happening now, yet with some economic slight of hand the use of the word recession has been avoided, and  has not been addressed by any candidate, that would be of extreme concern to me if i were a USA citizen or resident.


Just waiting for it to come here :'(
This is scary stuff. I think its time I wrote my novel
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 07, 2008, 04:02:37 PM
No need to apologize ellie. It's always cool to hear your perspective.

Apparently Hillary Clinton is going to endorse Obama sometime today... 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Gyppo on June 07, 2008, 07:30:06 PM
I don't normally do politics, but...

I heard a bit of this on the radio today and feel; a) a little bewildered, and b) rather sickened.

H Clinton has spent the last few months doing everything she could to discredit B Obama.  This is of course the way politics is played these days.  To hell with having any solid  or even innovative policies of your own, just attack the other candidates.  It makes for far better theatre.

Now, today, she says Obama is the best hope for her party and the country, and is obviously fishing for the Vice President's job.

Some might call this pragmatism, some might dress it up as 'being the best thing for the country', but I can't see it as anything but blatant barefaced political hypocrisy.  It's about as credible as if Winston Churchill had suddenly ordered the RAF to start bombing the UK to help the Germans bring the WW2 to a speedy conclusion.

It could of course be that I just have no idea what squirms around in a politician's mind, and for that I'm eternally grateful.

Gyppo   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ken100 on June 08, 2008, 09:48:56 AM
Okay, for those of you who are interested, here's a fantastic piece on why Hilary should not be the Democratic vice presidential candidate. Just follow the link...

http://www.barryeisler.com/2008/06/hillarys-exit.html

And here are the introductory paragraphs...

With some reluctance, I offer a few thoughts on Hillary's defeat, particularly on the notion that she deserves to be, and that Obama should make her, the Democratic vice presidential candidate.

I'm reluctant because Hillary as vice presidential candidate and as vice president is such a self-evidently bad idea that sensible people know it simply will not happen. So I find myself in the slightly weird position of discussing something that in my mind is being discussed only because it's being discussed, like Paris Hilton being famous for being famous.

Okay. Let's first dispense with the idea that Clinton "deserves" the vice presidency.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 08, 2008, 06:30:58 PM
Hey Gypo

A couple of things...

Obama an Hilary both have solid and innovative policies, which differ greatly from each other. Obviously they are all founded in the dem school of thought but, they do differ greatly in terms of their policies.

Secondly, the reason why Clinton has praised Obama after berating him is in short, because she is a Democrat and wants to see a Dem take office above all else. And, after such a divisive campaign, she's taking steps to unify the party. Hence the endorsement.

By the way she has praised him all along. Obviously the media highlight the criticism and merely comment on the 'praise' but she has been praising senator Obama during and even before the nomination race.

bobby
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on June 08, 2008, 08:47:22 PM
Quote
Some might call this pragmatism, some might dress it up as 'being the best thing for the country', but I can't see it as anything but blatant barefaced political hypocrisy.  It's about as credible as if Winston Churchill had suddenly ordered the RAF to start bombing the UK to help the Germans bring the WW2 to a speedy conclusion.

Did you know that Churchill knew about the Coventry bombing. He decided that if they evacuated, the Germans would know we'd cracked the Enigma.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Gyppo on June 08, 2008, 08:50:04 PM
Did you know that Churchill knew about the Coventry bombing. He decided that if they evacuated, the Germans would know we'd cracked the Enigma.

Yes.  He was a hard man.  A real War Shaman.

Gyppo
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Gyppo on June 08, 2008, 08:52:16 PM
Thanks, Bobby.

That's what happens when someone with only half the story ventures into waters where he rarely goes ;-)

Best wishes,

Gyppo
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Amie on June 09, 2008, 03:17:45 AM
By the way she has praised him all along. Obviously the media highlight the criticism and merely comment on the 'praise' but she has been praising senator Obama during and even before the nomination race.

Mmmm. Perhaps. and perhaps one can lay all the blame at the feet of the American media. But the coverage I saw when I was in Mexico (pretty much constant, every time I turned on the news) was so incredibly negative - every 5 seconds it seemed they were trying to accuse him of being a terrorist or worse. I didn't see the return attacks on Hillary (although I may have just been lucky to miss that part). She could have taken the high (high? well, at least not sunken) road and said, "let's make this about policies rather than making ludicrous accusations about Obama's patriotism or attacks on his wife", but she did not. Anything she says now short of making an apology for those campaign tactics seems a little ...  false and inappropriate.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 10, 2008, 02:29:03 PM
The New York Times recently reported that Cindy McCain was advised to/then sold off over $2 million in Saudi/Sudan assets. Most of which are related to oil companies  ::) And others are speculating the amount that John McCain has invested in similar oil companies...

Considering what we know about Bush and his Saudi/Sudan/middle eastern funding. The resulting policies and their effect on the American people/the rest of the world. I find that fact kinda scary.

I'm saving to buy myself an Alfa Romeo 147 GTA (GTA because they look gorgeous in comparison to the regular 147) and It'll be my first car. But if McCain gets in, I don't think I'll bother.

Mine will be black or silver!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Alfa_Romeo_147_GTA.jpg/800px-Alfa_Romeo_147_GTA.jpg)
 

And I think I might have to donate to the Obama campaign fund to get it!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 11, 2008, 08:33:50 PM
Frankly I seriously doubt that Hillary is seeking the VP nod.  She has a strong foothold in the Senate and if she sticks there she has every chance to become one of the strongest senators in her party and in the Senate. 

There has been talk of Obama appointing her to his cabinet in an important job.  If this is true and if such an appointment should come to pass, she would likely have far more visibility and far more influence than if she got the VP nod, assuming he is elected, and then pretty much fades into the woodwork.  Vice Presidents in this country have been generally known to be totally powerless.  One of them said the most important tasks he was given was attending state funerals.

I also think Obama would be intimidated if she was VP.  It is hard to argue that he is as expierence or knowledgable as she, and Bill would be far too visible for him I'm sure.  Remember too that she got the majority of the popular vote!

There has been some speculation that she might accept a Supreme Court appointment.  Personally, I would like to see this.  We've had a sad turn of events in the US of too much religion in politics which has influenced apointees.  The court is male-heavy as usual, and with Bush's appointees, which have been most likely chosen in the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade, a pro-choice appointee would be welcomed by most of the US population.

Somebody earlier indicated our recession/gas prices, etc. were the fault, or at least were started, back when Bill Clinton was president.  My feeling is that they started long before Clinton's eight years.  I put the beginning back to Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty.  It was a terrific idea but unfortunately has become a deep black unending money-sucking hole.  We have generations of families here now who have little incentive to work and who feel entitled.

As for universal health care, which both Hillary and Obama claim they will give us--good luck!  Again, a terrific idea, but both plans will take money the US does not have and universal health care has to be paid for.  You have to remember that what politicans SAY they will do while they are trying to get elected has little to do with reality.  At least McCain has the good sense not to promise what he cannot deliver when it comes to health care.

Even Obama and Hillary telling us they will get us out of Iraq is little more than a terrific vote-gathering idea.  We are not going to be able to turn our backs and walk away as much as we all would like to see that happen.  There is too much at stake in that part of the world.  And even with the best intentions, how likely is a total withdrawal from Iraq?  Currently the US has half a million military personnel stationed in various countries around the world.  We still have soldiers in Japan, in Germany, in South Korea and a dozen other places.  WWII ended in 1945 so do the math.  We've been in Germany and Japan now for 63 years! 

As for the big mortgage problems over here, my sympathy is limited.  We have become an entire nation of people who plan poorly, if they plan at all, who pull out credit cards when they know they are spending money they do not have, who have bought houses they could not afford to begin with, and who signed variable rate mortgages with their fingers crossed.  We need a wake-up call in the US.  Maybe it is upon us.

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: The Orphan on June 14, 2008, 09:21:30 PM
I gotta vote again this November. I say "gotta" because if I don't, I give up my right to bitch about the outcome, and considering the past seven years six months, my right to bitch is about as life affirming as my right to breathe.

And just as it has been every four years for me over the past almost forty, the same ugly thoughts come to me once again.

First off, we might vote for a President, but we end up electing an Administration.  I have a number of issues with Mr. Bush, and they're likely not at all different from the ones many of you have regardless of citizenship. When the arguably most powerful man in the free world farts, we all smell it. In alot of ways, though, I find him likeable enough. Probably would like him as a next-door neighbor. Have him over for barbecues, talk about baseball with him. But that would likely be it.

Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and Gonzalez...  a bunch of the other moral neanderthals he brought along with him? Toss 'em all in Gitmo, melt down the keys. Cheney? Nothing I could say anywhere on the 'net that wouldn't have Homeland Security knocking on my door. I don't trust a single one of those self-serving nimrods any farther than I could spit them...  and they're the ones, the "trusted advisors" and the like who we know about. I can't for a minute believe that there aren't a few big time oil men or defense contractors or Wall Street sodomists who can't hit a single digit on Speed Dial and affect our national policy in one way or another.

All too often, the President is merely the public face of the decisions being made. He's not the thought behind them, he's not the motivations skewing those thoughts, and he's not even the rationale sanitizing those thoughts. He's just a mouthpiece. I don't have too much of a problem with that, actually: I don't anticipate the leader of any powerful nation could be realistically expected to be capable of calling all the shots without relying on the input of others vastly more experienced or educated that he/she on a myriad of complex issues.

I just want to be able to trust the folks who supply that input, and that goes beyond the Vice President who we also vote for.

Look at Cheney. In the past, we kind of expected the VP to show up at State Lunches and Photo-ops whenever the Prez had other pressing business to attend to. For eight years, now, Bush speaks and Cheney's lips move.

Second problem: politicians run for President. Statesmen stay where they often belong: the Senate or the House. Go back and think of some of the real earth shakers we've had: Tip O'Neill, Howard Baker, Pat Moynihan, any number of others who have been most effective for all of us by ostensibly representing their direct constituents. Some people who should be in out government never made it into politics to any great degree. Likely never cared to play the game. So it's a matter of priorities, and when you're going for the Biggest Prize of All, the focus seems to be too centralized: what can I do to keep people less pissed off than the last guy, and how do I assure myself another four years?

Senator Obama is a breath of sanitized air, if not quite fresh. Makes it easier to not have to even remotely consider voting for Senator McCain.

Still not anyone I would pick on my own, but my guys gave up on politics long ago to help our country grow to its fullest potential. They knew where and how they would be most efficient and productive and met the challenge with bi-partisan dedication and a sense of patriotism not defined according to party platforms.

Hope we catch-phrase obsessed, sound-byte suckling Yanks don't let the rest of you down.

P. S.          I'd rather have Billary as VP then as Secretary of State, Attorney General or Supreme Court Justice, and I can't help but get the feeling that bowing out so graciously has Obama at least slightly indebted to the Clintons.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 16, 2008, 10:04:47 AM
Let's cut to the chase . . .

> The Irish are such clear thinkers:
>
> "We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you are
> even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

> On one side, you have a witch who is a lawyer, married to a
> lawyer, running against a lawyer who is married to a witch
> who is a lawyer.

  On the other side, you have a war hero
> married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer
> distributorship.

What are you lads thinking over
> there?"
>
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 16, 2008, 02:27:38 PM
Let's cut to the chase . . .

> The Irish are such clear thinkers:
>
> "We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you are
> even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

> On one side, you have a witch who is a lawyer, married to a
> lawyer, running against a lawyer who is married to a witch
> who is a lawyer.

  On the other side, you have a war hero
> married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer
> distributorship.

What are you lads thinking over
> there?"
>


O-k-e-y - D-o-k-e-y  ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on June 16, 2008, 02:28:33 PM
I agree with nightowl.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 16, 2008, 03:16:11 PM
I have a question for our American members...

What's the deal with fox news???

I've seen a few fox news clips on youtube and to me, 99% of there coverage is degrading and laced with negative connations. For instance, they referred to Michelle Obama as "Obama's baby momma" and joked live on air that someone should "knock off Obama." Yet they refuse to say anything negative about McCain.

Are they funded by the Republican party? Because I'm not sure how they get away with it... While I'm aware of the constitutional right to "freedom of speech" Fox seems on the verge of sending out a daily state sponsored message/view/commentary...

And oddly enough, continuous state sponsored messages/spin is something I (we all) have come to expect from countries and states ruled by dictators/regimes...

Not in the "land of the free!"

Slightly confused  ::)

bobby
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 16, 2008, 03:31:07 PM
Fox does not have a good reputation over here.  It's kind of the tabloid station like those sleazy rags they sell near the checkout counters in the grocery stores--you know, the ones that say some woman had a baby fathered by an alien or the like?  But evidently they do have a sizable following.  And evidently they have sharp lawyers and know where the line is and how not to be sued. 

On the other hand, it has seemed to me that NBC, CBS and ABC are enamored with Obama and practically lick his boots.  In the end it probably doesn't matter.  When Tim Russert died the other day my husband was working in the garage and Russert's death shocked me.  I had a lot of respect for the man and I thought he was fair in his reporting and questioning of politicians.  My young neighbor was standing in our garage with her two toddlers who always make a beeline for my husband when they see him outside.  I delivered the sad news and learned that the neighbor, a college graduate, had no clue as to who Tim Russert was. 

I notice too that when we go out to pick up our newspaper each morning that almost nobody takes the daily paper.  I don't know, of course, but I would imagine they don't read Newsweek, Time or World Report either. 

But they are going to vote and most of the young will probably be voting for Obama because he has a nifty slogan:  Change!

Was it always this way?  I don't remember a time even when I first was old enough to vote that I wasn't interested in who was running and what they stood for.  Of course, back then, some of them actually stood for something.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: The Orphan on June 17, 2008, 02:42:04 AM
Let's cut to the chase . . .

> The Irish are such clear thinkers:
>
> "We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you are
> even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

> On one side, you have a witch who is a lawyer, married to a
> lawyer, running against a lawyer who is married to a witch
> who is a lawyer.

  On the other side, you have a war hero
> married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer
> distributorship.

What are you lads thinking over
> there?"
>


What makes you think most of us arethinking?
It's fairly well split down the middle these days:
Half of us have Faux News doing our thinking for us, the other half turns the responsibility over to Oprah.

And don't, on your very life and the lives of those who follow, ever acknowledge that something the other guy said might make sense. You're free to disagree with him, of course, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make sense.

It's all about The Parties, not about the nation. You'll rarely see a border drawn quite as decisively as the Liberal / Conservative, Democrat / Republican, Left / Right line dividing us, except for maybe the one between Heaven and Hell.

People register as Republicans to prove they're not Democrats, and others slap Obama stickers on their cars so nobody will mistake them for Republicans. Only half of us are expected to be patriotic - or is "allowed" the word I'm looking for?

The fact that the price of a barrel of oil has quadrupled since Bush took over is far out-weighed by the Blow Job That Won't Go Away, while at the same time serving as justification for totally ignoring the fact that Hillary is just as much as a sleazy cut-throat as Bill ever was.

You call that "thinking"?

If we were "thinking", we would have spent at least the past four years trying to come up with better choices than the ones we got stuck with.

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 17, 2008, 09:55:08 AM
The trouble didn't start four years or eight years ago or even back in the Bill Clinton days.  When it comes to electing a president or a senator or anybody running for a high office these days, MONEY is the name of the game.  When Oprah came out in support of Obama I figured right then he would be elected.  If she can't acutally buy it for him, she will stump for him and she has such a huge following of sheeple that I figure her help alone will get him there.

(By the way, I read that Oprah's numbers are falling.  Ah, such a shame.) (And by the way a second time, the Irish thing was nothing but I joke I thought so cute that I passed it along--I didn't write it.)

As an Independent, I have not had a candidate to choose from in so long that memory fails.  I continue to hope for another candidate with the values of Harry Truman who paid his own train fare home after he left the White House and refused to take money afterwards for speaking engagements saying, "You don't want me, you want the presidency and the presidency isn't for sale."

But even if another Truman came along I don't think it would make much difference.  The entire system is, if not broken, is very badly mangled. 

Take a look at this guy, "Joe American".  He's telling it like it is and I think he speaks for most of us out here who do THINK, READ and are INFORMED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPch2k63uj4
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 18, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
I've never been one for conspiracy theories but if you scratch the surface, you'll see that this Fox news thing gets a little deeper...

Ever heard of Rupert Murdoch? Well in short he's a billionaire whose portfolio includes Twentieth Century Fox Studio, Fox Network, 35 other TV stations, and 175 newspapers to name a few. However, the most important thing about him (to me) is that when it comes to politics, he's far-right partisan ...

Google his name and you'll find countless reports/articles accusing Murdoch of using his media empire to pull politics to the far right. And besides that, from his own admission he is a close friend of the Bush family and a staunt republican supporter.

And his association with Bush is where it gets sinister...

During the 2000 U.S general election between Bush and Al Gore, Murdoch employed John Ellis (who is G. Bush's 1st cousin) as a political consultant. In short the race was tight and it was common knowledge that the presidency would be won and lost in Florida...

On election night John Ellis/Fox News called the state of Florida for Bush early!  Knowing that other media corps would follow suit because they (the media) wouldn't want to lose their audiences/viewers to a rival networks whose reports were more 'up to date.' Regardless of the fact that Al Gore did in fact win the state of Florida!!!

Now how crazy is that? Forget the fact that Fox News is pushing a Far right agenda with R Murdoch at the helm. We're talking about stealing an election in broad daylight.

Note: I forgot to mention that the discrepancy ::)  went unchallenged because G Bush's brother was governor of Florida at the time.

In truth this is news to me. I wasn't aware this had happened because I never payed much attention to 'the news' until 9/11. When I was like "Osama Bin who?" and "Al Qieda what?" And was even more  ??? when I found out that the Bush's and Laden's family actually did billions in business together...

As to what this means for Obama? Well I'm not really sure. I'm an optimist but the above makes me cynical. Forget the republicans dude is up against an establishment/machine that stands to lose big if he is elected...

And this establishment clearly doesn't play fair!
 

 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 18, 2008, 04:24:31 PM
I called Obama dude.

lol
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: nightowl on June 18, 2008, 05:07:42 PM
What a mess we are in.  There has never been a time that I have failed to vote, although several times I saw no really good candidate to vote for. 

But this election has so totally discouraged me.  I will vote.  I believe it is my duty and I cannot pass for the simple reason that it took far too long for women to get the vote in the US. 

But that said, I'll hold my nose when I do it.  And worse yet, I've come to believe that my vote actually counts for nothing. 

As for Rupert Murdoch, you sure connected some dots, bobby.  Discouraging to say the least.  Not long ago there was talk that he was close to adding the Wall Street Journal to his stable of media outlets.  What happened?  He didn't get it, did he?  If he did, I missed it.   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on June 19, 2008, 08:21:17 AM
I'm afraid he did.

The Dow Jones had a price tag of $5 billion. But I guess when you're worth 88, 5 billion must seem kinda cheap?

As for joining the dots, the election steal was well reported/documented. And from what I understand, once they calculated Florida's electoral votes they brought it to the senate and supreme court's attention but both institutions simply let it slide ::)

?       
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on June 19, 2008, 03:38:03 PM
There was to be publication of the Florida recount, and start of an investigation in the first weeks of september 2001.The Washington Post and the New York times were to publish their calculations  of a recount yet due to certain events in the week prior they decided to rally behind the president instead. And thus the events of september 11 got the president and same party off the hook, the Florida votes and the election steal never to be raised again.
Interesting aspect of the internet is the ease with which one can retrieve and read the publications of the day, and who actually said and wrote what back then.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on July 20, 2008, 01:24:06 PM
Conspiracy theory 0.2  ::)

I haven't seen any weakness in Obama's campaign. And besides that the popular (American) belief/pools suggest that he'll be elected in November. To me, John Mccain Just doesn't seem to inspire.

Untill 'war/conflict' is mentioned...

With Iran showing off their missile capabilities to the world recently. The rhetoric of the Bush government seems far to similar to the speeches before Iraq? We've all heard that "Decommission or face the consequences" line before and that country's 'weapons of mass destruction' was limited to ak47's and a bunch of hand grenades. Yet we still invaded...

I think that in order to change the debate from policies/strategies and America itself, the republicans may just go to 'war.' Because that's the only time Mccain's words (seem to) carry any clout. And his campaign is able to portray Obama as the weaker candidate.' 

bobby


Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on July 20, 2008, 01:59:34 PM
Not wishing to be trivial, but Obama rocks!!

Tuh!!  And all we've got is stinky Brown!! :-[  And no-one ever voted for him in the 1st place!!  You guys get all the cool stuff!! :'(

Seriously, I heard his speech the other day and was blown away by it!!  This man is set to be a legend!!

*is green with envy* :(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on July 20, 2008, 05:14:40 PM
^^^

I'm British too and yup, Obama does rock  ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on July 20, 2008, 05:34:08 PM
^^^^^^See??

We're all jealous over here!!  Swapsies?? ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Don on July 20, 2008, 07:29:00 PM
Quote
We're all jealous over here!!  Swapsies??

Sure, why not?  All politicians are interchangable, nationalities notwithstanding.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on July 21, 2008, 01:52:02 AM
Quote
Sure, why not?  All politicians are interchangable, nationalities notwithstanding

Hooray!! ;D  Cheers Don!  Wow..Now we've got Obama as our Prime Minister,  and our American cousins have Gordon Brown as potentially their next president!   (I'd try to keep him hidden if I were you, he's very embarrassing andcringe worthy!!)  Yurky  :P

Wow! Obama!  Cool 8)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on July 22, 2008, 03:24:29 AM
Anybody rocks while they don't have the post. Once they get in and have to do the job ...
... There hasn't been too many who have left the office as great men.

Gordon Brown ... against forum rules but ... TWAT! I hope you can here me in Gloucester you twat. LOSER LOSER LOSER.

As long as we have a labour giovernment in this country that is the same as a tory government then people are going to start giving BNP a foothold. And who wants that?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: midnightcandle on July 22, 2008, 03:54:27 AM
I'm sorry if the last post seemed offensive to anyone but I am really angry with the way this country is treated >:( If anyone wants me to delete the above message just tell me and I will :)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on July 29, 2008, 04:13:42 PM
I have a question for our American members...

What's the deal with fox news???

I've seen a few fox news clips on youtube and to me, 99% of there coverage is degrading and laced with negative connations. For instance, they referred to Michelle Obama as "Obama's baby momma" and joked live on air that someone should "knock off Obama." Yet they refuse to say anything negative about McCain.

Are they funded by the Republican party? Because I'm not sure how they get away with it... While I'm aware of the constitutional right to "freedom of speech" Fox seems on the verge of sending out a daily state sponsored message/view/commentary...

And oddly enough, continuous state sponsored messages/spin is something I (we all) have come to expect from countries and states ruled by dictators/regimes...

Not in the "land of the free!"

Slightly confused  ::)

bobby


Since posting the above I have seen and heard some vile things from the Fox news network. To many to mention here, but the most recent was when they likened Obama to Hitler during their main evening broadcast...

But whereas we could only speculate before about fox being a propaganda machine. Ex White House Secretary "Scott McClellan" confirmed it yesterday.

Fox news busted (by msnbc): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-OpIXfXKO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-OpIXfXKO8&feature=related)

Isn't this an illegal practice?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 15, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
This vid is doing the rounds via email...

I thought I'd post it for the rocky fans among us. And for those that'd like a 5 min comedic round up of the election race so far (we tried not to laugh to hard while at work.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fNgA5xLxao&eurl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fNgA5xLxao&eurl)

bobby
 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on August 16, 2008, 09:33:41 PM
Don't want to turn anybody off with my politics.

For a long time now I've felt that something is going to turn this election on it's head. Something big. It'll possibly affect both parties, and maybe neither one will win.

For the democrats......at their convention consider what could happen if in permitting a Hillary nomination, somehow behind the scenes, she has formulated a way that she gets the overall nomination. Talk about chaos.

For either candidate it will come down to their vice pres. candidate.

Just opinion.

Harry

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on August 17, 2008, 06:40:48 AM

For a long time now I've felt that something is going to turn this election on it's head. Something big. It'll possibly affect both parties, and maybe neither one will win.
How about, the present incumbent declares a state of emergency, for whatever reason, and the election is cancelled ? Or  and attempt is made at the above, and the shtf.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 17, 2008, 05:53:18 PM
All jokes aside who does he remind you of?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY&eurl= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY&eurl=)

For a long time now I've felt that something is going to turn this election on it's head. Something big. It'll possibly affect both parties, and maybe neither one will win.

Harry

Yup I've got to agree with you. Though, after the election was 'stolen' before hand. And taking into account the unfavorable polls for Mccain (if they stay as they are Obama wins) I think it'll be war? I hope that's just me over analyzing the situation. But...
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 28, 2008, 03:43:20 PM
WoW

I've been following the Democratic National Convention and I can honestly say I've more than impressed...

Edward Kennedy's appearance/speech went beyond symbolic gesture. Hillary Clinton's, without a doubt, raised the status quo. I've never seen her inject such passion into a speech, even when she was campaign trail. Joe Biden's took the fight directly to McCain. And Bill Clinton and John Kerry both did a superb job...

And tonight Obama gives his acceptance speech.

I mean, win lose or draw (I think a draw is mathematically impossible) I feel as though this is an important moment in history. And tonight like every night this week I'll be up late watching it, taking it all in. Though I must admit, I wish I could be there to witness it first hand and gauge the reaction/impact (if any) of the people 1st hand.

bobby

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on August 28, 2008, 04:01:45 PM
I watched some of it on our Newsnight (BBC) Bobby......and I have to say that, our elections here in the UK are very dull in comparison ;D

But I have been reading (in our newspapers & on tv) that around a 5th of Hillary Clinton's fans/voters are going to vote for McCain? Is this true?
It would truly make history if Obama makes it to the Whitehouse...but have to confess, I do fear a little for his safety. Do you think I worry unduly?
elliex
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on August 28, 2008, 04:21:53 PM
I caught the speech Biden and Obama made in Illinois when they announced the vice presidency candidate. Sounded mostly like horse shit to me. They didn't make any campaign promises, it was just mindless backslapping and McCain bashing.
Hope this post doesn't offend anyone, it's just the impression I got.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 28, 2008, 04:39:56 PM
Nope it's not true...

It amazing how the media spin a story to add weight to it. When Obama won the nomination 25% of her supporters said they would either vote for McCain or not vote at all. In the months that followed the number has fallen steadily as the very same polls suggest. Besides when they did the roll call vote (for official nomination at the convention) Clinton received about 300 votes to Obama's thousands.

Though it seems some will search for any reason to note vote for him as this clip shows (some of her supporters are in the crowd but they now support Obama.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVHZHuyVeio&eurl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVHZHuyVeio&eurl)

But to me what is significant was her speech. I mean, not only did she urge (unreservedly) her supporters to vote for him. She also questioned those who refuse to by asking them "Were you in this just for me or for America." She then went on to explain McCain's senate record on things like equal pay for women.

But whilst watching the speech what I found significant was that you could actually see the change in her supporters. Many brought their Hillary placards and were waving them frantically at the beginning of her speech but by the end were waving the democratic Unity placard instead.

I counted only four Hillary placards at the end of her speech... 



   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 28, 2008, 04:55:36 PM
I caught the speech Biden and Obama made in Illinois when they announced the vice presidency candidate. Sounded mostly like horse shit to me. They didn't make any campaign promises, it was just mindless backslapping and McCain bashing.
Hope this post doesn't offend anyone, it's just the impression I got.

Why would it?

Though I disagree. I watched the speech you were talking about and Obama did bash McCain. But on the issues... See the thing is McCain's camp know they can't win a debate on the issues. As his senate record shows he voted with  George Bush 95% of the time. And since Bush's approval rating is at 33% they dare not start a debate on policies.

By the way in the 8yrs Bush has been president he has widened the gap between rich and poor to the level not seen since the 1920's (a fact Clinton highlighted in his speech last night.)

Though what I find Hilarious is this. If you go to Obama's website you'll find page after page of new policies and ideas to help America. Go to McCain's and you'll find page after page of negative stuff about Obama. No policies or ideas... Just a site set up to assassinate Obama's character.

?   



Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Don on August 28, 2008, 06:00:59 PM
Quote
Sounded mostly like horse shit to me.

Agreed.  It's horse shit on both sides.  If we stuck these morons in a barn where they belong, we could rent out the White House and Congressional Offices as retail space and start paying down the national debt in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 28, 2008, 06:09:04 PM
lol

Don, what do you think the rental income would be? I heard Washington real estate had dropped by 17% in value in the past year.

Perhaps they could turn it into a museum or something?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Don on August 28, 2008, 09:56:39 PM
Quote
I heard Washington real estate had dropped by 17% in value in the past year.

That's only if you factor in the crack-house neighborhoods that ought to be bulldozed.

Museums are notoriously poor earners.  One thing I do know is rental income and Sam Walton would pay big time for a prime Pennsylvania Avenue address.  So would any of the other big-box stores. 

Imagine a chain-store pharmacy renting the Senate Cloak Room--customers would be able to buy their Petpo-Bismol in the very spot where the former high rollers used to trade political favor for envelopes of cash and cocaine.  The possibilities are endless.  ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on August 28, 2008, 10:12:01 PM
That's only if you factor in the crack-house neighborhoods that ought to be bulldozed.

Museums are notoriously poor earners.  One thing I do know is rental income and Sam Walton would pay big time for a prime Pennsylvania Avenue address.  So would any of the other big-box stores. 

Imagine a chain-store pharmacy renting the Senate Cloak Room--customers would be able to buy their Petpo-Bismol in the very spot where the former high rollers used to trade political favor for envelopes of cash and cocaine.  The possibilities are endless.  ;D
Get your nausea cures from the place that gave it to you. Ironique?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 28, 2008, 11:02:58 PM
Just watched Obama's speech. My honest reaction...

Goosebumps.


?

Night night Mwc
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeff on August 29, 2008, 03:00:28 AM
Obama or McCain?

Doesn't matter so long as Bush can't run again.



Anyone wanting a plot for a thriller try this.... a two term president engineers a faked terrorist attack so he can justify canceling the election and staying in power for the duration of the emergency.   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on August 29, 2008, 08:52:43 AM
I wouldn't trust any politician..they will say anything to get into power.

I joined the Labour party in '97 and actually did door to door to promote them. But I ditched the party when Blair followed Bush into Iraq.

I was in my front garden just now and one of the 'war' jets(as I call them), flew so low over our bungalow I could almost see the pilot. It shocked me so much that I stumbled and fell against the wall.
It costs thousands to put those jets into the air, yet our pensioners live on meagre pensions and have to rely on state handouts to keep themselves warm in winter.
Something wrong somewhere... :'(

p.s. Am I right in thinking that Obama can't do exactly as he likes (if he becomes president) but has to abide by the Senate?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Don on August 29, 2008, 10:45:40 AM
Quote
Am I right in thinking that Obama can't do exactly as he likes (if he becomes president) but has to abide by the Senate?

In theory, congress passes the laws and the president either signs them or vetos them.  Congress would then have to override the veto.  Bush signs laws and adds the codicil that he has no intention of obeying them. 

The Democrats have had a majority in congress for two years and have done nothing about this.  Instead they have spent two years whining and wringing their hands and suddenly jump to the conclusion they are qualified to run the country.  Gag me.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on August 29, 2008, 05:30:00 PM
In theory, congress passes the laws and the president either signs them or vetos them.  Congress would then have to override the veto.  Bush signs laws and adds the codicil that he has no intention of obeying them. 

The Democrats have had a majority in congress for two years and have done nothing about this.  Instead they have spent two years whining and wringing their hands and suddenly jump to the conclusion they are qualified to run the country.  Gag me.

Thanks for your answer Don ;D
Im quite ignorant on how the US government works.

As you may know,we're having probs over here in UK too. Gordon Brown is turning out to be an unpopular primeminister and Im not sure if you have the same, but we seem to be going into recession (the euro zone is said to be in recession)...but no one seems to want to use the dreaded word.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeff on August 30, 2008, 02:47:12 AM
So McCain has chosen a women for his running mate.

Am I the only one who suspects that if the Democrats had chosen Hilery Clinton for presidential candidate, McCain would have chosen a black man?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on August 30, 2008, 02:48:46 AM
So McCain has chosen a women for his running mate.

Am I the only one who suspects that if the Democrats had chosen Hilery Clinton for presidential candidate, McCain would have chosen a black man?
He should have chosen a Latino, that would've gone down a storm.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on August 31, 2008, 07:32:35 AM
Just watched Obama's speech. My honest reaction...

Goosebumps.


I'm with you, Bobby.  That speech was spine-tingling and providing some evil miscreant doesnt choose to rob not only America, but the world, of this man, I think we could be in for a great ride.
Go, Obama, go!
:D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on August 31, 2008, 08:11:33 AM
The move by John McCain was actually a stroke of brilliance. I don't know what he would have done if Hillary had been with Obama. Maybe the same thing.

Ms. Palin is down home American. Maybe the change that is needed is to whittle the professional politicians out and get citizens more involved. She's mostly been a wife and mother and decided to get busy in the political arena where she could make a difference.

This vice presidential selection was probably more important in helping people decide than in any other election. 

John McCain is up there in years and his body has taken a terrible beating and can't hold up forever. His mind is still sharp and he'll function well. It's just that anything can happen at any time, and it's important to  look at what the back up plan is.

Obama, for several reasons, unfortunately will be the target of some nut case. (race, socialist leanings, possibly even religion)  If someone is succesful then again, what's the back up plan.

Keep in mind though that Thomas Jefferson cautioned that we should be wary of anyone who aspires to hold high office. Both times he was nominated for the presidency he turned it down, but when he was elected he served because it was his duty to the nation.

This promises to be an interesting election season, that's for sure. It'll be fun to watch, and we might all learn a lot. Too bad more won't get involved in the process of voting.

I could go on for hours, but that's the gist of the way I see it.

Harry



Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 31, 2008, 12:34:41 PM
Cheers Bru  ;D

His speech really was 'something' wasn't it...

HBEgley I've got to say I disagree with you. To me, McCain's pick was amazingly misguided. His campaign/vp pick is basically an invitation to disaffected Hillary supporters, of whom there are relatively few left. For Instance, one of the most ardent Hillary groups is called puma (PartyUnityMyAss) and they've been on a campaign to sign people up to vote for McCain or not vote at all.

But even they have acknowledged that their numbers have shrunk. So much so that their website traffic which had approximately 14,358 thousand unique hits (different ips) during the month Hillary lost the race for nomination, fell To approximately 6613 unique hits in the month of August.

Note: It was a H Clinton's team/spokesman that pointed that out.

I mean when you subtract gender from the equation. Your left with a person who stands for everything Hillary does not. For instance, on important issues like abortion and gun control etc the two hold completely opposing views?  So instead of reaching out to her supporters I think McCain may have just patronized them. An argument this CNN Clip supports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPU-t_lOPw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPU-t_lOPw)

But whats most importantly here is the polls. Strategically the vp pick is supposed to give you bid for presidency a boost. But McCains numbers are unchanged... In fact he's polling worse now than he did before he picked Palin...

And if you combine that with Palin's Beauty pageant past The corruption/abuse of power investigation she's currently facing as governor of Alaska, and the potential faked pregnancy scandal that seems to be gathering momentum in political circles/news/media. You'll see that McCain may not have thought about his choice as long and as hard as he should have.

The way I see it. picking Palin was to grab headlines and nothing more. I mean lets face it, after Obama's Speech (which was viewed by 38 million in the states) he needed to pull something out of the bag. But when you consider the fact that (by his own admission) McCain had only met her once before...

By the way, the clip above shows the second time McCain and Palin had met. And whats most startling to me is McCain looks extremely nervous? I've watched him many times before and his appearance with Palin was the first time I've ever seen him twiddling his thumbs and looking as uneasy as he did. He's usually way more upbeat.

Maybe I'm just reading too much into it?       

   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on August 31, 2008, 12:35:38 PM
And if McCain makes it to the White House (highly unlikely) would you feel happy with Sarah Palin as President if/when McCain dies?  This is a woman who has been in Alaskan government - a state which is so small it could get lost in most of the states of the USA -  for 2 years?   And you think this is a brilliant move on McCain's part?  
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 31, 2008, 12:49:16 PM
lol

I didn't want to mention that but yeah. McCain is 72 and has tackled and beaten 4 bouts of cancer. He seems like a cool guy and I'm sure we all wish him well. But if something were to happen to him Palin would be president. And with little experience she'd be prone to the exact same special interest advisers that coax Bush into making decisions that favor them. The result being more war. And in particular a war/invasion/occupation of Iran...

Republicans have been heading towards this conflict for sometime now  ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on August 31, 2008, 02:49:31 PM
Ok so I was watching Palin's appearance in Pennsylvania (philly) and guess what. She got booed when she mentioned Hillary Clinton's name.

She is there solely to get Clinton's disaffected supporters but if she is to be greeted with boo's and loud grumbling for mention Clinton's name?  ::) 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on August 31, 2008, 03:08:53 PM
Bobby,

check out this link   http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html
 
I think you will find it says it all.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeff on September 01, 2008, 02:55:52 AM
Just one minor point, Alaska is not, 'So small it could get lost in most of the states of the USA.'

Alaska is actually the largest state in the USA.

Possibly you're confusing it with Nebraska?

On the other hand, I'm not sure about the populatin of Alaska. It may well be that there are so few people that they could get lost in most states.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeff on September 01, 2008, 02:59:27 AM
Palin is pro-gun, anti-abortion and believes in creationism.

Do you really want someone like that only a heart attack away from the nuclear button?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 01, 2008, 04:17:41 AM
Jeff,
you are right about Alaska's size - I was talking about population and should have stated so.
You are also right about Palin's beliefs (and a few more you didnt mention)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 01, 2008, 08:45:05 AM
Jeff I'm aparently not understanding the logic of what you'r considering disqualifying factors.

The right of each citizen to keep and bear arm is guaranteed in the constitution. I believe in large part that is what keeps the country free. Support of the constitution is a qualifying factor.

There are worse things than pro life beliefs. We'll protect tigers, birds and mice, yet it's seems to be acceptable to kill a baby. Protection of human life can't be viewed as a disqualifier.

Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution. I guess I don't understand why a person's religion is looked at for job qualifications. They tried that with Kennedy, Romny, and now Ms. Palin.

Why must one always assume that it all boils down to a nuclear option. We're not talking about a nut case like a Ted Kazynski or Charles Manson. I don't believe either candidate falls into that category.

What we have to look for is where they'll take the nation in many other areas.

As for my choice, we'll see.  I do want to see what each has to offer as a whole package. Perhaps a list of pros and cons could help factor it down.

Politics is always a touchy subject and sooo easy to play devils advocate. I really don't want to offend anyone. Picking just one point to make a decision is just so narrow.

We'll just have to see how it plays out in the end.

Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: StrayDog on September 01, 2008, 08:57:56 AM
Quote
The right of each citizen to keep and bear arm is guaranteed in the constitution. I believe in large part that is what keeps the country free. Support of the constitution is a qualifying factor.
I believe in large part that is what keeps the country free.
Many democratic countries have anti-gun laws, are you saying they are less free?

Quote
There are worse things than pro life beliefs. We'll protect tigers, birds and mice, yet it's seems to be acceptable to kill a baby. Protection of human life can't be viewed as a disqualifier.
I personally am mostly anti-abortion, these people should have been responsible. Although a case can be made for rape victims.

Quote
Freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution. I guess I don't understand why a person's religion is looked at for job qualifications. They tried that with Kennedy, Romny, and now Ms. Palin.
I believe strongly in freedom of religion, even though I'm an atheist. BUT, there is an uneven scale, Muslims are abused under the patriot act. It contradicts the point of your constitution.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 01, 2008, 02:06:53 PM
Some points to be made for the peoples right to keep and bear arms.  (less free, not yet)

1. This country was founded by men who had to fight tyrany. That right will ensure that we never again have to live under tyranical rule. In countries where this is prohibited there isn't anything stopping them in the future, at their pleasure. (Of course it'll be easier if the populace is eased into it.)

2.  With all of the resources in America it's really a wonder that we haven't been attacked. In many cases that is a cause for war. If you look at the second ammendment you see reference to a militia. That  militia is the citizenry of the nation. That is the purpose of that phrase. There was even a time early in our history that it was mandated that all males over 16 keep 1 rifle and 100 loads of ammunition.

September 11, 2001 had more firearm purchases than any other day, ever. Were those weapons used against the nation? Were they used to commit massive crimes? Quite the opposite, people were willing to defend against further attack, that's all.

On the point of religion; I'd say that remains to be proven. If such a blanket statement were true then all people of the muslim faith would have been rounded up and placed into camps. We've learned how wrong that was from our reaction in WW II, and moved on.

I hope not to offend, but am strongly opinionated. Actually political topics interest me greatly, and I've considered dabling in the non fiction arena.  Too bad I'm late for this political season.

Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 01, 2008, 02:49:59 PM
Hey HBEgley,

I see no need for you to apologize...

I'd much rather you expressed your opinion as opposed to just sitting back and harping on with the redundant "All politicians are the same" theory. Our two countries are so closely linked that what happens there in November, will undoubtedly affect us here...

 ::)

I just heard that McCain's vp "Palin" announced (today) that her 16 yr old is 5 months pregnant? I'm thinking most will see this as somewhat hypocritical given her previous comments on teenage pregnancy. Others will be cynical seeing as they waited for Gustav to dominate the news before the announcement. Perhaps she hoped the hurricane will blow away her detractors, detractors who are bound to pounce? 

It's political chess? I'm waiting for the debates to see who gets checkmate...

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeff on September 02, 2008, 03:11:01 AM
It is questionable as to whether or not there is a constitutional right to bare arms.

The second amendment begins:  'A well regulated militia being necessery for the security of a free state...'

When this was written the USA did not have a standing army so a militia was necessary. But now the USA has one of (if not the) most powerful armies in the world. So a militia is no longer necessary, so the second amendment should be repealed.

Secondly, what is a 'well regulated militia'? The national guard probably fits this description, a bunch of nuts running around in the woods blasting away at random certainly does not.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 02, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
Ok so ABC reported that Sara Palin was once a member of the AIP. Of course she denies it but the story has enough weight to be broadcasted?

McCain could have saved himself a heap of trouble if he vetted her ::)

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 02, 2008, 09:45:54 PM
Hey Bobby

As I've said before, this promises to be an interesting political season.

As to Ms Palin's daughter, well, we're not voting for her. The children of the candidates should be left out. As a father and grandfather I can tell you that you try to instill certain values in your kids. Ultimately the child will make a decision. As I see it the only way Ms. Palin would be hipocritical would be if she had her daughter get a divorce. A major test of her character will be her standing by her daughter. Been there.

I'm sure we'll hear lots of scandals, that's what makes news. We've heard our share about Obama too, but several have proven false. In the end we'll want a person of strong character who will stand by their beliefs and values. We only hope that those beliefs and values support our position as Americans.
The sad thing is the seeming indifference in such an important decision. As you said, who we select will greatly affect the whole world.


Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 03, 2008, 03:52:10 PM
I totally agree...

Families should never be part of the debate but and as far as I'm aware they are not. At least in terms of Dem's and Gop because both have stated (in no uncertain terms) that Palin's family is off limits...

It's the media that's creating the debate.

But with that said. I think the negative press Palin's been receiving will work in her favor. The bar/expectations have been set at so a low standard that tonight, at the rnc all she has to say is "Hi" and it'll be a resounding success.

As I see it the only way Ms. Palin would be hipocritical would be if she had her daughter get a divorce.

By the way, her daughter isn't married.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 04, 2008, 09:22:19 PM
Oops. didn't mean divorce, I meant abortion.

Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 06, 2008, 11:17:47 PM
Heard a rumor that they're trying to make the kids get married. May not be true, but it would be nice if the kid lived up to his responsibilities.

Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 07, 2008, 11:03:33 AM
Yup

But it's not a rumor they're to be married before she gives birth...

McCains now campaigning on "Change" which is (to me) absolutely hilarious. Considering he's has proudly claimed on numerous occasions that he is firmly behind bush and voted with him 90% of the time.

The whole thing is still interesting but if I was the dem campaign manager I'd run this add which would I firmly believe would end the campaign for McCain, Perhaps lol

A comparison between McCain's - Bush's acceptance speech would (if ran as an add) seriously dent McCain's new 'change' theme.

segment between 4:20 - 6:00 http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184111 (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184111)




 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bee_bum_you on September 11, 2008, 07:57:49 AM
Yep. He was calling Obama a celebrity in one of his campaign ads, comparing him to Paris Hilton and Britney Spears. But he's up in the polls because his VP choice is YOUNG, SPEAKS WELL, and is GOOD-LOOKING. They actually came out with Sarah Palin action figures, and you can choose between three different outfits: executive Sarah, superhero Sarah, and Schoolgirl Sarah. Apparently they sell like hotcakes.

That sounds to me like a celebrity, and she refused to give interviews for two weeks following her speech, which so far makes her a less substantial politician than Obama.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 11, 2008, 03:31:56 PM
That sounds to me like a celebrity, and she refused to give interviews for two weeks following her speech, which so far makes her a less substantial politician than Obama.

Yup how strange is that? She's is the gop vp nominee but she can't give interviews until she's briefed properly? She allows the gop to run an effective campaign because anything Obama says will be hyped up. Like that lipstick comment?

But I think the more we find out about her the less enthusiastic anyone outside the gop will be. Like the fact she charged the state of Alaska $17,000 for 312 nights she stayed at home??? Or the 40 thousand plus she charged Alaska to transport her kids. Personally I think Joe Biden will take it to her in their debate.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on September 12, 2008, 06:46:07 PM
Bobby, in our newspaper here in UK today, it stated that Obama was faling behind in the polls..is this true?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on September 12, 2008, 07:09:18 PM
Bobby, just stepping in for you for a second--It is turning into a very tight race; McCain got quite a bounce from white women for the Palin choice.  McCain is ahead by a few points nationally--and in certain states (but at this point all that matters is the state-by-state polls, because of the way the winner is decided).  There's certainly plenty of race left to be run.  The debates haven't even happened yet, and they are often major factors.

If the election were held today, Obama would beat McCain by less than 10 electoral votes (a complete squeaker of an election) and take the presidency.  But that includes about 105 electoral votes from undecided states just leaning one way or another, and these could still change in unpredictable ways.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 13, 2008, 04:33:58 AM
Isn't anyone truly concerned that if McCain should get in, that awful woman will be one heartbeat away from the Presidency ?  The thought makes my blood run cold.  I have no desire to get into a heavy political debate about the US Presidency but IMO there is something very wrong about Palin and any man who publicly calls his wife a 'c**t', is hardly better.
Just my penny's worth ...
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: robertmblevins on September 13, 2008, 04:47:21 AM
KUDO AM Talkradio in Anchorage is running an online poll right now that asks 'Is Sarah Palin Ready to Be Vice President?'

Votes are running 86% AGAINST Palin. Even if mostly Dems or liberals voted, that's still pretty bad for your own home state. And in a state with a mere 670,000 residents, it doesn't take long for word to get around, or for people to turn against you.

Her fiasco with Troopergate gets worse by the day. A few days ago she filed an ethics complaint <a href="http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/13/1861145-sarah-palin-files-ethics-complaint-against-herself-in-effort-to-circumvent-legislative-investigation/">AGAINST HERSELF</a>, in an effort to circumvent the investigation by the Alaska Legislature and have it moved to the Personnel Board.

The Personnel Board consists of three people appointed by - SURPRISE - the Governor of Alaska. Palin appointed one of them after she took office. The other two were appointed by the previous governor, but she re-certified them. They all serve at the whim of the governor.

The Legislature told Palin that the Personnel Board could do what they wanted, but their own investigation goes on. Palin's lawyer protested, but failed. The Alaskan Legislature promises quick results.

Some callers to <a href=http://www.kudo1080.com/>KUDO AM</a> today wanted Palin to resign from office - or to face impeachment proceedings.

And you thought everybody in Alaska loved her, didn't you? (laughs)

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 13, 2008, 05:32:41 AM
cheers, Robert - you've brightened up my day!
btw loved your site!   :)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 13, 2008, 06:28:47 AM
from New York Times
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/opinion/13sat1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 13, 2008, 12:08:22 PM
Standing back from a situation will give you a better view...

I'm not sure where I heard that but it's a rule/motto that I live by. To answer your question Ellie, yup Obama is behind in the national polls. McCain's post convention bounce was roughly 6 poll points. Today McCain leads by 2.3% But the election will be decided in the following states: (Blue representing where Obama leads, those that are red=McCain...)

Colorado (9)  New Mexico (5) Michigan (17) New Hampshire (4) Pennsylvania (21)   Nevada (5) Virginia (13) Ohio (20)

If Obama holds then come Nov 4th, he'll be president. But I'm somewhat skeptical... Cnn and Abc both conducted global polls and the results where significant. If the election where global, McCain would receive 1 vote for every 9 votes in Obama's favor. Basically a landslide Dem victory!

So I personally don't understand what is going on in the states.  Sure it easy to follow the entire thing live via cable tv and the net. But I just don't see how anyone could vote for McCain? His new message is "Change" but how is change possible when the same lobbyist that ran the Bush administration now Run his campaign. When he's already promised to continue the same FAILING economic policies that Bush introduced. Policies that allow large corporations to receive hefty tax cuts while middle/lower class America receive a big fat 0 in terms of tax relief in a stagnant economy. All while continuing to spend 10 billion (pentagon confirmed figure) a month funding the 'war' in Iraq.

lol It's easy to see why his campaign talks about Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lipstick, and Pigs As opposed to the issues he helped create by voting with Bush 90% of the time in congress: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uThoBMfcFRc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uThoBMfcFRc)

Lets be clear here. The U.S reported that unemployment rose by 84,000 in August 2008 (Job losses have risen for 26 months straight.) The economy continues it's nose dive. Consumer confidence has reached an all time low whilst home repossessions are nearing a all time high. Yet some are dedicated to/are considering voting for McCain/4 more years of the same? Why? Even McCain's speeches are scripted by the same guys who do Bush's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa20q2s2BRs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa20q2s2BRs)

Then there's Palin...

Finally the gop let her do an interview. And in doing so revealed what we all suspected. She doesn't know S**% I couldn't stop laughing when they asked her about the Bush doctrine and she tried to style it out as though she new what she was talking about ;D

Note: The Bush doctrine is the basis/justification on which Bush invaded Iraq. It's British counter part = The David Kelly report (the Sadam can launch his missiles in 45minute claim)

But then I watched it again and listened to her talk about a possible war with Russia. Strikes against Iran. Her belief that "the war in Iraq is a mission from god." And thought about her other war mixed with religion rhetoric and suddenly, Well... Watching her didn't seem so funny...

And even though I couldn't care less about celebrity opinion I thought that Matt Damon looked as uneasy as I felt when watching Palin. So just this once, I'll included one because dude genuinely seems concerned, just check the dense lines in his forehead lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk)

Long rant over  ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on September 13, 2008, 05:14:28 PM
Bobby, I hope Obama makes it I really do.

Blair followed Bush into Iraq and thats when I resigned from the Labour party here in UK.

I see Obama as a breath of fresh air and being a world leader, someone who will lead us away from the theatre of war.

If I was an American citizen (oh how I love that word..would love to be a citizen not a 'subject' ;D)....Barack Obama would definitely get my vote ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 13, 2008, 09:20:09 PM
Politics is such a sensitive subject. Of course you're probably familiar with my views by now. I'm on the McCain/Palin side of the fence. I won't say unequivocally I believe in all they have to say, but mostly that's where my beliefs and values lie.

The attacks on Ms. Palin, I believe, are going a bit overboard. Less than 24 hrs. after her selection a whole herd of reporters descended in Alaska. All they looked for is dirt. In my experience if that's all you look for that's all you'll find. There's already been a lot of positive information also, but it's being ignored.

One example recently cited is Troopergate. Contemplate this in consideration of this issue. A member of law enforcement uses a stun gun on a ten (10) year old child, and admits it. His excuse is that the child needed discipline. She tells her director to fire  this officer, he refuses, and she fires him. This matter was already addressed and no misconduct was found. Ahhh yes, the political season is here, so now the legislature wants to get into the fray. (He was never brought up on criminal charges, why?)

(1) If this is a measure of his judgement do you want him on the street.

(2) Is this a measure of his temperment is he fit to serve the community.

This could go on for a while. I am a member of law enforcement and clearly see mega wrong here. If I were to conduct myself in that manner I'd expect to be canned immediately. This is a violent act on a child, assault to say the least. Even used on adults caution must be used. If a person has a weak heart it can kill them.

Why is nobody holding Obama accountable for his association with a known terrorist, a now convicted housing developer who scammed a lot of money (with Obama's help), Louis Farakhan and his church pastor which have both espoused very bigoted views. In interviews he will not commit to what level he will draw the line at for additional taxes. I'd suspect there is no bottom level. Therefore nationalized health care is nothing more than forcing everybody to have an insurance plan, and you'll pay even if poor.

The war - Many people don't like it. As a retired infantry soldier I can say there's nothing uglier. Weapons of mass destruction were found, and it was reported in the New York Times. News agencies, being biased, didn't keep up the story so a lot fail to realize it. If we cut and run then the lives of our soldiers were wasted. We must at least finish the mission.

If you don't believe in the bias of media here's an example. Columbine here in Colorado. When the school shooting took place that's all you saw almost all day on the news for weeks. Lobbyists from outside Colorado descended and pushed all kinds of gun control measures. Now, September 11, 2001, three thousand people are killed on American soil by terrorists. The media decides that these images are too disturbing for the people, and by Sept. 12 the videos of the act were all pulled.

Many of you are on the outside looking in and the wonders of the web allow access to lots of info. I'd simply say to do some research in areas other than the media. Don't follow the parties blindly. As has been said befor this time in history is extremely important, so look at all of the facts before commiting fully.

Harry

 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 14, 2008, 04:43:01 AM
Harry,  I hear what you are saying and I respect your views but there is nothing that would induce me to vote for that woman or any party she was associated with. And McCain?  don't make me laugh!  Unfortunately, what happens in the US affects the rest of the world so we have to take an interest.




Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 14, 2008, 11:30:30 AM

Why is nobody holding Obama accountable for his association with a known terrorist, a now convicted housing developer who scammed a lot of money (with Obama's help), Louis Farakhan and his church pastor which have both espoused very bigoted views. In interviews he will not commit to what level he will draw the line at for additional taxes. I'd suspect there is no bottom level. Therefore nationalized health care is nothing more than forcing everybody to have an insurance plan, and you'll pay even if poor.

I had to read this twice just to make sure I wasn't missing the point...

But I'm left wondering by how many degrees of separation is there before you get to associate Obama with Farrakhan? They have never met? Obama has denounced everything he stands for, before he ever reached office (evident in a transcript of a speech he wrote before he reached the senate.) In fact the only time I remember Obama referring to Farrakhan was when Farrakhan "endorsed" Obama and they posed the question of his this endorsement in a nomination debate. Where Obama again, denounced everything Farrakhan stands for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn4DEyghY30 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn4DEyghY30)   

Just out of interest, another leader of a racist group "The kkk" have also endorsed Obama... I wont add the clips (even though they are from cnn) but will pm them if needed.

As for the association with a 'know terrorist' I assume you're talking about Bill Ayers former member of the weather underground... A guy who committed terrorist acts when Obama was 8 years old? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlnoXZWRjgE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlnoXZWRjgE)

I mean we've got to keep things in perspective here. so I'll ask you, and anybody else reading this, what they did/were into when they were 8 years of age? Me personally? Umm... Lets see, I was damn near obsessed with Thunderkats (had the wall paper, bed sheets, most of the toys, and pyjamas.) Nintendo, Transformers, Football, WWF Wrestling, (The Undertaker was my fav) etc etc

Even though I digress I think the point of his Obama's 'association' with a terrorist is beyond a joke.

Hbe since you're here I feel compelled to ask you which of McCain's policies you support? Because if my memory serves me correctly, McCain's (prior to the convention) only policy was to drill for more oil. Or "drill baby drill" as he refers to it. I mean, drilling would be great IF it wasn't a process that took 7 years to yield results and delivered more than (at best) 3% of the oil America consumes annually. 

By the way gas prices have just climbed back to $4.00 I wonder what the price will be in 7 years if McCain does take office?

Hmm


Edit: When I was 8 this theme song gave me goosebumps and got me animated to the point where my mother said I couldn't drink fizzy drinks till it was finished. I also had the plastic sword with the infrared beam ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qd_IsxgAf8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qd_IsxgAf8)

 

 

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 14, 2008, 12:52:31 PM
Keeping things in perspective I see the terrorist association like this. Even if the act happened when he was 8, as recently as 2001 Ayers proclaimed that he was proud of the act and only regretted that he didn't do more. (If a person were to wait for 35 years would it be OK to call Bin Laden a friend?)

I do support the drilling. America needs to become independent of foreign oil. It will be much less than seven years with todays technology, possibly two or three. The seven year statement is only in those areas where they'll have to survey and find new fields. Many are already known. Until this happens it will be possible for America to be held hostage at a whim from OPEC.

This has to be done responsibly while searching other means of energy too. The hydrogen idea could go a long way. Recently a man, T. Boone Pickens, is proposing wind generation. He's a Texas billionaire and I'm sure he wouldn't be behind this plan if it was doomed to fail.

In the political world of go along to get along I'm sure McCain/Feingold was a way for him to at least target some of the lobbyist wrangling in congress, and money. It ended up watered down from the beginning notion in order to get enough support. I don't like how it limits freedom of speech. That can be dealt with later. I think he'll stop earmarks/porkbarrel projects. That is like when you have a bill for money for education and in order to get support you throw in an airport. Of course people support education, but unless you read line 25 on page 345 you'll never know about the airport so it passes.

Obama also dismissed his pastor and his remarks, after he said he could no more deny his pastor than his people. Something inside tells me he wasn't unfamiliar with his views after 20 years, so to stay tells me that he too supported those views. I know that if I was to be involved with a group that I found to hold white supremist views I'd be outta there in a heartbeat. Even his pastor said that he's a politician and will say what he has to.

In general I'm a "Reagan Conservative". Less Gov't involvement, less taxes, strong defense. I don't support gun control, I believe in a person's right to self expression. I believe in freedom of religion, not freedom from religion, but don't try to push your religion on me and tell me mine is wrong. Our constitution is very clear on the limits of power on the government, and all else is up to the states. The notion of separation of church and state is bastardized from a personal letter from Thomas Jefferson to a Presbeterian minister, and was not ever an execuitive order.

I suppose that's the gist of it. Like I said I could probably write a book, and may. I'm just glad we can freely have this discussion. I've been to parts of the world where this would get you executed, on the spot.

Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 15, 2008, 03:48:40 PM
I accept that Ayers' past actions can never be excused.

But, he served his time and America has accepted him back into society. He has been a distinguished professor at the university of Illinois Chicago for some time now. Winning more awards for his work on education reform (and his accompanying publications) that I care to mention.

More importantly his work on education reform is what led him and Obama to meet back when Obama was a community organizer. But I guess we can come back to that

Because as I'm sure you're aware, Lehman Brothers bank collapsed today/last night citing 631 billion dollars in losses. And as a result, America lost 30,000 jobs (Britain stands to lose 5,000.) But what I find hilarious is that Bush called the collapse a "disturbance" whilst John McCain (today) told America that the economy is "fundamentally strong."  :o

Know one disputes the fact that Bush's economic policies helped create this situation or that these policies are the very same McCain helped to create (by voting with Bush 90% of the time) and has promised to continue. But for me, the nail in the economic coffin (should McCain become president) comes in the form of Bill Timmons. Recent appointee to McCain's would be cabinet. A person who is known throughout Washington as "the single biggest Oil lobbyist" there is. yet McCain is still running on a campaign message of change.

By the way the collapsed/bankrupt Fannie Mae, Frederick Mac, and Lehman Brothers were cited as three of the five largest mortgage investors. Could anyone tell me the names of the other two?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: HBEgley on September 15, 2008, 10:28:50 PM
Of course we could go on forever on policy. One thing good I see coming out of all of this is the interest it's drawing from the people. We've become apathetic in our involvement in how our country is run. I've always been taught that it is important to stay involved and participate in the electoral process. From the time I was in elementary school it was the duty and a privilege to be part of it. I find it amazing that in years past tht sometimes less than 45% of registered voters actually vote. Now they've started giving absentee ballots so that maybe more people will vote. I haven't seen it make much difference in the overall turn out, but less people actuall go to the polls.

This really is a sad state to find ourselves in. I hope that, with all that's at stake, more of our citizens will get out and vote. We've had it easy too long I guess. I've seen parts of the world where people would kill for this kind of opportunity.

Harry
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on September 16, 2008, 12:44:54 PM
Well said Harry. Ive always felt it my duty to vote.....people died that we might have the vote, specially for women.

On our news today it said that McCain is 5% up in the polls?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Annmarie on September 16, 2008, 03:56:09 PM
Jumping for a moment into the rants:

Just wait for the debates, people. Polls mean nothing so early in the campaign season. You can watch them like bookies watching the odds, but they mean zip until November 3. And even then... I believe it will be a tight race.

I was raised by a Marine Corps major. He was a card carrying member of the Republican Party. Every Christmas, the Republicans sent us a nice Christmas ornament and seasons greetings from Reagan and Bush I. Through Iran-Contra, my step-dad stayed true to the party. Through the SNL crisis, he stayed true. The Kuwait war, okay. Through the Clinton years, he griped a lot until the federal budget emerged miraculously balanced. Under a democratic president, no less.

Then came Bush II. My step-dad, no longer in the Marine Corps but now a senior executive in a major car company, had serious doubts about the pick. After September 11, those doubts grew. Afghanistan, then Iraq. My step-dad was appalled at the misuse of the military, the flaunting of international law and the sovereignty of nations. Most of all, he was incensed by irresponsible government spending under a Republican  president and a Republican Congress. Being in a state of war is no excuse for unsound economic policy.

The financial  meltdown since then has put the nail in the Republican  coffin in my step-dad's view. He left the party some time ago and is registered independent (as I always have been). If you haven't guessed, he was a fiscal conservative. In his view, the Republican Party sold its soul when it pandered to the social conservatives at the expense of fiscal conservatism. In other words, a party that shouts abortion and gay marriage when it wants to bring out the voters is no party for someone who could care less about who you sleep with  but cares deeply about how the  government spends his money.

Eight years ago, my stepdad would have voted for McCain for president over Bush. Now, he won't touch McCain. The campaign has shown a peculiar transformation in McCain, a willingess to pander to the lowest common denominator -- passť catch phrases like "big government" and "no new taxes." The  choice of Palin as a running mate is an obvious nod toward the social conservative agenda he once (and rightly) ignored. He  offers nothing but hollow old phrases to the old school, core fiscal conservatives. They're left hanging in the breeze. Some of them, like my step-dad, will vote for Obama.  Some out of conviction, others out of a desire to tell the Republican Party that it has betrayed its core long enough.

By the way, I'm also a fiscal conservative and have voted for Republicans (though not for president). I  had a pretty good view of McCain when he was too liberal for some Republicans. But he like the rest of Congress folded consistently when Bush II came  knocking since Sept 11, and his was not a voice calling the administration to account for its fiscal policy.

Would a junior senator from Illinois change things? I don't know. I'm starting to think the mess is too big for anyone to clean up. I will vote for Obama, though, for several reasons. One is the way McCain is doing his campaign. He talks as if he is not the Republican party. I am not naive enough to think the Republicans will reform themselves if they get another chance in the White House. They'll reform themselves if they lose the White House. Maybe.

As for the Dems, I don't think they have much to worry about in the long run. US demographics will develop in their favor in the next few decades. The GOP of old white men and social conservatives won't have much to offer if it can't change with the times. McCain's campaign has shown no signs it would be the harbinger of change in his own party. Why should it? Who is backing McCain? The same old guys who backed Bush. Or did McCain refuse funding from the Republican National Committee, and I just missed that news report?  ::)

Frankly, it'd be nice to see a true Independent, Centrist party...Something really new.



 



Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: SteveJ on September 16, 2008, 05:40:00 PM
A nonpartisan message from Sarah Palin & Hillary Clinton:

http://video.google.es/videosearch?q=snl+palin&emb=0&aq=f#

(http://www.gaywired.com/Images/Articles/20329/20329_TopNews_superlarges.jpg)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: SteveJ on September 16, 2008, 05:57:35 PM
Bumpesque  ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 17, 2008, 06:40:25 AM
Hysterically funny.   ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 19, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
 ::)

I put off posting in this thread for obvious reasons...

It's been pretty strange watching the dominoes fall and to see the disastrous economic ripple shake economies across the globe. Politically, watching McCain switch positions from one economic stance to the next would have been hilarious if the effects of this situation were not so far reaching.

Which brings me to today. Bush has decided to give an unprecedented trillion + to wall street (Gordon Brown is set sugar coat the ftse with roughly half a trillion pounds.) Which in affect rewards the bankers/brokers/traders that squandered zillions with a license that basically says we'll reward you in the future, whenever you do more of the same...

But the bottom line according to most analysts is that interest rates are set to rise as a result of this bail out. Those with mortgage's have their payments are set to increase. The prospects of first time buyers (something I hope to be in the near future) look pretty bleak, globally.

And in close to 40 something days we're either going to change direction or continue on the exact same path.  :-\

Hmm

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 19, 2008, 03:36:21 PM
Scarey, aint it?   :(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: SteveJ on September 19, 2008, 03:40:59 PM
PALIN'S MSN CONVERSATIONS HACKED!

Transcript:

Sarah4Prez wrote:
Liek OMG, Jesus is kewt!  :o

Condy1:
Totally hot  8)

Sarah4Prez wrote:
He's, liek, my 1st Dude! Lolz  :-*

John08 wrote:
How do I get colored text?

Sarah4Prez wrote:
Jesus F'king Christ... *sighs*  :'(


More at: link to www.made-upwebaddress.com
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on September 20, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
If you believe that Obama is not taking money from Wall Street, lawyers and lobbyists then you have fallen for a very large scam indeed ( which has been the intention of those perpetuating the biggest financial scams of all time).
quote:   "Obama is taking money, lots of it, from owners and employees of firms registered as federal lobbyists but not the actual  individual lobbyists." 

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008ElectionandRacism/Obama/Obama85.htm (http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008ElectionandRacism/Obama/Obama85.htm)

  I have been a little too busy to spend time here at this website, yet have been following the financial crisis evolve over the last two years and now the political wranglings going on too. If I had the choice to vote i wouldn't trust either of the two main party options. Since the those at the top of the largest financial institutes,banks, corporate businesses etc., cannot function correctly with the general public interest as even a partial consideration in their agenda, why would anyone assume that these persons of little or no experience are going to change anything or can even redeem the present situation. Wake up folks, this isn't a tv programme or movie.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 21, 2008, 01:05:49 PM
Hmm

There is a HUGE difference between an individual contribution and contributions from lobbyists. HUGE... But anyways, I followed the link and read the story, though I must admit that after the 5th para I started skimming through. Why? because I realized that if the story were true then the election would be over for Obama.

Sooooo I pressed the "home" button of that site. Simply because I wanted to know the political stand point/view the story was founded on, and found this (copied and pasted) "This site focuses on one issue: racial inequality. It does not endorse or oppose any party or any candidate."   ::)

Then in the sub menu found a list of other articles under "racial groups" that I don't care to list. Bottom line (from my perspective) articles, stories, and theories that come from sources that hold such a biased view...

Hold no weight and therefore get 0% of my attention.

Just like fox news  ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 21, 2008, 02:26:28 PM
Bobby - 'Just like Fox News' - I like it!   LOLOL
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 26, 2008, 04:00:55 PM
WOW

Just WOW... What a week it's been lol There's so much I could touch on but 'wow' is all I can say  ;D

With polls numbers sliding Senator John McCain """suspended""" his presidential campaign to return to Washington and vote (something he hasn't done since April 6th ::) ) But I'm not going to touch on that because even republican's see it as McCain calling for a time out and desperately trying to revive his campaign. McCain's campaign is doing so poorly that Obama now leads in Virginia, a reliable Republican state since 88A.D

But anyways... With this post, I'm posting to convey my fears? Yup, I watched Sara Palin's interview and was scared s***less. Not because of the fact that after her first interview (where she explored the possibility of a war with Russia) Russia responded by putting out a sarcastic yet chilling statement asking her (Palin) if she knew what a nuclear holocaust was?

But because she doesn't know diddly-squat!!! Just watch/listen to her view on why being the governor of Alaska gives her foreign policy experience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5G5fOYAT18

And you'll see she has no clue about what she is talking about. None/Nada/Zilch or whatever you choose to call it. Regardless of which party you'd like to see take office. If watching this doesn't make you think twice or scare the begebus out of you then nothing will.

Note: At one point she actually says "Russia and Canada are in the state I'm executive of"  ::)

On foreign/domestic policy, on the economy, on Israel, on Iran, on the proposed bailout, on every/any aspect of the political spectrum Sara Palin is Clueless. And I'm not talking about the chick flick.

Staying up for the Debate tonight, bobby.

Edit: Sara Palin also knows nothing about her running mate John McCain. When asked about him she (again) just waffles her way around the point. And then, when asked to be specific she says "I'll try to find you some (specific examples) and bring them to ya" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ)

I think John Mcenroe said it best when he stated: "You can't be serious man, you can not be serious!!!"

 
 


Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on September 26, 2008, 04:05:17 PM
That interview was scarey.  Very, very scarey.
Thanks for putting the link up.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on September 26, 2008, 04:29:54 PM
*Waits for Harry aka HBEgley's take on the situation*
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on October 12, 2008, 01:32:43 PM
Race in the race  :-\  ???  :(  ::)

There are so many things I could touch upon here. In one of my earlier posts for this thread I stated something like "This presidential race is the best case of political chess we will ever witness." But that was then...

As always I've been following the election as closely as possible. And until recently, I thought the turning point in this election was when McCain pretended to suspend his campaign and return to Washington to jump start the worlds economy. Only to fail miserably in the eyes of congress and his potential electorate... Or it could have been the news that his VP has been found guilty of abusing her power as Governor of Alaska. But again, that was then...

The Chess game is over! John McCain is losing in every state and come Nov 4th (at the moment) it looks like it'll be a landslide victory for the Dems. And the Hilarious thing about it all is that until a week ago, McCain ran on the promise of integrity. On the promise that his time as a p.o.w. gave him a higher purpose.

Now he uses his political allies and vp to insinuate and stoke racial fear. Personally it's the strangest thing to see. I mean, I have never been a victim of anything that even slightly resembles racism. Neither has my family or friends (both of which are ethnically diverse) so to actually see it live and direct on the republican campaign trail really is (for me) the strangest thing ever. I have lost all respect for McCain for using the most divisive strategy to win the election. Though with that said I can't commended the American people enough for seeing through it.

To watch a McCain rallies today is almost like flipping through the history books to see what an angry mob filled with racial hate looked like. Thankfully I was born In a time/place where my Caribbean heritage is neither here nor there or may even be considered a plus? That blends effortlessly with my place of birth. But I don't want to go off on a tangent...

I thought/hoped we wouldn't reach this point and never thought for a moment we'd see/hear people cry out for Obama's blood. Where die hard Republicans would shout bs like "kill him!" and "terrorist!"

And on that note I'd like to share with you this youtube vid. I first read about it on CNN before I actually saw the clip  I had to watch it a couple of times just to 'understand' exactly what I was seeing. And to be honest, the embarrassed look/smile on this guys face when he's caught by the camera (at a republican rally) would have been hilarious if what he was holding in his hands wasn't so cruel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_7mEWoWI8&eurl= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_7mEWoWI8&eurl=)

Note: Before the Negative campaigning Obama's lead on an average of 9 nonpartisan polls was 4.8 it is now 7.5 and will be updated on Monday/daily. So my guess is come Monday the Gop will abandon the negative strategy and concoct a new one that hopefully resonates.   

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html)

   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on October 12, 2008, 02:08:21 PM
And for all my dear American mates.....Gordon Brown says everything is all YOUR fault!!  Oh yep!  He had nothing to do with this financial crisis whatsoever!!  Although he was in charge of the British treasury for years, he is totally blameless!  Gormless Git more like!!
And according to the people closest to him, right now he's never been so happy as he sees himself as the saviour of the world!  Oh yes folks, you heard it right here first!  it seems that the second coming has been right under our noses all this time!  It's Gordon Brown!
(http://www.abandonallfear.co.uk/blog/uploaded_images/gordon-778582.gif)Here he is saving some kids!!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on October 18, 2008, 02:36:04 PM
From my perspective, having paid close attention to the financial aspects of the crisis on the American side and around the world this last month, it is perfectly obvious that Gordon Brown has been the leading economic official in the world recently and we have much, very much to thank him for.  I made my share of fun of the clumsy-butt Labourites not long ago, but Brown has acted like a visionary statesman in recent weeks and deserves tons of credit for that.  Some of the Americans (Ben Bernanke in particular) are parallel to or following Brown, and therein lies our hope for getting through this mess.  To the extent that Henry Paulsen gets in the way of that, our chances are diminished.  And as the USA goes, unfortunately, so also will go the world to a large extent.  Luckily the Americans and the Europeans are cooperating and flooding their respective systems with money.  Check back in six months to see what's happened; in the meantime, the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and perhaps since 1795, is slowly being resolved, albeit imperfectly.

Unless something dramatic and unforeseen changes the game, Obama will win by more than 100 electoral college votes and perhaps 200, which is an historic landslide in American elections. 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on October 18, 2008, 04:50:20 PM
i've had my share of slagging off labour and Gordon Brown lately but fair play to him. i don't take any of what rowena dawn says seriously because i know she supports conservative :P ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on October 18, 2008, 05:25:45 PM
Yes, MC, I agree, fair play to Brown indeed.  I'd add one thing for Rowena--Brown is right about Americans being at fault here, everyone agrees on that, it's true.  At the moment, though, it's not really who's at fault that is so important as how we're going to get out of it.  As I say, that is in progress.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on October 18, 2008, 05:27:03 PM
Agree MC & Eric....I think Gordons come into his own at this moment and has made the other leaders in  Europe & America, look like amatuers. You need a serious man in serious times and Gordon fits the bill.
You see how Cameron has shown his true colours, supposedly supporting the Primeminister and then accusing him of being to blame for the financial crisis....what a turncoat...and can someone tell me please, why do I always imagine this man(Cameron) in women's underwear? ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on October 18, 2008, 05:29:55 PM
 ;D what are you saying ellie? :o
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on October 18, 2008, 05:39:20 PM
;D what are you saying ellie? :o

Sorry MC :-[.. blush..but whenever I see Cameron this image trots across my mind (bit like Reggie Perrin seeing his mother in law as a hippo  ;D)
I imagine him with dangly earrings too...... :o
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on October 18, 2008, 11:54:04 PM
i am shocked, Ellie, shocked i say.  i have no idea about Alistair, is it? the chancellor of the exchequerre or whatever it is, but i admit the first time i saw him i briefly contemplated asking him out on a date and i'm not even inclined that way ... no reflection on his competence of course, whether well or ill ... don't even know the man aside from the pinup of him i've got in my locker, hem ... of course my opinion is nugatory on the subject since i'm just an old git with a taste for dears ... the four-footed variety that is ... well, not entirely ... better shut up I guess ...

also i have no idea what he's on about, but i do know the English and other Europeans as well as others around the globe bought bundled American derivative securities which turned out to be toxic assets with the approximate market value of cesspools.  Can't quite see how any particular prime minister would be to blame for that.  As I said somewhere, it's the getting us out of it that counts now, and Brown is certainly front and center on that.

i ran the numbers by hand on a first test election of the year tonight, and i got a 160 electoral vote margin for Obama as things now stand, which is huge.  McCain seems to be firming up support among his base and is calling Obama a socialist, which is odd because we all are that as of the last month or so, courtesy of our Republican leaders.  However, it's an attack which used to have traction so we will have to see.  McCain, however, will have to win all remaining toss-up states (there are about seven) AND cut fairly significantly into the states going for Obama in order not to lose.  I think Obama will win big in Florida and New Mexico; also Ohio, Missouri, and Colorado are leaning for him, and he is already expected to win (for example) Pennsylvania.  McCain will have to win all five of the earlier states or equivalent Obama-leaning states, as well as Indiana, North Dakota, and others outside the typical "red" states to be able to win.  That appears to be a clearly impossible task, especially now that the Republicans are showing heavy signs of financial strain and are withdrawing from implausible contests.

bottom line:  the mainstream American media (which Republicans deride as being leftist) is clearly underreporting the size of the developing Obama tsunami.   They are probably just being cautious, having been burned by false early predictions in past races, but the reality for the Republicans is far more grim than stated.  There was a tightening of polls in a couple of respects yesterday, but in both cases the results were suspect.  Don't hold breath yet, but don't be surprised to see a Democratic tidal wave in a couple of weeks.  Ten more days of bad economic news will likely drive the nail into the Republicans' collective coffin.  Watch for further interest rate cuts, though, a traditional ploy to keep the reigning party in power y encouraging the stock market to rally.  The rub is that interest rate cuts aren't working in this financial environment, and the next one will have to be  coordinated with Europe to have any chance at all.

You need a serious man in serious times and Gordon fits the bill.  Yes, I agree.  That's my view.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on October 19, 2008, 04:12:45 AM
that's absoutely true eric. you need a tough man and gordon nows fits the bill. but the UK differs in one way to the US we vote for the party not the man. i am a labour supporter generally but i'm damned if labour and conservative deserve my vote. THEN that puts me in a quandry because in these mean times we need a government that is already skilled and that means the labour party as they have 11 years behind them.

i know what i need to do but i don't want to do it.  ???
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on October 19, 2008, 12:07:47 PM
Whats that MC..go on tell us ;D

If there was an election soon Id go for Labour.

Eric sweetie, whats all this about you and deer? :o (only kidding you ;))

I think Alistair Darling should give Groucho Marx back his eyebrows :-*
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on October 19, 2008, 12:16:40 PM
i'm just saying that the world is changing so much there is not a lot of choice between the (main) parties.

Gordon Brown = who is starting to show leadership.
David Cameron = smug twat - wouldn't trust him as far as i could spit
Nick Clegg = seems decent enough but don't know too much about him.

in these times we need to stay with those who have the skills - labour. it's just that i don't want to because most of them are lying, theiving cheats like the tories.

and then there is UKIP and BNP which i fear the latter will start to get more votes.

so do me a favour Gordon Brown - pull us out of Europe Please. >:(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeanette on October 19, 2008, 05:05:27 PM
So in the current crisis Gordon Brown is able to appear as a competent leader doing something about it.

Let's just consider why we're in the crap in the first place.

Over the past few years Brown has introduced a multitude of stealth taxes which undermined small businesses, at the same time introducing new legislation 'on the hoof' before it had been thought through, which made life for small businesses harder and harder, and in fact drove many vitally important IT businesses out of the UK. Small businesses have always been the lifeblood of the UK, but Brown has always treated them both with disdain and as a source to be plundered, as chancellor, and now as PM.

Let's talk pensions. Four out of five private sector final salary pension schemes have closed under Labour, who took £100billion off the value of private pensions by increasing the tax on dividends when they took power. Meanwhile, the uncosted liability to taxpayers for public sector pensioners is more than £1trillion.

On the back of this, people thought, stuff our pensions, we'll put our money in property, that'll be safe. The banks have in some instances been lending 150% of the value of property to people who may or may not be able to pay their mortgages. They simply did not care. And let's be realistic: good old Gordon knew this was happening, but he did nothing. He could have introduced regulation, but he didn't, he let the banks carry on with their reckless greedy incompetent lending, and at the same time did nothing to stop the tidal wave of public borrowing.

And now, surprise surprise, look where we are. Now people will start losing their pensions, their jobs, their homes,
and Brown has the gall to come out and start blaming everyone else. As a lifelong labour supporter (not to mention a Scot) I am appalled. It was bad enough when Tony Blair fooled us all, but this is beyond the pale.

If there was an election tomorrow, I would have no idea how to vote. Lies, lies and damned lies! 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on October 19, 2008, 05:42:34 PM
So in the current crisis Gordon Brown is able to appear as a competent leader doing something about it.

Let's just consider why we're in the crap in the first place.

Over the past few years Brown has introduced a multitude of stealth taxes which undermined small businesses, at the same time introducing new legislation 'on the hoof' before it had been thought through, which made life for small businesses harder and harder, and in fact drove many vitally important IT businesses out of the UK. Small businesses have always been the lifeblood of the UK, but Brown has always treated them both with disdain and as a source to be plundered, as chancellor, and now as PM.

Let's talk pensions. Four out of five private sector final salary pension schemes have closed under Labour, who took £100billion off the value of private pensions by increasing the tax on dividends when they took power. Meanwhile, the uncosted liability to taxpayers for public sector pensioners is more than £1trillion.

On the back of this, people thought, stuff our pensions, we'll put our money in property, that'll be safe. The banks have in some instances been lending 150% of the value of property to people who may or may not be able to pay their mortgages. They simply did not care. And let's be realistic: good old Gordon knew this was happening, but he did nothing. He could have introduced regulation, but he didn't, he let the banks carry on with their reckless greedy incompetent lending, and at the same time did nothing to stop the tidal wave of public borrowing.

And now, surprise surprise, look where we are. Now people will start losing their pensions, their jobs, their homes,
and Brown has the gall to come out and start blaming everyone else. As a lifelong labour supporter (not to mention a Scot) I am appalled. It was bad enough when Tony Blair fooled us all, but this is beyond the pale.

If there was an election tomorrow, I would have no idea how to vote. Lies, lies and damned lies! 

that's it in a nutshell and that's why parties like BNP will start getting footholds. The whole country and political system is a crock of shite. Angry don't come near to how i feel.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on October 20, 2008, 12:18:26 PM
Question time last week came from Stoke on Trent and many in the audience were getting worried that the BNP are getting a hold there...and it was said. that was cos the Labour, Tories & Libs were all sounding the same.

I left the Labour party(after joining it in 1996 & working for them) in 2003, cos Blair marched us into the Iraq war which I was dead against.
But even though I left the party, I would still vote Labour in next election.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on October 20, 2008, 01:40:17 PM
i believe stoke has the first BNP run council in the UK. that is a worrying trend ???
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on October 25, 2008, 09:58:50 PM
Just to catch up on what is happening back in America, the latest polls are in this weekend and they show Obama is trending toward 375 electoral votes, nearly two hundred more than McCain and 105 more than is needed to win.  This depends on (e.g.) Florida and North Carolina which if McC. pulls them out will be a 42-point switch.  Other options are narrowing rapidly as the election approaches (a week from Tuesday).  So (barring some grotesque, unforeseen event) it's basically over except for Republican screeches, and the people in the McCain camp are blaming each other for what went wrong--a sure sign they can see what's coming.  This will not be a completely historic landslide, Nixon got over 500 EV once and Reagan got over 500 once and nearly that once, but it will be very big for Democrats who are used to usually being shellacked.

It is obvious hearing them speak and studying their written materials that Obama is far more intelligent that McCain, apparently more caring, more diplomatic, and tougher in some very basic ways, even though McCain is a great American in his way.  Last week the great General Colin Powell, former Secretary of State, a moderate Republican, clearly the most intelligent person in the Bush 43 White House before he resigned, and the most popular politician in the country not long ago, came out in support of Obama.  It was like the death knell for McC.

Back in the day, McC. was also moderate (not as much as Powell but rather a lot) and constantly worked with Democrats to achieve things.  At that time (about four years after Powell) McC. was the most popular Republican in the country.  But he was the victim of a basically racist attack by Republican operatives working for Bush 43 -- they said that McC had an illegitimate black daughter in Indonesia (he and his wife actually adopted a daughter in Indonesia).  This was in the South Carolina primary and the vicious undertones of the attack resonated.  Bush 43 won there and McC. dropped out of the campaign.  That's how we got handed dear old 43 and his string of complete disasters. 

When McC. ran this time he beat the Republican establishment and took the nomination.  Running against Obama, however, he was torn between being the centrist McC. of old who was hugely popular with independents or gravitating to the right to firm up his base with the Republican party.  He chose to do the latter, and ran a fairly conventional attack-dog campaign.  It does not seem likely, but he might actually have won -- he was tied or a little ahead before the economy crashed to smithereens.  And he could not have counted on alienating Powell--though in retrospect that was a clear risk.

Some idiot commented on the net that Powell, who is black, supported Obama, who considers himself black, because he was racist.  The commentator said "I'm so tired of racists like Colin Powell and Barack Obama."  That person needs to move, apparently, to that Republican fantasy world where everyone is white except the servants, and where racism does not officially exist.

A white, female Republican worker pretended that some big, black mugger beat her up and carved a "B" on her face to force her to vote for Obama, and conservative talker-types were already having a field day with it later the same day when she admitted she'd lied and made the whole thing up.  Apparently she has mental troubles--she says no one put her up to it, but we already know we can't trust her.

This election will be what we Yanks call a "wave" election, when one party or another is swept into office on a wave and the other is swept out.  The chances are excellent that the Democrats will increase their margins of control in the Congress substantially.  While McCain would have to win all the close states and take a number of Obama's states to even have a chance, a scenario which looks wholly unlikely tonight, the odds are the close states will break for Obama.  He even might end up winning West Virginia, which seemed impossible earlier in this campaign.

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeanette on October 26, 2008, 04:43:02 AM
That's absolutely fascinating stuff, Eric, especially the part about McCain originally being a moderate. As you say, what if? However, as a Brit I will certainly feel better having Obama as president rather than McCain. Looking forward to the final result.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Annmarie on October 26, 2008, 04:53:43 AM
Virginia is the key. If Obama wins the Old Dominion, he will break the social southern conservative Republican stranglehold and maybe for good, depending on continuing demographic shifts. Watch North Carolina too. There should be no red states and no blue states, only independent states which can't be "delivered" to either candidate in an election. This time around, it sure as heck looks like the red states are the ones bolting to centrism.

I think West Virginia will  go for McCain, but I won't kick them out of my fantasy "real America" for that.  :) West Virginia broke off from the rest of Virginia to stay with the union in the Civil War, so as a state, it can't be all bad.  ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on October 26, 2008, 06:21:54 AM
As a Brit I am for Obama.  IMO Barack Obama is not only what the US needs but what the world needs right now.
However, Anyone see the movie 'Recount' - describing events leading up to Bush's win? 
Let's pray that doesnt happen again!

btw ... for a look into the scarey future, check out www.PalinasPresident.com.  ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on October 26, 2008, 01:22:02 PM
Not been of either party i am curious as to what anyone thinks that Obama can do  differently than any other party given the present world financial situation. Clinton and Greenspan opened the flood gateds to deregulated markets which has given to use a huge over leveraged financial system, and shadow bankning system, and to which the Republicans followed into and allowed to continue.A democratic congress has never attempted to redress that fact, though they had the power.
The both of the present parties are two sides of the same coin, both of which subscribe to a New World Order (their own words).
The Bush republicans are not from the south by the way,they are from Connecticut.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on October 26, 2008, 01:24:07 PM
Bush from CT?   I thought they were from Texas!
Or did I misunderstand the post.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on October 26, 2008, 01:33:26 PM
Yes the Bushes are from CT.
I know Texans who are very adamant that that type of republican, ie the Bushes are not Texan. Junior just played that way since getting into oil.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on October 28, 2008, 01:58:49 PM
The Democratic Congress did not have very much power the last couple of years, it was caught between the substantial Republican minority and GW Bush 43's veto threat.  Not having 60 votes, it went down to defeat frequently on important matters (and did not even bother to contest others, where the handwriting was on the wall).  That will not be the case under President O.  And the truth is very few people saw this economic meltdown coming beforehand--last year it was all about being in Iraq or not.  But the real fact is that the Republicans under Bush took the lead left by Greenspan and ran wild with it, in an orgy of money rapaciousness for which we'll all be paying the piper for years, while hedge fund bandits hide out in their lavish getaways in Costa Rica living the good life.  Meanwhile, the rest of us will be living the life of diminished expectations, wondering where it all went.

What O. can do is substitute intelligent economics and prudent regulation for greed and stupidity which have ruled our markets for too long.  There will be a sea change in American political practice which we haven't seen since Reagan.  Reaganomics is now gone to a well deserved ignominy, and O. has the chance to correct the course of our ship of state which has been going way right for far too long.  But it will indeed be interesting to see if he can do that.  He is surrounded by many of the nation's leading intellects, especially in the economic sphere, so my guess is that he'll have a good chance.  That is, unless the right-wing counterattacks take hold.

The Democratic wave has slowed on the electoral map, there is some tightening up in North Carolina and Florida which are both essentially even right now.  Also, a Republican pollster made a comment that rang true to me, because I'd heard it years before while "in the business" as it were (not enough to make money at it, but it kept me engaged for awhile).  The pollster said you can normally count on three-quarters of "undecided" votes to break against the black candidate in a white-nonwhite race.  In places like Missouri and Indiana, where the race is again close to dead even, that may well be enough to tip the scales to McC.  O. is going to win anyway even if he loses these four states, but the idea makes me more cautious one week out from the election.  I have revised my electoral vote prediction to 322 Obama, 216 McCain.  We shall see if the momentum continues to tighten up.

For all you Brit and European fans of O., he gave his "closing argument" speech yesterday in Canton, Ohio.  He's returning to the early themes of his campaign, and that brings a side benefit--spectacular rhetoric.  If you missed it (and I'm confident most of you did), you might want to check it out on his website.

Re:  The Bush family -- they're "originally" from Texas, more or less.  Americans move around, particularly rich ones.  Bush 41 was born in Massachusetts (his father was a Senator from Connecticut) and settled in Texas where he was elected to Congress twice.  He and Barbara raised their family there and (when he was president) in Kennebunkport, Maine.  So they kept two houses. 

Yelnick is quite right that 41's politics (New England patrician, basically centrist) are way different from 43's, and from most Texans'.  There's been an interesting analysis done of 43's presidency that asserts that most of the major failures 43 has made can be explained by the son's negative reaction to his father's policies.  And in fact there is an internecine war, full of angst and blame-making, now developing in the Republican ranks between moderates and hard right-wingers (mentioned in the above post) that more or less mirrors the split between the Bushes.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on October 28, 2008, 03:23:41 PM
Hi Jack,
do you really think McCain will get that many states?  From what I heard today, he and Palin are now publicly disagreeing and he is - allegedly - regretting his choice of VP.  This must be very unsettling for those misguided McCain diehards.

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on October 28, 2008, 03:25:11 PM
'Jack' ????????????   How did he get into this. 
I was of course responding to Eric's post. 
Sorry.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on October 29, 2008, 06:18:10 PM
Although if I were an American and had a vote it would be Obama....I do fear for his safety.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on October 31, 2008, 12:47:20 AM
The media always focuses on the "horse race" percentage polling margin (today it is 50-43 in favor of O., but some polls are showing a 1-point margin) rather than the state-by-state count, because the horse race makes for better drama and is more easily explained.  Also the cynical right-wing media can pretend that McC. still has a chance (to get out the vote for him).   Right now they're saying that the percentages are tightening, which is not really so, but they say that, and in a few polls it is.  The true race, however, is in the state-by-state counts, because of the electoral college which tallies each state's votes and awards a set number of points to the winner of the statewide race on a winner-take-all basis, and it is showing remarkably little volatility.  O. has steadily increased his lead (he's now about 350), and there is a little consolidation (he was up to 375 not long ago) but the situation is exceedingly grim for McC, and he knows it.  McC. has indeed won a great swath of states across the middle of America, he will assuredly get about 150 at least if not 200 (these are rough estimates) but the votes are where the people live and O. has eaten into the "red" (conservative) states more than any recent Democrat.  Indiana is going to McC., but it is likely that O. will win Florida and North Carolina as we sit here tonight--these are unheard-of outcomes, N.C. is a very red state and McC. is very popular in Florida, which is also pretty red.  Bottom line--there is almost no likelihood that O. will lose, and he may well win very substantially (as I've predicted).  McC. never gives up and has come back from the dead (both literally and figuratively) several times in his life, so don't count him out.  He does have arguments to make and he's making them.  But  McC. refers to himself in private as "dead man walking" and O. has flooded the campaign with ads and money as he is clearly going for a landslide.  O. is using the Powell Doctrine (of our former military chief Gen. Colin Powell) -- overwhelming force and sureness of purpose.  So far it's working.  About four days to go.

I doubt McC. regrets Palin that much.  People in his campaign have been sniping (the Repubs will go to all out war next week between the moderate and hard-right camps; Palin represents the latter), but McCain himself absolutely does not gripe.  Her pick did accomplish what he wanted from her, energizing the hard-right "base" of the Republican Party.  He can see now that his strategy of making accomodations with the hard right, going negative on O., etc., could have been a bad thing in the long run but probably nothing he could have done would have mattered in the face of the economic meltdown.  McC. was already facing a huge headwind from people sick and tired of Bush.  Remember McC. was actually a few points up on O. despite that and after picking Palin and going negative before all hell broke loose on Wall Street. 

About assassination, that is always a risk but I think our security forces have a lot better intelligence and capability than used to be the case.  I notice that no one is ever worried about me getting assassinated.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on October 31, 2008, 05:11:32 AM
Eric,
not sure if you know about the www.538.com site but this always gives a pretty accurate account.  My friend was in Virginia Beach last night at the Obama rally and he called me so I could hear Barrack speak.  Even over the transatlantic cell phone, the atmosphere was intoxicating.  It sound like the finale of 'Mamma Mia'!  There was so much laughter and song.  Everyone sounded so happy.  So unlike the sulky and bitter McCain crowds.
btw Eric ... you have no fear of assassination - they're out there looking for 'Jack' ...   ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on November 01, 2008, 03:31:20 PM
Quote
.....And the truth is very few people saw this economic meltdown coming beforehand--last year it was all about being in Iraq or not.  But the real fact is that the Republicans under Bush took the lead left by Greenspan and ran wild with it, in an orgy of money rapaciousness for which we'll all be paying the piper for years, while hedge fund bandits hide out in their lavish getaways in Costa Rica living the good life.  Meanwhile, the rest of us will be living the life of diminished expectations, wondering where it all went.

This  part of your response is some what inaccurate and i have to disagree. Having read the warnings in financial newsletters for more than a couple of years i know that the growth of the derivatives market and the warnings and criticism of the situation was  loud and clear in many circles. Though not a fan of present President the White House did suggest that the derivatives market should be legislated and the Democrats were very much against. Also last year was well into the subprime market collapse as the housing market bubble had peaked in 2006.
Though many hedge funds are off shore a very large contributor to the present financial situation is both Goldman Sachs ( Henry Paulson was at the top of this investment bank when the rot started) and JPMorgan, both of which are gaining from the bipartisan handouts ($700billion+) from present day Congress, and miss-using same funds. JPMorgan is being investigated by the FBI for their part in the selling of derivatives to municpalites and educational departments, and the over charging of fees, which has left them in very heavy dept, if not bankrupt ! The banks contributed greatly ( $millions) to the coffers of policitians of both sides  to encourage them refrain from passing regulation and allowing them to  "self regulate".( The contributions paid by the banks to individual politicians is in the public domain)

Todays situation is of no big surprise, even books have been written about it years ago and how to avoid the coming financial tsunami. The investigations of the credit ratings agencies, which falsified the ratings on bad debt as AAA ebfore it was sold on around the world, have turned up emails which show that emplyees new what was going on, and hoped to get rich before the house of cards fell.
 
Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which effectively repealed the Glass-Steagull Act, an at put in place after the great depression to prevent same happening again.This new act allowed consolidation between commercial and investment banks and, to make a long story short,started the road which  bought us to present financial situation. Many well new of the risks when this was allowed, especially the banks involved. I could go on all day about the criminals who worked under Clinton also, such as Franklin Raines who has been found guilty for charges relating to his tenure at Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannia Mae).

The costs to the tax payer to "bail out" the banks, Fannie Mae, AIG and everything else will be borne by higher taxes and greater debt to the nation which no new President can easily overcome. It's aheads I win tails you loose between the Banks and the country. Which ever president comes next needs the banks on his side, which basically requires that he/she is one their side too.
 
  What surprises me about Obama is that his advisors and supporters include established Republicans, including Bush's previous secretary of state Colin Powell (endorsement).Yet maybe that's what they need, every body working together.Yet i the owrd of the previous French ambassador to washington
 " The rest of the world should not have the illusion thatAmerican foreign policy will change.It will only be the nuance that will change.There will be alot more continuity than rupture".
 Will Obama repeal the Patriot act ? and any other laws which present impede on citizens rights which were previously upheld in the Constitution ? Will he bring legislation to regulated the multi $trillion  derivative markets and shadow banking ( which nobody but the bankers understand or know  the true extent of) ? And how will he increase expenditure, cut taxes and pay back the USA debt when the country is already bankrupt ?  I'm curious to find out. Yet especially curious to see how many of the guilty, democrats and republicans, bankers and financiers will be charged and held liable for their part in the present crisis and levels of corruption. Or will they have a truce, a forgiving ?

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on November 01, 2008, 06:32:16 PM
You make some good points Yelnick and surely most everyone (even me--see my previous posts on the matter) was aware of the worsening economic storm on the horizon.   There were the odd books about the coming disaster, even my brother forecast a depression several years ago, but nobody with any influence foresaw the depth and severity of the crash that took place after the bubble burst.  You're quite right there is enough blame to go around between the parties, but the onus has to go on the prevailing administration--Bush was clearly anti-regulation, not pro, and while McCain says he (not Bush) tried to regulate Fannie the idea of Republicans from the Bush wing of the party regulating anything in any serious way is just a fantasy.  You can bet there will be massive regulation of the financial industry next year and Americans are desperate for some bipartisan leadership on this, which they will have a much better chance of getting from the very intelligent O. than they would otherwise.  No doubt, though, that both Repubs and Dems will gang up on the Wall Street types next year, it's the politically popular thing to do, unless right-wing Repubs decide to go refusenik and try to undermine O.'s tenure.  O. will have such huge majorities that this seems unlikely.  O. can't repeal the Patriot Act, that is for Congress to do, and we'll see.  You can bet O.'s foreign policy will be dramatically different from Bush's, O.'s election means that the neo-conservative foreign policy theories are being rejected.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 02, 2008, 01:19:36 AM
Im really new here-first post in Coffee Shop, so I don't want to offend anyone.
Falklands-You are so right.  It shames me that the US waited so long to get into the war.And, I agree with that quote from Satarrigh (hope I spelled that correctly) made on June 4th.
As an American, it has been so embarrassing to have a cartoon character as a President.
The rich really are getting richer and the poor are really getting poorer-I know, I'm one of them.

I am not a young, idealistic girl anymore. I'm a 55 year old, disabled and poor woman.

BUT!  I really believe Obama will make a difference!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 02, 2008, 04:37:03 AM
Welcome Ishtar!
I'm a Brit and I want Obama in the White House. I do believe he will make a difference, globally.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on November 02, 2008, 09:28:32 AM
Least i expend my energies in "fighting" over questions of no importance, i'll just post this for now and come back to this thread later this coming week.

Quote: "Capital must protect itself in every possible manner by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers. This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world. By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished." USA Banker's Magazine, August 25 1924.  unquote
Wishing success to all, but mostly inner peace and tranquility which ever way the game goes.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 02, 2008, 09:34:56 AM



Wishing success to all, but mostly inner peace and tranquility which ever way the game goes.
[/quote]

I've already received several requests from US friends begging me to allow them to sleep on my couch if Obama does NOT win on the 4th.   
This is now seeming highly unlikely (altho we cannot be ever certain with US Elections - remember Bush and Gore), so
the mass arrival of desperate Yanks may not materialise.   If it does - anyone else have a couch going spare?  ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 02, 2008, 10:08:42 AM
I was watching the politics show this morning and they interviewed some men in Virginia.  I was astonished to hear one of them say, they thought Obama was a communist! :o What?!

On Thursdays Question time, which came from Washington, the question was asked whether America should adopt a National health service like Britain and it was vehemently opposed by the Americans on the team.  So does that mean that thousands, maybe millions will still go without proper medical care because they can't afford proper medical insurance?
Can someone tell me why, in general, Americans are afraid of the word socialism?
Is it because they equate it with communism?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: McWawa on November 02, 2008, 10:13:18 AM
Remind them that they are still liable to USA taxes even if living overseas. That is unless they relinquish citizenship at the port of departure, in which case there is an extra special tax for that, which must be paid immediately before exit.
Hope we don't have a huge unflux of coach potatoes !  ::)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 02, 2008, 10:29:05 AM
Hope we don't have a huge unflux of coach potatoes !  ::)

Yelnick, my Yankee pals are NOT couch potatoes!  :D
They just want somewhere to bed down if they have to escape the tyranny of the Repubs.   
:)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 02, 2008, 07:11:54 PM
As Bru said, about the Bush-Gore election:  Wasn't it surprising that the only state with poll problems was Florida, governed by a Bush.  What was even better is that the people sent to investigate were die-hard Republicans.  From what I've read, Gore really did win the election in Florida.  It blows me out that my docile fellow Americans just let that go...I don;t see that happening again, in Florida at least.  Bo more Bush's is why.  But, last night on the news was a story about a drop-off box for ballets was so overfull that anyone could reach in and steal them, if they wanted to.  If, by some trickery, McCain gets into office-is he going to bomb Hanoi for his imprisonment?  Bush Jr.  made up "weapons of mass destruction" so he could go after Daddy Bush's nemesis.  McCain scares me, with all that bottled up anger, he really could do something
dangerous.  And, then die of a stroke and leave us with way right-wing Palin.  Every one I have talked to has been for Obama, but at least one out of seven fears assassination.  Of course, I live in Washington State and this state has gone Democrat as far back as I remember and most of the people I talk to are as poor, or poorer, than I am.  I can't wait for this election to be over, my nerves can't take it.  This is one of the most important elections in decades.  Wish us luck, all my Brit friends.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 02, 2008, 07:42:07 PM
In reply to Ellie:  My fellow Americans are scared shitless of socialism because, since most of our lives, starting with McCarthy in, I think, 1952, we have been told the evils of communism, which they mistake socialism as being the same thing.  My government is famous for using mass scare tactics to keep the average citizen in line.  Why doesn't Mr. or Ms Average Citizen question this?  Because we have been indoctrinated not to, besides, we can always go buy something and feel better.  It's true:  most Americans just are not very sophisticated and been brought up on the ideals of the Wild-West individualism.  The minute the average American hears "raise taxes", they get all up in arms.  They are then unable to even hear how higher taxes would provide better services at little or no cost.  I met a Lord and Lady from your country.  When she told me she was given a bed-sit and a stipend for University, I was astonished.  Made me want to learn more.  And, the more I learned, the more I wished I'd been born a Brit or French.  On our show, "60 Minutes", they ran an hour piece on socialism in Europe.  One French family explained that, although much of their money went to taxes, all they really had to pay for was rent and food.  Day-care was free, transportation was free, health-care was free, etc..  You guys know.  But, as I said, all the average American hears is "raise taxes" and if some politician really doesn't want something to happen he calls it "socialism" and whatever it was is cooked.
I know these things, but am powerless to change them.  We have people in government that know all this and want to change it, and even they are unable to change it.  The "Red Menace" of our youth still has most Americans, even those who were hippies back in the day, running scared.  We are just not educated to question.  Most people with college degrees haven't been educated to understand this.  It is appalling, but there is little anyone can do.  If a show like "60 Minutes" can't even get through, I don't know what it would take.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on November 03, 2008, 11:15:31 AM
Hmm

So I've been following this campaign for what seems like forever. Since before the pundits, polls, and political commentators gave Obama a chance and classed him as a mere 'novelty,' often writting him off with a patronizing chuckle followed by "And now back to our reporter and the Hillary campaign." I've followed every twist and turn/topsy turvy moment and do believe we're on the verge of a significant moment in history.

So much so that I've booked the next 3 days off ;D

In retrospect (for me) there is one defining moment... Where the Obama campaign graduated from the political sphere into a movement of sorts. And for me, this is the 1st speech of his I watched in it's entierity on the night he won his 1st caucus in the state of Iowa and honestly felt (most unexpectedly) moved  ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQo8sRiahwE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQo8sRiahwE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85kIb3KCyU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85kIb3KCyU&feature=related)

For those of us in the U.K that might want to follow the election (live) but do not have cable I present to you a gift  ;)

msnbc.com (http://msnbc.com)
cnn.com (http://cnn.com)
cbsnews.com (http://cbsnews.com)

Any of the above carry live coverage (msnbc is my personal favorite.)

And for those mwc'ers in the states, regardless of your political persuasion. I wish you all good luck.   

bobby

 




 

 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 03, 2008, 11:20:20 AM
Thanks so much for your reply Ishtar...I can understand it all more now.

Our health service was founded 60 years ago and I do feel quite proud of the fact that anyone can go to a doctor / hospital and  receive treatment.  We have free prescription charges for 60yrolds & over and also for those who are unemployed.
I genuinely feel sorry for many Americans who can't afford private health insurance.

I always feel its a sign of a (for want of a better word) 'grown up' society,that takes care of its elderly and those less fortunate health-wise.

Though I think Im right in saying that we are one of the highest taxed countries in the world?  But if it helps take care of the old & the not so well off, I don't mind one bit ;)
Thanks again for your reply Ishtar
elliex
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bod on November 03, 2008, 11:22:40 AM
anyone seen the film RECOUNT? what a fix :(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on November 03, 2008, 11:23:27 AM
Obama Campaigning live in florida

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22887506#22887506 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22887506#22887506)

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 03, 2008, 11:27:28 AM
Just been watching him on Sky News.  The man has such Presense!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 03, 2008, 01:12:23 PM
On the subject of communism, did you know peeps, that communism was actually born in the slums of London??  Interesting innit? :o
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on November 03, 2008, 04:15:50 PM
lololol Innit!

I haven't heard (let alone seen) that word written down for a very long time.   
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 03, 2008, 05:13:48 PM
I thought it was Karl Marx and Friedrick Engels that were the instigators of communism?

If Obama does clinch it tomorrow, I sincerely hope that he will have tight security around him all the time....I see him as 'Kennedy's' successor but don't want to see him have the same terrible ending.
God protect him.
elliex
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: thatollie on November 03, 2008, 05:15:54 PM
Friederick Engels lived in Manchester.

It would be worth McCain getting into office if he bombed Old Trafford.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 03, 2008, 05:17:59 PM
I thought it was Karl Marx and Friedrick Engels that were the instigators of communism?

If Obama does clinch it tomorrow, I sincerely hope that he will have tight security around him all the time....I see him as 'Kennedy's' successor but don't want to see him have the same terrible ending.
God protect him.
elliex

Ellie,
I fear the same as you.   There are so many nutters out there  ...
I just heard his Grandmother sadly died.  If only she could have held on a while longer ...
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 03, 2008, 05:42:47 PM
Karl Marx lived in London! :(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 03, 2008, 05:52:13 PM
Actually, I could be wrong here but I'm sure Karl Marx is actually buried in London. :-\
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: thatollie on November 03, 2008, 05:56:12 PM
Actually, I could be wrong here but I'm sure Karl Marx is actually buried in London. :-\
Highgate Cemetery in London.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 03, 2008, 05:56:48 PM
He's buried in Highgate Cemetary, North London.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 03, 2008, 06:47:49 PM
Thanks Guys..you saved the the trouble of going on 'find a grave.com'! ;D ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 03, 2008, 10:17:53 PM
Ellie,
I'm glad I helped you understand my bull-headed countrymen.  I had a conversation last night with a good friend would is proud to say he is a socialist, as am I.  He brought up that Jesus was a socialist.  I'm not that into Christianity, but an interesting thought,  Of course, both of us Majored in Human Services and were counselors for wears.  Our choices show where we have always stood.  I was an alternative delegate to my State's capital for Jesse Jackson when he ran.  Jackson took our state that year.  I am lucky enough to live on the Wet Coast, rather than the Mid-West.  We are much more liberal here.  We all(for Obama), fear he'll be another Kennedy-being asasination.  As was said earlier, there are a lot of crazies in my country, not to mention, a lot of racists.  I'm just hoping he wins and that security is finely tuned.  I don't know how I will bear another four years of Republican rule.
Ishtar
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 04, 2008, 04:45:45 AM
The first poll results are in, guys. The town of Dixville Notch, NH, always votes just after midnite on Election day to be the first in the country.  Obama 15, McCain 6.  The last time a Dem won was 1968, Hubert Humphrey.

:)

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 04, 2008, 04:51:29 AM
Yay!!!  8)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 04, 2008, 07:37:57 AM
Yeah, NH!  Today, the rest of the country!  My vote went in Thursday-in my County it is all write in ballots.  Yes, the man has presence, a great speaker, acool manner.  But, I truly believe he maens what he has said and will do his damnest to make some changes.  With him as president, we have a Democratic President and a majority in the Senate, so there is a real opportunity for great things
Regarding my earlier comments about my fellow country-men's reaction to "raise taxes".  The Republican smear campaign against our Democratic Governor is she has raised taxes.  Taxes spent on providing free health-care to uninsured children, new roads, better mass transportation, improved social services for the poor and the elderly.  Taxes well spent, I would say.
By the way, why do you all have quotes under your entries and I don't?  Is it because I am a newbie, or is there a way I can do it too?
Maybe I can be a little bit proud to be an American, after tomorrow and at least the next four years.
Peace
Isthar
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 04, 2008, 07:47:41 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruna-zanelli/brits-on-edge-of-seat-too_b_140234.html#co

Guys, I hope this link works.  If not I will have someone more computer lit. to help me post this. It's a piece I wrote for the Huffington Post.
Enjoy!

:)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 04, 2008, 08:16:58 AM
Karl Marx lived in London! :(

Of course he did Ninny..sorry! x

Actually they showed the apartment where he lived on tv the other day....it was in Soho. The commentator was saying it would have been a run down area then but now its all 'poshed up', with a very smart restaurant underneath, called 'Quo Vadis'. I saw a docu some time ago, which told of how Stalin & others came to London for meetings.

Anyway, I digress. Ishtar, of course you should be proud to be an American. Quite honestly, from what my late mother told me, Lord knows what would have happened to us here and Europe without America's aid in WW2.....and she never let me forget that.

I think & hope Obama has clinched it and to quote one of our late primeministers 'Harold MacMillan'....I think we will see a 'wind of change' blowing through not only the U.S but the world as a whole..
Obama comes across as a peacemaker to me,
elliex
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 04, 2008, 08:32:36 AM
Aww Ellie..you're so lovely!   :-* :-* Right back at you.
Yep it was Soho that he lived in which was a stones throw from St Giles and Spittalfields, Shoreditch and the like.  These were areas of extreme poverty and the wealthier inhabitants of London feared an uprising and razing of the city by 'noisome mob'!
In the mid nineteenth century, there was an influx of political radicals from other countries and many an angry meeting was held in these poorer areas,(church halls and the like).  It is therefore widely believed that this is where Karl Marx and Friederick Engels developed their political beliefs.
Bru my dear, You can stand up and shout very proudly indeed that you are an American.  It is a great country filled with great people in my view!  Anyways, you are our cousins and we luvs you!! :-*
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 04, 2008, 10:06:06 AM
Ellie,
Yes, we entered WWII, but much later than I think we should have.  Many suffered and died because our politicians drug their feet. But, then, we did help win it.  I am proud of our brave men who fought and I honor our vets, the few still alive....Thank you.
Ishtar
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Spell Chick on November 04, 2008, 10:28:25 AM
As one of those selfish people who would choose to work hard and reap the benefits, rather than perpetuate the abysmal Great Society Lyndon Baines Johnson so ineptly started, let me quote a couple people.

Karl Marx's Mother: "If only Karl had made capital instead of writing about it!"
Karl Marx: "All I know is I'm not a Marxist."

I, too, believe Obama will win this election. I'm leaving to cast my vote in about a half hour.
I, too, look for changes with a Democrat in the White House and the Senate in their control.

I, however, don't believe it will be for the better.

I expect the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists to test Obama and am fearful. I don't believe that would be an issue with McCain in the White House.
I, too, am worried for my country.

Hawaii's all inclusive government sponsored medical care already folded, didn't it? They didn't have the monies to fund it.
We do have a government sponsored health care system in the US. It is called the Veteran's Hospital System. It sucks and no one with any other option uses it. Like in Canada and the UK, all resources are rigidly controlled and one must wait for services in a manner Americans are not used to.

Wish my poor country luck.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Spell Chick on November 04, 2008, 10:29:22 AM
Ishtar,

You can add things to your signature line in the Profile section.

Patti
Here to help
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 04, 2008, 11:31:17 AM
Hi Ninny ;D
D'you know I love reading,watching about Russian history and find it fascinating. BTW, if you haven't already seen the ad, theres a tv programme starting Monday night about Stalin(think its bbc2)
That progamme I watched about him (Stalin) & others coming to London, also included a slot about some of them visiting a town/mining community up north and it showed that some streets had been named after them,'Lenin' etc. 
Maybe there might have been some sort of 'revolution' here or thoughts of it you think?

Ishtar, Ive visited the beaches of Normandy and Ive also seen the many war cemetaries there in Northern France..and particularly when Ive walked on those beaches, Ive thought of the young American lives lost there....I checked this, it was 2,000. Made me quite tearful.
I can understand your fears SpChick. The world seems a very unstable place at the moment..and I think it unfair that it expects the U.S. to solve all the problems?
For example, I was watching the news earlier and it said about the U.S government with new president 'solving 'the Middle East crisis 'Israel/& Palestine!
To my mind, only those countries themselves can do that by showing tolerance & forbearing to each other?
and I do wish your country good luck ;)
elliex

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 04, 2008, 11:42:50 AM
Thanks Ellie, ;D I know it's asking a lot, but could you please give me a huge nudge on Monday, 'cos otherwise I'll forget and I'd really like to see it! :-* :-*  (I'm called Ninny for a reason) :-[  I love history with a passion and am at the moment reading 'The Biography of London' by Peter Ackroyd, it's amazing, but a huge book to get through!  ;D  ;D  Thanks Sweetiepots :-*
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 04, 2008, 04:49:49 PM
Will definitely give you a nudge on Monday Ninny my friend!

elliex
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: jeanette on November 04, 2008, 05:46:16 PM
well, folks, it's looking good for Obama, and I wish him all the best. If I was a US citizen he'd have my vote.

Sorry to put a damper on things, but the way my US friends are excited tonight that he might win reminds me of that time back in the nineties where we Brits finally felt Labour was going to get back in. Tony Blair seemed like one of us, an ordinary bloke who wasn't going to stand for the sleaze, waste or unfairness of the previous regime. It was a time of immense hope and expectation, for me and my friends anyway. The theme tune of the party was 'Things can only get better'

And how we were swindled.

It's probably a true statement that all politicians are decent and principled until such time as they reach power, when they are truly tested, and most are found wanting. I deeply hope that Barack Obama is a man without price.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 04, 2008, 06:00:22 PM


It's probably a true statement that all politicians are decent and principled until such time as they reach power, when they are truly tested, and most are found wanting. I deeply hope that Barack Obama is a man without price.

I can't explain why but I truly believe he is. 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Gyppo on November 04, 2008, 07:07:07 PM
Well...  They do happen occasionally.  I just hope you're right.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 04, 2008, 10:48:55 PM
Than you, Spchick.  I will try that for later.
As of now, Pacific Time:  Out of 270 electoral votes needed, Obams now has 207, McCain only 123.  The real way the vote here is, the popular vote mattered not, it is the electoral vote that counts.  Each state, depending on it's population has a certain number of electoral votes.  Example:  Washington has only 11 electoral votes.  California, on the other hand, has a bunch more.  I have no idea how many, my guess is in the 20's.
I don't know if this info helps, or if you guys even have an interest in how our government works.  The point is-Obams really has cinched it, at least according to the newscasters and the numbers are now showing.  The votes are not even in from my West Coast  have not even been entered into the race, and we, as long as I can remember for WA and CA go democrat.  Washington has only like 11 electoral votes, but California--they have a lot, like in the 20's, I believe. (I could be all wrong on these numbers, but my principle is right).
The real point here being--OBAMA WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE USA!
My computer isn't working well-took half an hour to write this, the cursor freezes up, so I better post while I can.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: pajol on November 04, 2008, 11:44:43 PM
yeah!!!!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 05, 2008, 02:26:00 AM
Please forgive me if this is not the proper forum for this, but I felt a need to express my feelings on this Great Day:
My mother married a Black man before I was born.  They divorced when I was only 9 months old, but he did not divorce me.  He was not my biological father, but you would never have known it.  It was he  who taught me to read, encouraged me to go to college and supported my dream of writing.  As an only child, I was loved with the unconditional love of this man until his death in my late forties.. Here's to You Daddy.  And, to all those until recently, unrecognized Black WWII Black vets, like you.
My Daddy earned a full scholarship for the University of Washington in his home town in South Dakota.  When he arrived at the university, in person, the scholarship disappeared.  Purely due to his Race.  He became successful, anyway.  He earned a honorary Libraran Degree of the love of all the people's on his route.  Here's to you, Daddy.  I wish you could have lived to see this day!

Let me make this clear:  I did not vote for Barck Obama because of his race, but because of his beliefs, values and ideas to change my country.  Buy, I wanted to pay tribute to a man of integrity, dignity, vast intelligence only outweighed by his love.  My Daddy.
With pride in my being American.
Ishtar
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: thatollie on November 05, 2008, 02:39:51 AM
A deserved victory, Obama's campaign was a masterstroke of political genius.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ninny on November 05, 2008, 03:20:39 AM
Thanks Ellie! ;D ;D  Here's some flowers for you! ;D ;D

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/tucmuc/oth/flower002.gif)
 
Congratulations America!  I think Obama will make you proud again, as you should be!  We all have our fingers crossed for you!! ;D
(Now...for the luv of Gawd, can we please get rid of Gordon Brown!)  >:(
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Mark H on November 05, 2008, 04:27:03 AM
Would the American people vote in an atheist native American?
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 05, 2008, 05:15:37 AM
President Barack Obama! 
HE DID IT!  What a night.  CONGRATULATIONS AMERICA and the rest of us.  This amazing man is going to change this sad world - I know he is.  Like so many others I was in tears listening to him speak (and boy, can he talk!).  It's a wonderful achievement for him and America and for all of us who believed he could do it.   He did it!   Now it's up to us to help him fulfil his promise.  We can do that too.
YES WE CAN!

 ;D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Spell Chick on November 05, 2008, 06:00:26 AM
Please remember Bill Clinton could talk, too.

I'm glad the world is happy today. But ....


The voting here was a mess. The lines were long, hours long. Six hours long. Machines weren't working. Incorrect ballots were in precincts.

If this is the best politicians can do when it is in their own best interest, we are in a heap of trouble when it isn't in their own interest.

What we need today is some statesmen. All we get is politicians.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on November 05, 2008, 08:36:14 AM
Just got in and umm yeah. Most call it a landslide but I call it a wrap!!!

There are few words that I can muster so instead I'll share reactions from across the globe.

Australia
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12451_large.jpg)

Japan
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12453_large.jpg)

India
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12504_large.jpg)

Indonesia
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12444_large.jpg)

Philippines
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12426_large.jpg)

Israel
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12428_large.jpg)

Greece
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12411_large.jpg)

Shanghi
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12377_large.jpg)

Paris
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12505_large.jpg)

London (And true to form Londoners drank till they passed out lol)
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/599/slide_599_12413_large.jpg)




 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 05, 2008, 08:43:09 AM
Hmmmm ... I do hope that isnt you, BobbyDigital, drunk as a skunk ...  ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on November 05, 2008, 08:43:30 AM
A deserved victory, Obama's campaign was a masterstroke of political genius.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

My my Thatollie... How you political rhetoric has changed. Do you support Manchester United too?

I'm just kidding with you but that post did make me laugh. Considering your previous views...  ;D :D ;D :D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 05, 2008, 09:55:10 AM
Would the American people vote in an atheist native American?

Very interesting question Mark!

Many congratulations to Obama..however I still fear for his safety. I was watching a tv programme a few days ago, where they were interviewing some men down South at a men's club and they said quite categorically, they would never vote for a black man as prseident.
I fear there may be many in that country who will nt be happy at seeing a black family in the White house,
May God bless and protect him and his young family.
ellie x

p.s. Ishtar, that was a very moving tribute to your 'Daddy', he sounded a lovely man.  My lovely dad died in a terrible road crash when he was just 47 and I was 9.  I still miss him and cry for him.
God bless you & yours x
& thank-you for the lovely flowers Ninnyx :-*
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: whybother on November 05, 2008, 10:17:25 AM
If I had to choose between the two of them, I would have picked Obama too. Mc Cain was just downright scary. Mind you, I wouldn't want to be in Obama's shoes. I reckon there might be one or two loonies who aren't too happy about their new President. I wouldn't want to be working on the Presidential Detail of the Secret Service once he moves into the White House, that's for damn sure!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 05, 2008, 10:27:20 AM
What you say is very true but let's try NOT to send out negative fears.  I'm a great believer that thoughts become reality so let's keep our thoughts positive for the new President.
an we do that?
YES WE CAN!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: thatollie on November 05, 2008, 10:30:30 PM
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

My my Thatollie... How you political rhetoric has changed. Do you support Manchester United too?

I'm just kidding with you but that post did make me laugh. Considering your previous views...  ;D :D ;D :D


Upon reflection, McCain was never going to bomb Old Trafford, therefore I would've voted Obama.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Gyppo on November 06, 2008, 03:55:52 AM
Upon reflection, McCain was never going to bomb Old Trafford, therefore I would've voted Obama.

Ollie, you never know.  The US has a well established reputation for hitting the wrong place ;-)  I still recall Dad telling me "When the Germans fly the English duck.  When the English fly the Germans duck.  When the Americans fly...  Everyone ducks."

Having offloaded this hoary old classic Gyppo now returns the thread to its original purpose.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Spell Chick on November 06, 2008, 01:08:14 PM
The best politician money can buy ....

The US Presidential Race cost $866 million.
Obama raised $639 million and spent $573 million - 363 million British pounds or 450 million Euro spent
McCain raide $360 million and spent $293 million (almost half) - 187 million British pounds or 230 Euro million spent

Domocrats, the "party of the poor" tend to have a lot of rich people on the donation front. Movie folks and Oprah   ;)

So the person here who is worried about Sarah's clothing can just relax. The lent clothing will be returned and the "poor" people will be carefully tended to.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Mark H on November 06, 2008, 01:12:54 PM
Patti

Can you answer my question?

Quote
Would the American people vote in an atheist native American?

Assuming of course he had all those millions you mention.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Spell Chick on November 06, 2008, 01:18:49 PM
We are a pretty stupid lot, by and large. We would vote for anyone who could perform the right song and dance. It is far too difficult to truly understand geopolitics and macroeconomics. Neither of those fits into a 30-second sound bite.

I am assuming the Native American is handsome and/or cute. That's important. And tall. Almost every man elected has been the taller of the two candidates.

Aren't you glad we are a world power?

I've read that the total IQ of the world is remaining constant. The population is growing. 
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Juniperus on November 06, 2008, 04:12:20 PM
Countries with two-party system like USA and UK seem very odd when you live in a country with several large parties. Whenever the party in power changes, things change radically. Now that USA will have a democrat president, foreign policy, economical policy etc. will most likely be very different. In Finland we have 8 parties in the parliament and 4 of them are in the coalition government. Since this requires a lot of compromises, things do not change so radically even if the government changes. Also the newly elected president traditionally resigns from the party he or she used to belong, because the president represents the people of Finland, not any specific party.

Anyway, also in Finland most of the people are glad that Obama won. :D
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 07, 2008, 12:16:33 AM
Thank you, Ellie, my Daddy was an exceptional man.  Who knows, if he'd been born 45 years later, he could have been a candidate.  He had the intelligence, the dignity, and he would have had the education.
The night Obama won, I live in a smallish city, so there was no dancing in the street.  I did go to the grocery store and shouted at everyone:  people in parking lot, people in store, cashiers... OBAMA!  Called all my friends or they called me.  I think I was, am still in, shock.  What this means for my country!  I guess voting does matter.  Scores of young people and African-Americans registered and voted, not to mention us convicted felons who aren't supposed to vote, but did.  (Why should a mistake I made in 1984 take away my right to vote.  Aren't I a citizen, too?).  We did it!  Like I said, I'm still in shock.  Can't think of anything intelligent to say, except WE WON.
Wish I'd been in Seattle to celebrate with all those others, but there will be plenty more to celebrate in the  next four years.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ambrosia Tatum on November 07, 2008, 01:32:37 PM
Obama has likely won the nomination thanks to gullible young people with no sense of history, easily led by a silver tongued politician who he tells them he stands for change.  What the gullible fail to notice is that there is no plan for this miraculous change.


I think it could be partly gullible young people with not sense of history. I am 27 and love history. I soak it up. I also feel it is due to the younger generation being ignorant by not reading over the nominies plans and read up on the current issues facing America. It is never good to vote for someone just because they are charamatic and a good speaker. To a point Hitler was charasmatic and a good speaker. I just hope he follows through on what he promised during his campaign, even though he would flip-flop.

I voted for the other candidate.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 07, 2008, 04:35:39 PM
Thats the problem AT, but I think we can all be fooled by someone who is charismatic.
I joined the New Labour party in '96 and was swept along with the charismatic Tony Blair (Ive never belonged to a party before) and I worked for them in '97.....
but I resigned from the party when Blair followed Bush into Iraq in 2003.

What bothers me are the 'expectations' of the American people from Obama. There are a lotta problems to sort out, specially the financial crisis, the health service, as well as 2 ongoing wars.

Im wondering what the relationship between Obama and our PM Brown will be?  Obama wants to bring U.S solders out of Iraq and put them into Afghanistan and I think he will expect the Brits to do the same.....send more troops to Afghanistan. There seems to be no end to that conflict.

Obama will have a lot on his plate and I wish him well and good luck but don't expect miracles.

ellie
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 07, 2008, 04:46:23 PM
Did anyone watch his first Press Conference this evening?   He set out his immediate plans - warned that it was not going to be easy but he was determined.  He looked confident and very 'Presidential'.  I truly believe in him.
Everybody give him a chance to prove himself.  He's only been Pres.Elect for 3 days!
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on November 07, 2008, 10:25:38 PM
Not referring to present company, of course, but anyone who thinks Obama is merely doing a "song and dance" to trick the electorate is (so far as I can see, and I have studied this campaign) foolish or bitter-partisan--or simply out of touch with reality.  Spend some time to research his campaign and position and his experience carefully and you will see that he is highly intelligent (he was a law professor as well as United States Senator), deeply compasssionate, extremely skillful politically  (with as much or more experience as JFK, Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln) and has surrounded himself with the top tier of the best of the American political and economic, not to mention diplomatic, thinkers.  He revolutionized campaign tactics (over half his money came from small donations from individual Americans; he completely out-organized the opposition) and came along at a time when the knee-jerk Republicans, in their highly politicized, highly self-interested (read:  financial banditry), and just plain stupid tactics have destroyed American prestige around the world and driven our economy (and that of the rest of the world) to its knees.  We can thank God a superior individual like Obama has come along to help us climb out of the deep hole the Republicans have dug.  His election was hailed around the world with elation and a well-justified hope for the future, but we have enormous challenges to confront, and so does he.  Obama will be governing to the center as a pragmatist, not as an ideologue (as his predecessors did).  If he can restrain the more aggressive leftists in Congress, he will succeed and be able to cooperate with Brown, Sarkozy and other world leaders to attempt to rescue a deeply wounded global economy.  We should all wish him only the best in this effort. 

Meanwhile the Republicans need to do some soul-searching, as to whether they should continue trying to loot the economy through big-business excess and intrude in people's private lives, or return to the basically moderate and humane individual freedom and social responsibility of Abraham Lincoln.  If Obama lets the left wing run wild, the wild-eyed right wingers will have their revenge in the Congressional elections of 2010.  If Obama stays on course, the only hope for the Republicans will be to return to moderation.  Getting drunk on false images of the opposition won't help.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ambrosia Tatum on November 08, 2008, 12:41:26 PM
Traditionally republicans are about government not intruding in Americans lives. The democrates are traditionally for big government. I have gone over his plan for "spreading the wealth". The only way he can do that is take from one person and give that money to another person. I am unsure about this new stimulus package being talked about by Obama. What are the guidelines going to be for that? How much does a person have to make to be eligable? The last stimulus package I was not eligable for and I could have used the money. A single mother of three, I was only able to work and make a little over $1,000 last year. For the stimulus that took place early this year you had to make $3,000 to qualify. I was upset. I just hope he can hold up to his promises and not dodge questions from the media like he did at his first press conference.

I find it hillarious how anyone can say Obama is a messiah. One thing many do not understand is that a president can only do what congress will allow. Bush was republican and congress is majority democrate. Of course the democrate ran comgress will oppose anything Bush proposed. So if congress make it hard for Obama to follow through on his promises will he then be called a bad president. All that I have read he spent millions on campaign commercials, that stupid 30-min infomercial about himself, along with all the movie stars he got to promote him. It also got to me the voter intimidation in some places. Especially the Black Panthers in Pennsylvania. To me he bought the election, but I am willing to sit back and give him a chance to prove himself and honor his promises. 

Ellie, I did see his press conference. Wasn't the comment about former First Lady Mrs. Reagan very 'presidental' of him. With things like that and dodging questions makes me wonder. 

I recommend going to this site. It is interesting to know what those individuals trying to be US citizens have to know before becoming naturalized. It is also interesting how much the US citizens do not know themselves which falls back on the comment about being ignorant and not knowing one's history  http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=mini_home&mini_id=57028
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Bru on November 08, 2008, 02:07:11 PM


I find it hillarious how anyone can say Obama is a messiah. One thing many do not understand is that a president can only do what congress will allow. All that I have read he spent millions on campaign commercials, that stupid 30-min infomercial about himself, along with all the movie stars he got to promote him. It also got to me the voter intimidation in some places. Especially the Black Panthers in Pennsylvania. To me he bought the election, but I am willing to sit back and give him a chance to prove himself and honor his promises. 

Ellie, I did see his press conference. Wasn't the comment about former First Lady Mrs. Reagan very 'presidental' of him. With things like that and dodging questions makes me wonder. 



Ambrosia T,  I am amazed you condescended to  vote for him! 
Do you think you might have fared better if McCain had won?
As for Obama 'buying the election'- c'mon!  ;D
IMO, the comment about Mrs Reagan was funny although I knew immediately he would have apologise and he did.
Did he dodge some questions?  I thought he merely delayed answering for the time being.
As I've said before ... for now, give him a break. It is VERY early days.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ambrosia Tatum on November 08, 2008, 08:18:16 PM
I voted McCain.

When a reporter asked him about taxes and to just go back over his plan he said in one of his speaches he did not answer the question but tipped toed around it. It was the question about raising taxes on the top 4% of America.

I am just bothered that the media was all about Obama and all I saw were bad things toward the republican party. The liberal stations, both television and radio, chose who was going to be president and put Obama in a halo and McCain in horns. Just my feelings.

I am all about waiting for Obama to prove my feelings wrong. If he does I will have no problem in admitting my thoughts were wrong and support him.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on November 09, 2008, 05:47:55 PM
You obviously don't like O. very much, Ambrosia, and that's your right.  Do try to keep an open mind for awhile, though, because the odds are that he will be a great president, despite the many hurdles and roadblocks in any new president's way and the intense challenges left to him by the failed presidency of George W. Bush.  Obama will have a "honeymoon" from most people to accomplish things on a bipartisan basis.  If you expect him to act like a Republican, you are likely to be disappointed because he is not one.  But if you keep in mind getting things done for the American people, he will do that if he can--and that depends on Republicans helping him.  About spreading the wealth, the progressive income tax in America is a redistributive tool and has been since about 1913.  He is talking about not continuing the reprehensible tax cuts for those that make more than $250,000 adjusted gross income--that's AFTER deductions--so that the middle class can have a break.  People that make more than $250,000 after deductions are relatively very, very rich.  And he might not do even that in the current economic troubles.  About him dodging questions, he does not do this.  Read transcripts if you don't believe me.  About Black Panthers forcing people in Philadelphia to vote for him, I think that's ludicrous.  I haven't heard anything about the Black Panthers being an active group for 20 years or more.  But Obama was elected by a nationwide landslide.  I really think it would be better to get your facts straight.  One place where I can agree with you, though, is that the media was very pro-Obama.  This came about because Obama was by far the superior candidate.  The American people are not so gullible, though, that they have to be spoon fed the opinions of the media to be able to decide whom to support.  The facts were clear to everyone which is why 90% of Americans wanted a change from the Republicans (only 11% believed America was on the right track).  If the media picked the president, he would have got 90% of the vote.   Yet Obama only won 7% more votes than McCain (53-46)--for two reasons:  some people liked McCain (I did to some extent) and heard the Republican message (which I thought was despicable).  7% remains a substantial margin, and it allowed O. to receive twice as many electoral college votes as McCain (so Pennsylvania was irrelevant).  Fact is by far the most states went for Obama, and the reason is he earned it through massive organization and brilliant politics, as well as inspirational vision  (all of which McCain lacked).  So try to hold your cards awhile, O. just might justify your support.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ambrosia Tatum on November 09, 2008, 09:14:44 PM
I hope so eric. I have read he already plans when he gets inagurated to stop stem cell research, and stop the drilling in Utah for natural gas/oil. If a part of his plan was for oil independance then by him saying he will do this goes against his word.

There was video by a journalist outside of a voting area where there were two black men dressed in what looked like black panther garb holding night sticks. Even blocking some voters from entering and telling them a black man is going to win this election. When they gave my state to Obama only about 8% of the polling places had reported. Out of over thousands of polling places how could a winner be declared out of 8%.
 
The American people are not so gullible, though, that they have to be spoon fed the opinions of the media to be able to decide whom to support.
  I listened to the Howard Stern Show. On the show a person went around to ask people who they supported. When they said Obama the man asked them if they agreed with his pro-life stance and if they felt he made a good choice in choosing Palin as his running mate(i.e. using McCain's stances and saying them as Obama's). Every single person agreed with with the views believing they were Obama's. The same thing happened when a guy was for McCain, but agreed with Obama's views. I feel they were basing their decisions on the media.


As much as this was an upset and I am trying to grasp Obama's issues I will give him a chance. I know it will take a couple if not all his term to be able to have things done he wishes. I am very open-minded, more so than my parents are. I know that at 27 I probably do not know as much as you, but I likethink I am updated by reading up on current issues, and read up on history.

I am happy that with all the fighting blacks have had to do, to have the rights they have now, that there is a black president. A great representation that no matter who you are, or where you came from, you can accomplish your dreams in America.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: eric on November 09, 2008, 09:41:45 PM
I agree with you Ambrosia about the wonderful symbolism of this election.  I hope I am right about the promise of the administration too, we sure need some good news. 

As far as Obama's plans, he doesn't take office for more than two months.  He will not stop stem cell research, it's the other way around.  Just recently Bush drastically expanded oil & gas drilling in very special federal lands in Utah, not the places already set for drilling but beautiful reserves where no drilling was expected.  This would destroy national treasures for not very much oil.  Of course Obama will reverse that, but Bush did it just so he could say to people like you--Look, Obama's not letting us drill!  It's just political games, it does not affect the real issues. 

The only people I know of who dressed like Black Panthers and carried sticks in the news recently were the rebels in the Congo.  If black men with night sticks prevented people from voting that would be a violation of federal law and the FBI would be all over it like flies on honey, so I don't think it happened, at least in the way you imagined.  133 million Americans voted, and these two thugs with nightsticks probably didn't threaten too many of them, even if they existed (which I doubt).  I think the video you saw was not real. 

Howard Stern is an idiot and the segment he aired sounds obviously hoked up.  Of course some Americans are foolish, but so is Howard Stern (who has said racist things not too long ago).  None of these things have the legitimacy of warm spit in my view.  Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, people like that are idiots, cynics, and hypocrites.  Not very nice, either.  That's what I think, anyway.

News media are very good at predicting outcomes at polling places from correlating actual voting patterns with exit polling (interviews of voters before the polls close to find out what they think and how they voted).  Most news sources did not do this very much in the current election cycle, they were much more conservative than they had been before.  The national news media were pretty careful about Pennsylvania.  But anyone could use the existing technology to make an early call, maybe that's what happened here. 

Finally, this was not an upset.  It had been expected for months.  Obama won with an electoral college landslide that dwarfed the winnings of the last two Democratic candidates.  This could be a major realignment in American politics, depending on how the next few years go--we'll just have to see.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Kate B on November 09, 2008, 11:27:03 PM
Forgive my ignorance...this is however a serious question.

What are Obamas policies?

His rise seems, by all accounts, quite meteoric. What is his history?

Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 10, 2008, 04:43:00 AM
Ambrosia,
First of all, I want to say, I am sorry you didn't get the incentive.  I know you really probably needed it. I was lucky, my Social Security was enough for me to qualify.  I also think that all those single parents on Public Assistance should have been able to claim that money to qualify.  That was truly an injustice.
If you are a single mother with three kids and only made $1000 last year, you are probably on some sort of state assistance.  In my state, Washington, want to know what my friend with two kids received from Public Assistance 25 years ago?  $450 a month.  Want to know what a single mother with two kids gets now, after 25 years of inflation?  $450 a month.
Social Security, on the other hand, gets yearly cost of living increases.  More during Clinton's administration than Bush's.
My point is, Democrats, as a rule, are more willing to spend money on Social Services than Republicans.
And those tax raises for the richer folks?  Well, just how many millions does it take to live on?  I often sit and wonder at the greed and power factor in that.  I am disabled and get $650 a month and with my rent subsidy, live okay.  If I had $2000 a month-well-I could have a nicer place and afford a car.  But, if I had a million or so a year-I have no idea what I'd spend it all on.
So, I think if those with that much money were taxed a bit more and we single mothers and disabled people  could maybe get a bit more is not such a bad idea.
Haven't you fellow Americans been listening to what our Brit friends have been saying about having higher taxes, but are happy to do so because they get so many services for free?  Maybe these thoughts brand me as a (gasp!) socialist. Yes, and proud to be one.  If Obama does what he says he will, maybe our country will become a bit more socialist-not much, probably, but one can but hope.
Ishtar
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 10, 2008, 09:11:44 AM
Forgive my ignorance...this is however a serious question.

What are Obamas policies?

His rise seems, by all accounts, quite meteoric. What is his history?



I would like to know more too Mrs B. Is it true hes only been in politics 4 years (its what I heard)..if so, then his rise to president elect is truly meteoric. He must be something special.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ambrosia Tatum on November 10, 2008, 12:21:09 PM
Ishtar, that little over $1,000 I made was from me working, and hard too while I was pregnant with my daughter. Work all the way up until I had her, and came to find out I was having labor pains for a month (just thought it was braxton-hicks). After leaving my ex-boyfriend, finally realizing how controlling and abusive he was, I have had to have help from the state. My daughter turned one last month. I also have two sons from a previous marriage. I only get assistance for myself and daughter (my ex-husband and I have joint custody and they attend school with him). For my daughter and myself we only get $336 and around $260 in food stamps. With vehicle insurance, diapers, wipes, and gas it does not seem to last long, and I am forced to ask family for money. I also have to take care of debts he had put in my name with some story about not wanting his ex-wife to find him. The extra money the stimulus would have brought would have helped a great deal. I hope with Obama's stimulus plan I will not be passed over again.

I have been trying to find a job since if let my daughter's father but with my credit (thanks to him), and the job market in my area I have not had any callbacks. It has been disheartening. I very much want to have a job and not have to go to the state, or family, for help.

That is why I probably like reading and writing so much. It gives me an escape for reality and a place where anything is possible.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 12, 2008, 12:10:46 AM
Ambrosia,
That is what I meant.  Perhaps with Obama you would be eligible for more help.  More support for abused women, more help with education, health-care, childcare, more creation of jobs.  Maybe it can be recognized what a struggle it is for women in your situation.  I've been there, black and blue (many times by different men) with a child I had at 16, having to ask my family for help.  Back then there were no disposable diapers, so I didn't have that expense.
"You can call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one", John Lennon. Perhaps we all have placed too much faith and hope that Obama will help this country change and all the citizens will be recognized.  But, I can't help but hope he will.  It may happen that he won't, however, at least for now, I have to have the faith that he can and will.  One of my biggest issues is with the poor, I have a BA in Social Services, so I have seen the impact the cutbacks in that area have had.  I've worked my ass of trying to find housing, health-care. funding for battered women, counseling, etc. for people in need, while our countries money was spent on a war that was based on "weapons of mass destruction" that haven't been found.
My sentence structure here is awful here, but this is something I am so passionate about.
Blessings,
Ishtar
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Kate B on November 14, 2008, 07:13:03 PM
I would like to know more too Mrs B. Is it true hes only been in politics 4 years (its what I heard)..if so, then his rise to president elect is truly meteoric. He must be something special.

Its seems my original question is either too trite to be answered or too difficult to be answered. Sigh...
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: thatollie on November 15, 2008, 02:08:01 AM
Obama has been in the US Senate for 4 years, but was in Illinois Senate as a state legislator for 7 years.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: ellie on November 16, 2008, 11:17:46 AM
THanks Ollie ;)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: thatollie on November 16, 2008, 11:36:36 AM
Add on all the community initiatives since the mid 80's and he doesn't look like the rookie he's made out to be.

The Smiler's a veteran.
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: bobby digital on November 17, 2008, 03:53:52 PM
Forgive my ignorance...this is however a serious question.

What are Obamas policies?

His rise seems, by all accounts, quite meteoric. What is his history?

Umm

The core of Obama's "meteoric" rise is based on the fact that he is entire campaign was funded by individual donations. He owes $0.00 To any special interest group and therefore can make policies or changes as he sees fit.

His policies (off the top my head...)

Forcing health insurance companies to provide total cover without discrimination... Currently in the states if an individual discovers they have a illness like cancer/sickle cell, the insurance company can (by law) refuse that individual cover and health care costs on the grounds that the illness is hereditary.  ::)

Provide tax cuts to companies that keep jobs in the united states... As it stands companies that outsource their jobs to places like china are eligible to claim the same tax breaks as companies who employ an 101% American workforce...

Aim to make America energy independent within 8-10 years. He plans to do this by providing grants to auto makers that are willing to invest in new technology/the production of fuel efficient vehicles of tomorrow... Vehicles that use new fuels like the bp's 'gas/petrol to air' and exxonmobils clean fuel tech. And also by investing/harnessing alternative forms of energy like wind/solar and bio fuels which would drastically reduce fuel bills and also stop placing billions in saudi pockets (which of course has implications on national defense and terror spending.)

Commit the states to all the global initiatives on climate change that Bush refused... Nothing more needs to be said here...

Engage in talks with states that hold a "unfavorable" view of America... As opposed to bush's policy of Bomb first and ask questions later...

Withdraw all troops from Iraq and invest the ten billion America currently spends in Iraq back into the domestic economy...

Close torture Guantanamo bay...

His most popular policy with young voters: Enable any student willing to invest his time in the local community (community organisers/national service/social care/social assistance etc etc) with the funds to attend Uni... Basically uni fees in the states are astronomical. However, should the student commit to assist in goverenment programs beneficial to that state or community. Their uni fees will be taken care of...

Reduce the cost of medicine... Pharmaceutical companies basically collude and can price (again by law) their product at  whatever $ they see fit.

Tighten gun laws... Take military designed hardware out of the domestic trade ie ak47s, Oozies, and chain guns...

Regulate wall street::)... About time!!!

Obviously there tons more but the ground breaking thing is that by giving a particular political party large donations, industries then hold clout with that party and in turn can get laws introduced that allow them to make zillions. Obama's campaign has largely been about reversing that trend.

He was funded by the people... And from early on refused money from every industry/cooperation. All of whom were practically salivating at the mouth and losing their minds because they couldn't donate. This particular aspect of his campaign is what allowed him to beat Hillary Clinton in the primaries. Particularly since she was funded by those very same special interest groups. 

Interestingly enough the same system of special interest donations applies here in the U.K. For instance, the wholesale cost of fuel (heating and electricity) has dropped drastically. However, we the consumer are yet to benefit from this reduction in cost. In short the reason is that the ceo's came together and donated to Blair/Brown and in turn can basically charge us whatever they please. ::)

But what's most worrying to me is that the same insurance companies that have obliterated the health care system in the States are starting to rear their heads here. And their 'donations' have already been made  :-[

bobby   

         


Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Spell Chick on November 17, 2008, 05:51:40 PM
I always thought of Microsoft as big business.

Education here is big business, especially when they have their hands out for grants that fund private research.

Obama's campaign contributors.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638 (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638)
Title: Re: So Barack Obama clinched it...
Post by: Ishtar on November 17, 2008, 08:23:32 PM
Thank you, Booby, for  articulating things so well.  I have "gut" feelings about Obama, but you put it into words.
Thanks. Ishtar