My Writers Circle

The Coffee Shop => The Coffee Shop => Topic started by: RINKA on September 14, 2007, 07:37:54 AM

Title: is there true love for real
Post by: RINKA on September 14, 2007, 07:37:54 AM
people travel a thousand mile looking for love. if you are sure you've it , keep it. It doesn't come twice as good as the first time. There is always a flaw some where in every new phase :D
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: German Voodoo on September 14, 2007, 09:08:01 AM
*edit the thread's title
*guts and feelings would be the same thing
*last time I had this debate on a forum, it lasted weeks and we started talking about the emotive ability of ants
*yes. ants.

No, I don't believe in predestination. I do believe in the chance that two people can be so complimentery to each other that it simply works, and love is the result. I want to believe in true love, but I also don't.

One person out of billions and he could end up being ethnic? No way.
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: Amie on September 14, 2007, 09:17:16 AM
What's wrong with being ethnic Voodoo?
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: German Voodoo on September 14, 2007, 09:23:24 AM
Would you marry an afrikan man? I don't think he'd suit your taste. Nothing wrong with being ethnic. Not my taste by far.
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: Amie on September 14, 2007, 09:33:19 AM
African?  Possibly, depend on his personality obviously.  Culturally it might be a problem, but in terms of ethnicity, not at all. 
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: German Voodoo on September 14, 2007, 09:37:28 AM
I admit, a south afrikan man might be alright, but he'd be white in my view; should he be anything else I simply cannot be with him. I was born with male inclination and I was born not to be attracted to men of color. Shall we argue since I wasn't born with blonde hair, I should shave into skinhead?
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: Mark H on September 14, 2007, 02:54:41 PM
Love is just a minor ailment (like mild flu) you eventually get over it.
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: McWawa on September 14, 2007, 03:48:48 PM
You can find alot of Ture love in Sweden.   I can't go into explicit details, especially as all references would not be of personnal experience but merely anecdotal or conjecture. Many a nordic relationship in the making over Tures of all social standing and age, and more than a few Tures found love and passion long and lasting.


bryan
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on September 14, 2007, 06:16:59 PM
I have found love where I did not expect.  Passion without lust.  Love without demand. 

You never know until you find it.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on September 14, 2007, 09:34:10 PM
Love...hmmm. Risky, wonderful, amazing, freeing, validating, safe, rare, accepting, unexpected, commitment, friendship...

Can't quite find the correct words.

It sure took a long time to find a lasting, weathering love. I think I have.
 
Nadine

(Sure kissed a lot of frogs  :o first!)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Mark H on September 15, 2007, 02:03:14 AM
Rivit
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Bru on September 15, 2007, 06:12:43 AM
Geez, the younger members here are SO cynical!  Could it be a defence mechanism???  ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on September 15, 2007, 08:40:19 AM
Bru,

What do you think, is there true love for real?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on September 15, 2007, 09:03:01 AM
Yes.  But it doesn't always last forever.   I've been there twice.  One I married, one I didn't, and a third one slipped away because for once I let my head rule my heart.

Quote:  "People enter your life for a reason, for a season, or forever."

The great trick lies in recognising each for what it is and never confusing them.  I'm still learning ;-)

Gyppo

PS:  As  for my 'Muse', she is the most constant and fascinating mistress any man could ask for ;-)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: thatollie on September 15, 2007, 10:58:25 AM
I don't believe in predestination, like V said, "I do believe in the chance that two people can be so complimentery to each other that it simply works, and love is the result."
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Hmmm on September 15, 2007, 11:04:08 AM
I think true love can be for real, if you work on it and can compromise. You would die for someone you really loved, but all the same, two people who really loved each other could argue and fight.

My parents were married for half a century. They were made for each other. They never raised their voices at each other. They never had a fight. I know this is true from several sources.

Mum took a swipe at dad occasionally for his annoying habits, but he didn't take a swipe back. He copped it because he loved my mother more than life itself, so to speak.

But I think true love comes with people who are similar and also opposite. They must be tolerant of each other, willing to compromise, willing to sacrifice, never argue or fight, and work on the relationship for the rest of their lives. Do you think you could do that without bursting at some stage?

Never say a word you don't mean; that's extremely important, even in the heat of the moment.

I've learnt an awful lot about love from my parents. I've learnt an awful lot from my sister and her late husband, who was an abusive alcoholic and committed suicide after succumbing to acute paranoia and a whole host of mental illnesses in 2001.

Yes, I think it's real, but it's not something that's just there and never goes away. If you see it's there after years of knowing someone, and if you want it, you have to hold onto it hard and never give up. My 2c.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Bru on September 15, 2007, 11:25:51 AM
and I couldnt agree more!
Let's hear it for Truel Love ... :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: German Voodoo on September 15, 2007, 11:30:47 AM
Gently spoken, and I'd certainly like to believe it.

I don't much believe in afterlife, but I want to believe. I'll have kids one day, couldn't bear to think of them simply dying as if they never were.

Let's all hope, then.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Hmmm on September 15, 2007, 01:22:25 PM
I don't much believe in afterlife, but I want to believe. I'll have kids one day, couldn't bear to think of them simply dying as if they never were.

That captures the essence of the mental crisis I've been having for some time now. I am 27, almost 28, and just after turning 26 my mother died. I looked into the future and for a while saw no future, or at the very best, an extremely miserable one.

I can't honestly say I believe in an afterlife, but I must believe, otherwise I face the prospect of never seeing my mother again. Not only was she my mother, but my best friend. All the things left unsaid, the wonderful times we had together, the hilarious times (very frequent), etc.

I almost hate life. I have a glimmer of hope for the future and my writing is a massive part of it. I have to think of mum as she was and refuse to grieve anymore.

On the other hand, quantum physics cannot rule out the possibility she is actually, factually, out there, somewhere. That's why I love physics.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Bru on September 15, 2007, 01:54:51 PM
Praetorian, your mother would not want you to grieve.  Hang in there, it does get better. I promise, and in the meantime hold on to the thought that she is out there watching out for you, just as she always did.
It's how I got thru losing my mum.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on September 15, 2007, 03:31:59 PM
I don't believe in predestination, like V said, "I do believe in the chance that two people can be so complimentery to each other that it simply works, and love is the result."


I saw this with my Mum and Dad, two people who would never have met but for the vagaries of WW2.  Both had loved and lost previously, both in tragic circumstances.  One war related, the other just the cruel caprices of fate or whatever.

Like two parts of a jigsaw without either losing their own identity.  They quarrelled sometimes - they could both be pig-stubborn on some issues - but never with any lasting bitterness.  In the day to day running of the family each would take the lead according to their own abilities.  Wonderful role models for me and my little Sis, and people who know us well say it shows.  A right little pair of 'Stealth Northerners' ;-)

TO:  I'm not too sure about predestination either, but sometimes you have to wonder if 'fate' doesn't occasionally just call a result without bothering to roll the dice first.

The way I met my own ex-wife was equally flukey, so many odd 'coincidences' slotting into place until the meeting was inevitable.

Gyppo

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: thatollie on September 15, 2007, 03:41:53 PM
Another of the, "If it weren't for WW2, I'd never have been born group." I'm also in that group.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Mark H on September 15, 2007, 03:46:04 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on September 15, 2007, 04:46:54 PM
There's a lot of us about ;-)

And now I'm off down the road to tease the Barmaids and do some 'people watching'.

Gyppo
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on September 16, 2007, 12:50:48 AM
Wow, lots of very complex thoughts in this thread. They make me love you guys even more because you have risked to share them. My thoughts in reading the replies haven't gelled, but here they are--minus a logical flow:

I think the future is borne out of our hope for today. It can seem bleak at times. We leave footprints upon this Earth, often unaware of the lives we touch and how we touch them. Our ancestors, parents included, live on in us, in our dreams and hopes, in what we leave behind.

Love isn't flawless, but it is better than never loving someone or something.

Life (or the future) isn't hopeless unless we agree that it is, and succumb to that belief. Life is hard sometimes and it is okay to admit it. Sometimes we have to take baby steps. Sometimes we have to hold onto a belief, a friend, or a lover to get through the day, the year, the next 20 minutes. What's important to me is that we do hold on. And, when we are able, we reach out to help each other.

Many of us were raised to see the differences among us as imperfections, but MWC is proof that people from all over the world, with many differences in opinion, creeds, colors/colours, styles, ideals (and such) can find common ground and grow to appreciate something about each other.

We need to plant for the winters that are sure to come, and to plan for the spring that will follow. I've printed what Carrie wrote on page one of this thread. I plan to hang on to her belief in love when I cannot hold onto my own. (Thank you, Carrie.)

We aren't as alone as we think sometimes. We need to find peace with who we are and learn to appreciate in ourselves the things that others see so much more clearly and lovingly, and in turn appreciate each other (near and far).

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Hmmm on September 16, 2007, 03:20:42 AM
Praetorian, your mother would not want you to grieve.  Hang in there, it does get better. I promise, and in the meantime hold on to the thought that she is out there watching out for you, just as she always did.
It's how I got thru losing my mum.


Thanks Bru. It's nice to know there are others out there who are willing to talk about it. It's hard to talk about, I know. Thank you for sharing.

Yes, I can see my mother temporarily furious at me for grieving and then practically belting me around the head! (With a loving smile of course).

-- Praetorian
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on September 16, 2007, 03:36:39 AM
The first year they were gone was the absolute strangest. The odd things they said became clear. Motives were finally understood. Unresolved disagreements, resolved. Regrets, dismissed. It's a process. Best to go through it and be settled with the lingering memories.

Nadine

(A weird thing. The age my mother was when I was born is the same age I was when she died, on my birthday.)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DwWin on September 17, 2007, 03:35:58 AM
For those who have ever found it, or lost it, they know that true love does exist. For those that have never experienced it, I don’t know if that is a blessing or a curse. True love explodes all your senses and turns the world into a warm and wonderful place, alive with colour, starry eyes and silly grins. But to loose it, that’s when you find out that hell does exist on earth. You sink to the depths of despair, you are literally empty inside because you don’t see the point in eating.

After experiencing the pain of loosing true love I think I would argue with the quote “It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.”

With regards to those who have lost a parent or parents, the love a parent has for their children, and a child has for its parents, is arguably the truest form of love you can get. I lost my mother when I was fifty years old, she was ninety one, and I too lost my best friend and a big hole opened up in my life. To grieve is human and I have never stopped missing her but the passage of time dulls the pain.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: RINKA on September 18, 2007, 10:36:20 AM
 :-*voodoo there is nothing wrong with african men, i can tell color is not a receipt that he's a better man at heart. follow your heart where it leads you to, irrespective of color. ha ha 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: RINKA on September 18, 2007, 10:52:50 AM
praetorian :D :D :-* i agree with what you have said. it show that you have a family that shared love. your mother will be very proud of you. I wish you know how many people you have inspired. SENDING U A HUG
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on October 19, 2007, 03:05:07 PM
True love is. I have seen it in my grandmother's eyes when she was dying in my grandfather's lap aftera long disabling illness. I saw it in my grandfather's touch when, at the age of 80 he cared for my ailing grandmother. I felt it in the suppressed sobs of my tough- hard- as-nails- father when I informed him of his father's demise. I have basked in it each time I see my parents together- my father is nearing 70 and my mother is on the wrong side of 60. Even today when they look at each other- there is magic in the air! They still hold hands and laugh together as teenagers would! Their bright faces tell of a deeply felt strength and confidence for whatever life may deal out to them.

I have felt it when my husband can look at me accross a roomful of people and speak with his eyes! It is as if everyone else just fades away and we are alone- together. The look, the touch, the smile, the care- it is all reassuring. True love is atleast as much about being possessed as about possessing! It is atleast as much about being cared for as it is about caring for.

True love does not mean absence of conflict or even an occassional battle- whether of ego or of wits. True love is not even loving despite these conflicts. It is about there being no question about the love even in the bitterest of fights.

True love is. I have found it.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on October 19, 2007, 03:46:34 PM
 ::) A case of meeting as an inevitability .... two "strangers in a strange land" :-[

"There was a Brit and a Swede, and they met in a pub in Denmark ........."
Maybe it sounds like the beginning of a not-very-good joke, but that was 27 YEARS ago, and I still feel some days as if we're on one of our first dates ..... :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Bru on October 19, 2007, 04:50:10 PM
True love exists without doubt.  Only those who have never loved would think otherwise.
Title: Re: is there ture love for real
Post by: DC on October 19, 2007, 06:45:03 PM
Love is just a minor ailment (like mild flu) you eventually get over it.

Think I have to disagree with this one; I've just been fighting off a dose of 'flu'. It's taken four days, but I've never had 'flu' last for eighteen years...

Dave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on October 20, 2007, 09:53:40 AM
I, too have to agree... And flu can be painfully tiring. Love on the other hand is exciting... energising... makes the world go round!!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: RINKA on October 22, 2007, 10:02:25 AM
It's good to know that we believe true love exist.

A friend of mine found out that her boyfriend of seven years has another girlfriend,they've been on for two years and she didin't have a clue. This is what i am not pleased with,he will be coming back tomorrow from Germany.friends thinks she should wait a day or two before letting him know that she knows,I said she should tell him straight, he will be expecting the usual treatment he get's everytime he arrive from a trip so how will she explain the cold shoulder she deserve more,he has to explain i believe he owes her that much.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on October 22, 2007, 07:29:18 PM
hiya! Naturewalker, you have a pic! Cool.

I agree with you about love. It is wonderful.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on October 23, 2007, 08:33:57 PM
I lost my true love when he was 58 years old, and i still think of him every day.  We were married for 37 years.  Not to say that every day is a bed of roses, we had our differences, but we respected each other, that sometimes i think is the secret to a good marriage, that and talking to each other. I see him in my five children and grandchildren.  It wasn't love at first sight.  We went to school together, and the attraction didn't take place until our last year of High School.  I think he dated every girl in the school but i ended up being his true love and he mine. He's been gone 16 years and I haven't found another man that could measure up to him.  Sounds corny, but I do believe in true love.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Alex F on October 24, 2007, 08:53:12 AM
I tend to follow the advice of the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy when it comes to love; Avoid if at all possible!

No, I merely jest, love is a wonderful thing because it can cross boundaries, think of Romeo and Juliet, all the prejudices and hatred between two different people's means nothing at all when two of them fall in love, in that state of mind they see the problems between their different groups for what they really are; a load of old rubbish. If you love someone no matter who they are then their differences aren't going to matter a jot, I certain play on that theme with the romance in my novels.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on October 24, 2007, 11:02:53 AM
Allyrose, I can't [quite!] say "been there, done that ...!"

BUT ..... after 27 years together I have an idea how you feel.
We don't share a birthday, unfortunately, but in the year she reaches 100,I hope to be still batting on 107 not out ......... We fully intend to rent the biggest, most powerful Harley-D available and attempt to leap across Death Valley .... or go out together in a blaze of glory .............  :o ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on October 24, 2007, 11:49:06 AM
hiya! Naturewalker, you have a pic! Cool.

I agree with you about love. It is wonderful.

Nadine

Thanks, Nadine... I had to work out this one really hard! I am not good at these things! Glad you like the pic!! Gladder you agree about the true love bit.

Where have you been??

Good to see you back.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on November 09, 2007, 01:40:07 PM
Opps! I've been veeerrrry ill. I'm all better now. Whew!

I am not great at this tech stuff, but I do it anyway. What the heck. I've only crashed the forum once...my first day as a moderator. I still don't know what all the extra buttons on my mod screen do. (Who cares?)

There are many forms of love, not just marriage. So, I'd say, go for it. Life is short. Love as many people as you can. For example, I have a couple of best friends who totally accept me for who I am, and if that isn't love, then I guess, I'll take it over love because it is very, very nice. My kids love me and man, that's powerful stuff. Love is everywhere, just have to see it.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 09, 2007, 02:15:10 PM
So true! Love is everywherte... it is the feeling of being special for someone... a friend, a child, a student, a man or a woma... it could be anyone who wants to talk and share with you... who can lift your spirit when it is sagging and make you fly when you are already up... And you are often surprised at the human capacity to love so many people simultaneously in so many different ways that it is difficult to count! Love is when a little child with crumpled flowers in his little hand wants to wish you a Happy Mother's Day on just about any day! Love is also when your friend calls you in an ecstatic moment of glory and recognition and feels great at the appreciation you give... love is also when you can be together despite the distance!

Great to have you back Nadine!!! Hope you are doing well now!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on November 09, 2007, 02:23:47 PM
Welcome back Nadine.  Sorry to hear that you were so ill.  You are so right about loving as many people as you can.  I'd be so lost without the love of my children and friends.  What goes around comes around, especially when it comes to love.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 09, 2007, 02:46:17 PM
Do you see that Nadine? So many people are glad to have you back and concerned about your well being...That, too is love.!


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on November 11, 2007, 01:19:39 AM
Ah, how sweet. Yes, MWC is a second family.

I love you, guys!

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: PaulW on November 12, 2007, 10:45:58 AM
First, the original question - How do you tell it's the real thing? For me it's simple, their happiness is more important to you than your own. You can put lots of fluff round it, but that's what it boils down to. And that covers pretty much all the variants of love: mother's love, romantic love, etc. This is easy when you can do what makes you both happy - when you have to make a choice though - that's that's the real test.

Is true love forever? It can be, but isn't always. People change, sometimes dramatically over the course of their lifetime. Even with the best basis, it still needs feeding and looking after.

German - I get what you are saying about African men not being 'your type'. That's fair enough, but don't be surprised if one day you find you've misunderstood what 'your type' is. :)  I used to think that my type was petite, dark-haired, mediterranean type, feminine women. Then I met someone who I fell totally in love with and, miraculously, discovered my 'type' was a bubbly blonde Welsh girl with big boobs and a huge grin. Funny how quickly your type can change really. ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on November 13, 2007, 01:41:47 PM
I agree Paul - love can surprise you, and you do have to work at it.

Been married 26 years.  And I'm still learning about love in all sorts of ways.  Not just partner to partner, but about the wider experience of giving and receiving love.

My 'type'?  Well, what does it matter, as long as I'm his?   ;D

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 13, 2007, 02:00:05 PM
Makes me soooooooo happy to 'see' sooooooo many people root for love! The world is a beautiful place!! One only has to look a little harder when feeling blue. All the other shades are just around the corner!

Great to know all of you- through your writing about things that are close to your heart.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on November 21, 2007, 10:45:40 PM
I love reading this thread, even when I don't write a post.

Paul, glad to see you back. Missed you, but I/we understand.

Carrie, "his type", perfect answer.

Nature, aren't you glad you found MWC? We're glad you're here.

Everyone else, you're waaaaay cool and very special.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Narnian Prince on November 22, 2007, 04:29:43 AM
Likewise back ya, Nadine!  :D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on November 22, 2007, 06:31:08 AM
So much more I could say - but I lose the words.  Do have to say though, MWC has a lot to answer for!   :D

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 22, 2007, 10:30:00 PM
I love MWC! And, Nadine L, You are right- this thread makes you believe again! How are you now? All under control? No antibiotics? Pain killers?
LOL
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on November 27, 2007, 01:35:13 AM
Carrie...


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on November 27, 2007, 01:39:28 AM
Ah yes, Nature...all well. Thanks for asking. Hey, look at you! A hero member already! Ta!  ;D

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 27, 2007, 12:25:09 PM
Hey! I had not even noticed! I was so busy having a great time... I did not see the tag and the stars! This place sure is good! It will have me published yet! Good to know you are better.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Rob Hopcott on November 28, 2007, 02:35:54 PM
Hey Praetorian

Forgive a newbie leaping in with all four feet but losing my mum was a massive experience for me too and I wondered if my thoughts might help 

Especially as the relief I finally found was not deistic and that might appeal to a physicist.

After really grieving for over a year, I was walking on Exmoor, a place she loved, and  It occurred to me, that, in a very scientific way, my mother was living  on through me, her son. My very existence was determined by the genes she had passed on to me. The eyes that I was seeing through were  controlled by the genes that she had given me. The legs that were  carrying me across that moorland were designed and grown from the  biological code she had freely donated. The brain with which I was able  to formulate these thoughts and think of her was equally determined by  the genetic code we shared. In a truly scientific way, I was her.

Of course, I am a man and she was a woman and, naturally, my father had  some hand in the exercise, although not a very lasting one. Also, there  are many experiences that I have had in my life that have conditioned  and made me the person I am. Unquestionably, people are the product of  nurture as well as nature. I examined these rationalizations from every  angle but could not escape from the fact that I was, indeed, an  extension of my mother and that she was genuinely within me and a part  of me. I don't mean as a spirit or anything that cannot be measured or  proved scientifically. I simply mean the genetic code by which I have  been biologically designed but which is so important to my fundamental existence. I was designed by her and the design is unique to our  relationship.

Finally, I had found the key to resolving the pain of her death and missing her and I immediately received immense consolation.

I looked out across Exmoor and said out aloud.

"Hey, look at that great view mum."

It worked for me. I hope it works for you and, if it doesn't, time heals... Honest!

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on November 29, 2007, 06:11:11 AM
Time heals, but it's amazing what scars you carry around too - whether conciously or unconciously. 

I recently had an experience where I 'realized' just how much I was still grieving for my father.  He died 30 years ago.  And blame, and regret and all that stuff.

But love - love, if you can accept it, that makes the difference.  I can't go back and change things with my dad, that child who lost her father can never talk to him as a woman. But I can accept that the love I feel now for my own children is like that he must have felt, even if he never showed it.

I like your thoughts Hop, about how you carry that which your mother donated to you.  My father was a writer.  I know he gave me that gift.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on November 29, 2007, 06:24:30 AM
Hmm... Aren't feelings and guts kind of the same thing? Like a gut feeling? I didn't vote and now isn't the time to spill my guts but I will stop in to this thread often and vote soon.

Do you feel the love? You are wonderful people..truly you are.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Rob Hopcott on November 29, 2007, 11:29:12 AM
Hi Carrie

I think Byron (the poet) described memory as a scorpion's sting that can come at any time from the past when you are most vulnerable.

As writers and creative people, I think we suffer more than pragmatists because we live our lives more emotionally.

But, I believe we creative people have greater highs too.

Like you, I am also a musician, and some of the most wonderful moments in my life have been when the notes from my sax or flute have intertwined with the notes of another folk musician, making the hairs stand up on the back of my head.

Or, after I have finished editing a piece of writing and finally feel I've got it right, the welling up of emotion and excitement as I leap off my chair, punch the air and yell "YES!" (It's a good thing I work alone!)

Strangely, none of my three children seem to have received the creative genes. They have inherited the unimaginative disposition of their mum. Perhaps this is not a bad thing. They may have easier lives.

However, these days I tend to see my life as a river following my genes. It lovingly flows back into prehistory through my ancestors and forward through my descendants. It's sort of nice to feel part of a stream.

That is, as long as global warming doesn't dry the stream up  ... But that is another thread.

All best

Rob

BTW I'll post a comment on your blog specific to your last article
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: guess on November 29, 2007, 11:40:07 AM
I can tell you this thread just got deep. Hopcott I almost cried that was beautifully worded. My problem is I love my mother to much but can't get rid of dad fast enough. hehehe
But LOVE is true I personally found mine. He is 11 years older but I got me a man and not a boy. I didn't have time to mess around with a boy.
We have been married for 15 years, 16 in March where I live that's a record. The key for us is love unconditionally, give a little, take a little but always sway just a little in everything you do. Love alot and then so more......okay that's my two since worth.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Rob Hopcott on November 29, 2007, 12:12:30 PM
Hi Guess

My dad left us when I was seven years old after knocking out my mum. I'll not grieve for him or go to his funeral.

It's only by giving that we receive and my mum, in her own way, gave me and my brother everything she could.

Unconditional love makes the world go around and our lifes streams flow on.

Touching another persons mind is one of the wonders of being human.

I'm truly happy you've found love ...


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on November 29, 2007, 03:24:49 PM
Guess - you hit the nail on the head there with 'unconditional'. If you really have that, it's fantastic.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on November 29, 2007, 03:35:05 PM
To my mind, Love is unconditional. You can't say 'I'll love you, but only if...'. Well, I never could at any rate.

Dave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on November 29, 2007, 03:40:47 PM
I Love all my children and grandchildren but sometimes I have to say to them "I love you, but today I really don't like you."  The Love will always be there and that is unconditional love.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on December 03, 2007, 07:30:23 AM
Is there true Love for real?

I commented earlier about a Love of mine that has lasted since 1989. OK, I'm currently Chardonnay sodden, and feeling very sentimental. But I made the comment recently on another thread of mine that 'There is too much interference from my past for me to be able to 'tune in' to someone new'. Maybe these (slightly adapted by me)words to a well known song might explain this 'interference', and my feelings on this subject:

Love, to thee my thoughts are turning
All through the night
All for thee my heart is yearning,
All through the night.
Though sad fate our lives have severed,
Parting will not last forever,
There's a hope that leaves me never,
All through the night.

Right, sorry for being a sentimental old git;and just to spoil the mood, I'm off to bed.  I've got to be up for work tonight.

Dave.

P.S. Could this be a contender for the No.1 way to kill a thread?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on December 03, 2007, 07:37:47 AM
Oh S**t, I'm going to feel such a T**t after posting that last one... but I'll stand by it to my death..,

Dave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: guess on December 03, 2007, 08:32:05 AM
DC- You didn't kill the thread, just made it interesting.
You can't live in the past because the word past is as it says (PAST)
A lot of people have had experiences with relationships I'll even give you an example this guy I know he's been married 8x's and you'd think after the 3rd or 4th he'd give up but not ole Grady WH**E to the bone.  8) But he still gets up every morning to a woman by his side. Gosh that sounds scary after I put it on the computer screen.
Try not to let your past get in the way of that one true love that will make your spine tingle your heart beat an extra beat or makes you smile for no reason at all.
Love is well worth another try.
Hey look at it this way, all the rest of the people in your other relationships were trial errors but the next one might be the ONE ;)
Sharon
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Rob Hopcott on December 03, 2007, 10:48:20 AM
That's a fine piece of writing!

Do you find writing down your feelings helps to heal the wound?

If so, perhaps there is a short story or even a novel just waiting to come out.

Perhaps, if it wasn't for the ups and downs of love, loving and lovers, there would be a lot less literature.



 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Christopher Silva on December 03, 2007, 11:50:35 AM
Agreed. Love and love lost spurs the writer.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on December 04, 2007, 02:36:13 AM
When you feel it rip out your guts you know it's real. By then it's too late. :(
So yes and  yes.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: guess on December 04, 2007, 09:45:26 AM
Hopcott, writing is one way since I am a writer it only makes since to write it down if you don't care for people reading it. I personally am not ashamed of anything I write. Well, I guess I am if it has editing errors.
Funwriter is right.
DGSquared is right too.
If you have any of these symptoms or had any them you have a story as Hopcott said.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on December 13, 2007, 07:32:31 PM
I've just spooled back to the beginning of this thread and cried my way through it.

What else should I do [after 27 years] when she comes home after visiting the children from her FIRST marriage (and I helped her raise both of them from very young) ....  and says it's over ......???
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 13, 2007, 08:52:13 PM
I've just read through this thread from beginning again. It catches my breath. It nods my head in agreement. It tugs at my heart.

I keep promising myself that I must write down some of these thoughts, so that I have them handy on the days I need to be reminded, or I want to express the thoughts and the words do not come.

My heart goes out to you, Bagheera. I don't know the words to say that you long to hear. The sting of loss is probably too sharp to find the memories of the times together this thread heralds. You have loved and been loved. That matters too.

Spend time with us, MWC, to fill the hours when you don't want to be alone.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Frogg on December 13, 2007, 09:34:41 PM
I so want to believe in true love, but I don't think I can.
My great grandfather left his family and committed suicide.
His son, my grandfather, was send away to Australia when he was six, his mother never sent for him, not even when the war was over.
When he grew up he became an alcoholic and abused my grandmother and my mother.
When he died, he had not spoken to mum for 7 years.
My mother married young and had 1 child, her husband became an alcoholic and left her for the drink.
She then met my father who trated her like a princess until the day after the wedding....
He abused us all throughout my childhood.
He then became critically ill, the doctors predict he only has a year or less left.
My boyfriend left me for my best friend.

So, maybe I'm a little off the idea of true love, and that was only one half of the family!
Still, the writing helps, and hey, I've got you guys!

Love to all,
Broken
xxx
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: pamela07 on December 13, 2007, 11:17:45 PM
Yes there is true love.  You have to dig deep within.  You have to love yourself first.  You can't love someone else without loving yourself first.  Love yourself.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: pamela07 on December 13, 2007, 11:19:49 PM
I also feel that once you find love in yourself first you will fill love for the one, you will feel it deep within your guts.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 14, 2007, 12:22:35 AM
Bagheera... I went back to the beginning of the thread and read back again, too!  :(
I cannot ask you to take heart but...
There was a bleak period in my otherwise 'happily everafter' life that I felt I had lost it... Nothing I did was ever right. Not only me, if the children did anything wrong, that , too was me! I could and often did, cry lonely tears all night- wondering what I had done and how I could win him back. I loved him so deeply ( And still do) that it never occured to be that it could be him and not me that was the problem! We have been together for 15 years now- and if you count our courtship- it builds up to 22...
He is not the kind of man who will go out of his way to show his love... but in a moment of crisis he is unwaveringly by my side. What do I have to complain about?!  ??? But you cannot live your life crisis to crisis! Love has to be felt in everyday moments. It has to be given... and recieved... in everyday moments... Before you think otherwise... I am still with the same man I fell in love with 22 years ago- but you know? He is not the same person!
Then- I had to ask him to explain clearly what was bothering him and what he expected from me! And guess what?! It had been something elase altogether all this while! All the stresses that we face are released on the ones we love! And the more we love- the harsher we get with the ones we love- easy way to normalise again...
Do you think that was just a moment of decompensation? Do you think you can work it out together? Sometimes we are speaking differen love languages and fail to see each other's love... Try... And stay here with the rest of us...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on December 14, 2007, 04:47:21 AM
Naturewalker, et al.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but for me there can only be ONE definition of the word "forever".

My love for her (AND the daughter a posse of medical experts told us we could NEVER have!) will never change, but she's determined to go through with this and won't even discuss it.

If she knocks on my door unannounced in twenty years from now I'll have no questions, no recriminations, and no hesitation in embracing her and saying, "Welcome Home."

Until that day, all I can do is hope - and take what comfort I can find, where I can find it.
Thanks, guys 'n' gals ...........  :-[
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 14, 2007, 05:28:05 AM
I, too belong to the 'old fashioned' brigade that accepts only one definition of forever... I do hope this is just a passing phase in your forever- that you are together 100- 107 not out! Meanwhile hang in there!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 14, 2007, 07:09:21 AM
Brokenwings,

I wish the best for you. You really don't have to repeat the cycle your family has been in. You certainly know which personality type to avoid. But, love can be a very nice thing, albeit complicated.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Frogg on December 14, 2007, 07:15:59 AM
Thanks Nadine,

I tend to avoid people, they terrify me! :-\
I hope I can get over this and meet some folks, then maybe falling in love won't be as hard as it is when I stay at home with my puter...
MWC was my first tentative step into the outside world, and it's going great,
Love and Hugs...

E.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on December 14, 2007, 07:43:21 PM
There is something special about MWC. It's there if you look for it, it's not there if you don't or don't want it.

Love is here.  Friendship is here.

It's changed my life.  Yeah - really.

This may seem like a small step, but to the ant an inch is a mile.  This was my mile.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: PaulW on December 14, 2007, 07:47:42 PM
Yep I agree about MWC - it helped me through the worst time in my life; gave me a connection to people, even when the world seemed to have collapsed round me. I love wifey more though 'cos she makes me bacon sarnies too. :)

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on December 15, 2007, 10:57:51 AM
So, perhaps MWC bar should start serving bacon sarnies too... mmmm.....

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on December 15, 2007, 11:11:17 AM
"Greater love hath no man than he share his last bacon sarnie with another."
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nelodra on December 15, 2007, 03:33:22 PM
Of course there's true love, and is has nothing to do with "being madly in love" or other BS like that.

I didn't find love, love found me.
I wasn't looking for love, didn't want any of it, and there was this guy.
He wore the wrong clothes, wrong glasses, and to top it off he was an IT-guy.
Not my type at all.

But he found me,a nd he wouldn't give up.
We've been married happily for over 16 years now, and I love him because he loved me first.

Gah, I even allowed him to turn me into a geek!  ;D 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 15, 2007, 03:59:48 PM
Good for you Nelodra! Usually men marry with the hope their women will never change and women marry with the idea their men will change for the better... both are disappointed!! Good for you to have been turned into a geek- it is helpful in the writing business!!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on December 16, 2007, 02:16:02 AM
Love is just a minor ailment (like mild flu) you eventually get over it.
Let me know when they come out with that vaccine. If they did, would you use it? Wonder if many people would...

I can see it now, every Spring.

*Come get your love vaccine unless you want to make yourself susceptible to the love bug.*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on December 16, 2007, 03:22:25 AM
Quote
et me know when they come out with that vaccine. If they did, would you use it?

No, in spite of all my whinging, I don't think I would. After eighteen years, I don't think I'll ever get 'there' again. But, I can live in hope.  ;D

Dave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 16, 2007, 09:07:45 AM
I thought football season was a vaccine.

(Oh, sorry...really, I am.)

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on December 16, 2007, 12:47:59 PM
I thought football season was a vaccine.

(Oh, sorry...really, I am.)

Nadine
Hee hee...Don't apologize, that's a good one.

I happen to like football as long as it isn't football overdose.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 16, 2007, 02:11:09 PM
Mmmm, the 08 Super Bowl is in our town! Whoo-hoo. Just like a winter storm brewing, stock up on essentials and don't let the kids drive until the roads clear.

Okay, sorry, back to love...

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on December 16, 2007, 02:49:03 PM
Speaking of love...I love Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and they are playing the half time show.

I love the Heartbreakers? Does that qualify as an oxymoron?




Back to true love...It's very real and rich and satisfying and terrifying and heartbreaking all rolled into one. Then there is the love for your children which is like no other. It's completely different from romantic love, but very real.

I've heard many people say (men and women) that they didn't really know what it meant to truly love or what real love was until they had children.

~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 16, 2007, 06:00:22 PM
It's so heartwarming and emotional
to read all posts in this Topic.....
I felt tears rolling down for no apparent reason.....
and I'm so glad to find all of you with warm hearts!!
It's  amazing how we feel connected through this one subject
as it talks to HEART rather than thinking with Brain.

I saw unconditional love when looking into my dad's eyes...He never judged me for my shortcomings or silly errors....
  I felt lost in my world when he died 15 yrs back.   :'(
  Non-judgemental acceptance and Forgiveness has lot more to do with
this kind of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, I suppose..

We all have so many encounters with others that feels LOVED or sometimes NOT,
or Special Love turn to Hate or Love that exist no matter what the other does.

I think Forgiving the errors or overlooking the mistakes while continuing
to hold the Love in heart is the game here!! [We all do mistakes..one way or the other..]

Forgiving the other is ultimately forgiving the self..it's Freedom from that
burning Thoughts of hate or attack or sadness..
Forgiving and Loving go hand in hand far more than we acknowledged...I presume!!  :)

I LOVE you all from the heart!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 16, 2007, 11:02:47 PM
Sune,

I love this. Several people have mentioned unconditional love. Of all the kinds of love, this is my favorite one.

Non-judgemental acceptance and Forgiveness has lot more to do with this kind of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, I suppose..

I LOVE you all from the heart!!

I think it is fantastic that Unconditional Love can be coupled with so many other types of love. What strikes me as a key feature of unconditional love is that it is focused on the person you love. Nothing they do or don't do really has an impact on the love. None of the usual superficial things that sometimes matter apply in unconditional love. My mind is exploding with images and examples as I try to write something coherent, but I guess, you know what I mean.

I have to say, I've added a new kind of love in my life. No real name for it; I'll call it MWC love. It amazes me how fond I am of so many people I've never met. Our differences add richness to whatever this relationship is. Our similarities smooth gaps in understanding. It's lovely. I do love you guys!

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on December 16, 2007, 11:41:43 PM
I wanna blush ....  :-[

T
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 17, 2007, 05:39:09 AM
Go ahead... blush... why? Love keeps us together in a happy sunny way... Hate may bind in a consuming manner that eventually takes its toll in terms of energy and even life... love always enhances it. Anyone who has been in love can feel a smile warming their face at some memory or even eyes becoming moist at another.
Any relationship, in order to survive, has to be based on love and sharing... of accepting and forgiving...
Hatred only brings up differences and drains energy...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 17, 2007, 06:04:01 PM
Hello to all!!

THANK YOU, Nadine, Thanks for your comments!!

Sure, I do know what you mean...
That feeling of Unconditional Love does not limit itself for any superficial material gains or
just sensual pleasures or any kind of demands and expectations or anything..
It does not judge the other for what has been done or not done..
It does overlook the errors as it is Beyond all errors of little human mind..Ego mind..

It does connect us with that "infinite source of Love" beyond all variations of mortal Bodies and Personalities....
whether humans or animals or any.  [Lins' orangutang Diary... :-* :-* :-*]

It brings warm tears or joyful smile from heart  and expect Nothing in Return!! :) :) :) :)
It is Loving for the sake of Loving...for that Inner joy beyond words!!

Good thing is without waiting for Receiving it from others
 we can start Giving it and that creates the momentum of Overflowing!!
I think that's what you feel Nadine!!

Thank you, NatureWalker,you exactly know what it feels like!!  :)
Hey, I love Nature walking too..It feels Connected..connected to the Living world..
Life force that connects Everything to everything!!
I am so glad to have you all with a loving heart!!

There's a Book called "Zero Limits" done by Dr. Joe Vitale and Hawaiian Sharman- Dr.Hew Len
that goes with the True story of "Healing the whole hospital of mentally ill criminals in Hawaii without even seeing them personally."....
It's about asking Forgiveness and offering Love for the Collective Unconscious Mind Error of seeing the insane world and dramas..

You can read it here..   http://www.zerolimits.info/

 :) Big T, You will see it..you will feel it..when it's your time to experience it!!   :) :) :)

I Love you all from Heart!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nick.P on December 17, 2007, 06:57:53 PM
Hmmmmmmmm...I fell in love when I was nine. The women was thirty five. Someone moved the hands on the clock. I missed her by just a few short tick tocks.Hmm? What was her name???
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 17, 2007, 07:10:09 PM
Hi, Nick,
May be you attracted to her..as a Moth to the flame??   ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 18, 2007, 03:13:51 AM
Sune!
I saw the website... I have to say i am impressed. I am considering buying the book and reading it- though the name of the technique sounds a lot of ... a... a...well.. unsual...It sounds as if someone is having fun at the reader's expense. But the concept is mindblowing! Is the book readable? Have you read it? How did you come upon it?
Thanks... about your remarks. I realise NOW ( I was not always this cool headed) that there are times when you feel like responding with extreme anger to frustrations in life- if you only manage to lengthen the time between stimulus and response- you realise how ludicrous the whole situation was!
true love, hence is also in maturity...
BTW... I like your signature line... going by the book you mention, everyone's peace of mind begins with each of us!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on December 18, 2007, 03:27:24 AM
Go ahead... blush... why? Love keeps us together in a happy sunny way... Hate may bind in a consuming manner that eventually takes its toll in terms of energy and even life... love always enhances it. Anyone who has been in love can feel a smile warming their face at some memory or even eyes becoming moist at another.
Any relationship, in order to survive, has to be based on love and sharing... of accepting and forgiving...
Hatred only brings up differences and drains energy...


 :) Big T, You will see it..you will feel it..when it's your time to experience it!!   :) :) :)

I Love you all from Heart!!


Methinks I have been misunderstood ...Nadine's comment was "I do love you guys". I took it as a compliment and 'blushed'.

For those of you interested ... true love has been with me for a while ... My first wife (at first), my son (always), grandkids (well, when I see them on high days and holidays), my second wife (right now!) and finally my stepdaughter ...  :P

As for you lot ... yeah, well okay, maybe, just a little bit ...  ;D  With one exception of course ... mad ducks don't qualify for my 'love' (Sorry PaulW)!   8)

T
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 18, 2007, 03:31:19 AM
Big T... that's a really BIG T in life!! I once wrote a long poem about a grey haired fine old man who would explain meaning of life to his children and their children... you fit the bill!
So- go ahead and blush! It is good to have so much love around us!!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on December 18, 2007, 03:35:30 AM
Big T... that's a really BIG T in life!! I once wrote a long poem about a grey haired fine old man who would explain meaning of life to his children and their children... you fit the bill!
So- go ahead and blush! It is good to have so much love around us!!!

I am the lucky one ... they have to put up with this grey haired old man  ::)

T
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 18, 2007, 09:07:41 PM
Hi, Naturewalker,

Thanks for the comments.. :) :) :)
I'm glad that you're ready to read the book.
Yep, it's a fun read..you'll love it..
The Hawaiian Shaman Dr. Hew Len and the skeptic, Dr.Joe Vitale....
exploring the ancient Hawaiian method of "Forgiving and Releasing  Traumas and conflicts of Life "
is a mind blowing concept as you said..but not really when you learn and go along using it in everyday life.
Of course I read that..few times and suggested it to the Library here.

How did I come upon with that?  ::)

Oh, it's a long story.
If I say it in short,..Intense emotional traumas I experienced in life urged me to find a "WAY OUT"
as I choosed to Live when faced with Death through the emotional roller-coaster.

It has been a long journey..along the way I've found so many Teachers..People that already learned
the other way around to find PEACE within themselves..so many Websites, so many Books..too many to mention here..
Good News is finally I've found Peace within myself!!

If you like to read more go here too..

http://www.takemetotruth.com/a-mind-made-self.html

http://www.takemetotruth.com     ["Take me to truth- undoing Ego" - Book]

www.garyrenard.com   --[Two books..extraordinary!!]

www.emofree.com    --Emotinal Freedom Techniques/ Modern version of Acupunture by tapping!

Hope you'll enjoy the ride!!  :) :)

Hi Big T.. :)
Hey you're a Big T by all means..
Think you're enjoying the ride with all of them..
Good for you..you're so young at heart!!
Go ahead..blush or anything..
You made me laugh a lot..Thank you very much!!  ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 19, 2007, 12:10:01 AM
Thanks Sune...
I am deeply into studying the nuances and getting to know my own belief system- Hinduism... I am currently reading about Islam, Christianity, too just to get the feel of what any faith/ religion may have to say about life. I have not gone very deep as yet... and know very little as of now. I, however, feel anything that says My god- or no god- is not good enough for me! This is why I find Hinduism and its offshoots so impressive. Hinduism clearly mentions that you may choose to call it whatever name you have accepted for the entity called God- the identity of this entity stays the same. Infact, Hinduism requires that one follows whatever one's faith faithfully, sincerely and truthfully.
I shall try to read more about your recommendations before I make my decisions to read these.
Meanwhile- enjoy the Holiday spirit... have a great time...

BTW... Have you read "The Celestine Prophecy"? Another of the gems I would recommend if you enjoy this kind of lit.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 19, 2007, 05:19:54 PM
Just Hypothesizing here;

So, from the previous bit of conversation would it be fair to say: Love, real love, compels us to reach out lovingly to others; while the lack of love, (hate? anger?) compels us to strike out at others?

If that is true, then what is within is what is expressed?

If that is true, then all we need is love? (Yes, it is a nice song.)


I've always maintained that all anyone wants is to love and to be loved.

As of late, I've added to that premise; that real love requires an act, that it needs expressed. That real love requires more than loving and being loved, the human conditions needs to express their love and have their love expressly accepted by the person they love, as well as feel the expression of love toward them and accept it.

Ah, the next question in my quest is then; is it real love if it is not expressed, if it does not take form? Basically, if you love someone and have never expressed that love, is it love? If love is expressed and never expressly accepted, is it love?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 20, 2007, 12:02:51 AM
Hi, Naturewalker, :) :)

Thanks!!
Good for you...You are on your way understanding yourself..Everyone is on their way though it seems not moving along the same way!!

Ultimately it is the journey without the distance..journey to the Deeper SELF / Impersonal Self / True Self..within all.
It says the greatest enigma to Human ..is Himself...and sure it is!!
All  Teachers, Books , Ideas are like POINTERS pointing the way, like Road signs to the final destination. There are more than one way to come to the same destination..
So it's not about judging one way or the other, but choosing the way that resonate with your heart and following  the intuition/ the gentle voice within you to guide through.

I have not read the Clestine Prophecy..but I checked today and found the Movie released in 2006.

www.thecelestineprophecymovie.com

I watched the movie trailers..really interesting..have a look there!! 

I like to recommend Gary Renards two books..  www.garyrenard.com
"The Disappearance of the Universe" and "Your immortal reality." Here, the teachings and ideas all coming from Jesus Christ..

And there's book done by Jesus through a human,.." A Course In Miracles"--ACIM, introducing a course for Thought reversal to right-mindedness.
You can even read the book-3 parts online. [Text, Workbook, Manual]

www.acim.org
http://acim.home.att.net/acim_tx-1972.html               - Text book/ACIM
http://acim.home.att.net/workbook_contents.html       -Work book/ACIM

Hey, by the way I'm a Buddhist..so what..? It's all about finding the Inner Peace through this Human Drama by choosing right-mindedness and forgiveness.
First understanding "What went wrong?" and then undoing that original error.. Jesus's Teachings in those gives a clear-cut explanation to all insanity and human worldly drama.

"Take me to truth-undoing ego", is the next book..it's based on ACIM too.

Hope you enjoy this ride..fasten your seat belt..expect brutal honesty with yourself..Have Fun along the way!!

Good Luck!!

Best Wishes for  all of you MWC,  Happy Safe Christmas Season!!!        :) :) :)


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 20, 2007, 12:43:57 AM

I've always maintained that all anyone wants is to love and to be loved.

As of late, I've added to that premise; that real love requires an act, that it needs expressed. That real love requires more than loving and being loved, the human conditions needs to express their love and have their love expressly accepted by the person they love, as well as feel the expression of love toward them and accept it.

Ah, the next question in my quest is then; is it real love if it is not expressed, if it does not take form? Basically, if you love someone and have never expressed that love, is it love? If love is expressed and never expressly accepted, is it love?

Nadine

Real love does not require to express or to be accepted... in the conventional sort of way... Real love is the feeling that makes us do caring things that promote peace and content, for us and/ or for the ones we love.
If it is kept inside the heart and causes pain or gain ( of contentment/ glow) it still is love. True love. If it is expressed and reciprocated it is 'happy ending' kind of true love... if not, it still is true love!

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 20, 2007, 01:17:53 AM

Hi, Nadine,

I just thought to send my comments with your letter.

So, from the previous bit of conversation would it be fair to say: Love, real love, compels us to reach out lovingly to others;   Yes, naturally drive you to reach out..
while the lack of love, (hate? anger?) compels us to strike out at others?  Yep, automatically ...even without thinking mostly.  Unconscious default program at work...

If that is true, then what is within is what is expressed?  Yes, you got it..

If that is true, then all we need is love? (Yes, it is a nice song.)    You are LOVE..You are IT..That's your Natural State of Being. Everyone wants to Love and to be Loved ..because we thought we've SEPERATED from that Infinite Love..Original Error..

www.youarelovemovie.com

I've always maintained that all anyone wants is to love and to be loved.   Exactly,,any situation is coming out of Love or a call for Love..

As of late, I've added to that premise; that real love requires an act, that it needs expressed. That real love requires more than loving and being loved, the human conditions needs to express their love and have their love expressly accepted by the person they love, as well as feel the expression of love toward them and accept it.

You can express it anyway you feel appropriate in this human condition..though it's mainly a act at the level of MIND.
How about if the other is not complying lately as you expected??  Can it still be there as it was before?


Ah, the next question in my quest is then; is it real love if it is not expressed, if it does not take form? Basically, if you love someone and have never expressed that love, is it love? If love is expressed and never expressly accepted, is it love?

 It originates in Mind..so it's always about the mind..whether it expressed or not, whether it's accepted or not in superficial level of human form it's  always be there ....We are deeply connected through deeper mind..All oceans with different names around the planet earth are all connected in deeper level of water to a One ocean.
Distant healing methods, Meditation or Intentional meditation to reduce crime rates..are few practical evidences. there's much more in everyday life..

Have you watched "What the bleep do we know" Movie???
www.whatthebleep.com/


Looking at our culture’s obsession with the two most popular forms of love might shed some light on the subject.

1: Physical or sexual love
2: Emotional love.

Both are temporary and subject to change, due to the unconscious desire to get our needs met through another.

3.Conscious love’ is real love/unconditional love
which due to its inclusiveness, is consistent and ever expanding. It eclipses our cultures usual experience of physical or emotional love and can be integrated into sexual and emotional relationships if we are committed to re-learning what love really is.

We search for love everywhere, through our children, our parents, friends and lovers, yet most of us feel as if we’re missing out; that the depth and consistency of the love we truly desire just doesn’t seem to eventuate. What we don’t know about real love, is that we can’t ‘get it’, ‘earn it’, ‘keep it’, ‘seek it’ or ‘lose it’. The only way to know conscious love is to give it. Love can’t increase in us and our lives unless we’re consistently extending it and we can’t consistently extend love until we discover the reason for our inability to love in the first place.

We’re so brainwashed into believing that love is something that we ‘get’ and that loving me means “You’ll do what I want”, that we expect that love equates to someone meeting our physical or emotional needs. That’s how we measure love - by how much or how little our needs are met by a certain individual. Love, in our culture has been romantically portrayed as being either sexual, emotional or both, but never as an act of conscious discipline. The closest we come to real and unconditional love (in our ego’s understanding) is expressed in charity however this is not real love either, as it presupposes that one is more needy that the other! If we have ever loved someone and suffered from that love appearing to disintegrate or turn to hate, then we have experienced the ego version of love. The ego’s unconscious catch-cries are: “seek love but never find” and “give to get.” Unless we wake up and consciously take charge, ALL our relationships will play out in the same way!

Read more here pl....

http://www.takemetotruth.com/the-secret-of-real-love.html

Hope you enjoy the ride..
Best Wishes for a Happy Safe X'mas season!!   :) :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on December 20, 2007, 01:42:42 AM
Hi Big T.. :)
Hey you're a Big T by all means..
Think you're enjoying the ride with all of them..
Good for you..you're so young at heart!!
Go ahead..blush or anything..
You made me laugh a lot..Thank you very much!!  ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Sune
Thanks Sune,

My twopenneth ...

One never knows when it will end (love/life). I make a point of making sure that my wife knows I love her, every day, not limited to sex or words, but by actions, sensory messages, acceptance of her and what she does or feels, the way I act and respond - not only to her - it includes our environment (home/family/friends), discussions about who we are and where we are going.

A myriad of things make up true love so I try to utilise everything possible to demonstrate it - unconsciously - it is not a question of asking myself "how can this (whatever it is) express my feelings/love" ... it's more of an awareness of my partner and who/what she is to me, to herself and what we are together.

Bah humbug ... enough - I'm losing Big T's macho image here!!   ;)

T

I find it difficult to express in words ( so much for trying to be a writer  :D)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 20, 2007, 01:19:48 PM
Big T... that is the nicest thing I have heard from and about a 'real-life' person. Most people are afraid to show their love for the fear of not being accepted or reciprocated enough. What they miss by doing so is the chance to live their love. True love- romantic or parental or child or any other category one might want to define - does not change because its response was not what the lover expected! The more we love, the more we find joy around us. It comes in the little everyday things... a smiling child who goes off to sleep holding your hand telling you just how much he loves your touch! The pride and the agony , the hurt and the pain... are all part of the same feeling.

A single flower says a lot more than a whole bunch of them... a small thoughtful gesture says a lot...


Sune...
Celestine prophecy discusses that we are all in some form of relationship with each other where we often try to ' rob' each other's energy... not realising that we can infact continue to enhance our and each other's energy by staying connected to the never ending source in nature- without robbing each other. Thus, true love means actually enhancing each other's energy levels. Finding our own completion, for the want of a better word, in this universe of incomplete existences. True love tends to giove us a sense of fulfillment and completion.

As for what the bleep do we know- I tried getting it from our local movie store- and guess what? He had not even heard of it! This was a year or so ago!!! Time flies... I had forgotten I so much wanted to see this movie... I have forgotten in what context I had diascovered it... I only remember the disappointment I felt. I then realised that I would probably have it land in my lap once I was ready for it! 

As for the conscious and unconscious love- I feel that we sometimes are trapped in our cultural limits ( I am not saying limitations... I mean rather boundaries... ) And to reach beyond them seems not to occur in our thinking and living experiences. This is where our definition of love tends to get restricted rather than getting expanded. As we grow and mature we begin to live the true love - having gone through the basics earlier... This self realisation and acceptance are quite high on Maslow's heirarchy of human needs and figure only once the basic needs are met. The maturity is in reaching this state sooner than later and then growing beyond it!

Accepted or unaccepted, expressed or unexpressed- true love IS...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on December 20, 2007, 04:14:49 PM
i have found and read a lot of very interesting posts in this forum but none so striking and full of controversy and opinoin as this one. this particular thread hit a very strong chord in my heart and mind.
please indulge me while i regale you all with this story:
in 1986, my wife and i met. she was all of 12 years old and i was 14. there was no way we could have known then how we would feel about each other in the future, after all, we were but only kids ourselves.
we would date off and on through jr high school and once high school came about, we seperated for whatever reason was there. at that age there was no sense of permanence to our relationship, we were still growing, and finding out more about ourselves and each other as well as figuring out what we expected and wanted from the other people in our lives, past, present, and future.
after some time, we would find each other again, the circumstanecs escape me at this time, but inevitably there were again reasons for us to seperate. a span of about 5 years would pass, both of us involved in our own lives as well as the relationships we were in. somewhere in that 5 years we were apart, quite out of the blue, she once again walked into my life. the relationship i was in was on the rocks and i was seeking a means out of it. here was the one girl from my past that had never left my heart nor my thoughts. i had long forgotten any thoughts of us rekindling our past into our present, though i thought of her often, wondering how she was, was she happy, and where she was in her life. here was an opportunity for us to both catch up with each other and get some answers to those thoughts. we had never had sex  so there was that possibility as well . (at 19 yrs of age i don't need to tell any of you what was also going through my mind in that regard, but trust me when i say it was the least of my thoughts, though it was there.)
Inevitably, her and her boyfriend at the time were going through some very troubled times. She came to me seeking answers and solutions, or perhaps just the kinship of a kindred heart and mind, someone she felt that she needed to reconnect with to at least satisfy a few curiosities. that night, we would have sex for the first time, but during that act, she posed the most troubling question to me in my life...she bade me to tell her that i loved her. had i thought about it longer than the few split seconds i had, i might have told her what she longed to hear, if only to continue in our lovemaking....but alas i said the first true thing that came to mind. i looked her straight in the eyes and told her that i could not tell her something i did not know for sure in my heart.
as disappointing as this may have been for her to hear, it was the truth. in those split seconds i had gone through every feeling and every memory i had that involved her. i have never been known for promiscuity, i have no idea why really. i am a man and tend to have thoughts of a sexual nature, and of course in my teenage years they were much more frequent, but i suppose my upbringing made me more caring and understandable in those regards. she could easily have said "ok that's enough " and called an end to it all and we could have just shared each others company. but alas we both found answers to that one question of what it would be like to share that experience together.. this unfortunately would not be a long lasting meeting....as i said earlier we were both in seperate relationships with other people. being the only time i had an affair, i was lost in my own confusion. she however figured that my answer was sufficient and within the next 48 hours, walked out of my life again. with this now on my conscience i had more concerns growing..we had unprotected sex, she could wind up pregnant, or whatever else my mind could conjure....and sure enough she did indeed become pregnant. the flipside to that is that it would turn out that the pregnancy was from her other boyfriend, and i would later hear she was pregnant...with no real knowledge of who the father was it was quite the burden on my mind...i don't know if it was the worry of what to do morally, or if it was the concern of whether or not the child was mine, but either way it would go, i had decided the best thing i could do was be there and support her whatever her decision may be. ultimately, she stayed with her boyfriend much to my own dismay and assurances that i would care for her and the child, regardless who the real father would be.
a few years later, the girlfriend i was with during all that, and i, had decided it best to split  and go our seperate ways. ironically, i had been out with some friends at a bar where i happened to meet my future sister in law. with no askances of her sister, she and i found ourselves drawn to each other, though strictly in a non-intimate fashion. she had an attraction to me, but i did not share that attraction. i had a personal rule of not dating siblings of my ex-girlfriends, so this could never have gone anywhere. she had on a few occassions attemtped to inform me of her sisters situation and such but i had blocked it all out and ignored all such attempts. after having bared my sould to her after the pregnancy and sworn that i would care for and support her and her child, it was too painful for me to dive back into the wonders of her and her life. i felt content to just be friends with her younger sister and remain ignorant to the rest.
i would eventually agree to escort  the younger sister to their aunt and uncles 25th wedding anniversary. it was agreed that we would go there strictly as friends and that no expectations could be set on that premise. i arrived promptly to pick up the younger sibling, and was told when she answered the door that it would be a little bit before she was finished readying herself. no sooner i walked in the door, there was the older sister, in a robe, a towel wrapped around her hair, still readying herself for the evening to come. we exchanged greetings and she headed off back upstairs to change. some many minutes later, she returned, wearing this gorgeous blue dress. my jaw instantly struck the floor, i had never seen her look quite so stunning in the entire time we had known each other.
sticking to my plan i did escort her younger sister to the party, but i just couldn't take my eyes off her older sister..this was not fair to her, so pardoning myself from her company, i went off to grab a few drinks from the bar. when returning to the table with our drinks, i happened upon the girls' mother who in turn had a few things to say to me regarding an apology that was years past due in her mind...she wanted to thank me for talking with her many years previous in regards to some issues with her eldest daughter. i accepted her thanks and even had a dance with her on the floor, and lo and behold, she confided to me that her daughter and i made a stunning couple and inquired to my intentions with her youngest daughter. i mentioned to her that the youngest was strictly a friend and that i was here to pose as a date/escort but that my plans did not involve any further actions regardling love and relationships of the heart. she admired my honesty, and thanked me for not hurting both daughters by breaking eithers hearts in a cruel fashion....by not dating the younger, and trying so hard to ignore the oldest even though it was plain to see that my feelings for the latter were still very much alive.
i would later that night, upon following the eldest daughter and in the company of the youngest daughter, take them both home, where the eldest and i (after a talk during dancing earlier in the evening) would try to reconnect and reacquaint ourselves to the happenings in our lives.
this was in no means a plan that was conspired or designed to worm my way back into the eldest daughters heart. i had not until the moment i saw her even acknowledged that i still had feelings for her. nor did i have knowledge that her boyfriend and her had split up. we had stayed up late, and i had had much to drink and was rather tired. she bade me (against her fathers wishes) to spend the night. as i settled in to lay down to sleep, i met her three year old daughter. here before me was the child that had been the focal point of our last conversation before this night. it appeared that her and her boyfriend had split and her daughter and herself had moved back in with the eldest daughters father. there was no denying that the child was indeed not mine. we looked nothing alike. upon waking to a disgruntled father the following morning, i took a few moments in my waking to play with the toddler and had a grand time doing so. the childs mother and i talked for a few hours before i parted to leave for home and ready myself for my work shift that night. i could not get her or her mother out of my mind. i was all thumbs that night, and as a bartender that was not a state of being that was beneficial to my career. amazingly, the eldest daughter called me at work that night and wanted to make some time to further continue our discussions.
to make an already long story shorter, we talked, and over the next few weeks we talked a lot. it was as if we had gotten a fresh start and a new beginning to our relationship. this would be january of 95. by october of 96 we were married. there is much more to this, but i fear i have already dragged this much longer than i had intended. but in answer to true love...i have this to say....
with everything i have already written....i know true love exists...it is something that takes many things.... sacrifice, and commitment.....honesty, to your partner and yourself. these are just the merest of examples.
communication is the key to many things, true love is no exception. another reason i know true love exists.....if ever any of you have looked in the eyes of your children...or seen the looks of adoration they have for their parents...then you have experienced true love. i knew the moment my sons were born, the second i accepted that 3 yr old into my life as my step child, and the very instance i knelt before the woman i proposed to, that true love existed. for any individual, true love is not something that you can seek, or expect, it is something that must be given wholly and unconditionally. it is something that is found in the honest expectations and feelings of any person willing to find it, not in the fairy tale romances of would be princes and fair maidens. it is something the writer finds in their accomplished works, or a sculpter sees in a finished piece,....it very simply.....is in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 20, 2007, 06:48:43 PM

Hi, Naturewalker,

Thanks for the comments.. :) :)
You got it girl..You've already observed and experienced  what that is..
Accepted or unaccepted, expressed or unexpressed- true love IS...God  IS...

Human condition/physical worldly condition .. is LEVEL of FORM...Deeper condition is LEVEL of Mind..

This is a THOUGHT driven universe..or Belief driven..[Beliefs are Thoughts..accepted for some reason]
Thoughts..leading to feelings and Emotions..and then to physical actions..So the starting place is thoughts..in the Mind!!
Mind...has No limits..Not limited by space or time or anything...unless you believe that so.
You are not trapped anywhere.... as you only believe that so..
You are FREE in your Mind..Free in your soul..Imaginary prison is made up by Ego mind..


Body responds as for what Mind says to it to do.....as a Biological Robot.
Remote Controller to the Robot..is Mind..
Then what is Mind....Who does the Decision Making momentarily in everyday life?

Two aspects/ Two masters/  Two minds..Twoness!!
Ego mind/Split mind  and   Whole mind/Unified mind.........Ego and Life Force/ Holy Spirit/ One Spirit/ Higherself/God within/ Observer/ All-that-is....Whatever you call that  Infinite Source..

Every  moment you do decide with...Ego mind/Wrong mind....or.... Whole mind/ Right mind...
So every moment can create......War.....or......Peace..Only TWO Choices always..


Default program in the mind or Automatic/ unconscious  program is choosing with EGO....as we choosed it by the original error..  ???
Conscious program........is Learning to go with the Right mind..Clearing, releasing and forgiving  all what we've  learned through Ego Drama.  ;D
This is a Thought Reversal program as  Jesus  explains in ACIM....

Mind is like a Computer..  ;)
We choosed some default program by an ERROR...only one error..
We can replace those consciously with New Program..Then old ones get deleted..That's a learning process..
When you install Windows 2007 into your computer, Windows 95 get automatically deleted by the system!!  ;D ;D

Certainly i suggest you to watch..What the bleep do we know movie..
It explains  "Mind actions" in visual form using  traditinal teachings, Quantum physics and Biology.
We disbelieve ourselves..our deeper connection..our capacity to Love beyond all imaginary limits..Our infinite reality..... ::)
till we wake up to that "State of Mind" one day to see this whole thing is a made up unreal drama..  8) 8)

Good Luck for all of you..keep moving with that unshakale Faith that you are guided by the Inner Guide within YOU!!
I love you all !!   :) :)
 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on December 20, 2007, 07:09:57 PM


Hi Big T,  :) :)
THANK YOU BIG T!!
You already expressed in words what you feel about this whole thing..
Awarness of the other for Who they really are..and Who you are really.. is the game!!
It's Great to hear from a real-life man for what they feel about this..
Thank you very much..Big T..Well done..!!

Hi, Majere 26,   :) :)

Thank you so much for your contribution..from your life experience..
It's a real life experience showing that Deeper Connection though sometimes we try to ignore it by thinking from little, superficial Ego mind..
It demands brutal honesty to clear with your own mind and self..and accept for what it IS..
you did a Great job writing with your own experience..Certainly it resonates with so many as from their life too..
Thank you!!   :) ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 20, 2007, 09:09:59 PM
Yeah, well...call me shallow, but I'm going to go with Big T. *hugs*  I'm going with plain old, "I love loving you and I love being loved by you," and all the manifestations of that interaction.
 
It takes an awful lot of love to still love someone who is a jerk day-after-day over an extended period of time, with no explanation for the behavior and no indication of love in return.  And there is that mad-rush-down-the-ski-slop-shared-total-abandon kind of love that can last forever, even though the mountain must be climbed again and again. I'm not after a lofty experience. I'm after the heart stuff.
 
It is pretty safe to love someone without the risk that they won't love you back. But who wants to live safe? There is something special about pulling love out of the drawer and wearing it.
 
Consider potential energy and kinetic energy. Both are energy. Potential energy is lacking expression. It can boast about its energy, but kinetic energy doesn't have to boast. It's expressed energy. If the law of conservation of energy applies to love, and I think it does, then it is a pretty sweet deal, indeed.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on December 20, 2007, 10:16:13 PM
Classic example … this morning the telephone rings … my wife (Noy).

N: … after pleasantries  “What time do we arrive in Bangkok?”
T: … “12:30, same flight I took before”
N: … “Ok, thank you”
T: … “Welcome - Bye”
N: … “Tillak, ... how much you love me today?”
T: … “How much do you want?”
N: … “Everything”
T: … “But I have nothing”
N: … “When you have nothing, then I have to love you more – Bye”

Click!

T
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 21, 2007, 01:40:17 AM
Sune... Thanks... I love the way you write. It shows the depth of your feeling. That is very heart warming! Thanks... I like talking to you... Connections?

Nadine, I know what you are saying. It forms a very big part of our everyday experience of love. It feels good to love and be loved back. Sometimes you love despite the fact that the other person is being a jerk!  ;) It happens the other way round also! The other person continues to love you despite you behaving like a jerk!! ;)

Big T! I would say I love you... and hope to be understood! I sleep very late after my day's work ( ENT Surgeon) and my daily dose of reading and writing which necessarily must be done AFTER my children are off to Slumberland! Yet... very often i donot know when my husband sleeps!! I must wake up early in order to prepare the children and their tiffins for school, prepare for my own day at the hospital- my breakfast and bath etc... ( I will tell you about the etc. later, if you care to know! ;) ) And am off to work latest by 8:30 in the morning- my husband is still asleep... I still love him... very dearly... sometimes I fight to get a moment with him... but I still love him!!!! He does not say much! Quite like the coke without the fizz?! But I can ( and sometimes do) shake him up to get some froth out of the bottle!!!! 8) So your sample conversation with your wife is... a few more words than my sample conversation with my husband!

N: When are you planning to wake up?
S(anjay):.......
N:( going for bath):It is past eight. You need to be up...
S:.......
N:(ready to go): 'bye... see you...
S:......

S calls at 10:30 on the cell phone

S:It is full moon night on 25 Dec.
N:Eh..hh..
S: The Taj is open for photography two nights before and after with tripods.
N: Good. You want to go?
S: I am confirming MY presence with the group- I shall be leaving on 24 afternoon and will be back 25 afternoon. Is that ok?( Giving him credit for informing. I doubt that if I had said it is not ok he would have stayed!)
N: OK
S:OK Click!

I STILL LOVE HIM!!!!

Majere... My story is also not quite short and explains why I still love my man... why I am crazy about him.. etc.. etc.... This post is already quite long. So you- I shall reply a wee bit later... Feels good- though- to be in love- does it not???
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on December 21, 2007, 02:23:02 PM
in 21 years we have had the best times of our lives, but also the worst time of our lives. the levels of give and take involved in the past, present and future are immense but nowhere near being done. being in love with her has been a great joy, and has shared more than enough of its own pains. it has been filled with laughter and sorrow, it is in a way our own sense of duplicity. where there is one, there is always the other. having never really sat and thought about it in a manner to place into words, it has ever been hard to explain. the trials and tribulations along the way; and yet to come; have forged what we call our daily lives.
I am capable of being someone; as is she; that can either bring great sorrow and sadness or great joy to the days that comprise our lives. Our children often have us at our wits end; as if we needed more stresses in our lives; but would we sacrifice the love that we share in each other, or with them? without hesitation or doubt, no we could not. i try to tell myself through it all that it just part of a greater something that we feel  and have been so long committed to.
regardless what may come my way , unless by a choice out of my control, i know that i can not walk away from the love i feel for her. it has transcended both time and space. i mean that literally as it has grown within me and been carried by me for these many years and in every little twist, quirk and experience it grows daily.
i had posed the question to her before as to what it is about me that she is most loving of. her reply was thought out and came back: "it is the little things. like when you come up and kiss my neck from behind, or when you massage my shoulders regardless a pain or stiffness that exists. it is the handmade gifts that show the time, effort and love. it is in the way you have spoon fed me ice cream, or brought me flowers with no specific day, occassion or purpose other than to give them to me."
i can only respond in similar answer.
it's not a fairy tale, and i know that i am no easier to tolerate on a daily level. but in these past 21 years we continue to show each other that this love is true.  sometimes love stinks and is a burden, but never one  i would replace. it may not be so easy as running it through the laundry machine, but it always has its point of cleansing and renewing itself. love takes work, effort, and commitment. without these love would be nothing....nothing gained by nothing ventured...at that point..it becomes easy to see where love may be taken for granted.  but for us it is renewed every day, sometimes in the most simplistic manner, but others with great effort. i would not change it for the world.....tis a great feeling to be so in love with someone so complimentary to myself....and we do exactly that...we compliment each other....nay, perhaps i phrased that wrong....we complete each other. together we are whole, apart we are two pieces seeking to become one in each other. it is indeed great to be so in love with the same person ever day and looking forward to a future with that same person, despite the quirks that life may bring.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ellie on December 21, 2007, 06:38:24 PM
It was our wedding anniversary yesterday(Dec 20th) celebrating 39 years! I was 18 yrs old(almost 19)..
people tell us we look young for our age..but life hasn't always been that easy, a fireman's wage wasn't good back then. But we loved each other and still do (though we argue like billyo ;D)
We have 3 super kids, 2 lovely grandsons and a gorgeous little granddaughter( 2 and half)..
My husband may have grey in his black hair but I still see the young handsome man I married..we have a lotta laughs and I still 'feel young'.
It was love then and its love now ;)
nitey nite
elliex
p.s. To answer the 'is it love ?' question..you don't need to ask, you know ;)


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 21, 2007, 11:45:59 PM
Love... in any form allows us to, or even forces us to experience extremes of emotion- joy and pain, patience and frustration, smiles and anger- All of us who have been baring our hearts here are putting in conscious words our deepest feelings and also realising ( as if a jog is needed) just how much our loved ones mean to us... spouse- parents- children- friends. Sometimes such verbalisation also makes us realise just how much of a jerk each one of us can be in some situations!

I love being in love....
My life is wonderfully fulfilling ( and sometimes exsperating) because of the love I feel!! We - none of us- would trade these feelings for anything else!!!

I must say a BIG thank you for sharing so much so freely... It feels good to find so much love around us...
Have a great year... full of love and all associated feelings...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on December 22, 2007, 12:07:01 PM
This has been such a great post. It truly makes you think that there is hope in the world.
My true love died 16 years ago, and I still miss him terribly, but i look into the eyes of my children and granchildren and see him everyday.  This keeps me going.  I am still angry with him for leaving me so young, not his fault ofcourse.  I am retired and wish every day that he were here with me, but i know he's looking after me from above.  He loved Christmas and was always doing surprising things, like putting a chirping bird in the Christmas tree and all day long we could hear this chirping bird driving us all mad.  We still have that chirping bird and we always have great laughs at Christmas remembering all the crazy things he did.  He was a wonderful husband, father and grandfather, we all miss him so much.  We were high school sweethearts, it wasn't love at first sight.  We became friends and in our last year of high school and that is when the sparks started to fly.  When he went away to Stanford in California he wrote me every day for a year, and I wrote him back.  We had our ups and downs, and once i threw his engagement ring back at him for what reason I can't remember.  I found it in my coat pocket the next morning!!!  We were married in 1955, and he died in 1991.  We were married for 37 years.  My children are all great moms and dads because of their dad, they knew he was the boss and they had a very healthy respect for him. He loved them all so much.  Never once did he raise his hand to them.
It's Christmas, a very Merry Christmas to everyone, and have a prosperous New Year.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ellie on December 22, 2007, 01:16:14 PM
I enjoyed reading that about your Hub Alleyrose, its very poignant and I can understand your feelings well,after having a long marriage(ours was 39 years this week..married young)
But its also brought back memories of my Mum & Dad. They were a real 'love match'. But my Dad was killed in a terrible road crash, when he was just 47 and left my Mum with 3  children(I was 9)..
My Dad loved Christmas, he could play piano and he sang very well too and he loved this time of year.
I was thinking back today, of our first Christmas without him..it was awful,there was such a huge gap in our lives without him,a loving kind man and very well-liked man.
nearly 50 years on, I still cry for him.
My mother,although only 45 when he died, never married again.She told me once that she loved him so much that noone she met afterwards came near to how she felt about him..
a true love match.
I was blessed with loving kind parents..God rest them both.
Happy Christmas alleyrose, you have your good memories of a kind loving man,
elliex
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on December 22, 2007, 01:32:21 PM
Thank you Ellie for your kinds words.  Having loving parents is a bonus,  I was not blessed with such a luxury.  I was brought up in a foster home during the war for six years. and hardly knew my parents, and ofcourse blamed them about my unhappiness.  When you are a child you don't know the circumstances, so i blamed my mother until she died.  Such a waste of time.  I made my own family, five children would do it.  And i hope that they feel the same way about us as you did of your parents.  I'm much wiser now and have learned to forgive, a little too late, my mother did the best she could under the circumstances.  I was so lucky to have such a wonderful adult life that i forgot about all the unhappiness i endured as a child.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on December 22, 2007, 05:08:59 PM
Touching.  Can't put into words well enough - so...

Love to you all - my friends.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ellie on December 23, 2007, 05:45:38 PM
Touching.  Can't put into words well enough - so...

Love to you all - my friends.

Carrie

Yes I found Alleyrose's story very touching Carrie....
Ive just been thinking of something that happened in my Mum's family,to her cousin. He fell in love with a woman 12 years older than himself and his parents were against it (according to Mum) cos of the big age difference but..
they went ahead and had a long happy marriage and that they adored each other was there for all to see.
Sadly the wife died quite suddenly and he was totally bereft. A true love match.

Happy Flippermass Carrie ( I think thats what Citabria called it...) ;D
Yule tide greetings to you & yours ;)
ellie ;)x
p.s. BTW, we're still enjoying 'Strangeworld..Leap of Faith'...the fellas really like it, I pop it on regularly
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on December 23, 2007, 05:52:48 PM
Ah, glad you like the music Ellie.  They have a new one out - www.strangeworldmusic.com (hint hint!).

Have a great Xmas (or Flippermass, whichever you choose to celebrate).

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on December 26, 2007, 11:34:15 PM
I can't believe this thread has dropped so far down the rankings at this time of year... but to resurrect it, I think there's a very slight chance that a quick hug and cuddle last (Christmas) night might have put me at the top of the slippery slope of eventually being able to answer the original question... :o

The question now is: 'Do I "push off" '?

(if I do, that bloody Devil Duck might have something to answer to...)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 27, 2007, 03:02:37 AM
Is there true love for real?

Yes.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on December 27, 2007, 10:50:16 AM
 ???  Now the Christmas period is over, I'm asking myself:

Is it also an act of love to say 'I won't try to stop you' and let the person with whom you've shared half a lifetime walk away?

If that's the case, it's going to be the most difficult thing I've ever done, and I see no prospects for 2008 ................. :'(
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on December 27, 2007, 12:54:25 PM
If true love is about making the other person happy, then you letting them go - if it makes them happy - is a great sign of love.

you may not see any prospects for 2008 but, believe me my friend, they will come in time.

Love

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 27, 2007, 03:52:21 PM
Carrie,

Dec 6th, is an interesting blog post too.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 27, 2007, 04:05:15 PM
Bagheera,

Hard decision. Let her go, ask her to stay?

What is the least selfish thing you can do? I ask because I don't think real love is selfish or self-centered. Make your decisions based on the love in your heart. Do not let anger and hurt define what you do.

There are always prospects. The emerging insights will be your guide...remain open to what comes, embrace it. You will know what to do when you least expect to know.

(Yes...this is the voice of experience. I won't say everything about this situation will be easy, but it is manageable.)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 28, 2007, 03:17:14 AM
Bagheera,
Letting go is the most difficult part in any relationship. You must have heard the cliche about the butterfly- it gently alights on a still hand and flies away when you run after it. So does love. True love IS. I am repeating myself... but believe me- you will see light soon. True love may or may not be reciprocated- that does not change the nature or the depth of love you feel.

The problem that arises is when we are not our true love's true love. What should a person do? Stay with the one you love or the one who loves you?

You may continue to love the one you love now forever...

May the new year bring you peace.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Rob Hopcott on December 28, 2007, 08:34:35 AM
Bagheera

I can't put it as elegantly as naturewalker but I've always thought of love as being like a cobweb that radiates away from me.

Each person I have ever loved is still attached to me through my personal web and there is still a part in my heart for them all.

When we love, I don't think we ever stop. Even when loving brings pain, it still comes from the act of loving. To stop loving, I would have to stop being me.

I'm sure that there are many I have loved in the past who have forgotten me but that doesn't matter. My love for them has enriched me, still does and I wish them well.

Perhaps those who have moved on away from me might even now love me more ... because I have let them go.

But, by moving on, they have enabled me to experience new love too.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Rob


 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 28, 2007, 01:01:07 PM
Rob
That was quite elegant! But thanks... my words were heart-felt... perhaps that is why their appeal!
 There is often conflict in our most important and most loving relationships. Sometimes the conflict tests us and very often it tests our emotions and love. There is no right or wrong answer. Like all other things in nature- love and every body who loves also are in a kind of dynamic flux... we change... hopefully for the better.
Sometimes circumstances just happen to show us or our emotions in a less than desirable light. We agonise, we pray, we hope and we continue to be in love. Very often we are in love not with a person but with our own idea of love. We just find the person a convenient expression of that loving feeling. While this may not always be the case, it very often is!
If we are lucky enough to find someone- anyone- who cares and who feels similar feelings even if at different times... the sailing becomes smoother... but not necessarily easier.
However, bottomline stays. True love- as you also mentioned- helps us grow and experience life more strongly than we could without it. It may or may not be reciprocated- it always gives us MORE... more contentment, more angst, more belonging, more insecurity...it allows us to live more fully!
Happy new year to you, and yours, too...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Rob Hopcott on December 28, 2007, 01:19:12 PM
Well said naturewalker :-)

And a happy new year to you and your loved ones too

Hopefully, the collective intelligence (or indeed the collective love) of these forums can make 2008 not only a better year but also a happier one for all of us.

Rob
 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 28, 2007, 01:25:20 PM
Definitely!!! Here's to a great new year for all of us!! :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on December 28, 2007, 03:29:29 PM
 :-[ naturewalker, Rob Hopcott and everyone else who have added their own words of wisdom exactly when they were needed ..............

I am humbled and strengthened by your positive thoughts and wishes, which I have't even earned. They give me the courage to face each day as it comes. Sooner or later I imagine I'll find the strength to wrtie something cathartic and drag myself out of this .....
Have a blesséd New Year
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on December 28, 2007, 05:45:47 PM
Bagheera,

Your words opened the door for our love to be sent. There is nothing to earn. Love is freely given.

Via con Dios,
(as we say in Arizona)
(whaterver you believe Dios to be)

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on December 28, 2007, 07:42:57 PM
Here's a quote which I think I've recalled correctly.

"People enter our lives for a Reason, a Season, or Forever."

But we cannot always recognise which is which without the benefit of hindsight.  Also, we never know just what is waiting around the corner, good or bad.  Sometimes a bit of pre-knowledge could deflect the crash, or lessen the impact.  Other times it is probably best to be thrown clear by the unexpected obstacle and learn from the lessons afterwards rather than brooding beforehand.

It hurts like hell to leave the comfort zone, especially if the departure was entirely unexpected and involuntary, but sometimes we just have to move on.  Life goes on, and it takes us with it.

Bagheera, if the tide's too strong to fight then find a lifebelt (I strongly advise against drink, drugs, or bitterness), hang on, and go with the flow.  (Easier said than done I know, but if it's the only option left you may as well start swimming for the unknown shore.)

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 29, 2007, 02:04:55 PM
Sometimes when all the doors seem to be closing in front of us we get so busy looking for a way out that we forget to ... stop... and breathe! The windows may be open!!! Bagheera- the very fact that you love so strongly is reason enough for a lot of love to come your way! Chin up! Write- read- listen. Do whatever you CAN to keep afloat! And remember Gone with the wind? TOMORROW WILL BE ANOTHER DAY!!!!!!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on December 29, 2007, 02:30:22 PM
 :o  "Quite frankly, my dear, I just don't give a damn ..........!" :-\
           thanks, Naturewalker!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on December 29, 2007, 02:35:46 PM
You remember TOO MUCH of Gone with the wind! ;) Difficult as it is- try to sail... the wind can help you stay afloat just as easily as it can sink... your direction of sail has to be just right! I am hoping to see you 107 not out... even now...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 03, 2008, 09:38:32 PM
Hi,  Naturewalker,  :)

Great to see you here..I’m back after some busy holidays..
I’m really sorry that I couldn’t  contact you on those days..How about the Email address first??
Your profile doesn’t show any for the moment..
I’m  trying to catch up where I left..It’s GREAT to see  many writings  here with different life  experiences.
Hey, I got a chance to read the book you mentioned anyhow, ..Celestine Prophecy..
That’s a interesting journey..outer and inner..Explanation for Human Drama through ENERGY Transaction..
I remember when  researching for Origins I’ve found “  Mayan Calendar…and other predictions from Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce,..and  Members of Lost civilizations as Atlantis and  Lemuria”….they all have  same sort of connection to this physical worldly drama..in holographic Universe.
Have you read the book..” Holographic Universe” by Michael Talbot?   ;D ;D
It just connect with all sorts of Ancient Teachings and modern scientific researches to explain the Holographic nature of  the whole thing!!
Sure the World seems  too much complicated or chaotic…but… Looks are deceiving..
It’s a ingenious Trick from this “One Ego mind”..appearing as many…..
…..Replaying endlessly that One and Only error of Separation from the Source…

I like to invite you to read “ The disappearance of the universe” by Gary Renard…
and to visit this.. http://www.theself.org/

http://truthisone.org/

Hope to catch up with you sometime..Cheers..  :) :)

Hi, Nadine,

I saw your frustration  about “ having to do with a jerk for sometime”  and feeling like ,
“ How on earth can I  love that one?”
Certainly I do understand your frustration or anger, … we all have that kind of  experiences one way or the other..
You brought a important question on to the table...”How can we deal with those difficult people in our lives?? “ 
                                                                                                                                                       
It  can be a partner, parent, sibling or child or relative or any…Closer the relationship, bitter the experience..isn’t it?
You are not ALONE.. You’ll NEVER be Alone..We all have experienced  it or experiencing  that  one time or the other..

Let me ask you a question……
How REAL it feels when facing with a life threatening or traumatic scene in the night-time DREAM?
Can you imagine the emotional shock and pain or bodily reactions as though you’ve  engaged in it as REAL?
How Real it feels that  agony ,when you are in that Dreamy-land?
How happy are you if someone tap on you  in the middle of that  Nightmare saying, “Hey , that’s only a DREAM..Wake up!!”
Where is the dream…Where is that traumatic experience when you wake up?
How relieved are you  to feel  that it’s …Nowhere?
Can you or will you  hold grudges against the figures, characters or events happened in that Nightmare? 
NO !!
WHY?
You know for sure that it’s not REAL when you Wake Up. .. Nothing really happened..It’s  a Movie projected by  the Unconscious Mind
though it feels so REAL when you are in it!!!!
Movie was authored, directed, & filmed by the Unconscious mind and  you / audience, watched and engaged in it
through the Unconscious mind!!
Your physical eyes were closed and  body  was in sleeping mode, wasn’t it?
How real was that Drama?

How do you feel if  you know that Day-time life drama is the same????????????
All mystics knew it…..Quantum physicists and so many others know it..by now!!

All our Choices and Decisions in daily life are colored by Unconscious mind patterns, memories, experiences, beliefs,..and so on…
even though we appeared to go on with opened eyes during the day..
[That’s the hidden projector of the life movie.. Reason for the unexplainable or sometimes mad behavior or anything..]
Unless we are  Conscious Observers of THOUGHTS to make Conscious decisions!!
 Your perspective of life or a character or a situation in it,  is colored by your Unconscious memories and patterns..and that leads to Automatic judgments, actions or conclusions..

“Love at first sight or hate at first sight..…De ja Vu…., Sudden automatic responses to people or places or situations that no explanation can be given..??” You’ve heard or know all those..
This is about the vast unknown part of the mind...
Conscious mind is only the TIP of the ICEBERG……only 1-2%......other part is hidden..buried under the superficial level..So no conscious memory..
From this little conscious mind we think we know or we may  hope to control  what’s going on in our lives..yet unconsciously  behind the screen the Movie is already Done..[ holographic movie- Like the Play station Game CD—You have choices, buttons to press , missions to complete, but if you look closely Game is already done on a CD ..]

Do we really know  what’s going to happen in next 10 mins??  ???

In the Bigger picture..every moment is like a Blank page..White blank page to the Writer or Artist who has no  idea what’s coming onto it  at that moment ..but seeing in wonder at the results  later..”Have I really done this?”
The beauty is when you see the Bigger picture….You Accept What IS  rather than Resisting or fighting..…make  Decisions  consciously..Choose options consciously.. …Forgive everything and everyone on this whole drama knowing  that it’s the same Ego mind-unconscious dream..
Quantum forgiveness is seeing the unreality of the whole-thing and Forgiving that Unconscious mind projections..
unconscious dream-figures and events..
It’s not the old fashioned forgiveness that makes the Error/ Fault   Real..It doesn’t work..
It’s not “ I forgive you because I’m better than you…You did hurt me and You deserve punishment  somehow.. But I forgive you because I’m good enough to do that”  kind of deal..

It’s seeing the unreal drama caused by ONE UNCONSCIOS MIND…ONE EGO MIND…though myriad of Bodies and Personalities..
Like this  One Human Body..with  more than 50 Trillion individual Cells capable of independent single life but choosed to work together and specialized themselves to deal with different aspects of this Body.. to make it appear as ONE !!

Once you take off your eyes from the other’s Body/ Personality  and focus on that same Ego mind caused the drama and FORGIVE that…
then you are in a different place..different state of mind.. Being an Conscious Observer….

All moments in life can be treated as  opportunities for that Forgiveness..Forgiving the collective unconscious ego mind patterns..
It does not mean that you’d better  live with that partner or comply with his demands or anything else..
It means  Forgiving the unconscious pattern at the LEVEL OF MIND..
At the LEVEL OF FORM  you may  SEPARATE or live together if you choose to or do whatever  is appropriate..….it doesn’t matter..
That Forgiveness is the LOVE in that case..

It’s not about a so called lofty experience..but it’s about the FREEDOM..
Freedom from boiling Thoughts of hate, anger, guilt , sadness or any negative feelings..that cost your physical, mental and
emotional well being and the whole LIFE and interactions....
Freedom from the vicious cycle of  “Victim –Victimizer” Game…
Freedom from the Never-ending, recurring Problems and all coming with that..
It’s not about changing the World or the other person…..but changing the way you view it..!!

Does that worth to have a another look or to give it a shot??   ;)
I sincerely invite you to read “ The Disappearance of the Universe” by  Gary Renard.
You will thank yourself later for doing that!!

Good Luck!!   :) :)

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 04, 2008, 12:50:52 AM
Oh gosh, Sune,

I wasn't talking about any one jerk in particular. I write fiction, so I make up people to make a point. Sorry. The jerk was for contrast. Anyway, it wasn't very clear...the point I was after was apparently not made.

Thanks for caring...but, I'm okay. (married 22 yrs so far)

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 04, 2008, 01:13:03 AM
Dear Nadine, :) :)

Oh, that's kind of funny...sorry for the misunderstanding too..
It's for any sort of difficult relationships we may have one way or the other at any time in life..
By the way what's your point really?
This is going to be fun!!  ;D ;D ;D
Happy New Year to you all!!
Cheers,
Sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 04, 2008, 01:14:07 PM
Sune
I really liked everything you had to say and have found some interesting reading in the books you mentioned. From an esoteric point of view everything made perfect sense to me. It's not about who we are or what we do as much as it is about how we view everything around us. You are absolutely correct in your statements. Unfortunatly I just wish that there were a larger populace that thought in the same fashion.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on January 04, 2008, 03:12:34 PM
Love has so many analogies:
 It’s a potion with mystical qualities, a brandy that intoxicates us, a spiritual vapor hovering in the shadows waiting to strike (and tame) the most callous of hearts, a genie that once removed from the bottle becomes unmanageable, a form of heroin that addicts us so terribly we suffer unspeakable humiliation in it’s name, a warmth and tenderness that comforts as a baby's blanket, a sweet aroma that tickles our senses and blurs our vision, a song the heart sings, a pillar of strength some call God.

With so many varied references it most surely exists, but the meaning of true is as vast as that of love. 

Maybe a recipe should read; one part lust, one part obsession, one part respect, stir in some understanding and serve over a heaping portion of tolerance.  :-*

CaddyJ
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 04, 2008, 04:07:49 PM
Hi   Majere,

THANKS for the comments..I’m  glad that you’ve read those books..
Sure you do understand with your own life experiences..
We can look back at our own life and relate those ideas into it to see clearly.
I’m so glad you did!!
Good Luck!!   :) :)

Hi, Caddy,

You are a Poet !!
I love  your poetic writings…
Great to see you in Cyber-space!!
Cheers   :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on January 04, 2008, 05:54:04 PM


Hi, Caddy,

You are a Poet !!
I love  your poetic writings…
Great to see you in Cyber-space!!
Cheers   :) :)


Thank you sune! The brands of love leave poetry in us all. Some just choose to ignore it.  :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: McWawa on January 06, 2008, 07:08:34 AM
I keep coming back to this thread on the hope that i will read some inspiring note which will convince me that true Love is real, and that there is never a dead line in life when too late.Yet the options in the poll are too restrictive, in my opinion.This morning i have spontaneuously had  the thought that un-true love is revealed by an ending, whereas true Love never ends.


Bryan
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: bagheera on January 06, 2008, 07:22:46 AM
Streatham, you give me hope (and believe me, I need it!!)

If you can see possibilities after TWO YEARS, that somehow puts the last two months in some sort of context, for me.

And yes, my door will ALWAYS be open, TWENTY-two years from now if that's what it takes .........  :'(
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 06, 2008, 11:59:05 AM
Bryan,

I don't think there is a deadline. My husband's aunt married last year at the age of 76. We've known him for a long time. They were a foursome for 50 years, then both lost their spouses. Now they are like 20 year olds in love. It is so cute to watch them. I've never seen either of them happier or looking younger. They are on the go all the time. And the way they look at each other is simply priceless.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on January 06, 2008, 12:10:51 PM
What a wonderful story about your husband's aunt.  You are right there is no time limit.
I'm 74 and live alone, my husband died at 58, and living alone all these years is not fun.  I know I can never find anyone like my husband, but a companion would be nice.  I live in a small town so it is hard to meet anyone new, but if it happened I'm sure i would be more than happy to try again.  I think it is too late for me, but I'm so happy for your family member.  Happy stories are hard to come by.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 06, 2008, 01:24:22 PM
Allyrose,

I can't remember for sure, but I think she was a widow for 10 or so years. She'd send a meal a day to his house while her best friend, his wife, was dying...over a three year period.

I'm delighted with the outcome of this. I've always thought they were a better match for each other, glad they thought they were a match too. Get this, they had to take marriage classes (at his church) before they could get married. Sorry, but I thought that was funny.

I've seen this happen several times in the small farming community where she lives. Regardless how good the first time was, it seems that all these "old farmers" are happy with the second time too. Probably not too late for you either.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: McWawa on January 06, 2008, 01:53:28 PM
Bryan,

I don't think there is a deadline. My husband's aunt married last year at the age of 76. We've known him for a long time. They were a foursome for 50 years, then both lost their spouses. Now they are like 20 year olds in love. It is so cute to watch them. I've never seen either of them happier or looking younger. They are on the go all the time. And the way they look at each other is simply priceless.

Nadine

Thank You !
I needed to read the positive reply that You wrote, and just did. I went to the city and walked the streets yesterday evening, last night,and watched the people. Although entertaining and enlightening to observe others, finding no attraction to the activities which abound there i began to wonder if there were any hope for my future or if i had missed my chances. You've cleared the fog which had clouded my perspective. Thank You again.

bryan


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 06, 2008, 06:00:50 PM
Bryan,

You are most welcome. Keep the faith...it can happen...and it does happen more often than not.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 06, 2008, 07:32:43 PM
Bryan,

I can't imagine you having anything to worry about in that department. A charming fellow like yourself. Be open to it.

~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 07, 2008, 12:45:52 AM
Hi, Caddy  :) :)

Sure it is.. Love is a subject that inspire the poet within!!
Glad to see the poet appear from that hideout!!
Good for you!!
cheers  ;)

Hi  Majere,   :) :)

I read your long story again…starting from 1986,when you were 14….
Oh, gosh…You were  unbelievably   mature-minded from a very early age.
Usually most of us blindly, restlessly, floating in fantasy at that kind age, you were watching, noticing,  observing
 the story unfolding in front of you  in a detached mind-set  rather than emotionally involving in it  with too many expectations.!!
It’s like you’ve been a Conscious Observer for your  life-story from a very young age and you remember all   
of the chain of incidents , coincidences as a MOVIE  in front of you…Amazing!!

No wonder, you do understand all sorts of ideas in those books!!
With your detached Observer mode, you’ve  already watched your Life Movie so far so restfully..
Even though you are so younger than most of us I think , in your restful observing mind-set  you are so matured, ahead of your time.. 
Have you watched the SECRET Movie and  the ILLUSION movie?
Thank you for being here..You are doing GREAT!!
Cheers.
http://www.thesecret.tv/

http://www.illusionthemovie.com/

I invite you all to watch this colorful presentation here for Life’s Mystery..with beautiful  pictures and words..

http://www.thegreatillusion.com/

Hi, Streatham  :)

Thanks for your comments streatham,....

Sure, you feel  like in a big confusion as trying to get ahead in a huge hurry with a restless mind-set to  know what FUTURE holds..
I want to say one thing first .. CALM DOWN  PLEEEEEEEASE....
BREATHE..Deeply..Close your eyes..Stop on your tracks to breathe..to smell the air around you…
to feel gratitude for all you have right now..to feel, to sense your body sensations..to be in Present Moment..” Ask yourself to calm down, and remind it again and again..’
Now moment create the next moment..the next…the next…  the  next… Future is a relative term..When it’s here it’s only NOW..
It’s only Now moment..all there is..

Have you read Eckhart Tolle’s books.. “Stillness speaks”,  “ The power of now” and “  A new Earth” ??
http://www.eckharttolle.com/
Watch this one too..
http://www.thegreatillusion.com/


So I would say, try and focus on yourself and what you deserve from life, and see everything that happens as a learning experience.  Easier said than done I know.  And follow your instincts.  If you really feel you had the right woman and that will never change, keep a place for her in your heart, but get on with your life too as that is so important.  She may return.  But, you may, after a while, find that as you change, you are ready for other things, new experiences,  new friendships and relationships.

Well said Streatham, See, you already said to Bagheera, what’s needed to be done..Be the change as you want to see.
Then automatically other things will come into place..the puzzle pieces of the enigma of life..
There’s no right or wrong answers here..It’s only about learning to “Look at Ourselves”..Look Within..Look at  where our Thoughts are and how those thoughts  creating the daily reality in front of us..

If mankind hasn’t invented the MIRROR we don’t see ourselves / our eyes/ our facial expressions…
So we only look at others and their expressions and clash with that..We do not see us, but see others.!!
Bodies and personalities are always in conflict as they show, you are separated from the other..
That’s the Ego Script in this Drama.,
Ego Script is about separation from infinite Peace, then confusion, guilt, self hate, fear,  revenge… all can of worms..replaying endlessly..Ego never wants to look at itself..!!
How about the invisible Mind..what separation?? It’s only one Ego mind..one whole mind..
So we clash with ourselves.. in the bigger picture..
We do unto ourselves..
Ultimately it's only one of us here..One Mind..  ??? ???
Feeling like draining energy after a good fight?
We just attacked another aspect of ourselves in deeper reality.
[Read more on “ The disappearance of the universe” by Gary Renard and ACIM pl.]

But in truth we see ourselves/our hidden unconscious patterns  inside  them..and we do hate to see that..so the  vicious cycle going on forever..till we are ready to Look at ourselves..
They act as Mirrors to us..We act as mirrors to them.. Too many bodies,different aspects, multiplicity, complexcity, Devil in the details?

If one start to look at oneself and respond consciously while forgiving at mind’s level then other  get that reminder to themselves without even  any discussions or anything..
This is a Thought World..Thoughts become Reality..
Everything man created in this world  first bubble up in the mind as Thoughts..Is there any other way??  ::)

Take your time to see yourself clearly.. to observe your thoughts, patterns, reactions, behaviors and use  any event as a Forgiving opportunity!!
Great that you are learning all those..Keep on learning..You’ll thank yourself later!!

Good luck!  :) :)

Hi  Bagheera and Bryan,

I would say, Hope for the best..keep on going with a happy mental picture for  your dear wish..
You don’t have to worry about HOW or WHEN  it is coming..worry thoughts are like  sending an undesired message..
This  Now moments with Grateful thoughts  orchestrate the next moments..the next and next..
Watch the Secret movie..see how it resonates with you..
 There’s no deadline  even at Death..if you are skeptical for the After-life,  I  invite you to check this site with an open mind..

http://www.victorzammit.com/

Keep on learning about SELF and looking within at  all times..
Then you KNOW what’s unfolding in front of your life..
Good Luck!!   :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 07, 2008, 02:37:32 AM
Sune,
Thank you for those kind words and compliments. I have often been told that i was more mature than most my age, perhaps this is why in many of my earlier years i was not so content with the other kids in my neighborhoods. I have long been a solitary figure in this world and that for me has constantly been both a hinderance as well as a comfort. for in my solitude i can be myself without cause or purpose to have worry, or fear of someone else's opinions of myself. Thankfully at a later age, this would of course not really concern me, i had decided i would no longer put stock in the opinions or judgements of people that really either have no relevance to my life, or simply just don't know me.


Streatham,
I don't really know if you read my previous long/short story, but allow me to relate yet again a few more pages from my past with my situation....i recommend that if you haven't, you do read my previous lengthy post..certain relevances here will make sense in that particular post. here goes:
My wife and I were divorced in august of 2000, seperated in april of the same year. I was very much against the notion, but instances on both sides; though we won't mention them in great detail; had torn us from each other. adamantly i argued against the divorce, and then settled for begging, something that was rather unorthodox for me. nevertheless, she would follow her decision and we seperated only to be decreed divorced in august. at this point i would move back to my parents house and begin trying to reassemble my life without the two people i loved the most...my step daughter and my now ex-wife. I was 27 when this happened. Then the reality hit me that my parents had suffered the same fate. they were divorced by the time they were both 27 having married young in their lives and my mother would then suffer through another marriage later while trying to raise her two teenage boys by herself.
i would finally, after several months, find myself in a new career and succeeding in it at a rather rapid pace. I could not even focus on trying to date another person. my mind was still a blur and without work or my career to submerge myself into, i was but a zombie trying to live a miserable life. I had begun drinking, quite heavily and rather often. I figured if i couldn't be with her, i'd be better off drowning her memory and thoughts of her in the booze. I couldn't sleep, i couldn't eat, all my thoughts were about her. i was getting on with my life, but my heart and mind were stuck in the past. i was enjoying great success, but bittersweet it was without her to share in it. thankfully from 9-5 i was sober, and the alcoholism wasn't in control...but once the shift was over and there was nothing to settle my mind upon but thoughts of her, i could only drink til i passed out. this was the only way i could find peace to sleep......though peace is a rather inappropriate word.
now i have long been a fan of internet chat and sites related to the sort, if one observes the people and the way they interact, it is easy to pick up nuances that give more information than is perhaps intended by these e-chatters. i have been a bartender as well as a retail sales manager, i have long watched people and grown accustomed to observing them.....later as a mechanic (who would have figured) i would also realise that in working on peoples cars you can really tell a lot about them. so armed with my skills of observation, i would seek great joy in watching these chatters and getting to know them ....after a while it was also my turn to get involved in the game...after all.... i'm drunk, this is keeping me from driving, and i can once again interact with people and remain anonymous..unseen even....this fit me like a glove at this time in my life.
a year and a half would pass living this way.....the drunken e-chatter....when out of the blue....a chatter i had talked with on a few occassions would private message me...i had often thought this person had a fancy in me due to certain key phrases and statements, but this is the internet, i can't possibly take this seriously....to me this is just unthinkable. in many of our previous conversations this person would ask me questions in relation to my ex-wife and my divorce and such ( cause my ex was all i could usually talk about) and i had always thought there was a certain familiarity to this person...but usually dismissed this notion........after all, my ex-wife left me and wanted nothing more to do with me....
one night, this person would pm me yet again and actually called me by my first name....not the site name, but my real name.......even drunk this hit a warning in my head...jarring me near sobriety...i could not ever recall telling this person my name....we talked for a bit as i tried to figure this out.....all my queries to how they knew my name were brushed aside....i knew these tactics well....i had even witnessed them used on me before....so i confronted the person and asked what she wanted.....she then asked if i knew who it was, i ventured forth my guess....
indeed, it was my ex-wife....despite all my previous thoughts. i became enraged, confused....and yet, still in love with her....after all, this was my heart, my life she was playing with...
i had given up hope and thought all was lost....i found solace in something i knew would take me to the point of oblivion...but here she was......back, at last....all my dreams and prayers, all my wishes and hopes had been answered.......she was ready to reconcile what was left of our relationship.....she confessed that she never wanted to divorce but could see no other way for us to go on....as i look back now, i can see the truth of that....
i suppose my point is this: true love exists.....but so does confusion, anger, pestilence and many other things....true love is possible, though it may also possibly be a very obscure thing....or clouded ....we live in a world where variables exist that test and probe our limits...our temptations and our courage..we are tested every day....many times i might add...
i have since quit drinking....i have been drink free for nearly a year now..although i must admit, once she returned and we reconciled (never remarried though i still call her my wife) my drinking slowed and came to a halt......i just plain lost all desire for the liquor, it's scent and taste both revolting to me. due to these variables, it is a test every day to not drink....even with my loathing of the stuff......for though i love my wife very much, i have come to realise that great love, and true love travel hand in hand with great hatred.....this may sound derogatory, but trust me it isn't.....though my wife does and is capable of many things that will forever irk the living hell out of me,.....i will forever love her....
i love her smile...the feel of her soft lips when we kiss, i love her manipulations (especially towards other people) as well as the smell of her hair.......there are just so many things i love about this woman.. her very scent.....is literally an aphrodesiac to me......(i drive her and my daughter nuts because i tell them i am attuned to their scents...i don't know how , or why, but i know their scents....they both believe me to be half dog)
i understand the feeling of being comfortable with somebody, as well as in love with them.....i am willing to forego the comfort to have the feeling of being in love......when i had previously stated that true love took sacrifice, i could not have been closer to the truth....for me at least.....that i am willing to sacrifice so much and give so much of myself for her or my three beautiful yet devilishly troublesome kids is a testament to true love.... that i am committed to them and anything about them.,....yet another testament....
i never said true love was always paradise,........oh no, i won't mislead anyone to believe that...it comes with its scars and its memories that we all wish we could forget....there is bloodletting, tear falling moments when all would seem and may even be lost.....and these may come more often than the moments of absolute bliss....but when i look into her eyes and see that full smile upon her face, or hear the laughter of my children.....i know that true love is there..
having been to hell and back .....i can also say that even when things appear their darkest...there is always a light that leads us back to what we all call home....and no where on earth is a home that is ever more comforting...than one that is built and filled with true love...i refuse to live in guilt or regret...for it was never an easy task getting here....and in my 35 years...few they may seem to others, from what i have witnessed and experienced....i am wealthier in love, than the wealthiest person alive.....all the money in this world could never bring my heart to feel what i possess for my children, and most importantly.....whom without, my life would be empty ........my greatest love.....my wife.
hold onto your hopes..and get along with your life....think of yourself now...for when all seems lost and you're least expecting it.....your world will right itself again.
Thank you all of you for your contributions and remarks....and may you all someday know, what i now know...but had to go through hell to find out.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 07, 2008, 02:38:30 AM
I aplogise for my consistently lengthy posts.......i should be writing my stories ...but this seemed to ease my mind. i hope it helped
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 07, 2008, 07:16:25 PM
Hi, Majeree, :) :)

You do have a long-lasting memory of the whole movie..
Have you thought about writing that  story ? It will make a classic romantic novel
with a spiritual touch to the life mysteries....Don't you think?
Good Luck!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 08, 2008, 02:55:19 AM
funny you should mention that....she has been telling me the same for quite some time now.
to further add to that, it is something that is always in the works...and yet i can never quite put it to pen in a way that pleases me, and really tells it well...if that can actually be imagined....sometimes we are our worst critics
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 08, 2008, 01:06:19 PM
Hi!
I am back... from Nepal... I gind so much has happened in my absence and I do not want to miss a single word of all that has been said/written since I last wrote. Thanks Stretham, Sune, bagheera, Majere... and so many more that I cannot name offhand for all that you are willing to share.
It may seem like to end of the road- more often than you want to count but it just starts off a new journey! I know that despite all that may happen and no matter how frustrated we may feel in unexpressed or differently expressed or even inadequately expressed love- love is true whenever it is there! It just takes a little effort to recognise it and then some work to keep it going strong- or... it goes... I love the feeling. I am willing to work on it. I may not always get what or as I want it- but so long as I manage to get a reaction- the relationship- any relationship- is alive. And... THAT... is what counts!
More later. I want to be able to reply to a lot of things written in the last few posts and it may take me a while...
BUT HEY! I AM GLAD TO BE BACK!!!!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: streatham on January 08, 2008, 03:44:15 PM
Thank you for these later messages too.  Majere, yes, I read your earlier and later post and they were both very interesting and encouraging.  Thank you for taking the time to post them.

And I am glad you are back Naturewalker!  It really makes you wonder what love is though, although not so much in the cynical way that I used to wonder. 

Dawn
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 08, 2008, 05:27:52 PM
Hello, Naturewalker,  :) :-*
 
So glad to hear from you again!!!
I got your PM and we'll be in touch!!
How was your days in Nepal..unusual experiences..different world??
So Glad to see your writings here again!!
Take your time to sink in here..if that's what you want to do..
Cheers....

Hi, Majere, :) :)

I'm not surprised if she is saying the same thing to you!!
OK, come on..one page a day is enough at start..give it a go..!!
you have a brilliant memory and a keen observing EYES like a hawk.
One day you'll look at it thinking.."Have I done that?"
Good Luck!!

Hi, Streatham,  :) :)
Hope you got some ideas from all those writings to view your situations and options clearly!!
Good Luck!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 09, 2008, 12:22:30 AM
Hi!
you are right... Nepal is a totally different world! The place is up and running before sunrise and you would have had your breakfast, read a book, taken a walk in the hills, played with the kids and even watched a movie and yet... it is not even time for lunch! Time seems to be in slow motion here!! And... then... you get back to racing against the clock! The morning rush to pack the children's tiffins, get them ready and off to school, getting ready yourself for rushing to work... oops... I forgot the breakfast!
But I have managed to slow it down a bit.. I want to.
Good to be back.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 09, 2008, 12:28:56 AM
Hi, Naturewalker,
Great to see you back!!
Think you've made most of it...being in the slow motion world..yet infinitely enriching!!
Here it's running with Time..all in fast moving...yet not knowing  to where or why we're hurrying so fast..!!
Glad you are here again!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 09, 2008, 12:35:45 AM
 Love in any form- nature/ spouse/ children/ friends... makes the time run either too fast or reallllllly slow... depends on physical propinquity! Is that the correct word? If you ar with a loved one- time flies! If yopu are waiting for a loved one- it is incredibly slow!!!
Balance...
Balance...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 09, 2008, 12:57:05 AM
Not sure about that word..I couldn't find.it..!

Anyway You are right..Time is another mind creation..so flying fast or moving slow or stand still ......
 is depend on the "State of mind" at the  time being.....like being with someone you love or something you dare to sink in with your heart and soul....
Got to go now,...getting late for the next job..
So glad to see you Naturewalker,...We keep in touch!!
Cheers  :) :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sugy on January 09, 2008, 03:17:41 AM
Hi all,

Is anybody going to believe me if i tell you that i read this thread right through, from page 1 to page 12?
Yes, i read all your words about love, pain and the wait.

Quite a few of you have shared your utmost secrets. It requires guts and i appreciate everyone who did it. You wouldn't know how much it would help even those who aren't in those situations themselves. I may get mixed up with the names and the associated stories as i read it in one go, but i really wish you all find real love where you want to find it.

And for those of you who have tried to explain true love beautifully...like naturewalker,ellie,carrie,et al, your explanations have been great.

Though i do not have so much guts to put my own past problems down in words, i have immensely benefitted from this thread. Thank you, one and all, for making MWC a wonderful place. Life is beautiful, indeed.

Love IS. But it HURTS!

Sugy
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 09, 2008, 09:52:17 AM
Hi Sugy!
Good to see here! :)  :)
 Exactly my sentiments- it takes a lot of courage on the part of posters to post their inner most thoughts and feelings. I probably mentioned something to that effect myself a few posts ago! Try putting down your feelings. Sometimes sharing your feelings with a group as caring as MWC can give a you a completely new perspective on your own feelings. People here are not just good writers- they are good. GOOD. This particular thread has a life of its own! It breathes and talks a million feelings and a zillion thoughts- most of them simply beautiful and a few of them somewhat painful. I must commend you on being able to go through all twelve pages of this thread at one go!!! Pat. Pat Pat! :) I still want to spend a little more time simply reading some of the posts posted while I was away. Mindblowing! Is it not?

Sune... The word is correct! Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary- page 1153- middle column... I especially looked. 8) This word was rather beautifully used by a very close friend of mine quite a few years ago. It stuck in my head... This seemed to be the perfect occassion for such a ' heavy' word! - nearness in place- proximity; nearness of relation; kinship; affinity of nature; nearness in time... says it all. Does it not???? ;) I love you. Thanks.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 10, 2008, 12:43:15 AM
Hi!
you are right... Nepal is a totally different world! The place is up and running before sunrise and you would have had your breakfast, read a book, taken a walk in the hills, played with the kids and even watched a movie and yet... it is not even time for lunch! Time seems to be in slow motion here!! And... then... you get back to racing against the clock! The morning rush to pack the children's tiffins, get them ready and off to school, getting ready yourself for rushing to work... oops... I forgot the breakfast!
But I have managed to slow it down a bit.. I want to.
Good to be back.
NW

Good to have you back Naturewalker. Glad you had a restful holiday. I know what you mean about getting back to the grind. I start back Monday, the kids back to school Tuesday....After four weeks at home, we'll all need to adjust. I miss the kids when they go back to school but will be so glad to get my exercise routine back on track. Beginning to twitch here. ;)

Hang on to that slow pace. I don't know what that is unless I'm out in nature with a canyon, meadow, forest, river or ocean nearby to hike/walk around in. You've got a good screen name. ;)

~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sugy on January 10, 2008, 01:19:12 AM
Quote
Exactly my sentiments- it takes a lot of courage on the part of posters to post their inner most thoughts and feelings. I probably mentioned something to that effect myself a few posts ago! Try putting down your feelings. Sometimes sharing your feelings with a group as caring as MWC can give a you a completely new perspective on your own feelings. People here are not just good writers- they are good. GOOD.

NW, I do agree about the courage part. Yes, u had mentioned something from your side and i do appreciate the effort taken to share it with us. I also believe that people here in MWC are extremely good humanbeings. That is what i like most about this forum. As for putting down my own feelings, i will, someday, when i become as courageous as you all. Thanks for the support you all show.

Sugy

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 10, 2008, 03:52:28 AM
The poll is based on either 'gut' or 'feelings' ... on the subject of the latter I found this is my wanderings and thought you all might want to read it. If this is breaking copywrite I'm sure the Mods will delete for me.

Feelings
Once upon a time, there was an island where all the feelings lived:
Happiness, Sadness, Knowledge, and all of the others including Love.
One day it was announced to the feelings that the island would sink so all repaired their boats and left.

Love was the only one who stayed -- Love wanted to persevere until the last possible moment.
When the island was almost sinking, Love decided to ask for help.

Richness was passing by Love in a grand boat.
Love said, “Richness, can you take me with you?" Richness answered, "No, I can't. There is a lot of gold and silver in my boat. There is no place here for you."

Love decided to ask Vanity who was also passing by in a beautiful
vessel, "Vanity, please help me!"
"I can't help you Love. You are all wet and might damage my boat," Vanity answered.

Sadness was close by so Love asked for help, "Sadness, let me go with you."
"Oh...Love, I am so sad that I need to be by myself!"

Happiness passed by Love too, but she was so happy that she did not even hear when Love called her!

Suddenly, there was a voice, "Come Love, I will take you." It was an elder.
Love felt so blessed and overjoyed that he even forgot to ask the elder her name.
When they arrived at dry land, the elder went her own way. Love realized how much he owed the elder and asked Knowledge (another elder):

"Who helped me?"
"It was Time," Knowledge answered.
"Time?" asked Love. "But why did Time help me?"

Knowledge smiled with deep wisdom and answered, "Because only Time is capable of understanding how great Love is."


Author Unknown
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 10, 2008, 04:24:48 AM
Ah, Big T, that's beautiful. I love that.  :-* Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 10, 2008, 12:02:23 PM
Feelings Island! :) :) Paradise? Beautifully put!!
You are consistently good... and consistently loving yellow! What is the background there?? ;) ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 10, 2008, 06:18:32 PM
Last night I set out to post here. It resulted in a long, heartfelt story that went all over the map. Needs editing.

Since I'm off for a few hours on road trip to the mountains seeking serenity, I want to make sure this doesn't go unsaid because you never know...

Since I'm very emotional, sentimental, and mental these days, I feel I can safely say...


I love you people.  :-* :-* :-* ... Muwah to all of you with hugs for each!

You have been consistently supportive, humorous, encouraging, and caring. This is a rare thing on a public website. I consider you all friends.

As writers, we expose our souls and having this safe haven to do so is truly a gift. You are all gifted people with huge hearts. I am in awe of your kindness, wisdom, and caring natures. You are appreciated, respected, and cared about on my part. I wouldn't dare say these things anywhere else without fear of being flayed.  I hope I can give something back to you someday.

Thank you for your insight, positive vibes, and everything else. You are better than the icing on the cake. You are my home within my home, my family within my family -  very special indeed. Thank you. Serendipity is mine upon finding this site and all of you in it!


I love you.


~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on January 10, 2008, 07:11:19 PM
Well said.  I feel the same way.  I know that everyone seems to care about each other.  I definitely love you all.  When there is trouble in your life, it seems easier to write about them than to say it
face to face with someone.  Again well said DGSquared.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 10, 2008, 07:54:47 PM
Feelings Island! :) :) Paradise? Beautifully put!!
You are consistently good... and consistently loving yellow! What is the background there?? ;) ;)

Not my work ... unfortunately! But I am a magpie and when something 'touches' me I like to keep it on record. This one I was tempted to post at the beginning of this thread ... but I waited to see how it (the thread) would develop. When I finally posted I felt you all deserved to share the pleasure.  8)

Serendipity is mine upon finding this site and all of you in it!


I love you.


~Deb

The feeling is mutual ... stay "very emotional, sentimental, and mental"   :-*

When there is trouble in your life, it seems easier to write about them than to say it
face to face with someone.  Again well said DGSquared.

I agree ally ... but on the other hand if you are not face to face ... how do you expect to get that hug?  ;)

Love reigns!
T
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on January 10, 2008, 08:07:49 PM
You are right Big T, but sometimes you think you have worn out your welcome and just want someone to talk to, and who better than MWC.

Yup! there really is true love. 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 10, 2008, 08:11:55 PM
sometimes you think you have worn out your welcome . 

No you haven't ... not here anyway. "Hugs" to you allyrose.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 11, 2008, 01:02:25 PM
Deb!
In India we say " Never say anything negative... even if you feel full of fear or insecurity inside. You never know when Godess Saraswati chooses to sit on your tongue!" That is very deep. You see Saraswati never lies. She is the deity of knowledge and when she utters something it comes true!! So go for your few hours on the road, in the hills and come back safe and recharged! You are valued and loved dearly- not only here- I am sure elsewhere, too!
When my husband goes on a trip alone- as in without me- I cannot sleep till he calls me from his destination. If he and my daughter go together, I feel even more so- cannot relax till they are back home safe and sound. But when we travel as a family, I feel nothing. No fear. Nothing at all. We are all together- for good or for bad!
Also
I must appreciate everyone here for the consideration and empathy they show. There is almost no negativity here! Yes Deb! All the consistent posters are consistently nice... courageously, maturely GOOD.

Allyrose,
Sometimes it IS easier to write than speak about feelings. And the feel of the words is often quite as strong as the feelings themselves... we live our emotions on the paper/ computer screen. It seems as if every little cell tells a story that the words must capture. Sometimes, we are not quite satisfied with the words and write more or write again- till we manage to say it just right!

Big T!
Thanks for sharing this one. There is one I want to share, too! It touched me... But this post is already running too long! I would like to post it as a stand alone!

Thanks! Again!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 11, 2008, 03:09:50 PM
Thank you Allyrose, Big T and Naturewalker. Extra hugs to you all. Blowing kisses...catch them. :-* :-* :-*

Naturewalker, I feel the very same about my husband when he travels and even more so when he takes the kids on a boy's day out. They drive away and I think, "There goes my family, please God, bring them all home safely and I hope they have fun."

I'm looking forward to reading your next post.

Thank you for sharing your Goddess Saraswati with me. It's fascinating and enlightening to hear about other people's cultures and beliefs. Unless we seek these things out or are told, we may never know these wonderful facts. A positive attitude is always best.

Have a blessed, bountiful day.

~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on January 11, 2008, 03:35:21 PM
Naturewalker thank you for sharing your Godess Saraswati with us.  That is what is so great about MWC we learn so much about each other and our different cultures. Can't wait to read your next post.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 12, 2008, 01:23:55 PM
Ok... here goes... I hope you like it as much as I did...
All feelings went out one day and decided to play hide and seek. All of them were there- honesty, dishonesty, envy, friendship, love, madness and hate. Hate had to seek. All of them hid. The counting started." One... two... three... ninetynine... hundred! Ready or not- here I come!", announced Hate. One by one, he found all the feelings. All except Love. Love had hidden very well... in the rose bush. Hate just could not find her. ( Sorry about the gender selection- the story was originally written so! ;))
All were disappointed at having been found so easily. Hate had a little tougher time finding sincerity - but Love eluded him completely! Envy was watching. She could not hold back and shouted," There she is- in the rose bush. She has hidden among the delicate petals." Madness, too lost control and dragged Love out- through the thorns. The thorns pierced Love's eyes and she let out an agonised cry. She could no longer see anything! She had been blinded by the thorns.  :'( :'( In a moment, the game of hide and seek had transformed into a nightmare!
God was watching, too. He was shocked. How could he give Love her sight again? So He did the next best thing that he could... He doomed Envy to eternal seeking... Hoping always to find Love- but never quite able to find her! He also decided that blinded love needed help. He condemned Madness to stay with Love forever.


Thanks- all of you... I hope you all liked it as much as I did. I am not so great a story-teller as many of you. I tried my best!

Lots of love,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 14, 2008, 04:24:09 PM
Hello,
So glad to see you all here!!
Lovely stories..I like all of them!!

Naturewalker,  :) :-*

That’s beautiful NW!!  THANK YOU for sharing!
Hope you got my PM yesterday..
Glad to see you  here..Thank you!!

Big T,  :) ;D

It’s a Lovely  Story…THANK YOU for sharing..!!
Dear Magpie, pl. keep on collecting  beautiful items..will you??  ;D
Where is that Big yellow Ball  in the sun?? I like your new one too!!
Thank you!!

Deb,  :) :-*
So glad to hear that your mum is getting better and you are alright…
Lessons we learn through emotional experiences are Lessons for LIFE here….
as they shape the Inner Mindscape… Filters we look at the World..!!
Great to  see you  bounced back to Peace of mind.!!
Thank You!!

Allyrose,  :) :-*

THANK YOU for being here..
Communicating, sharing, enjoying the company.....
with your Love and Understanding..
 Thank You!!


The Echo of Life
By: Author Unknown



A son and his father were walking on the mountains.
Suddenly, the son falls, hurts himself and screams: "AAAhhhhhhhhhhh!!!"

To his surprise, he hears the voice repeating,
somewhere in the mountain: "AAAhhhhhhhhhhh!!!"
Curious, he yells: "Who are you?"
He receives the answer: "Who are you?"

Angered at the response, he screams: "Coward!"
He receives the answer: "Coward!"
He looks to his father and asks: "What's going on?"
The father smiles and says: "My son, pay attention."

And then he screams to the mountain: "I admire you!"
The voice answers: "I admire you!"
Again the man screams: "You are a champion!"
The voice answers: "You are a champion!"

The boy is surprised, but does not understand.
Then the father explains: "People call this ECHO, but really this is LIFE.

It gives you back everything you say or do.
Our life is simply a reflection of our actions.
If you want more love in the world, create more love in your heart.
If you want more competence in your team, improve your competence.
This relationship applies to everything, in all aspects of life;
Life will give you back everything you have given to it.

YOUR LIFE IS NOT A COINCIDENCE
 IT'S A REFLECTION OF YOU!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 14, 2008, 04:31:07 PM
Quote
YOUR LIFE IS NOT A COINCIDENCE
 IT'S A REFLECTION OF YOU!
This is not coincidence, this is not half truth, this is the whole truth. If only i had known this then and not had to learn it later through mistakes.....but alas, it was the mistakes and decisions that made the life and the lessons all the more worthwhile, as well a life well lived. Thank you Sune for your wonderful words...They are always very inspiring. Hugs to all for their contributions to this ever inspiring thread, you have all made differences in the lives of anyone that reads these posts.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 14, 2008, 04:34:56 PM
Oh, Dear,  ;D ;D
You are here...
That's not a coincidence..You are supposed to be here..Aren't you?
Just in the same moment..amazing..
THANK YOU Majere!!!
You are a inspiration too..as we all are to each other..!!
Thanks!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on January 14, 2008, 05:22:34 PM
Dear Sune, thank you for your kind words and you are an inspiration, he poem brought a tear to my eyes.  Life is definitely what you choose to do with it.  We are all responsible for our own actions.  Somehow some people don't get it.  Thank you all on MWC you are all to kind and insightful.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 14, 2008, 05:41:51 PM
Thank you Dear Allyrose!!  :-*

Life is definitely what you choose to do with it.  We are all responsible for our own actions. 

That is the message..Well said Allyrose..Thanks!!
No worries for who doesn't get it at the same time as Life is always repeating the Lessons till we get it
as  a very patient Teacher..!!
All words and ideas are Reminders for the mind to see beyond the obvious and the mists of time.
Thank you all for being here!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 15, 2008, 02:34:17 AM
I am always here....It has become quite the fortunate habit to have coffee while reading these upon waking. This seems to help my days become brighter and my nights even better. It is such a great relief to be able to clear the weariness from my brain and wake to these postings. There is insight, enlightenment, the company of friends and loved ones....what more could anyone possibly ask for? :-* :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 15, 2008, 01:19:45 PM
So... All of us diehard romantics feel all the pain and the elation... the highs and the lows... We All Know True Love Is...


Thank you all for sharing so easily and inspiring so naturally that it seems a part of everyday living!

I really love to read this thrread in its pieces. Keep coming back to it! As we say! What to do! The urge is uncontrollable!!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 16, 2008, 08:44:03 PM
Hi, Dear NatureWalker,  Majeree,and all..  :) :)

THANK YOU SO MUCH  for  the comments.. It’s encouraging to see your remarks and concerns for me to write more..
Sometimes I ask myself “Why am I doing this?”  ??? :)
Then the answer comes right away..”  May be many are reading those ideas, reminders..
that belongs to our common forgotten Heritage..If at least One Person could see them clearly..feel the urge to see it clearly..
Then my Time and Effort is Worthwhile.. and that’s why I’m writing here..  ;D

The World you see with Body’s Eyes   run by a script…EGO SCRIPT..
SCRIPT is based on TWO-NESS,  DUALITY …. Not  ONE-NESS.
We all subscribed to that Script by our own Choice..Subscribed to Ego’s New letter and momentary basis commentary.
We’ve completely forgotten  about  the original ONENESS  as it is not in our superficial memory or awareness anymore....buried deep under the Unconscious memory..  ;)

Before the World and Universes..before the original BIG BANG..It was only ONENESS..only PEACE AND LOVE..Nothing else..ONE MIND..
All  are same ..all  are equal..all in peace..as  images of the Source who has created all..
But No FORMS..No physical forms.. No Bodies…No Levels..
Only One mind…..Whole Mind..Only Awareness that we exist..  :) :)

According to ACIM- A Course in Miracles.. www.acim.org
http://acim.home.att.net/acim_tx-1972.html - Text book/ACIM..   AND “The  Disappearance of the Universe”…

It’s only a “ONE THOUGHT  in a tiny tick of time” ..thought  about SEPERATION from the Source and go on creating on its’  OWN..
“ Creating my own life..    my own  experiences as I want …I want to go on my own...... Familiar idea??  ???
My child said to me when he was about 2 yrs old..” I want to cross the road on my own..Don’t hold my hand..Let me do it on my own”....Same mind pattern..??   ???


All who joined with that idea are subscribed to the  Split mind..or Ego mind.. …We all did..  ;D
So now we have  TWONESS.. DUALITY….Whole mind and  Ego mind / Split mind....
and then the BIG BANG representing the creation of all you see here..[ Watch  the movie, “ What the bleep do we know?” pl.]
For the curiosity we joined without knowing the depth of that ONE ERROR..and how much it would  cost us in terms of the .. “Peace of the mind.”.   ::)

But once we found ourselves in an Alien-land…..    ???  :o         [ Think of the migration to a far away country..]
Separate Bodies, personalities, Different Forms, shapes…attacking each other for Body’s hunger.. Survival in a chaos world..
Isolated, confused..terrified..then GUILT for  our own decision..HATE for the self for choosing it..Self-doubt for our choice…..Feeling FEAR for all  that could see here..Sadness, Depression, Unworthiness, Insecurity, Fear for life, Attack and Defense, Revenge, Lack for everything……all can of worms…. ..
Everything we still feel now…  all  are originated from that  SEPERATION from Nurturing Loving  Source.. 

Duality of everything…..Opposites for everything…Welcome to the Land of Opposites…..Experience of Twoness…..Familiar here??

Good and Bad……Light and Dark……Pain and Elation……Highs and Lows….Love and Hate……Attack and Defense…..Happiness and Sadness …
Warm and Cool….Life and Death….Subject and Object..You and Me ??    ::)


The GOOD NEWS is  the THOUGHT of SEPERATION has  not being accepted by the Source as  a Loving nurturing Parent..  ;D ;D
So Error was corrected at the same time..according to ACIM.
But we, who chosed it  still  Replay that terror moment and all dramas endlessly in a Dreamy-State of mind, in a Trance state of mind..as metaphysically speaking..
We accepted  that Dreamy Reality as REAL  and still play the GAME..What you accept is TRUE AND REAL for you..
So  the memory of Oneness is buried deep down in the unconscious mind while Twoness Game is in the superficial Awareness..  ???

“Holographic Universe” by Michael Talbot is an extraordinary book giving scientific researches  about the vastness of  the Mind
 going beyond usual Ego script limits and experiencing the original states of the mind..The Oneness..

Civilization by civilization, all throughout the Human  History   we are  still playing the  Game in the Dream
with  same Thoughts and emotions..endlessly….Haven’t we had enough?  ;)

  I HAD  ENOUGH..So I chose to find a WAY OUT..
Intense emotional traumas and dramas made me to LOOK AT MYSELF….rather than LOOKING AT THE OTHER 
and to STOP the complaining and blaming Game, Accept the Responsibility  for my  Thoughts and  Find a Way out from the Drama..…  :)

So many choose Suicide as a Way Out when in unbearable emotional pain..or Drugs or Alcohol or anything  to hide or deny the pain..or as a temporary Way  Out..
But if  we  start asking questions from ourselves  while feeling ready to be brutally honest with the self..then Answers come to us  eventually through other people, Teachers, through websites, books..anything..
Best thing is to PAY ATTENTION  for the things coming to the  experience..while asking HELP, Guidance from that ONE WHOLE MIND/
/ONE SPIRIT / HOLY SPIRIT , keeping  the  mind OPEN to the ideas ...!!  :) ;D

WE  NEVER left the Loving Source..  SEPERATION NEVER accepted in the WHOLE MIND....  :-* :-*
It’s only in the superficial  little  mind as we accepted it..and symbolically experience it all through the  so called LIFE  STORY of  the BODY…

Death of a loved one, spouse, parent, child or friend..
Screaming baby when seperated from the nurturing,loving, securrity of the mother's womb..
Divorce, Separation..of the partner, spouse..
Migration to an unknown country..unfamiliar surroundings, unusual experiences..
Losing a little child in a big super market complex…..all of our life stories symbolically replay that terror moment of Separation
and  all coming after that  ONE  ERROR..  :o :o

So it’s ONE PROBLEM…and ONE SOLUTION...as we all know consciously or unconsciously..if we admit..

FORGIVE THE DRAMA, CHARACTERS AND EVENTS….…FORGIVE THE PART OF THE UNCONSCIOUS MIND THAT ACCEPTED  THE SEPERATION…AT THE LEVEL OF THE MIND..
FORGIVE EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING  IN YOUR LIFE INCLUDING WHAT YOU SEE IN TV....SEEING THE UNREALITY ...
FORGIVE THE OTHER… MEANS FORGIVING THE SELF..AS  THERE’S   NO OTHER  …METAPHYSICALLY SPEAKING..  ;) :)

IT’S ONLY ONE MIND..ONE BEING..ONE SON..THOUGH WE SEE MYRIAD OF BODIES AND PERSONALITIES ..IT’S AN  INGENIOUS TRICK..!!
TRICK OF THE SPLIT MIND…SPLITTING ENDLESSLY..

YOUR TRUE-SELF IS  AWARENESS..ONE SPIRIT..THAT HAS NO BEGINNING OR ENDING....PERMANENT, CHANGELESS, ETERNAL,...TIMELESS AND SPACE LESS…

THE FALSE-SELF YOU THINK YOU ARE IS THIS BODY AND PERSONALITY..SEPERATED FROM EVERYTHING YOU SEE..TRICK OF THE EGO MIND..

SO WE ARE DOING UNTO OURSELVES..  :o ::)

WE ARE DREAMING OF EXILE WHILE SLEEPING IN THE BED OF ETERNITY..

WILLINGNESS TO WAKE UP…..ASKING HELP FROM ONE SPIRIT…..FORGIVING ALL  ONCE AND FOR ALL…..ARE YOU READY??

BE STILL..STILLNESS SPEAKS..AND KNOW  THAT …YOU ALL ARE LOVED AND CHERISHED IN THAT ONE WHOLE MIND…..
ONE  FATHER’S/MOTHER’S  HEART....BEYOND IMAGINATION..

Experience the stillness of the mind..No Thought zone...You experience the original HOME..!!  :) :)

I WISH   THE VERY BEST AND THE  INNER PEACE FOR ALL OF YOU  FROM THE DEEPEST  PART OF MY BEING..!!
THANK YOU AND I LOVE  YOU ALL…!!  :-* :)

SUNE
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 17, 2008, 09:24:49 AM
Hi, Dear NatureWalker,  Majeree,and all..  :) :)
Quote

Hi! Sune!


  I HAD  ENOUGH..So I chose to find a WAY OUT..
Intense emotional traumas and dramas made me to LOOK AT MYSELF….rather than LOOKING AT THE OTHER 
and to STOP the complaining and blaming Game, Accept the Responsibility  for my  Thoughts and  Find a Way out from the Drama..…  :)


Good! There are many 'games' constantly being played in several roles in our daily lives... Each requires atleast two to play. The game ends when either one refuses to play! Very few are able to find their way out. That seems to be the only way to grow in our lives, though. Sooner we are able to learn our individual life lessons- the easier it gets!



Experience the stillness of the mind..No Thought zone...You experience the original HOME..!!  :) :)

I WISH   THE VERY BEST AND THE  INNER PEACE FOR ALL OF YOU  FROM THE DEEPEST  PART OF MY BEING..!!
THANK YOU AND I LOVE  YOU ALL…!!  :-* :)

SUNE


Though I agree with a lot of what you say- this one I have to disagree! " No thought zone" If we are human- we have to understand the single attribute that makes us what we are- THOUGHT... Was it Kant who said- I think therefore I am? Or should it be I am... I think...?

Love and peace to you, too!,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 17, 2008, 03:41:05 PM
To agree or disagree, I belive, is not so much the point as it is that we should realise that it is the choices and decisions we make in our lives. Key point, that we individually made these choices.
I have long studied different forms of thinking and beliefs. Zenism, Taoism, Christianity, Bhuddism, the list goes on and on. If I had to say which one suits me best, I would have to go with Zen traditionalism. I am not a practicing believer of any particular faith or science, but this belief which holds the singular person responsible, just seems to relate to me far better than the others. I honestly believe that by looking within ourselves, can we better see the problems and joys that happen in our lives. I have long been a student of martial arts and this same discipline has taught me much of myself as well as others. I originally was brought into the martial arts for the obvious reason of self-defense, but thankfully I had, in my opinion, a wonderful instructor who must have seen the turmoil within me and realized that I would benefit more once I started to understand more about myself.
Though I have already admitted to my own issues concerning seperation anxiety, alcoholism, drug use and other such issues, I honestly can't say I have lived a healthy life. It has been a long journey to get to where I am in my life now, and by looking back, or within, I have came to my own conclusions that many of the problems in my life were indeed brought about by my own choices. No one made me drink. No one put the pipe in my mouth and made me to inhale, and lastly, no one but me made the problems in my life appear. It is a journey to find oneself, a journey that without this understanding will lead to many pitfalls in ones life. There will be joy, and happiness as well, but the ratio is staggering when the negative is compared to the positive.
It wasn't my instructor that showed me this reason, or that made me come to this conclusion. He just opened myself to the possibility. It was me, myself, that reached this ultimate realization. It was me, by looking within, that found this truth for myself. He merely showed me another path with which to travel. Through many hours I could not begin to count spent in meditation, seeking the stillness within to find the peace without, was I able to come to this point. But let us not forget that I was not always this way. I was not always able to blind my senses to that which was around me. Finding that stillness was an ever elusive thing. Every sound, every tick, every twitch at one point in this journey, was also an obstacle. It was yet another thing I had to learn to tune out.
Truths will vary from person to person, this is just an example of what has worked for me. For every two steps forward, I have had falls and setbacks, but I have since learned to just keep moving forward, even if it was at a crawl, no matter the cost.
I could say that it would be easy to fall into old habits, but it is never easy to keep moving without those habits. It is truly a struggle, but it is a struggle that I decided for myself, was the better path to follow. I have often wished for an easier life, but were it as easy as I had liked, I probably would't know what I do now, and that knowledge is better than what I knew then. From it I have grown and felt more complete than I ever had. My wife and I could split again at any time for any reason, but I am better armed now than I was then, and that is what helps to make the difference.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 17, 2008, 08:02:15 PM
Hi, Naturewalker and Majere.  :) :)

THANK YOU for the comments..!!!
THANK YOU Majere,  Great Observation through your  life experiences,…
Well said,  Thank you!!  :)

To agree or disagree is a personal choice we make individually.
So all are FREE to make their own Choices and Decisions and accept personal Truths and Responsibility
as there’s no one to say otherwise.

Symbolically whether we know  it or not ,  accept it or not, GRAVITY is a working force on earth..
Whether we know it or not, accept it or not.. Law of Attraction is working through the minds of all..in this reality.
Sun rise and Sun Set is a accepted Truth on the ground level of Earth..it happens every day..
But if we  go to space level at the same spot…what is sun rise or sun set??
Nothing…Sun is where it is and earth is where it is..moving in their own ways…   :)

Onetime humanity believed Earth is flat…next time  they saw it is not……No one will say so now..
Every  Truth has a Truth in some level....but in relative terms of human mind understanding..and it changes all times..
Because we are trying to understand through the limits of Human ego mind..   :)

To quote from
a Zen anthology:

      There is no place to seek the mind;
 It is like the footprints of birds in the sky



http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_now_tolle/eckhart_tolle_chapter1.htm

The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental truth when he made his famous statement:
"I think, therefore I am." He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error:
to equate thinking with Being and identity with thinking.
The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind.
Mind is an instrument, a tool. It is there to be used for a specific task, and when the task is completed, we lay it down.

Compulsive thinking  that we used to is actually an addiction. What characterizes an addiction? Quite simply this: We no longer feel that we have the choice to stop.
 It seems stronger than us. It also gives us a false sense of pleasure, pleasure that invariably turns into pain. Where’s the off button to stop thinking..when we want to??

We are unconsciously identified with the mind, so we don't even know that we are its slave.
 It's almost as if we were possessed without knowing it, and so we take the possessing entity to be ourselves.
The beginning of freedom is the realization that we are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables us to observe the entity.
The moment we start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness becomes activated. We then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that intelligence. We also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the ego-mind.

All true artists, whether they know it or not, create from a place of no-mind, no-thought zone.. from inner stillness.
The mind then gives form to the creative impulse or insight. Even the great scientists have reported that their creative breakthroughs came at a time of mental quietude.
When we stop that constant Ego mind chatter or  start Observing that Thinker and Constant stream of Thoughts as a Outsider…we become Conscious Observers witnessing the Greater part of our Being..
Watch the nature..watch the birds or cat in Stillness..Let the nature teach us about the stillness while observing them in Present moment…They live in Present moment all times..not in Past or Future..Conscious and alert to the present moment in stillness.. Zen monks often express their Stillness practise by watching Nature..

Eckhart tolle uses  BEINGNESS as the Term to explain vast intelligence of the whole mind or wholeness within all..

READ MORE  HERE..…  http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_now_tolle/eckhart_tolle_chapter1.htm

Mind ,Thoughts, and Emotions are not just Human attributes..All life forms  are connected to it in different levels..and much more than
we ready to accept or ready  to know about..

"Kinship with all Life"  by J. Allen

http://www.mindpowernews.com/MindsOfAnimals.htm

http://www.mindpowernews.com/ChimpsMemory.htm

http://www.mindpowernews.com/AnimalTelepathy.htm

It’s a journey to learning to look at ourselves and learning to experience the STILLNESS of the mind ….going beyond Ego patterns and conditioning and beliefs.. but it’s worth the journey in every moment  when   “ Peace of mind” is the  goal..

Good Luck!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 18, 2008, 02:36:28 AM
Once again you give great insight. To some, it would take a lifetime to learn all this, or to better phrase it, realize  all this. It is as you have said, something that one must seperate themselves from their conscious mind and observe in order to gain the further knowledge without thinking. (A brief summary, sorry if I may have misinterpreted this)
Often times I have noticed that without removing ourselves from the thought process and just allowing our minds to wander do we come upon the simple "truths" we will become familiar with in our lives. Yes, truths will vary from perspective to perspective, and I have often found that perspective is everything when it comes to realization. Truths differ from person to person.....one  persons reality is not the same for the next person . Therefore reality is an ever changing, intangible thing. Science has shown that the earth, moon and sun all follow their own cosmic paths. With the sun being the center, everything orbits (not revolves) it in different durations, thereby following their own purpose in the cosmos. We should be more like that, finding our own paths, our own purposes in our lives. (just an opinion)
I so enjoy these conversations. There is so much to learn and so much more to find in every posting from you Sune. I look forward to the next. Thank you also for the wonderful readings you supply in your posts.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 18, 2008, 10:51:25 AM
Sune- Michael Frayn says " everything is relative, even permanence. We rae struck by the permanence of sand in comparision with the transient nature of the footprints we have left in it. They weren't there before we walked across the beach and won't  be there tomorrow. The sand in which they are pressed, however, was and will be. When we look more closely at the sand, though, its persistence and solidity begin to fade a little as well. The footprints vanish by tomorrow because the grains of sand in which they are written are rolled away everyday by the incoming tide and replaced by fresh grains. The eternal ocean that shifts the sand is even less enduring.... We look closer and we see that each particle is in itself a world in flux, a hierarchy of still smaller particles that are not precisely particles, but additionally and alternatively wave formations, fluctuations in probability whose precise state cannot ever be fully expressed. One of the implications of indeterminacy is that there are no things- no fixed, fully specifiable entities. These gritty grains of sand, so eminently, geometrically and tangibly there are analysable into constituents whose defining characteristics can never be completely and precisely determined."

All that is can be ultimately be defined in terms of... nothing! Or everything! Energy? Waves? Interconnectedness- definitely. Nothingness- possibly. Mind, thought and living traits- shared between all creatures and all that are not definable as creatures, too! EAch moment we live is a moment of choice. Each moment that we breathe is a moment of decision. While the vastness of traffic around us requires from us an understanding of everything in nothing - it also requires from us a concept of nothing in everything. ;)

All phenomena that are described are done so with a refrence poit- the observer and the observed. This is not really a duality as it seems... there is no event that does not happen because it cannot be cdescribed. It still happens. It is described in terms of an observer relating to it.

Majere,
All of us have our own life lessons to learn... and our lessons are repeated till we learn!

Love and peace to you all,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 18, 2008, 12:01:45 PM
Naturewalker,
I couldn't agree more
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 19, 2008, 02:59:49 AM
A question.

If you genuinely love someone but find as time goes by, you've got years of neglect and subtle (and not so subtle) mental abuse accumulated, how do encourage someone to hang in there or should you encourage them to leave? Communication is impossible or at best minimal and touchy. You are walking on eggshells. One can only take so much, and you find yourself falling out of love. How do you rekindle that feeling? You want to, you took vows, made promises, you have a life but it's not the happy life you know you want and should have. So much pain is hard to diffuse. What do you do if you have loads of love to give but it is received with what feels like indifference for so long that you lose the desire to even try to love anymore? This question is for a person who took their wedding vows to heart. For better or worse - until death do you part but you're dying inside. What would you advise this person to do?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 19, 2008, 06:53:20 AM
Deb,

An amazing number of women feel this way. I don't know if one can advise them. Each person has to make their decision to stay or go; often what is right for them comes down to what is right for the kids until they are on their own. Each person is different (duh, that was obvious).

Best advice is to be the best friend ever and let the person sort it out with the support only a friend can give. It is sad that some spouses can't or won't nurture the relationship that could, should, or did mean the world to them.

This longing to feel loved as well as to love probably explains the popularity of The Bridges of Madison County. Every time we watch that movie, my husband thinks she should have gone with the photographer. Gosh! Who knew he was a romantic?

The love slowing dying by inches is a common thread in this scenario. I don't think I could live in that situation. That is partly why I mentioned the response to giving love is important (in some previous post). Sure, it can be one sided for a while, but for me, it can't be that way for too long. I'm the type who needs the feedback.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 19, 2008, 02:17:34 PM
Deb and Nadine,
We all do need to be shown we are loved in everyday life. It may not happen all the time but if it happens often enough to makeyou  feel you cannot live without someone- it is still worth trying to make that effort to give and get love. And I donot mean in a sick and sad dependent sort of way. If it was once a reality- it is hard for the feeling to simply die without trace. There may be moments of utter despair and longing to feel loved while loving. Sometimes it is also necessary to let some things be for a while and remove ourselves from the scene- become a spectator- so to speak rather than the actor!

Find something truly fulfilling and passionately consuming so that some things can sort themselves out. Very often we fall for a person who is quite different from us because we find these differences attractive and then we set about trying to change those very differences! A very telling statement by someone or the other ( I donot know who- but whoever said it knew what he was talking about!) ," Men marry hoping their women will never change and women in the hope they will be able to change their men! Both are disappointed.

Men and women are actually wired differently- If you call your husband when he is working on a file in his office- he will either respond,"u..uhuh..." or- 'close that file, pull out the filing cabinet drawer that held it in the first place, find its place, put it back, close the drawer....' While you could be holding your phone between your shoulder and your ear, reading a recipe in the kitchen while trying to collect all the ingredients and heating the oven to recieve the final batter that you have just finished..... You get the drift?? Men get overloaded very fast and with very few tasks. I may be raking up a controversy here but I will stick to this one. Women can go on almost endlessly with any number of tasks that they may need to do! There was once a time in my early days of being married that I used to finish atleast the following concurrently every morning

all within the first forty five minutes of my day!

Now- switch to what my fav man in the world can do.
zzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzz in the morning... only a real emergency can wake him! But you know something!? In the earthquake that shook our home about five years ago- He was up like the proverbial Jack in the box, had picked up our daughter, and his wallet, with his grip firmly on my arm, he led me and Saniya ( my daughter) to safety - fully alert and in total command of his senses. But can you live your life from crisis to crisis or would you much rather feel the love you want everyday!?

On a Valentine Day this man will never get me a rose or a chocolate... He will probably think of some investemnt to 'secure our future' and what would I do with the bonds or papers that are supposed to be my future security? Hang them on the chain around my neck and feel loved because this man chose this instead of teh delicate heart shaped pendant that I would have loved to get?! His 'love language' is Acts of service. Mine is quality time.
Very often, we ( most of us) speak different languages and feel we are not loved when we fail to understand and be understood. Try reading GAry Chapman's Five love languages... quite a new perpective he will give you and help you save what is worth saving and recognise what is not worth fighting for, too.

Believe me when I tell you all this, I have lived in the agony of wanting and feeling completely ignored! But deep inside my heart I know- I cannot- WILL NOT live without my husband! If my conviction is so strong, I am willing to give it that little bit more- and work that little bit harder- if I feel I am missing out on something- I ask! And... funnily... I usually get it! Deep down in my heart I am also convinced that my husband will never give up on our relatioship, too. He has invested too much into this relationship. I do not mean money here! I mean love, devotion and longing.

All the best to you... I hope some of this helps... It may not be what you want to hear at the moment but it may be what you need to hear to be able to make those tough decisions!

Lots of Love,
NW

[/list]
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 19, 2008, 02:40:10 PM
At one point in our relationship our another, both my wife and I have felt this way, that the relationship had become one sided. It always seems to be when we are at polar opposites too....she feels neglected, or I do. Rarely is it felt this way at both ends.
The best advice I can give is to cling to hope, find solutions within yourself. Should it come to a time of seperation then so be it. Sometimes we all need that time apart so both involved parties can do some soul searching and find what is the larger priority to them. Love isn't infallibe even if it may feel true. Sometimes it takes great sacrifice and acts of selfishness. Others it takes pain and anguish before the realizations are made.
For us, when it comes to her feeling this way, I usually take a few steps back and look at what is it that I'm doing or not doing that is missing in her life to make her feel like this. For her I honestly can't tell you what it is that she uses to resolve these feelings.
I don't really believe we fall out of the love we had. I feel we tend to reach a point where we just no longer care what happens. I've seen this happen in my mother through three marriages. She has always claimed that some part of her loves each of the men that have been in her life at these points, but that she could no longer give enough of herself to that person at the point of no longer caring about her wishes and dreams. She tended to focus on her two sons instead. For everyone, and every problem, there is a different solution to this. I suppose it is a matter of what you are willing to do, or endure until either enough is enough, or a compromise/solution is found.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 19, 2008, 02:55:14 PM
Some very good points there Naturewalker. It is funny that you mention that as men and women we tend to speak different languages. Very true, but also funny in an ironic kind of way. We are very different creatures that inhabit this earth. That we find complacency and comfort in each other is truly an act that never ceases to amze me. My wife has often told me at times I try to make some grand display of my love for her with some investment that I deem appropriate, or practical, that had I not put so much effort, or finance into it, the overall project could have meant more. Ergo it's not the size of the toy, or object, as much as the intention of the person giving the object. It never once occurred to me that something as simple as sending my kids to my mother in laws house, lighting some candles and just running her a bath, would be so much more well received than a $500.00 dollar ring, or trinket. To me the dollar sign and the jewelry were a larger sign of my love. I equated value and price with affection. Go ahead, call me ignorant or typical, but it is a perfect example of how we are "wired differently". I asked her a time or two how I could better show her my affection....her reply was...."Tell me you love me more, show me in your actions that you love me, for it is in these simple ways, like when you kiss my neck, or massage my shoulders, or take the kids away and give me my space and peace, that I know you are thinking of me and your love becomes clear." I was flabbergasted. How could these simple things convey what I equated to large, expensive gifts....Why, silly man,.....they came from your heart..not your wallet.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 19, 2008, 04:22:43 PM
Recently, one of my cousins told me that having the same "love language" has made all kinds of difference in her second marriage. I'd have to agree. She is years younger and miles happier these last three years.

As Majere said, "...silly man,.....they came from your heart..not your wallet."

I'm watching him nap on the sofa, snoring softly. He is an idiot, but he is my idiot. I love him, but I can't say why.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 20, 2008, 12:54:22 AM
Majere!
Good to hear a man's perspective! One would think all these self help books and relationship books are really meant only for women- we are the ones who are always complaining! But no- we actually fail to see the other's expression of love- both men AND women! That is because in our own mind- we are showing our love and finding ways to express it in our own style and language. Sometimes- people are lucky and may talk the same language and be understood easily. MAkes life simple- and somewhat paradise on earth quality... but boring! It is our differences that generate the life experiences! We could enjoy the fights and the make-ups. We could enjoy the expressions of love and learn to accept them for what they are!!!

Nadine!
My husband was in Germany attending a professional conference on my birthday this year! He took a day off and took me shopping- just to compensate! And bought me some outfits- Actually waited and selected what he thought looked nice. Even looking at me change and parade in the new clothes giving sincere feedback about what was suitable!!! This is the first time in several years that we spent so much time together FOR ME!!!! It felt good! He would not buy gifts for the whole year in advance- he would not buy the gifts even a day in advance!!!! Somewhere, he probably realises that a few words of appreciation and endearment will mean more to me than any gifts he can buy. So he keeps it simple!!! ASK.... You will usually get!!!

You are right- He is an idiot... but he is my idiot!!! As I am his idiot!!!! Love really makes the world go round! It is everything it is made out to be- It is worth fighting for and dying for. It is worth risking everything for. Funnily, if you donot risk everything- you risk even more!

Have a good and loving life!

Bagheera!?
Where are you??? I am missing seeing you around? I hope you are better...

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 20, 2008, 02:40:16 AM
Nadine, Naturewalker, Majere and Big T,

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom and insight to my question.

My husband and I went through a tough spot a few years back and instead of throwing in the towel, we tried IMAGO therapy. Having been from divorced families ourselves, we wanted to save our ourselves and own children from the devastation of divorce. Imago saved our marriage. It brought us closer together than we've ever been. We need to get back in practice. In the midst of this whole family drama with Mom's cancer, everything else has lost perspective.

As usual, my friends at MWC have come through with loving care. You are a safe harbor in the storms of life. Sounds corny huh? It's a heartfelt sentiment. I love you guys.

~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 20, 2008, 07:33:30 AM
Dear Deb,
I am sorry to hear about your mother... I hope it is not too painful. In cancers, sometimes the treatment is worse than the malady. Being in a speciality that accounts for a mojority of malignancies, and ones that require for important parts of the body to be sacrificed so that the person may live, I would not know which to choose! For the family and often the patient- it becomes a matter of survival. For an onlooker- it is the balance between survival and the quality of survival. I wish your mother well.

The obvious question that follows from your post- What is IMAGO?

MWC is definitely a place I thank my stars I entered! All credit goes to Nadine!!! Thanks!!! I was finding it difficult to start posting and she encouraged me every step of the way. She assured me it would be a piece of cake once I got the hang of it! It is! :)

There were others- but she is a rare gem.  :-*

LOL,
NW

 

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on January 20, 2008, 06:27:03 PM
Hi NW, it's not my own Mom but my mother-in-law, a precious and dear friend and the person who has pushed my writing.

I'll have to explain IMAGO later. It's based on a book by Harville Hendrix PhD.  I'm outta time for now.

Have a great day everyone.

Hugs
~Deb
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 20, 2008, 10:15:37 PM
I'm glad you stayed, Naturewalker. MWC is a special place. MWC is a bit hard to explain to new members, but it always works its magic, then no explanation is needed. This thread demonstrates just how special each of you are and the unique gift of yourself you bring to MWC.

Spending a relaxing week with Carrie is/was an extension of the greatness of the MWC family. I love you guys, and I think it is one of many kinds of real love...

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 20, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
Hello to all..  :) :)

Thank you Deb for the question..
Naturewalker, Majere, Nadine, Big T, your contribution is invaluable..Your Loving support is really appreciated
by all of us reading those posts..What a great place  to discuss anything in the mind?
THANK YOU…  :)

It’s interesting to watch  this conversation develop itself with you all,  when there’s a QUESTION..!!
Hey, we all  are hitting the rocky wall again..

Duality Game..Illusory Duality Game.. Male and Female..Husband and wife..Two different personalities??
Speaking different Love Languages..Hard time in understanding each other..Different views, perspectives, behaviors, words…..
and then getting into complaining, blaming  or hurting ourselves to slow dying process through the dilemma..
We feel  as if the  Victim while the other Victimizer.. We repeat the pattern..or change roles too..

Onetime I myself was a Serious Game player too in this Game..Hurting myself to taste even the death through emotional roller-coaster...
You are not alone DEB, we all have been there..or still playing this game …..
Till we learn  what’s really going on underneath, behind the scenes, exploring the deeper level,
despite all  obvious reasons of daily life on  superficial level of the conscious mind....
Deep down you know you love the man, you want to keep the family together but on the other hand  you feel like it’s killing yourself..
What’s gone wrong?? How do we face this dilemma?

In a metaphysical view, in the deeper mind view,  this is the Duality Game……
though it’s illusory..it feels REAL in this Physical Reality..  ???

How do you feel if you know that YOU HAVE BEEN SET UP TO PLAY THIS GAME THIS WAY??

You have been set up to play this game by the Ego mind script......so it becomes a vicious cycle..that feels inescapable..

Game Rules are ..You see the other as a Body & Personality / Body- Mind consciousness…different from yours..and see the differences in every angle..so the conflict is inevitable..!!

So in any situation you feel the difference…that leads to misunderstanding, hurting, abusing, ignoring or even violence..
 Harboring Thoughts of hurt, resentments, anger is like being in the Mental tornado or boiling Volcano waiting to erupt at any moment..
You know the Game..no need to  explain any more..

As Jesus explains in ACIM…
If you keep on looking at the other  according to this EGO SCRIPT…looking at the other’s Body/Personality as we used to…..
 Then this is like a Never-ending dilemma..one way or the other it comes up again and again..

But if you REFUSE to play this Ego Game anymore and learn to look at the One Spirit/ One Life force as the common theme
and Forgive this  drama, then  you are going to End this dilemma..with your conscious choice..

That’s what I did..and so many others have done that too with their emotional learning process..
I do not look at the Person, their remarks, comments,  or behavior  any more what so ever as I learned to look at the
SAME EGO MIND Pattern and then to offer Forgiveness willingly at the level of mind..silently..
Oh, well… sometimes  it’s hard…..sometimes it makes me laugh as I see the madness of Ego mind patterns..
I do not complain or blame people any more..as I  consciously watch that Ego mind pattern and how it works through people..

Every day you get opportunities to do this willingly and as ACIM explains when we do our part of Forgiving the other….
 subtle changes already occur on the Higher metaphysical levels through the One Spirit..One Whole mind..
It reminds the other in a deeper level the common thread…reminds the unconscious part of the mind  to see beyond  the mad game..….....The Forgotten Reality..

We are connected through the MIND at all levels..
Body/ Personality acts as the Game character as the Ego-mind script/pattern is already unconsciously playing itself..
If you are willing to OBSERVE that and to Choose Consciously  how you REACT or RESPOND and  to offer FORGIVENESS,
then  you are in a
Very Powerful state of Mind to navigate your life  drama consciously..out of the storm..

In the book..TAKE ME TO TRUTH..  [www.takemetotruth.com]
They introduce the method with 3 letters..  PIQ Formula..

P   - Present..Be Present.

 e.g.     When there’s an argument..Be Fully Present..Be in the moment..Observe..
This is about Observing all things going on around you....in your environment and in your mind..
It stops  the temptation to jump in or to react with  unconscious Ego mind pattern..as you are busy watching..


I    - Inquire..Inquire brutally, honestly..impersonally..silently

“ Who is arguing?”
“Who is feeling hurt?”… “ Who feels irritated?”…”Who feels  sad?”.. “Who feels angry?”
WHO??
Not the body/ personality.. but the MIND……Which mind??
EGO…….EGO mind/False self    got attacked..
You just identify with that for YOURSELF.. that’s not YOU..it’s the mind Pattern of this Game..

You are the Spirit/ One Spirit/ One Life force.. Awareness/ Observer watching this..Take that grand identity for YOU!!

EGO is clashing with the other EGO always..it’s  the game script..conflict is it’s language..
Personal lives and in the world you see the same dilemma..

Spirit/Life force/ Impersonal self/ True self.... has no conflict..no difference..it’s ONE and WHOLE..and PERFECT AS IT IS..

Metaphorically  speaking….Ego/ False self and  True self  are like  Clouds and the Blue Sky…
Clouds appear from Nothingness..disappear to nothingness..change colors according to situations..[rainy..setting sun..]
Clash with each other..Lightening,..Thundering..Raining..Snowing..
Blue sky..with unlimited depth,  unlimited Beingness, Space less and Timeless, Perfect as it is...No Separation..Be in Peace at all times..

This is a identity crisis  metaphysically speaking…..
 EGO identity or Spirit/ Life force/True self  identity..??

We’ve chosed  EGO identity before..but we have a choice to  take the  True self  identity..
SO CHOICE IS YOURS IN EVERY MOMENT OF YOUR LIFE..

Q  --Quantum Forgiveness..

Forgiving the other for what appears to be done or not done or said..seeing the unreality or
madness of the Ego-game..

“The Disappearance of the universe” Book based on ACIM offer a simple Thought system/ prayer for Forgiveness..

“ I’m sorry, Please Forgive me for seeing YOU  other than immortal, eternal  Spirit….pure, innocent and whole..
Body is just an image..It has nothing to do with who you really are..
All is Forgiven, Released and Healed..
You’re forgiven…I’m forgiven;
You’re  released…I’m released;
You’re healed…I’m healed;
You are FREE and I’m FREE..
I love you and Thank you!!”

I invite you to use this consciously and continuously..and watch  the  magic happens..  :)

Obviously  No Teachings for the mind in ACIM or Buddhism or any other is going to keep you feel trapped or victimized..
If the circumstances are there to get yourself OUT.. then do what is appropriate..by all means..
Then FORGIVE  the whole drama and the characters as well as the unconscious ego mind pattern in you ..that created the experience..
You will feel the FREEDOM….and  can stop recurring problems in the same pattern in any relationships..

I pasted here some web pages that really give you some insights that will help you in any kind of conflict in relationships..
Hope you enjoy exploring the Articles and the Home pages  too..

http://www.danmillman.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=117  AUTHOR OF THE MOVIE STORY

www.peacefulwarrior.com

http://www.marsvenus.com/Article.php?id=f73b76ce8949fe29bf2a537cfa420e8f Dr. John Gray’s site
http://www.marsvenus.com

Love to you all..  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 21, 2008, 04:49:29 AM
Sorry to be so shallow or stunted in my development, but I like the touch of skin, the twinkle in the eye, the sleeping sounds and laughter, and I like being in the here and now, not in my analytical mind. I like candles and romance. And, I like someone special...and I like it when he likes me with a tilt of his head, a smile, or a hug. I'm an incurable romantic. Life is short, don't look for a cure, please.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 21, 2008, 10:02:52 AM
My sentiments... exactly! I love all the talk about spiritual growth. But I love to be present... here and now! I love love and I love the idea of love!  :) :) these things about ego and about duality or unity or the rest of it come when the basics are done. Remember Maslow's hierarchy? Food, clothing and shelter- first level human needs... self realisation is higher than all the rest and comes after self worth and love!!!

Sune- you are enlightened and lucky. You may be able to analyse anything in terms of love and ego. However, the experience of love is and will be the experience of love. The rest is all theory.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 21, 2008, 04:33:59 PM
Hey,

Thank you Nadine and  Naturewalker..  ;D ;D
I LOVE your comments.. It’s GREAT to see your honest opinions..!!  ;D

Certainly I know what you say Nadine..It’s not shallow or stunted..It’s the emotional experience we LOVE..  ;)
 I love the feeling..I love the experience of LOVE..as we all are..
We all want to give love  and to be loved…obviously..
Laughter is the Best…Washing off all mumbo-jumbo and feel Refresh again..Renewed..for a another day..
Life goes on…Life goes on..as happy as ever..  :) :)

When the going  gets  tough in immediate experience  for some reason, we  try to find other ways to cope up with that..
IMAGO Therapy or EFT or Spiritual Learning or any… comes with that  if  we still want to keep the head up when feel like drowning..
To understand and feel the deeper connection and intimacy..and rekindle the LOVE while
going beyond the everyday conflicts..that wears us down to the rock bottom..
to   various sickness....long term mental and emotional problems..and  even to slow death..  ???  ::)

Then those methods are  NOT just about Theory..but practical Use for the Love of the Life..!!  ;)
Those things becomes LIFE SUPPORT when  it’s really needed to hang on..
By the way all those comes with the emotional experience of those  tough places in life..  :)

It’s GREAT to see you all here and  I wish you all the Very Best ..  :) :)

http://gettingtheloveyouwant.com/  IMAGO THERAPY

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Drad on January 21, 2008, 11:40:54 PM
Love is a choice.

There are many different kinds of love, but they all begin with a conscious choice.

Do I love my neighbor? The Bible says that we should. We begin by a genuine desire to 1st be neighborly, after which there are series of 'encounters' that determine which type of neighbor we have. The sun seems to smile a lot better on our block when we have chosen that it is better to love our neighbor than otherwise. Have you ever noticed?

Do I love the stranger on the street?  The world would be a better place if we chose to love him/her instead of choosing to further denegrate them.  When I place myself in the shoes of the stranger and find that it was a series of choices that put this person in their situation... it makes me wonder...could that be me after a bad series of choices?  Do I  still need and deserve to be loved?!?!?!?!

Do I love that special someone?   The truth is, Lust sets in first. After a series of 'encounters' which prove a similence of compatibility does one finally choose to Love this person.

hmmm

Love is a choice



Once made however, the Love does become REAL and takes on a life of it's own-just like anything else real

(ps; sorry to hear about voodoo's fear of ethnicity.    remember, Love is a many splendored thing) A lot of us need to 'Learn to Love'
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on January 22, 2008, 12:14:22 AM
True love knows not color
Love is a language of the soul
Pastel shades of emotion and joy
Detected by the eyes maybe
But felt by the whole body
Love has no superficial bonds
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 22, 2008, 12:32:51 PM
Sune,
 You are right on the dot! We look for love. Find it. Feel great... Start to expect and sometimes our expectations may not be met. Disappointment. Stronger our love, stronger is the disappointment. Then comes rationalisation... growth, spirituality and the rest of it. I would still say that love is in the look, the occassional touch, the smile, the hug. It is not about lust alone- though that may be part of it. I mean one would not be 'making love' if it was not making love! While lust may be present without the love, it does not define the love and niether is it a prequisite to love.

Drad,
Love may be a choice. Sometimes this choice is simply not conscious. It may just happen! It happened to me- quite naturally and very suddenly. I saw this man and I said to myself- This is it! No bells, no colours, no moon, no stars. It was a feeling of having found myself. It was a funny feeling- I loved being with him and yet would not let myself name it- Just good friends kind of a thing. Our reactions were strong. We would tolerate so much from others but not accept little quirks from each other. Do a lot for each other- simply because that felt good and right. No expectations- no demands. We talked about life and love and fulfillment and commitment. Sometimes we talked for two or three hours, not even realising that so much time had passed. And some of you may find it hard to believe- but there was not even a thought to lust for seven years that we were 'friends'. When we crossed over and became a married couple was almost imperceptible for us. We have been married for last fifteen years now- and we would go through ups and downs- but the love is unquestionable!

Fairy tale? Hardly. May be a cultural overlay, too. There are times that we cannot tolerate what the other is doing but love is never questioned! We will get angry and scream, we will get the steam off and then, back to being a family!

Love thy neighbour is in a different vein... love the stranger on the road is also different.

To me- love is being touched in the passing and still feeling a strange electricity! It is being in a crowded room and yet being able to talk with a mere glance at each other. Our eyes can say and understand atleast as much as our words need to convey. Love is the smile that suddenly lights up your face upon seeing your love or merely thinking about him/ her. Die-hard romantic- I call myself.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 23, 2008, 12:55:19 PM
"To me- love is being touched in the passing and still feeling a strange electricity! It is being in a crowded room and yet being able to talk with a mere glance at each other. Our eyes can say and understand atleast as much as our words need to convey. Love is the smile that suddenly lights up your face upon seeing your love or merely thinking about him/ her. Die-hard romantic- I call myself."


BRAVO!

NL x
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 23, 2008, 12:58:45 PM
Thanks :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 23, 2008, 06:43:09 PM
Quote
To me- love is being touched in the passing and still feeling a strange electricity! It is being in a crowded room and yet being able to talk with a mere glance at each other. Our eyes can say and understand atleast as much as our words need to convey. Love is the smile that suddenly lights up your face upon seeing your love or merely thinking about him/ her. Die-hard romantic- I call myself.
Indeed Bravo!
Love is many things...and it is also not many things. But this, for me, is as close to the truth as I have yet seen. My wife has a smile that the mere thought of can brighten my day. Am I a hopeless romantic? Perhaps not the way one might perceive, nor even the one she may hope me to be, but it is these simplistic things, her smile, a mere glance, a raised eyebrow, or even a curt word, the very feel of her touch upon my skin, or her breath on my neck......these are the very things I long to ever behold from her...After 11 years of marriage and togetherness, after 22 years of knowing each other...these things still are as intoxicating to me now as they were then.
Sune,
Enlightenment, as both you and I know is a wonderful thing, but enlightenment without love....enlightenment without our earthly desires...I often ask if it really makes the enlightenment worthwhile..But you and I both know the rewards that spiritual growth brings. I would not be who I am now without this spiritual side to me, and I would never wish to lose it in my life. However, had I to choose between the love of my life and my spiritual growth.....I would not be a spiritual man.
Thank you once again for your wonderful words. You always seem to have something I am always fortunate to learn from, ready to be written.  :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 24, 2008, 05:56:43 AM
Majere,
As I said earlier- it is nice to hear a man speak like this! I would love to hear my husband speak similarly- but it would do me no good to ask for it! In Hindi, we have a saying- Maang ke liya to kya liya! That means- if you have to ask for it to get it- it is not good enough. But when he had to be away from me for a few months- this was a few years ago- he had only one thing to say! " I miss you more than you can imagine and much more than I thought ever possible." These words will never leave me! And i used to feel it is all one sided! Men will rarely confess to being die-hard romantics! When they do- it takes your breath away.

I understand what you mean by the rewards of spiritual growth... I realise that, too, is important in this life. But if it means giving up my love- or my love for love!- I would much rather stay earthly and 'shallow'. All of us come with our set of situations/ purpose in life. The circumstances will conspire to give us what we are meant to have! If it is to be contentment of love without any doubt- so be it. if it is to be spiritual growth without painful experiences to egg it on- that too will be ours to take. And finally, if our enlightenment has to go through a difficult rocky road- we will have to walk it.

I would never compare one to the other- cannot. Both have their place in our lives.

Personally, I would much rather not have to choose. If I have to, however, I would ALWAYS choose my love- and ALWAYS choose my man! He makes me happy and he makes me sad. He keeps me smiling and he drives me mad. But I cannot live without him.

NW

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: RINKA on January 24, 2008, 07:01:21 AM
hi naturewalker,
thank you for your words of wisdom and i sure cant wait to be married cause it's clear from your saying that both side of love is good. hmmm
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 24, 2008, 10:31:20 AM
Quote
I would never compare one to the other- cannot. Both have their place in our lives
This is, again, a very appropriate statement. There is a place for both, and they do not always meet in the middle. On one hand , spiritual growth serves its purpose, on the other so does love and the earthly desires that cripple and make us all very vulnerable people or lend us strength and give us desire to our purposes in life. Both have great strengths, and great weaknesses. One allows us to see things through  different eyes or perspectives, and the other allows us to see the beauty in sharing a life with another person. Though she may irritate me to no end some days, without the love I have for her, none of our existence with each other would be happening. Without the spritiual aspects of my life I would likely have never known that my love for her could become what it has. I would have been too blind to realise what I have in my life and have never taken the time to consider typing the words I find myself typing even now.
Again, I am spiritual in the sense that I believe in a higher purpose if not a higher power. I am a man of limited faith, and sometimes wonder if my faith is misplaced, but I always hold myself accountable and responsible for the wrongs/rights of my life. Although, without her love, or my love for her, I very much doubt that I would have found this to be the path I would have chosen for my life. So you can see now one mans example of where both aspects; spiritual growth and his love for his wife; have their own purpose. I have the faith to believe I can achieve anything, and the love for someone else to share this life with. Victory may be sweet, and achievement glorious, but without someone with whom to share it all with, there is no greater glory. At least not for me.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 24, 2008, 12:54:32 PM
Majere,
True love cannot cripple. It empowers. In fact, true love gives us a motive or desire to find glory or victory- to add value, so to speak! It may be the child who does it for the pride he sees in his parent's eyes or the lover who experiences it in the gaze of their lover.any glory or victory is in relation to another- hot is hot when compared to the cold, light is light when defined by the absence of darkness.

Love does not hurt either- people do. The more you love, the more you leave yourself open to hurt- true that love may make you vulnerable- but love is not for the faint hearted. It takes a brave person to show love.
Emerson said," our chief want in life is someone who will make us do what we can." Well... love is that someone. Anyone. Mother, father, husband, wife or friend.
Only a lover can know the feeling of having your heart outside your body!

Hi! Rinka!
Sure love is good... it feels great. And it also makes you feel envy, loneliness, sadness, anger much more intensely than you would without it- you donot feel as strongly about or against just another person on the road. Love allows us to live more fully.

Lots of love,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on January 24, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
I did use the term crippled, and to explain its use; it is the vulnerability, not the disability, which someone in love may experience for whatever reason such a vulnerability exists. I do not view myself as being crippled from my love for my family, but I do know that because I love them as I do, new fears never before existing until that love was shared now exist. I hope that sheds some light on my usage of the term crippled. I know that if something were to happen to my chldren or my wife that I would certainly be unable to think purely, or coherently at first in order to react to whatever situation that may be. I can hope otherwise if something were to happen, but may hesitate in reaction to what that may be. I have seen this happen before when one of my children were injured, or threatened...My reactions were not instincual as much as they were led by emotion. I faltered or became reluctant to react, fearing for the worst. Had it been a threat or danger to myself, I would simply have reacted, without hesitence. In retrospect, perhaps I do view myself at a disadvantage due to this, but by no means a disadvatage I would change. That which we survive makes us stronger people for our experiences.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 24, 2008, 10:57:23 PM
I totally and unhesitatingly agree.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 28, 2008, 05:09:44 PM
What is love…?

 What is love? It is one of the most difficult questions for the mankind. Centuries have passed by, relationships have bloomed and so has love. But no one can give the proper definition of love. To some “Love is friendship set on fire” for others “Maybe love is like luck. You have to go all the way to find it”. No matter how you define it or feel it or experience it, love is the eternal truth in the history of mankind and all in this universes. 

This one’s too cute…

A group of professional people posed this question to a group of 4 to 8 year-olds, “What does love mean?”
The answers they got were broader and deeper than anyone could have imagined. See what you think:

“When my grandmother got arthritis, she shouldn’t bend over and paint her toenails anymore. So my grandfather does it for her all the time, even when his hands got arthritis too. That’s love.”
Rebecca - age 8

When someone loves you, the way they say your name is different. You just know that your name is safe in their mouth.”
Billy- age 4

“Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other.”
Karl - age 5

“Love is when you go out to eat and give somebody most of your French fries without making them give you any of theirs.”
Chrissy - age 6

“Love is what makes you smile when you’re tired.”
Terri - age 4

“Love is when my mommy makes coffee for my daddy and she takes a sip before giving it to him, to make sure the taste is OK.”
Danny - age 7

“Love is when you kiss all the time. Then when you get tired of kissing, you still want to be together and you talk more. My Mommy and Daddy are like that. They look gross when they kiss”
Emily - age 8

“Love is what’s in the room with you at Christmas if you stop opening presents and listen.”
Bobby - age 7 (Wow!)

“If you want to learn to love better, you should start with a friend who you hate,”
Nikka - age 6
(we need a few million more Nikka’s on this planet)

“Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt, then he wears it every day.”
Noelle - age 7

“Love is like a little old woman and a lit tle old man who are still friends even after they know each other so well.”
Tommy - age 6

“During my piano recital, I was on a stage and I was scared. I looked at all the people watching me and saw my daddy waving and smiling. He was the only one doing that. I wasn’t scared anymore.”
Cindy - age 8

“My mommy loves me more than anybody. You don’t see anyone else kissing me to sleep at night.”
Clare - age 6

“Love is when Mommy gives Daddy the best piece of chicken.”
Elaine-age 5

“Love is when Mommy sees Daddy smelly and sweaty and still says he is handsomer than Robert Redford.”
Chris - age 7

“Love is when your puppy licks your face even after you left him alone all day.”
Mary Ann - age 4

“I know my older sister loves me because she gives me all her old clothes and has to go out and buy new ones.” Lauren - age 4

“When you love somebody, your eyelashes go up and down and little stars come out of you.” (what an image) Karen - age 7

“Love is when Mommy sees Daddy on the toilet and she doesn’t think it’s gross.”
Mark - age 6

“You really shouldn’t say ‘I love you’ unless you mean it. But if you mean it, you should say it a lot. People forget.”
Jessica - age 8

And the final one —
 Author and lecturer Leo Buscaglia once talked about a contest he was asked to judge. The purpose of the contest was to find the most caring child.

The winner was a four year old child whose next door neighbor was an elderly gentleman who had recently lost his wife.
Upon seeing the man cry, the little boy went into the old gentleman’s yard, climbed onto his lap, and just sat there. When his Mother asked what he had said to the neighbor, the little boy said, “Nothing, I just helped him cry.”

Read more here..
http://blog.badangel.org.uk/?p=547


http://www.thelovemovie.com/


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Frogg on January 28, 2008, 05:15:26 PM
Well now I'm crying!!!

We should listen to little kids more, they're still innocent.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 28, 2008, 05:20:25 PM
Exactly!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on January 29, 2008, 01:38:53 PM
That is among the purest and most unselfish form of love you will see. A child will feel elation and pain- will show it exactly as he feels it. And will not manipulate. I refuse to accept the common refrain among adults that children atre extremely manipulative. They are pure, simple creatures who donot know how to hide anything and do not even want to. When they want to get something they ask for it. When they want to give something they donot even bother to ask- they just give. Have you been greeted by a child who comes up stealthily behind you just to give you a big squeezy hug and tell you how much he loves you? I have. My son will come so silently that he can startle me. But he always manages to give me AND get from me the hug that lights up both our faces with a sunshine smile!

Be with your children more time and more often. You need it! All of us need it! If we were to die, our office/ place of work would replace us in a matter of days. Our children will never be able to replace us in their lives. Sometimes the perspective that we use to watch our life pass us by needs to be changed. It will serve us well to treat the truly important things in life as truly important and be able to discern them from the trivial ones.

Sune, I love this one!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 29, 2008, 06:55:14 PM
That is among the purest and most unselfish form of love you will see.
Be with your children more time and more often. You need it! All of us need it!
Sune, I love this one!

I love that one too..Thanks..!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 29, 2008, 11:51:39 PM
LOVE from the otherside!!

To Those I Love and Those Who Love Me

(Author Unknown)
   http://www.inlovingmemoryonline.com/


When I am gone, release me, let me go,
I have so many things to see and do,
You mustn't tie yourself to me with tears.
Be happy that we had so many years.

read the rest at:
http://www.inlovingmemoryonline.com/
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 01:08:48 AM
Speaking from emotional  life experience; 
speaking the inner truth from heart....
You've  really grasped the whole TRUTH of Love and Fear..in this poem Big T..

I understand clearly where you've been to experience this  "real face of Fear" vs. "real Love"..
Learning from that place is like "No way turning back.." isn't it?
Thank you so much for sharing this poem..
How about the other?
I'd love to read..!   :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 31, 2008, 01:33:48 AM
There are a couple of 'related' poems already on MWC ... see links below.

As for the others, maybe I'll pm them to you.


www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=5253.0

www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=4281.0

www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=4612.0
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 01:37:04 AM
A BIG THANK YOU BIG T..TRULY..
I'M READING NOW.. 
GOOD NIGHT.. :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 31, 2008, 05:24:54 PM
Sune, Dear,

We really have to be careful about posting complete works that the person posting did not originate. Just because the author "isn't know," doesn't mean that the copyright isn't held by someone who does know who the author is.

I know this is tedious. However, if writers are not vanguards of rights, who will be?

Please edit your post. Leave the first bit of it with a link to find the entire work. I'm sure it must be out there somewhere on the world wide web.

Even if you are absolutely certain this is in the public domain, posting a link to it is much better example to set.

Thanks for being understanding and editing post haste.

Sheesh, I have hardly been on MWC for a week and I come back acting like a moderator. (soorrreeeee)


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on January 31, 2008, 05:45:37 PM
Every time I re-read this thread, my confirmed favorite of MWC, I get teary. I'm going to make sure my boys read this. You "guys" are fantastic people. I'm so glad to have our worlds come together in this place. You inspire, you share, you make me cry and laugh. And, most of all, I want to say, "I love you."

Mind you, it might not be 'zactly like I love my husband or my boys, but there is a connection that I can only name as love.

Big surprise, I'm a touchy-feely person who is very open about my feelings. I try to ease back because I know it makes people uncomfortable, even though below the surface it also touches them nicely. And, boy does it bring it's share of questions and criticism from observers.

When I was barely six years old my father died. It was one of those father/daughter admiration relationships. I knew he was in the hospital, but in those days children weren't told things like, "Daddy is not coming home." Certainly, no one said anything about anyone dying. So, when he did die suddenly, (as it seemed to me) I was to become keenly aware that each contact I have with a person might be our last. Thus, I celebrate our friendship by openly saying I love them.

I'd think after all these years, I'd become immune to the hurtful comments about saying, "I love you," so freely. If we can only love one person or love only one way, then I didn't get the memo. Why this hurts me, I do not know. Maybe it doesn't matter why.

The other night I watched the Newport Beach Jazz Festival (California, USA) and Mister B.B. King ended his set telling the audience he loves them. I thought, "Ah, that is how I say it," in my emails, my phone conversations, in person (of course), in my newsletter, and to the people on my newsletter mailing list, I say it in a voice message.

I feel better now. Maybe less concerned about being a threat by being myself. So, here goes one more time, "I love you guys."

Opps! This isn't where I thought I'd go when I began this post.


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on January 31, 2008, 06:01:55 PM
Your post is so inspiring, and I'm sure a lot of people will get a wealth of knowledge from. it. It's okay to be yourself, trying to be someone else would take a lot of time and energy.  I'm like you, I love to hug people it makes me feel good, and I in turn return them big time.

I have found that as I get older that those signs of caring mean a lot to me.  Now when i close a conversation on the telephone with my friends i always say "Love You" and mean it.  As you say it isn't the same as the love I had for my husband, but close to being the love of my children and grandchildren, all my friends I've had for fifty or more years and they have moved away, but I still feel their caring by those three little words "I Love You".  Once again I'm thankful for all my MWC friends and i do love you all.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on January 31, 2008, 06:05:19 PM
I have so much I want to say on this thread - and I just can't find the words.

Just to say ... yes.

That's enough.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 08:12:21 PM
You made me cry..Big T....
I felt the pain and grief you went through with your words..
I'm really sorry Big T , if I make you go through those again....
In fact I feel you've beaten the Devil/ Little mind-set and  found LOVE to see beyond that pain and accept
mum's or Dad's Love is there always as it is..You Never lost them.....NEVER..
No one or Nothing can take it from you..

Oh Dear.."Seperation" from loving parents, loved ones....when  we feel like they have vanished..disappeared into thin air..without a trace..
That's the hardest experience even though we think we are adults..
There's a CHILD within each and every one of us that feel hurt by all those happenings outside us.....
and trying to keep securely  what we've got here for the FEAR of losing..once again..
Ouch, it hurts....
I felt as if i lost in this world when my dad died 15 yrs back..He was my Best friend and Best Guide and the Biggest part of ME..in my world..
I was there in his final moments....but couldn't even remember him without crying ..
till I learned all those..**** things  to accept finally that I've NEVER LOST him..
Finally i found PEACE/Freedom  within myself..to Accept what i thought lost, has never been lost....
Love never dies...spirit/Life force never dies..

I can imagine how hard it was for a 6 yr. old.. NADINE..!!
You've gone through a hell lot of burning feelings to cope with that emotional hurt....
Though we try to deny or suppress or cover those with other routines or anything the internal wound hurts.....
It needs Healing once and for all.... LOVE HEALS..!!

I'll search for the links as you said for those documents i got from the internet..Sorry for the trouble, Nadine!

I LOVE you all!!
A Big Hug to you all !!  :-* :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 31, 2008, 08:19:03 PM
You made me cry..Big T....

Sorry sune!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 08:32:33 PM
Don't mention it pl. Big T, .. ..It's alright..I'm ok..
I learned to bounce back somehow..
I'm sorry for reminding You all those painful experiences..
Anyway we keep going..aren't we??
Glad to see you here today..!!  :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on January 31, 2008, 08:35:40 PM
There are a couple of 'related' poems already on MWC ... see links below.

As for the others, maybe I'll pm them to you.


www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=5253.0

www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=4281.0

www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=4612.0

Awesome work T! Obviously inspired... :'(
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 08:48:10 PM
Awesome work T! Obviously inspired... :'(

Hey,
There you are CJ..Glad to see you!!
Exactly..Awesome work from Big T....Oh, dear....
Hope you have a good day here CJ.. :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 31, 2008, 09:00:13 PM
Thanks guys, now stop it ... I'm blushing ...  :-[
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 09:03:20 PM
 WHAT??
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on January 31, 2008, 09:20:13 PM
 :D
Thanks guys, now stop it ... I'm blushing ...  :-[
Yellow orange now?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 31, 2008, 09:58:46 PM
You know what CJ, it's peculiar ... I pulled some stuff off my hard drive yesterday as I intended to pass it over to sune ... and she guessed right ... there was definitely some wet stuff on my face as I re-read them ... and I stopped. I continued the exercise this morning ... how do you hide tears from 6 office colleagues?

You would think that after a passage of time one would become 'hardened' ... accepting the facts ... but I'll tell you mate ... it ain't that easy.

See that sune woman ... she's got a lot to answer for ...  ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 10:24:44 PM
I'm really SORRY Big T...

I know...It's the same for me.."Hardened..or  Accepted.." but alas..Tears again....

It's like being a Human..Human emotional pattern..Preset program..
We just accept it's OK to cry when feel like so..actually we have no option it seems.
...like it or not..wet stuff is there..just taking its toll....

We just have to go with the flow, allow it's time and settle down or bounce back again..
Oh, well...Hope you are alright and doing GREAT now!!!!   :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on January 31, 2008, 10:32:35 PM
I always contend that tears are like rain. They cleans our souls and also help us grow. Maybe we are a little more like spring after a good rain...  ;)

CJ
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on January 31, 2008, 10:37:25 PM
sune ...
Apologies not needed!

It's like being a Human

Now you've really made me laugh ... out loud ... and I'm getting puzzled looks from 6 faces  :D

I have always thought I WAS human ...

Tks CJ ...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on January 31, 2008, 11:42:58 PM
Oh, Thank God....Now you are laughing..lol..  ;D

Yeah, You are Human..We are Human.....  ;D ;D ;D
So it's OK to cry..Ok to make mistakes..Ok to be a normal human..
Though after all those experiences we thought we've "Hardened or Fully accepted the facts or any."

Still we've learned to bounce back too..
Refreshed, Renewed after a good cleansing  RAIN....THANKS CJ..You are so right on that..!!
Hope you both doing GREAT..!!  :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CaddyJ on February 01, 2008, 12:27:36 AM
Oh yes... I'm sprouting...  :D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 01, 2008, 12:35:34 AM
Good for you!!..It's SUNNY again..  ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on February 01, 2008, 10:00:53 AM
I have always worn my emotions on my sleeves. Call me sentimental. I never fault my sons from crying, whether it be from pain or sadness. I myself am the sappy man that can shed tears from a song, a movie scene, even a fond, or not so fond memory. It's our emotions that help to forge our personalities. Without these aspects of life, would we be who we are, even who we pretend to be, or not be?  think not.
This is a great crowd with great people. Your honesty with each other, as well as yourselves is very inspiring. Iam grateful fo knowing each and ever of you.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 01, 2008, 12:22:39 PM
It seems that a lot happened here while I was away!

Tears are ok. SO are smiles and hugs. These are all the things that make us more human! I, too, am a sentimental fool! I donot mind showing it. Usually I would only show it to me immediate family amd my close friends. But you something? Unless you show someone just how much they mean to you, they just might not get close enough!

I understand what you say Nadine. I also treat each day in a way that should not leave any regrets. I tell my son and my daughter eachday- several times just how much I love them. We wave a 'I love you' bye- the sign language with the thumb, the index and the little finger out, the middle and the ring finger folded! We hug and kiss even on the phone. "Ummmmmmmm" with all the effort it takes to hug well. If there is one thing my kids are damn sure about- it is just how much their mother loves them.

As for my husband, he is the silent kind of person who would not say it out loud... not very often. I have learnt to hear it from his eyes. I tell him- that is me. I ask him to say it, too- if I am getting particularly sentimental. We call it 'Menti- Sental' in our lingo! But it is good to be here and now. I am grateful to God above or whereever He chooses to be- for such a lovely life. Touch wood! No that is not superstition.

My friends know that they can always talk to me without any guilt of when they last called or met. Life is short. Too short to be wasted in getting angry or finding reasons not to be loving. Love is a natural outcome of a satisfied soul.

I love you all.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sugy on February 05, 2008, 02:15:38 AM
Hi all,
As usual I have been missing this place again. What happens with my life, i do not know, but somehow i am not able to be regular here. Yet, everytime i come here, i make sure to read this thread. And everytime i learn something from your wise words. Yes, the love i feel here is unique and great. So many people from around the world talk about one word 'LOVE'. This is the only word that can bind the world and i am so glad so many people give it away so freely here. I have always been the 'love all' kind and i always feel it is okay to have different opinions, ideas or values, but nothing is so important that it should end in a fight that stops two or more people from talking to each other. It is difficult to love a person who has hurt you, but i feel liberated only when i let go off the bitter feelings. Be it anyone, only with conscious effort to love, we can succeed to live life to the full, with no hard feelings and that is the only way to feel light.

Love u all.

Keep writing more about love. we all need it, not just from our relatives or close ones, but from everyone we meet or know.

Sugy
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 05, 2008, 06:37:31 AM
Sugy! Hi! Long time... no see?

You are right this place is like a haven and gives quite freely and very maturely. This is one of the rare groups  where interaction is largely positive. I have hardly ever ( I did once! :-X) encountered harshness here. And the spontaneous uprisisng rallying around me then was immensely gratifying.  :-* :-*
It is difficult to love someone who has hurt you, true. But hurt is the feeling we choose to accept. Anger, hurt- all of them. I do, too. You may be able to get over them- a sign of maturity. Sometimes, it is simply better to just let it sit on the back burner and cook. Then, you may just end up eating a good dish!  ;)
We all need it; not just from our relatives or close ones, but from everyone we meet or know. Very true. Infact, the relatives and close ones will come around to giving us love they feel any way. More we can expand this circle of 'anyway' more love we can surround ourselves with.
Some people say" I love you" and donot even think what they mean. Let alone know. Some people live love each and every moment and cannot get enough of saying it again and again to their loved ones. Those that love and say it- and those that love and don't say it- both are choosing a certain way of living. When you let your loved one know just how much they mean to you, you make yourself AND your loved one happy. When you do not say it- you deprive the loved one of a very basic pleasure. Love goes much deeper than that. Love is being able to be happy in your loved one's pleasure.
Sugy... come back every now and then. I hope you find the love and peace here AND around you where-ever you go!  :-*
Lots of love
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on February 09, 2008, 02:30:34 AM
Over a year ago, there was a thread about religious beliefs. I really held my breath on that one. Americans can be so pushy with their (whoops! Our) single minded thoughts regarding religion. What the thread yielded, rather than my fears, was an open discussion of religious beliefs and an extraordinary acceptance and tolerance for beliefs in direct opposition or conflict with each other.

For me, it wasn't so much what anyone said about religion, but how everyone treated each other respectfully. All I can say again is what a marvel MWC is.

It has pained me to not be able to get on MWC lately. Big T, I don't know how you managed those months you were away.

There are many forms of love. MWC is one of them. IMO.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on February 09, 2008, 12:28:34 PM
Well said Nadine.

Carrie x
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 09, 2008, 01:48:48 PM
Nadine,
I have missed you here. I used to look forward to your posts. Especially on this thread. I have not seen the one on religion you mention. It is, however, not just Americans who can be so rigid.
This is a place that calls out... beckons... I cannot seem to get by without it an any given day!
Love,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on February 09, 2008, 02:43:38 PM
Back to the subject - is there true love for real? 

Don't you think above all other things that define humanity, love is the most crucial?

But doesn't love give one the power to hurt, too? 

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 10, 2008, 03:52:19 AM
Carrie!,
Back to the subject... Among the things that actually make the human experience human are love, language and also the other emotions. Loving deeply gives us the strength and the courage to withstand the good and the bad experiences with equal equanimity. That is- if loving strongly and equanimity can indeed go together. Love- in any form- familial, filial, spousal, parental- any of the many others that I am not naming here- makes us feel strongly. If you are a lover you would not even contemplate hurting the one one you love. If you are the one loved and do not feel or reciprocate, you are likely to be the source of hurt. So love may give us the capacity to FEEL more hurt than we would without it- but it does not give us the capacity TO hurt the one we love.
In any relationship- one may love more or less than the other. That may become the reason why one partner mey be hurt and the other may be hurting.
Love gives one capacity to BE hurt. Small words with large meanings.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 10, 2008, 05:21:30 PM
Hey, Naturewalker and all,  :) :)

Just for clearing the air..Dear..  ;D

I'm really sorry to hear that you felt like being in a Battle ground here in this thread..
After all isn't this about a ""OPEN  Discussion Forum of "anonymous strangers" coming together
to discuss anything in the mind and  read some different perspectives of the subjects other than
their own views and experiences..??  ;)

As I see, "Everyone has their own views and Writing styles but Noone has to Accept or Consider anything
that they are not resonate with.. All are Free to accept what they want to believe or continue as they want..in their minds..   
Who can put limits on that..?   ;)
Why do we Victimize ourselves for somebody elses ideas or views??  :o

We can choose to ACCEPT or CONSIDER to have a look  or REFUSE completely and do what we want..Can't we??  ::)
As I see, it is Everyones Right to choose whatever they want to believe or keep in their minds
regardless of million views from others.. As we are the Michelangelo of our own lives..and life dramas..  ;D ;D

For me the biggest Lesson I've ever experienced in this life is " Learning to Love the Self..Learning to Know the self.."   ::)

"When I'm at Peace and in Love with myself, I'm at Peace and love with others..and the world. generally....
Kind of ectasy of BEING with patience, understanding,forbearance, forgiveness..etc for the Self and others and everything...."

When I hated myself unconsciously....I was always in conflict with  myself, others and the world.....
Everything and everyone contributed to the agony..that's how it felt..afterall..

When one's own CUP is Full of love energy and overflowing..there's so much to GIVE without even expecting or
demanding or fighting to RECEIVE from others..

Law of Attraction is like law of gravity.."Like attracts like.."
Whatever we put forward as THOUGHTS and FEELINGS attract the same sort of ENERGY continuously on momentary basis..

Thoughts and feelings of envy, jealousy, irritation,resentment,sadness, loneliness, despair....
create more of those in everyday experiences proving and convincing that what we  indulge on momentary basis..  ???

I found a very interesting simple reading from a Psychologist speaking from psychological point of view..displaying
ideas from the Greatest Psychologists from the history of mankind..about different forms of LOVE..Common love, Romantic love, True love..etc..
It's so interesting, eye opening and very informative from the view of psychology..
Read more here..

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm

Hope you all enjoy the reading here..  :) :)
By the way the movie..SECRET is discussing the same in visual form..

http://www.thesecret.tv/


I love you all..[No, not as romantic love anyhow.. ] ;D ;D ;D
A Big hug to you all !!!

sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 10, 2008, 10:56:12 PM
Hi! Sune
No- it is not this thread we are talking about as being a battle field! Where did that idea come up?? ???

This thread is all about love and loving. You seem to read very widely and have a lot to offer.  :) :)

This forum AND this thread provide a platform to express and accept OR refuse to accept any one'e point of view. The fact it is done so openly and so maturely is what makes this forum particularly addicting!!! ;)

Have a great day!

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on February 11, 2008, 06:18:51 AM
Naturewalker,

I'm never far away...

Sometimes life gets in the way. No, actually, it was work and I've let my boss think I don't have a life outside our current pet project. Whoops!

Several things you've written lately about the behavior of love really struck me.

"Some people live love each and every moment and cannot get enough of saying it again and again to their loved ones. Those that love and say it- and those that love and don't say it- both are choosing a certain way of living. When you let your loved one know just how much they mean to you, you make yourself AND your loved one happy. When you do not say it- you deprive the loved one of a very basic pleasure. Love goes much deeper than that. Love is being able to be happy in your loved one's pleasure."

"So love may give us the capacity to FEEL more hurt than we would without it- but it does not give us the capacity TO hurt the one we love."

Just thought I'd mention these gave me pause. I'm not going to comment beyond saying thank you for writing these. It really helps me sort something.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 11, 2008, 11:45:13 AM
Nadine!
I am speaking from experience. My husband is the silent type. I have to read it in his eyes. Often I have joked with him about the apparent lack of emotion in our interactions. I compare it to coke without fizz- for the want of more intoxicating experience! We are both tea-totallers and non-smokers.
Then, I simply withdrew. There if you need me types but absent if you donot ask for me. I filled my time and space with things to do and , given my nature, I do what I do with passion and total dedication. I tried each of the five love languages- subtly. Guess what?! My strong silent man has changed- a little- but changed. He has started telling me I matter. He has started asking me to listen to music with him, and simply sit and have coffee together.
I used to feel hurt at his not needing me or wanting me. Here I am not talking only about one kind of love. By simply withdrawing from the scene, I feel, I have taken on the role of an observer as well as being the main player in this drama of my life.
One thing I am verrrrrrry sure about- I love him too much to simply let go without trying. I do. I try to communicate in a way he can understand. Sometimes he does. Sometimes he doesn't. That, too is fine.
It is the moments of togetherness that I have begun to cherish. While it feels good to be loved- it feels good to love, too.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 11, 2008, 04:25:17 PM
Hi,Dear  Naturewalker, :) :)

I like to ask a question if you don't mind..Do not take it personally....
This is a Ultimate Universal Question for anyone ready to learn from own experiences of life..
One way or the other we come to a point in life to ASK this question from the SELF..  ???

Do you Love yourself honestly??
Do you love the person you see in the mirror??
Do you love the person named NW with all ups and downs and highs and lows and all mistakes and acheivements??
Do you love the company of yourself..being with yourself..taking time for yourself....?
Do you treat gently yourself without harsh judgements whatsoever...??
DO YOU LOVE YOURSELF??

DO YOU?? 

Just listen to the answers come to you without RESISTING or FIGHTING or DENYING or
RUNNING AWAY from SELF filling your time and space with  a TO-DO list........ [I did that too sometime ago.. ] ;D ;D



Opening the mind to receive answers from Greater self/Inner self is the ultimate practise to lifes' problems and dilemmas..
You don't have to give any answers here....but just ASK YOURSELF for answers with brutal honesty..
See how this experiment work for you!!   ;)

Love to you all!!
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on February 11, 2008, 09:33:53 PM
Very good questions, Sune. Thanks for posting them.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 12, 2008, 03:20:42 AM
Dear Sune and Nadine,
Though the questions are good, they begin pointing you in the same direction as we had earlier encountered.
To answer you honestly- Yes I do love the person I see in the mirror. I also recognise a few flaws and realise my personal growth is in working on them. These could be as insignificant as being a little overweight or as deep as wanting 'something more' from life. ;)
Till we are alive- we must continue to learn and grow.
I am a person- as many others I know, who have to and LOVE to do things for their family. This could mean children, parents and even husband. I am verrrrry happy doing that. Since I love spending time with myself- I make that time at the end of the day when I read and write.
I am lucky to have had a reasonably well-rounded life. It has its own ups and downs- all that I fondly remember. Some of them with aresonable degree of pride. :)
And no, I am not running away from anyone- including myself! ;)
I suggested taking on a role of a spectator to really observe where we are off to. In that sense detachment works better than trying to force things.
Have a great day- full of what you love.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on February 12, 2008, 01:20:34 PM
My heart doesn't need the questions, it knows the answers before they're asked. My head is the problem. Cathy is a great one to point out when I'm over thinking. (Love ya, Cathy).

To some degree, I don't want to analyze love too much. What I think it is today, I might think differently tomorrow. All I know for certain is that I do believe there is true love, for real.

"...do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love..."

Max Ehrnmann (copyright 1952)
http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 12, 2008, 02:51:05 PM
Thanks Nadine!
For everything. ;)
Mostly  ;)  for saying exactly the right thing in the minimum possible words.  :) :)
Love,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 12, 2008, 06:07:32 PM
My heart doesn't need the questions, it knows the answers before they're asked. My head is the problem.
Nadine

Exactly..Well said Nadine..  :)
Heart does not need any questions or clarifications or life-lessons for growth or anything....
as it knows EVERYTHING all times....
So the best thing is  listen to the gentle voice of Heart at all times for anything....of course..

But as you said HEAD is the problem..this is about the MIND..The little human mind..  ???
Mind jumps out at anything with its' own strong convictions....

Learning to love the self is ...learning to trust and listen to the Heart  of course....

Naturewalker,   :)
May be you do not want to go into the deeper quest at this time..but ponder that question
if you want to find answers for the inner dilemma and  for "wanting something more from life" as you said....

We are like Mirrors to each other...........Outer is a reflection of Inner..
If we do not love us dearly, then who else will Dear??
Society or culture taught us to take care of everthing but hardly our ownselves..
In that SECRET movie and What the bleep do we know" movie, they discuss  this same question.....
After all, it's an age-old question through the history of mankind..

Finally its' all come to conscious choices of the unfolding life drama on daily basis..

Have a Great Day!!  ;D ;D

http://www.content-articles.com/articles/72899/1/Learn-To-Love-Yourself-First/Page1.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on February 13, 2008, 04:24:05 AM
Sune,
"We are all aware of our personal flaws, and trust me, we all have them, but once we learn to accept the ones that can’t be changed as a part of who we are and make an effort to change what we want to change, only then will we see that others will accept us too."
Exactly what I was trying to convey. This come from the link you sent Sune. Intersting that we are saying the same thing... and yet are more intent in being heard than listening.
 Sometimes, we should be able to let life happen without having to analyse every moment. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Love is one of those things. It allows us to be in the moment- to proactively work for joy- whether our own or someone else's.
Lots of love,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 13, 2008, 03:47:41 PM
Exactly...Well said..Naturewalker..  :) :)
We say the same thing but funnily.. from different view points..

Let it happen..sit back..relax and enjoy the ride..in happy times..or good times..
Grieve or cry for a while if you must..in unhappy or sad times...and then bounce back to peaceful state again
while learning from the experience and then letting it GO.....
The Best Guide and the Best Friend is our ownself/ Greater Self..at all times...It's only listening to the Heart..not the HEAD..!!
THANK YOU NW and all ,for this interesting wild ride!!  ;D  ;D

Lots of love
Sune

http://www.thedreammovie.com/

www.dashpoemmovie.com

http://positivepause.com/index.html

http://www.seamless-web.net/zenwisdom.htm

http://www.seamless-web.net/truelove.htm

http://www.seamless-web.net/mirrors.htm

http://www.seamless-web.net/meetyourself.htm

http://www.seamless-web.net/abundance.htm

http://www.seamless-web.net/shine.htm
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 14, 2008, 04:49:11 PM



FORGIVENESS is a Gift You Give Yourself
 

It's time to let go of old, past hurts...

http://www.seamless-web.net/forgiveness.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

    Have you ever felt that someone did something to you, something that hurt you so badly you could never forgive them?  Of course you have!   There isn’t a single person on this planet who hasn’t had such an experience; many times over, in fact.  The problem is that holding on to all that old pain keeps you stuck in the past.  It can even create physical illnesses in your body, such as cancer or a heart attack. 

       So what can we do?  How do we get rid of that old pain?  The answer is simple—through the power of forgiveness.     Now, you may wonder, “How can I ever forgive what they did to me?”  One thing that can inspire you to try, is realizing that holding on to all that old stuff doesn’t hurt anyone but you.  The person who “hurt” you probably doesn’t even know how you feel!  So you’re not punishing them; you’re punishing yourself.

       Another reason to forgive is because what you send out comes back to you.  We all have made mistakes, and done things that hurt other people.  And yet, every one of us is doing the very best we can with the knowledge, information, and experience that we have.  It’s true for you, and it’s true for “them,” too.  If they could have done better, they would have.

       Forgiveness doesn’t mean approving of poor behavior, of course.  It just means seeing things in the right perspective, in order to set yourself free.  A Course in Miracles says that we see other peoples’ errors as sins, and our own errors as mistakes.  Now think about that, and honestly apply it to the other person who “hurt” you.  Look at the situation from their point of view.  Does it look the same?  And now look at the situation from the point of view of someone totally uninvolved.  Does this present yet another perspective?   

       Now let’s turn to our “magic mirrors.”  (Any mirror will do, since the “magic” is really in you.)  All of our relationships are mirrors.  We attract relationships that will teach us what we need to learn about ourselves.

       Sit quietly, look into your magic mirror and ask yourself, “What was I trying to learn by attracting this relationship?”  Look deeply into your own eyes, and let the answers come.  All the answers you will ever need are inside you now.  If you find that you habitually attract hurtful relationships in your life, look for the pattern, so you can learn that lesson.  Write down whatever answers come into your mind.  Do not judge, and do not criticize yourself.  This is not about blame, it is about freedom.

       Unless you learn the lesson this relationship is teaching you, I will guarantee you that this same character will reappear in your life, over and over again, until you do.  They may look different, but you will know, “Here they come again.”

       So look into your mirror and affirm, “I am willing to release the need to be unhappy,” and “I deserve to be happy and fulfilled.”  And then say to the person you want to forgive, “I forgive you for not being the way I wanted you to be.  I forgive you, and I set you free.”

       If you just can’t bring yourself to say this to the person, then sit down first, and write them an angry letter.  Don’t hold anything back!  Let it all out, tell them exactly what is on your mind.  And when you have finished, tear it up, and burn it in a safe place, saying, “I forgive you for not being the way I wanted you to be.” 

       Repeat this exercise over and over, until you are able to learn the lesson and let go of the hurt.  Let the Universe know that you are willing to be released from the prison of the past.  By releasing the past, we become open to the wonderful new experiences that await us.  Don’t delay your good!  Do it now.

     Affirmation:  “I forgive, and I set myself free.”


Mindy L.Hitchcock is a practicing attorney, and a metaphysical author, lecturer, and workshop facilitator.  She is also the webmaster for Mindy Hitchcock’s Love Yourself, Heal Your Life Workshops and LADY4JUSTICE© PLLC (http://www.lady4justice.com).  You can contact Mindy, or ask to be placed on her Love Yourself mailing list, by e-mailing her at mlhitchcock@seamless-web.net.

http://www.seamless-web.net/forgiveness.htm
___________________________________________________________

 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on February 14, 2008, 07:08:03 PM
My heart doesn't need the questions, it knows the answers before they're asked. My head is the problem. Nadine

Heart does not need any questions or clarifications or life-lessons for growth or anything....
as it knows EVERYTHING all times....
So the best thing is  listen to the gentle voice of Heart at all times for anything....of course..

But as you said HEAD is the problem..this is about the MIND..The little human mind..  ???
Mind jumps out at anything with its' own strong convictions....


My input to this was 'posted' way back in 2006 ... go take a peep  ;)

www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=4783.0
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 14, 2008, 07:24:14 PM
Hello, Big T,  ;D ;D
welcome back!!
Glad to see you here again..How was your holidays..?
Think  you had a lovely time...
Hey, i had a look on your post..
you wrote about the  Heart  and mind..interesting poem..!!
Do you still think there's a Battle between the two and if so who wins most of the time??   ;) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on February 14, 2008, 07:38:50 PM
Hi sune,
Holiday was really great, got lots of things done including one I never intended ... bought another house  ???

Methinks there will always be a 'battle'  ;D

I don't really care which one wins as long as I can see Noy smiling. Whatever love is to the individual it has to be able to make you happy ... go on, now ask me to define happy ...  ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 14, 2008, 07:54:23 PM
Heheheeeeeeeeeeee... ;D ;D ;D

Nay, I better stop asking you to define HAPPY.. ;D ;D ;D

I see the little human mind like a little mischevious child, is always in a conflict, battle or temper tantrum..[Ego mind]

But Heart is like the matured, loving, nurturing parent.....[Whole mind]

It overlooks  the battle and tantrums giving guidance gently when loud, impatient or aggressive mental noises subsided..  ;) :)


Good  for you!! Do you like that new house?? Noy like that place too??  :)
What else you did there? Seems like you had a GREAT time!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on February 15, 2008, 09:23:57 PM
The new house is ok ... it's just across the road from our other one so we'll never live in it ... more of an investment ... Anyone want holiday accommodation in Thailand???  :D

We had a great time catching up with the family in the village, held a graduation party for 2 family members, the first time anyone from the family has progressed all the way through University ... very heart warming occasion ... generally a good time all round.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 16, 2008, 11:35:11 PM
Congratulations for your 2 family members who've progressed to enter to the University!!
That's a big occasion..heart warming..certainly..
Holiday in Thailand....Hmmmmmmmmm....something to think about..!!   ::)
I'll let you know when i'm ready!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on February 18, 2008, 02:19:59 AM
There are some who attribute it to a chemical triggering in the brain. (Supported by the power and proliferation of the puppy-love days)
'Lots of descriptions written to define it for sure.
I believe it has a lot to do with something in the air ... (other than particulate matter).
Some people can tell us that they have never fallen but would give mental ascent to the principle of it.
For my money it's in the "Spiritual" realm and those with a open path to the heart. Some it seems, know that for THEM the love they have is real but naturally that the process of melding between couples is an ongoing maintenance program.
Like weeding your garden. Lot's of flowers but always a little digging and aerating is needed.
If that were not so, books like "How to Keep Your Marriage Alive" would be hard to find.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 19, 2008, 09:16:10 PM
LOVE

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love


The word love has many different meanings in English, from something that gives a little pleasure ("I loved that meal") to something one would die for (ideals, family)...


(Dang, I hate to keep doing this, but you simply can't quote copyrighted material. A line and the link is okay. Sorry for the moderator edit here. Nadine)
 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 20, 2008, 05:07:07 PM
Enjoy the short movies that touches the Heart!!

[Sounds on pl.]


http://www.makeadifferencemovie.com/movieteacher/full/

http://www.kumbayamovie.com/

http://www.youarelovemovie.com/
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on February 20, 2008, 06:17:37 PM
You are right these movies brought tears to my eyes.  A great lesson taught.  Thanks sune for a wonderful insight.  True love does reign.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 20, 2008, 06:36:42 PM
Thanks  ALLYROSE..
Those  brought tears to my eyes too ...
Love language touches the heart..isn't it?  :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on February 26, 2008, 04:58:10 PM
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/001213.html



Robert G. Ingersoll


Love is the only bow on life's dark cloud.
It is the Morning and the Evening Star...


(Beautiful poem. Still I have to edit the post because we cannot quote copyrighted material. Sorry. Click through on the link above. Nadine)


http://www.wisdomquotes.com/001213.html

http://www.peacetodaymovie.com/

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on February 29, 2008, 03:32:44 AM
Sorry to play moderator in the above posts. But, honestly, if writers don't respect copyrights, who will?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on February 29, 2008, 08:21:53 PM
Finally worked out my notice at a horrible job. The notice was longer than the non-notice time. (Doesn't take a bolder to fall on me.)

I've been cranky; I've been remiss; I've been absent (from MWC); and absent minded. During that 5 weeks, people from MWC, old friends, and family have sensed when to send emails, texts, and just plain track me down while I've worked more hours than I'm told are legal in the UK and should be the same in the US.

I just have to say...It felt a lot like love to have these people in my life. Thank you. You know who you are. I love you, too.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 01, 2008, 04:50:33 AM
I do understand you..Nadine..
Hey, I didn't realise that only one line is okay even if there's the link to the original place..
I'M SORRY FOR THE MISUNDERSTANDING..IT WON'T HAPPEN  AGAIN, I'm sure !!
Thank you..I love you too.!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 01, 2008, 12:02:08 PM
Welcome back to the land of the ... well, virtual? Nadine.

Your job sounded .... bizarre.  Just can't work hours like that in the UK (unless you were a junior doctor a few years back, that is).

Hugs my friend,

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on March 01, 2008, 12:12:05 PM
sorry to break into the above conversation.

But, on the subject of true love.... wouldn't know I've never been in love.

shellie xx
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 01, 2008, 12:13:31 PM
Ah, Shellie, one day my friend.  And then, well....

 ;D
and
 :'(
and
 :-\
and
 >:(
and
 ???
and
 :-*
and lots of
 :D

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on March 01, 2008, 12:15:32 PM
Maybe  ;D

Judging by what you've said there's a good bit to look forward to. lol

shellie xx :D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on March 01, 2008, 08:34:39 PM
Run Shellie run...Be a career woman and get a dog....

Just my thoughts  ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on March 02, 2008, 05:27:26 AM
Run Shellie run...Be a career woman and get a dog....

Just my thoughts  ;)

I'll 2nd that...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 02, 2008, 05:37:58 AM
Shellie,

Don't run too fast. True love is a very special thing. It doesn't require a lot of concessions, isn't possessive or selfish or hurtful. It isn't a prison. With the right person, you can have a career (and a dog). Don't rush into something. But, don't run from the real thing either.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on March 02, 2008, 05:41:49 AM
I do agree with Nadine on that Shellie. I just had to kiss a lot of frogs is all.. ;D I now have a keeper and it is pretty nice. I won't do it again though. I'm the cautious one... :D ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 02, 2008, 05:47:24 AM
Made me smile, Fire-fly.

I admit I won't marry again. Seems to add another element to the mix that complicates and burdons. But, love, yes...I'll do that again.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 02, 2008, 05:47:41 AM
Sune,

Still love ya. It is hard to strike a balance that (hopefully) suits the largest amount of copyright laws. It doesn't help that the internet issues are largely unchallenged in court yet. Best to post the link, and a line helps the readers locate the selection linked, since some websites have several items per page (not to mention they are subject to change without warning).

No worries, Mate. Just doing my job...

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on March 02, 2008, 05:55:08 AM
You are a brave girl Nadine.  ;) I have never made it to the altar and that has been my choice I guess. I have the most amazing cold feet and claustrophobia like you would not believe. Scares me senseless and I dont know why. Bizarre type of person I am. :-[
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 02, 2008, 08:35:14 AM
Is there true love for real?

Well, I guess it depends how you define it.

But me - I think I have a frame of reference.  It's lots of different things, at different times. 

I've been married 27 years this year.  Is that true love, or just persistence?   ;D

I have met love in many different ways.  And love changes.

So, for real?  My answer is... well, yes, actually.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on March 02, 2008, 11:06:36 AM

Yeh, probably does exist since there's so many songs about it ;)

Thanks for the long list of advice (I think)  ;D ;D

I feel like there's a whole lotta love in this room, hehe, love ya all  :-*

shellie xx
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 02, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
Shellie & Fire-Fly,

Carrie has me/us beat by 5 yrs. But, we were married twice, but never divorced. (Does that count for anything?) We eloped. In my husband's 97% Roman Catholic rural hometown, my mother-in-law announced to Father (with a group of women around) that we needed to get married. She meant in the Church. That is NOT how it was taken. Yep, they made us take the marriage class and wait the six month "cooling off" time. So we had been married a year, when at weekday morning Mass, there we stood...me very large in the middle by then...getting married for the second time. Three kids later, our neighbor asks if we were ever going to marry.

So, there are things that can complicate a marriage. Sometimes you end up marrying the whole family, friends, and in our case...that town. But, as far as love goes, that (love) seems to be a pretty good deal.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 07, 2008, 05:16:22 PM
Who said marriage has anything to do with true love?   ;D

Sorry, mixing it today.   8)

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 10, 2008, 05:52:06 PM
Who said Marriage, Sex or all sorts of things like that has anything to do with True Love??   ;)  :) ;D


My Writers Circle > The Coffee Shop > The Coffee Shop > True love? Course there is!! (Warning: Spoof/sexual/swearing/celeb/everything!)

http://www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=13209.0


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 10, 2008, 07:02:31 PM
Okay shoot me! Carrie said she'd been married 27 years. I just went off of that. Not like we ever get side tracked or anything on MWC. Heh heh heh... I still love you guys. Mix away, Carrie.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 10, 2008, 08:09:42 PM
Hahahaaaaa.... ;D ;D
Original concepts are mixed up..muddled up, aren't they?  ;) ;D
Are we shooting the breeze here ??  ;D ;D
Love you all
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 10, 2008, 09:20:50 PM
I donno, sometimes it seems love is being comfortable with each other. Peaceful...

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 10, 2008, 09:35:58 PM
I donno, sometimes it seems love is being comfortable with each other. Peaceful...

Nadine
Hmmmmmmmmmm.............  :) :)
Love is like BEING in that "still, peaceful space" that has no limits or demands or expectations or anything..
But Just "Being in the moment" with ownself or a loved one or absorbed in sunset..nature or anything..
Being in that peaceful moment..where time stand still...??  :) ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 11, 2008, 04:06:48 AM
Yes, I guess I was having a Thomas Merton "tree" moment.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 11, 2008, 05:03:08 PM
Exactly.....Now we are talking!!  ;D ;D ;D

"Love is that Beingness..Stillness..unlimited peaceful space where Time stand still.."

This is from Thomas Merton Writing...  http://www.goodnews.ie/wisdomlineaug2006.shtml

"For me to be a saint means to be myself. Therefore the problem of sanctity and salvation is in fact the problem of finding out who I am and of discovering my true self.
My false and private self is the one who wants to exist outside the reach of God's will and God's love - outside of reality and outside of life.
And such a self cannot help but be an illusion.  We are not very good at recognising illusions, least of all the ones we cherish about ourselves - the ones we are born with and which feed the roots of sin. For most of the people in the world, there is no greater subjective reality than this false self of theirs, which cannot exist.
A tree gives glory to God by being a tree."
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 11, 2008, 09:45:30 PM
Yep, the last line is the beginning of the section I referenced.

To take the leap then in answering the question of this thread, "Love is."

Therefore, in our effort to explain or describe love, we have only spoken of the side effects of love.

But, not as saintly as Friar Merton, I still need to feel unquestionably loved. (At least I need to feel it often enough for the inertia to carry me through the tougher, silent days.)

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 11, 2008, 11:32:49 PM
But, not as saintly as Friar Merton, I still need to feel unquestionably loved. (At least I need to feel it often enough for the inertia to carry me through the tougher, silent days.  Nadine)

It's your personal choice by the mind..and has nothing to do with the true meaning of  LOVE..!  ;) ;D

"Beingness..Awareness..Stillness...Ineffable Joy and Peace in the moment.."..all these words trying to express that indescribable state of mind/self that has no limitations on Time, Space or anything..

True self is that Beingness, Awareness..Love...itself.
The very thing you're seeking for is with you always..
It can be experienced in Stillness..in silence..that has no words or no need for words..!  ;) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 11, 2008, 11:44:41 PM
Yes, yes...the spirit gets it, but the humanity still likes hugs.

(It is always with "me," I agree. But until I do the Jonathan Livingston Seagull thing, I still have Earthbound desires...)

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 11, 2008, 11:55:58 PM
Yes, yes...the spirit gets it, but the humanity still likes hugs.

(It is always with "me," I agree. But until I do the Jonathan Livingston Seagull thing, I still have Earthbound desires...)

Nadine

Of course..By all means..We all love HUGS..Close connections..What's wrong with that..?  ::) ;D
Nothing.. It's Human way of expressing Love with each other..while you know the
Deeper meaning of that  too..!!!  :)
So you've watched  Jonathan Livingston Seagull... Good for you..!!
The very thing you're seeking is already with you always..
The very thing you try to achieve is already with you..
You just have to see and know in heart that you're already there..already arrived in your destination!!

You're already Perfect and Unlimited BEING/ Spiritual Being, having a Limited Human / Bodily Experience
 here by your choice.. ;) ;D


http://www.crookedbush.com/cgi-bin/bookviewer.pl?page=1&bookname=jonathon_livingston_seagull
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on March 17, 2008, 04:26:37 AM
hi! guys!
good to be back!!! :)

This was the first thread I needed to see when I got back... I am so glad it is still alive and well.

Anybody heard from Bagheera?

R U Around friend? How are u doing?

More later...
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 17, 2008, 03:07:41 PM
Hellloooo, Naturewalker..!!!  :)

Great to see you back!!
How are you doing?
Hmmmmm.... No, I haven't seen bagheera for a long time..
Welcome back Dear!!  ;) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on March 17, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
You could PM Bagheera...

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on March 18, 2008, 12:07:25 PM
I found him!!!  8) 8)

How are you guys? All loving and being loved by your near and dear ones???

Coming back to the topic--- Is there true love for real? What is the verdict? Are most of us here the die hard romantics who believe true love is for real? Or are we 'practical' (for the want of a better word) and feel it is only in the books or the movies?

I resoundingly vote for Aye! True love is...IS...

Love you all...
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DGSquared on March 20, 2008, 06:57:13 PM
I want to believe....with all of my heart that romantic love lasts.

I know parent-child is forever. Well, it should be.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 20, 2008, 07:01:02 PM
Welcome back Naturewalker.  Yeah... I still like this thread too.

Carrie x
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on March 23, 2008, 01:16:50 PM
Thanks Carrie!

Parent- child is usually forever... there are exceptions there, too. Soul mates may or may not be spouses. I, for one, consider myself very lucky to have found my love in my marriage. May be I should say that I am extremely fortunate to have found my marriage in my first love. My husband is the typical nice guy- if ever you could find one!
 Organised, a place for everything and everything in its place kind of a man. When he gets back from work, the first thing he ALWAYS does is to put his keys and wallet in their designated spot. As if that is not enough, he, then proceeds to remove his shoes and socks, putting the shoes in his shoe rack and the socks in the laundry!!! Can you believe that? All my friends recount that their husbands make more mess than they clear... Not my man!

He is also a sentimental guy who will occasionally let me know just how much he loves me and is missing me- when he is away! It may not happen often enough but it happens every once in a while.

Sometimes he veritably drives me crazy. Really break-anything-in sight kind of angry. Incidently I have never thrown anything at him or in anger. Never. He does say nice things sometimes to some people... I would definitely feel better were these words said to me and were I held more often in tenderness than I am. But I cannot ask for the heaven AND the earth... or can I?

MAybe... when we are older and have both got more time and feel that we have not done justice to each other, we may say the things that need to be said more often. I only pray that we donot at any point of time feel remorse that we did not do enough- any one of us.

Sometimes I feel I could not be luckier. He is too good to be true. At other times I feel he is good only to 'others'. He says the most insensitive things in front of others and when he says them, expects me to treat them as a joke! If I do, the moment passes and everything settles back into the laidback routine we are living. If I donot treat these as a joke and retaliate- things degenerate so fast that the moments fly in the face of the deep love and connectedness we feel as a couple.
 
It would appear at times that the responsibility of making the relationship special is mine and I am the one who needs it to be so! He would not feel anything amiss if I were not to interact with him for a few days! He would not miss me if I were around even if I were mentally not around!! These conflicting emotions can be confusing. But they are real. They are what make the bond what it is.

I would NOT EVER consider anything else than living with him... even if he is excruciatingly irritating- he is MINE.

And for Sune- I am not saying this from any spiritual journey point of view! I mean it in the real world kind of way. I want to be loved... and told in a million ways on most days that I am loved. It can be a glance or a thoughtful gift. It can be a kiss on the forehead or the lips.

I love my husband and know he loves me... I wish sometimes that he knew it as well!!! Maybe then, he would say and do little things more often!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on March 23, 2008, 01:44:21 PM
Dear naturewalker;
Your husband is rare for sure. I had a pastor at one of the churches I used to go to who was like that. Other men will chide guys like that and go to great lengths sometimes to demonstrate a pride in their slovenly habits as if it was "brought to them by Slitz or Busdwiser and it's their unalienable right to be slobish. It comes out of a root of jealousy I believe. I long to be that kind of person myself because I'm aware that being careless in not putting things back where they should is a fear of not living up to my own expectations and those of others. For this mindset the best way to not fail at it is to stay out of the loop.
He's self accepting and that's good for you. A man like that is much less likely to cheat on his wife. He doesn't have to - he has you; a woman he feels he can trust. He feels a mutual trust is there and when he says those things that sting you need to know that he feels very proud about the relationship he has with you.So much so that he in effect is bragging to the world about it by the dual self effacement.
That's what I'm seeing.
P.S.- You don't have to choreograph a meaningful time with him dear. Just quietly put your arm around him once in a while, give him a quick squeeze, cast him an all knowing smile that shows a vote of confidence for all he is to you and things will be happily ever after from there.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on March 23, 2008, 06:17:05 PM
putting the shoes in his shoe rack and the socks in the laundry!!!

I'm amazed you found a man who even knows that there is such a room in the house called a laundry!!!!  ;D

That is a beautiful insight into your relationship, you are indeed a lucky woman.
I do have a similar relationship myself, but I am a bit cynical about the whole thing because of past baggage I guess. ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 24, 2008, 06:25:23 PM
For many years my marriage was my perfect place... but we all change over time.

Now?  Now I think I'm learning that love is about more than just two people.  Just your children.  Just your partner. Love is about an attitude to life.

Then again - I have drunk nearly a whole (hic) bottle of wine....  ;D

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on March 25, 2008, 01:43:44 AM
Hi! Dynodreamer!
Thanks... for your insight AND your advice... next time I might just do that! Put my arm around him and let it go from there. The problem is orchestration is not what I want... I want spontaneous expression of love as if HE TOO FEELS IT...that is rare to come by! I have tried, believe me, to let things happen by just being there. It works only if both of us feel the emotions- may be not in the same way but atleast to similar proportions! Sometimes  have to wonder- does he really love me? Am I living in my own drerams and delusions? Then... he says something... I am willing to forget all the pain and waiting... just give in to the moment of togetherness. Is it a male- female kind of a thing?

FF!!!
My husband is PERRRRRRFECT!!! But you have to understand all that goes with that package!

Carrie...
I CAN fully identify with what you are saying! Ultimately, the children become our focus and also our escape. However, given that the ups and the downs punctuate our lives... True love remains the ONLY REFUGE for a life lived well... At the end of the day, if we can sit with our graying hair and our love- and remember the good and the bad with nostalgia and feel grateful for the life and love we have lived- all of the ups and downs are worth it.

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on March 25, 2008, 09:58:06 AM
I was so lucky to have found my true love, and yes there are ups and downs, but that is part of life and marriage, getting through them is the secret and with no hard feelings, only the thoughts of trying to do better on both sides.  I was married for thirty seven years, and when my husband died it just about did me in, but i had so many happy memories, and 5 children, 9 grandchildren to keep me sane.  He was the love of my life, and now we have so many fun times thinking about all the crazy things that happened the good and the bad.  He's been gone l6 years and i still haven't found anyone who could live up to him.  I miss him, but he is my guardian angel.  He was a great husband, father and grandfather, and we always think of him with a smile.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on March 25, 2008, 11:51:12 AM
Yes! Allyrose,
At the end of the day... it is how well we live together that counts. Not what went wrong but how it got right again. The will for it to survive. And last. Forever.

You make it sound lovely,
Thanks.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 26, 2008, 07:04:56 PM
And for Sune- I am not saying this from any spiritual journey point of view! I mean it in the real world kind of way. I want to be loved... and told in a million ways on most days that I am loved. It can be a glance or a thoughtful gift. It can be a kiss on the forehead or the lips.

NW


What is Spiritual journey? What is Real life journey?  ??? :)
What is Spiritual experience or spiritual world?
What is Real life experience and Real/ material world??

what's the difference??
Is there any difference?

I invite you all lovingly, to watch this with an open mind...!!  ;) :)

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229

Love
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on March 26, 2008, 09:44:04 PM
Yes Naturewalker- it looks like you have a garden to hoe ... but that as we know comes with the territory. No amount of rubbing will help a leopard appear spotless. AND FURTHER - -  With ourselves and our different personalities -  we are stuck... as YODA would have said.

Seriously though, there are courses available which deal with leveling the field through understanding personality types. It was years ago I took a course on understanding five basic personality types  and being as I merely monitored it - not taking notes, it's only a vague recollection.
You need to meet in the middle with your differences and somehow stop passively challenging one another, (which I seem to sense is the case.) - bold honesty through openness is obviously easier for a woman than a man but you've got to do the honesty bit ...or,
[not meaning to sound like an alarmist], years down the road the wheels could fall off the cart. If possibly you are a Christian and have a church affiliation you could talk to the pastor.
['Better to stop a slide before it begins.] 'Nip it in the bud as they say.
I'd say - be as grateful as you can and - doubt your doubts.
There's plenty to smile about if we're not too busy picking up reasons to frown. (I'm talkin' to myself here.)







Hi! Dynodreamer!
Thanks... for your insight AND your advice... next time I might just do that! Put my arm around him and let it go from there. The problem is orchestration is not what I want... I want spontaneous expression of love as if HE TOO FEELS IT...that is rare to come by! I have tried, believe me, to let things happen by just being there. It works only if both of us feel the emotions- may be not in the same way but atleast to similar proportions! Sometimes  have to wonder- does he really love me? Am I living in my own drerams and delusions? Then... he says something... I am willing to forget all the pain and waiting... just give in to the moment of togetherness. Is it a male- female kind of a thing?

FF!!!
My husband is PERRRRRRFECT!!! But you have to understand all that goes with that package!

Carrie...

I CAN fully identify with what you are saying! Ultimately, the children become our focus and also our escape. However, given that the ups and the downs punctuate our lives... True love remains the ONLY REFUGE for a life lived well... At the end of the day, if we can sit with our graying hair and our love- and remember the good and the bad with nostalgia and feel grateful for the life and love we have lived- all of the ups and downs are worth it.


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on March 26, 2008, 10:16:24 PM
Hi Sune

I checked out that talk on the site you suggested in your post and its very powerful for want of a better word.

I am going to have a look for some more. Thanks babe.  ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 27, 2008, 02:39:52 AM
Thanks FF..
Hope you enjoy the ride!!  ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on March 27, 2008, 11:05:02 AM
Hi Guys ( and gals!),

Do not get me wrong... spiritual journey is fine but is not necessarily the glasses to put on for everyday experience of love! I love my man more than I can say and a lot more than he probably can imagine. That is why I asked about this being a man- woman kind of difference!

Some men and most women have certain ideas that they hold- romantic... dreamy quality of love they want to feel atleast some of the time. Writing letters to express our feelings, getting a rose, a hug while passing close or when least expected... While these do happen to me they could happen more often...

I am very grateful for how my husband is- he is considerate, loving- though a little aloof, verry organised but a little messy, too!!! All in all, I think I have a great packet here!

Though he can be excruciatingly irritating- I LOVE HIM....

The conflict and the resolution are part of how strongly we feel our emotions...

Most of us make the mistake of being in love with the idea of love we hold rather than the love we hold.

Lovingly...
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on March 27, 2008, 11:09:16 AM
Hey...
Quote
we are stuck... as YODA would have said.

Surely Yoda would have said
Quote
Stuck are we
don't you think?  ;D

I think love changes over time.  It deepens, strengthens, and changes in other ways too.

We do change, we are 'stuck' with certain personality traits sure, but I do think we change.  My goodness I hope we change!  I certainly need to change more still.  Adapt.  Bend.  Learn.  But I'm a strong believer in compromise rather than capitulation.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on March 27, 2008, 11:17:27 AM
We certainly do change, and that is a very good thing, I think when one partner changes and the other doesn't there will be trouble in paradise.  I know that when my husband retired we had a short time when we had to find our own niche.  All of a sudden I didn't know how to cook and he was telling me how.  After how many years!!!  Luckily he loved horses and found a place to go where he could be of some use, he used to help out with the Trail Riders of the Canadian Rockies taking people on camps where they could ride and hike.  In the winter he drove sleighs on Lake Louise.  At the end of the day we had lots to talk about.  Also we  had things in common that we liked to do together, which is very important in a marriage,we both golfed, and we loved to travel, and when the children were all gone, life was good.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CallForCries on March 27, 2008, 11:43:32 AM
You are all inspirational!

xx
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on March 27, 2008, 05:20:03 PM
Silly man am I Carrie ... Of course you're on the money.The only thing constant is change.
Death and taxes too maybe?  :-X




Hey...
Surely Yoda would have said  don't you think?  ;D

I think love changes over time.  It deepens, strengthens, and changes in other ways too.

We do change, we are 'stuck' with certain personality traits sure, but I do think we change.  My goodness I hope we change!  I certainly need to change more still.  Adapt.  Bend.  Learn.  But I'm a strong believer in compromise rather than capitulation.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on March 31, 2008, 08:30:51 PM
Well said..dynodreamer and Carrie, ...Only thing constant is CHANGE..  :) :)

Change is inevitable in every moment despite of all resistance and  inflexiblity...
Whether we like it or not, resist or not , Change is always in the air all times!!
So why not ACCEPT change, rather than wasting our Energy for endless fighting??

This is a another Forum from karl and i found there's the Topic of LOVE is already going on!!
It's interesting to  read!!


http://www.karlforum.com/index.php?topic=126.0

Love
sune

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 01, 2008, 06:03:41 AM
Thank you Sune.
Now let's see how far into my mouth my foot can go.
Change is good  if the outcome of actions taken or (the absence thereof) garners a valid (or conceived to be valid) outcome. 'Problem is who's doing the accessing and what is the agenda? The understanding that  "social norms" are on a sliding scale almost precludes absolutes. Here's a consideration ...Did love exist or thrive, in a society where the Angle and the Jute flayed each others bodies? Or in ancient Mesopotamia as  men lorded over women like slave masters? Sacrificial love is never out of fashion, ironically today,where there is social freedom, most of  "enlightened" society today I reckon, would find it restrictive and boring to live like they mean it.
Hence - todays push for each man/woman finding completeness in themselves, and to operate as separate entities, giving and taking and maintaining balance by not crossing over lines.
Compromise is almost good Carrie. All it needs to form a combustible love is a pure selflessness. A relationship such as that would end all war and poverty. [My theory]

The wing of an aircraft is designed in such a way that the whole aircraft can benefit and take advantage of what's called lift. With less air pressure above the wing than below, it wants to rise upwards taking everything that's attached with it.
Society needs another look at the old blueprint for marriage rather than fabricate stop-gap measures. Men aren't aware that they can lead the way.
It's the heart of a woman is to make things work - while it's the heart of the man to make things.

The process of simply learning by our mistakes is pretty well accepted as a balanced theory. However if it's open ended we have to include those of us who are left of center emotionally.
The idea that we learn not to get ourselves into a predicament by doing thus and so, is merely a behavioral readjustment. 
Love of course is and is not a concept. Intrinsic with human love is a relinquishing of self to the object of that love.
 
It may only be an airy-fairy theory in most eyes but If everyone took that ... "There's nothing I wouldn't do for you sweetheart" 
statement they made impulsively when love was young -and made it an avowed priority to live towards that mindset......?????

I do relinquish my idea that things don't really change but only as it can be carried out of harms way by the act of faith.
An admonition transcribed in the Bible states that ... THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS LOVE EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH FAITH.


Well said..dynodreamer and Carrie, ...Only thing constant is CHANGE..  :) :)

Change is inevitable in every moment despite of all resistance and  inflexiblity...
Whether we like it or not, resist or not , Change is always in the air all times!!
So why not ACCEPT change, rather than wasting our Energy for endless fighting??

This is a another Forum from karl and i found there's the Topic of LOVE is already going on!!
It's interesting to  read!!


http://www.karlforum.com/index.php?topic=126.0

Love
sune


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 01, 2008, 11:54:33 AM
DynoDreamer... Very well said... again!
The problem is not the change- that is inevitable. Problem is not even in the assessor or the agenda ( true love very often has no agenda). Love is an interactive, expressed (or sometimes unexpressed emotion) that necessarily has a lover and a loved. The perceptions between the two form the basis of what they call love. This nomenclature does not change the emotion. It is only the perception of that emotion- not the emotion itself that causes the problems where they exist. It is in the nature of water to flow or to quench thirst. It is how the water is percieved that defines its role- not its entity. It is in the nature of love to have and to often express strong attachment. When the lover and the loved speak the same language, they understand each other and when they donot, they can potentially misunderstand each other. I do not meam here Latin/ Greek but the actions that each uses to express or to experience love.

Compromise in my book is NEVER an option! If you love someone, or something, nothing can be of any value in comparision to that feeling and nothing that you give up can qualify as a compromise for the lover. OTHERS, on the other hand do not feel that love nor do they see that value. They may, therefore, name these acts as sacrifice. A sacrifice by definition is giving up a thing of value in favour of something much less so. Selflessness in love is actually the most selfish thing a human being can do! It gives ME immense pleasure to be a source of pleasure for my love! I am not doing something to make him/ her happy... I do it because his/ her happiness makes me happy! Do you get the drift? The Advaita or singularity of universe apart, we are all creatures trying to find value outside our own (concrete, percieved) bodies. There is no sacrifice in loving with all your heart and soul. It is natural to do so.

Any relatiuonship that lives through tests lives on faith. People are not complete unless they find this completion. We may talk of new age and about men and women trying to find completion in themselves... but they are never really complete without each other. And this is not just a man- woman kind of thing. It goes much deeper It is the desire to find fulfillment in something much bigger than oneself.

"The only thing immutable is mutability"... that is the mantra of life. Love deepens or even lessens as we change. Faith is believing in something- anything despite there being no evidence to prove it. Faith and love do indeed make the emotion last... tenderly...

I agree with you when you say...

THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS LOVE EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH FAITH.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 01, 2008, 04:43:50 PM
Hello to all,
I found this link  for a new movie.. "Living luminaries" is so interesting!!!  :) :)

http://www.livingluminariesmovie.com/trailer.htm

http://www.blueribbonmovie.com/


Hope you all enjoy the movie trailer!!
love
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 01, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
 Hi again N. Walker-
I see you have your microscope at work here; In depth, excellent observations.
'Tell you what though, I believe the nugget of any negotiation is in determining if "what the other side heard is what this side said and believes they conveyed." (or something like that)

What I (almost) always do if I'm writing something is have my Websters software window open.
I like to scrutinize the words I'm planning to use and then see if there's another word that takes me closer to the intent of my meaning. I confess I took Carries word compromise a face value without checking it out. Here's a comparative match but closer to the point.

COMPROMISE: 1.) a settlement in which each side gives up some demands or makes concessions.
 *an adjustment of opposing principles, systems, etc. by modifying some aspects of each
      - the result of such an adjustment.
 
CONCESSION: 1.) an act or instance of conceding, granting, or yielding.

Making concessions for my understanding is acceptable and necessary.

Here's something to consider while we're looking. I see sacrifice as giving up for grander cause.
In Christian circles sacrifice of self to God - facilitates a power to overcome lifes struggles.

SACRIFICE n.
1.
a) the act of offering the life of a person or animal, or some object, in propitiation of or homage to a deity
b) something so offered
2.
a) the act of giving up, destroying, permitting injury to, or forgoing something valued for the sake of something having a more pressing claim

3.
a) a selling or giving up of something at less than its supposed value
b) the loss incurred -  I'm not seeing this one at all actually.

ON LOVE IN GENERAL-
I remember that feeling.  Just the thought of doing something retaliatory to hurt the one you love hits you in the solar plexus and it's not something you can do .
I recall years ago in the navy barracks, one acquaintance whom I used to hang out with had a love problem. In the two and a half years I knew him, he fell in love three times... In and out of love as if it was a seasonal illness.  This usually happens with the fairer sex if I understand it right.
He was sure it was love. I imagined it was chemical in nature.(No drugs back in those days.)
"Love deepens or even lessens as we change."
Given the abysmal track record of marriage, the eventuality of possible disintegration-  is something most of us have conceded to. Marriage is not worth the investment- This is todays accepted reality. I'm not sitting on a judgment with it. I live in a glass house. I just believe it's possible with God's intervention to see it work for everyone.
P.S. - I've misquoted the bible verse - " the only thing which counts is Faith expressing itself through Love. Sorry.[ 'Almost synonymous ...almost.]
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 01, 2008, 11:45:44 PM
Dynodreamer:
One does not have to be a Christian to have a religious leader to discuss such things with. (I honestly tried not to end in a preposition, I really did.)

All:
Question regarding change. In a relationship, say marriage, if love seems to no longer exist for several years, was it true love for real? Or was just that one person demanded less and now wants more confirmation that there was ever anything there?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 02, 2008, 01:00:09 AM
 Dear Nadine ~ please receive the grace to end with with.

I think a thread reading ... What is the explanation of love and how can you tell if it's real before you commit? would be a good parallel thread to run.

Nadine, it should never be a "have-to" issue to speak  or confer with others about such a weighty thing as marriage.
I would simply say that if there's one being who understands all things pertaining to the nature of mankind, it only makes sense to solicit
the camp of the Almighty for input. I'm one who subscribes to the idea that he alone has the blueprint for how we tick. :)
Sorry if that belief is found to be offensive to some  ... it seems logical to me.


Dynodreamer:
One does not have to be a Christian to have a religious leader to discuss such things with. (I honestly tried not to end in a preposition, I really did.)

All:
Question regarding change. In a relationship, say marriage, if love seems to no longer exist for several years, was it true love for real? Or was just that one person demanded less and now wants more confirmation that there was ever anything there?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 02, 2008, 07:06:59 AM
DynoDreamer! ;D No... I did not sit with a dictionary. I wrote what came to head and heart. I wrote what felt right! ;) As for your quote from the bible- you got that one on the dot!!! ;) YOu are right- I am not a Christian. What you wrote made perfect sense. It still does.

There are times in our relationships that we want more. That could happen with either partner and each, then, each feels (s)he is not getting enough. Sometimes all it takes is asking for what you want or need. Sometimes each of us is simply doing their own thing not realising how it affects the the other!

LoL,
NW

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sideshunter on April 02, 2008, 09:00:58 AM
unrequited love is the only love that never truly ends.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 02, 2008, 11:40:27 AM
Requited or unrequited- love is love and is as real as any other emotion any human can feel- whether envy or happiness or even sadness. Hope for the fulfillment of your love- and live well.

Love comes quietly - if only we would allow it to. HAve the courage to allow love in. It is a great feeling.
LOL,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 02, 2008, 05:13:49 PM
Looking at our culture’s obsession with the two most popular forms of love
might shed some light on the subject.


1: Physical or sexual love
 
2: Emotional love. [Love as an emotion]

3. Conscious love is real love/unconditional love /Pure love/True love


1 and 2, Both are temporary and subject to change, due to the unconscious desire to get our needs met through another.  


3, conscious love, which due to its all inclusiveness, is consistent and ever expanding.
 It eclipses our cultures usual experience of physical or emotional love and can be integrated into sexual and emotional relationships if we are committed to re-learning what love really is.
It  is the unconditional acceptance of all beings, all living things, and even the inanimate. True love, as in the love of God for each creation, requires no specific behavior or ability to justify nor sustain the love.
 
 

We search for love everywhere, through our children, our parents, friends and lovers, yet most of us feel as if we’re missing out; that the depth and consistency of the love we truly desire just doesn’t seem to eventuate. What we don’t know about real love, is that we can’t ‘get it’, ‘earn it’, ‘keep it’, ‘seek it’ or ‘lose it’. The only way to know conscious love is to give it. Love can’t increase in us and our lives unless we’re consistently extending it and we can’t consistently extend love until we discover the reason for our inability to love in the first place.

We’re so brainwashed into believing that love is something that we ‘get’ and that loving me means “You’ll do what I want”, that we expect that love equates to someone meeting our physical or emotional needs. That’s how we measure love - by how much or how little our needs are met by a certain individual. Love, in our culture has been romantically portrayed as being either sexual, emotional or both, but never as an act of conscious discipline. The closest we come to real and unconditional love (in our ego’s understanding) is expressed in charity however this is not real love either, as it presupposes that one is more needy that the other! If we have ever loved someone and suffered from that love appearing to disintegrate or turn to hate, then we have experienced the ego version of love. The ego’s unconscious catch-cries are: “seek love but never find” and “give to get.” Unless we wake up and consciously take charge, ALL our relationships will play out in the same way!

Read more here pl....

http://www.takemetotruth.com/the-secret-of-real-love.html

Love
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Zetos Lapier on April 02, 2008, 06:06:41 PM
Tell you the, truth, I believe in true love, at times it's hard to believe such a thing, because the world has gone and perverted the idea of true love. True love is a commitment, that you have to be with the person the good and the bad times, something that most people don't understand. The way that most people are taught these days is, "True love is when you FEEL like you love that person a lot. Then when you lose that feeling you don't, so there's no true love."

True love is willing to hold on to that person in the hard times, and in the good times, and to give to them with never-ending love for them, even though at times it's hard. True love doesn't want, unless it wants to give, if you feel like you NEED that person to do stuff for you to have true love, GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP cause you're the one who's screwing it up, true love for a person needs to be that you love them no matter what.

For a good relationship, you both need to go in with the mindset, "Even if we have to go through hell for this, we wil fight for it." Cause if you don't, the relationship is going to break down horribly, and you'll both be hurt somehow.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 03, 2008, 01:55:06 AM
unrequited love is the only love that never truly ends.
Sounds like a word from the experienced.
[Ha! I too rolls me trousers oop mate! ]

Unrequited love ... I've had it happen twice in my life. It's an emotionally debilitating state, but it passes. I've been a source of that state for others too and it's not much better on that end either. 
One young lady, two years ago was just seventeen years old. A beauty she was, and I had a time to keep avoiding her. Whoohaa!  I'm a codger for pete's sake! 
I think they still call it puppy love in some circles. Why do they call it that I always wondered?
And that leads to the question is puppy love real or chemical?  Pardon my levity.

Seriously, I like the strength of conviction we're seeing with the younger set here. I think we should always live way out there somewhere, you know, in a state of undying faith that things can and should change. and that life is here for all of us to live towards the truth.
Good word Zetos! You too Sune!



Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 03, 2008, 02:10:10 AM
DynoDreamer! ;D No... I did not sit with a dictionary. I wrote what came to head and heart. I wrote what felt right! ;) As for your quote from the bible- you got that one on the dot!!! ;) YOu are right- I am not a Christian. What you wrote made perfect sense. It still does.

There are times in our relationships that we want more. That could happen with either partner and each, then, each feels (s)he is not getting enough. Sometimes all it takes is asking for what you want or need. Sometimes each of us is simply doing their own thing not realising how it affects the the other!

LoL,NW
Walker, you are the one putting theory to work here and it's so much easier to decide what's the best thing to do when it's coming from an armchair critique. The only garden I have to hoe is with the little green things that need to stay nurtured soze they can have flowers later this Spring. Communicate. Yes! You can do it. He's always going to have a hard time doing it if only 'cause he's a man.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 03, 2008, 07:26:48 AM
I would not be able to say honestly that I am experienced... in any thing other than my kind of love! I fell for my husband when we first met in Med school. We both did not realise it then. It took us quite a while to realise it ourselves! We are, however, still in love after 15 years of being married.  :) :)

I would not know the pain of unrequieted love and do not want to fall out of the love I am living.
There will be good days and bad- sure! I have had those. They happen to all. As I said to another friend A single episode of loving words and I am ready to forgive any percieved slight. A single touch, and I am ready to forget anything ion the past!
So long as I can honestly have that response, I know I have found my true love.
That is all that matters!
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 03, 2008, 12:48:29 PM
There you go!  :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 03, 2008, 01:14:40 PM
Sure! I do. I love being there! I still run to be home if he is unexpectedly home. I love to steal a moment with him- a the local barrista or at our fav book shop or even the well-stocked music store.

And there are times that we would probably not want to look at each other let alone talk... fortunately these are few and far in between. Both of us understand and come around!

We realise just how much each of us means to the other...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 05, 2008, 01:25:43 PM
There you go!  :)

Finally...!!! :) :)
Finally coming to an agreement..Forgiveness is the Best medicine  at all times!!!
Thank you all!!!
Cheers
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 05, 2008, 02:40:49 PM
Acceptance comes easily when you are in love. Forgiveness comes a little later, Sune.
Love is a great weather in any season!  :)  HAve fun ;)

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 05, 2008, 03:32:04 PM
Just a thought...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrequited_love

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 05, 2008, 06:37:27 PM


Just a thought...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrequited_love

Nadine

'Some interesting tidbits Nadine.

God knows unrequited love is one of the worst emotions to feel. The theme is played out in the movies time and time again.
They rip yer heart out most of the way through the movie and then when you MOST expect it ... salvation comes along and makes it all better. You cry with joy into your buttered popcorn and go home convinced of what a great movie it was. How bout if the girl didn't get her man? 'Not so great huh?

My current project has a handsome priest in the surprise parallel ending, relinquishing his cloth to marry and support the  woman of his dreams and her needy family by being a successful writer.



Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 07, 2008, 02:33:48 PM
Acceptance comes easily when you are in love. Forgiveness comes a little later, Sune.
Love is a great weather in any season!    HAve fun

NW


Accetance  and forgiveness for the moment, for the other person, for the thoughts or actions or anything else...is a momentary basis CHOICE you make every time!!!
It doesn't need anything other than Willingness to have Peace of mind!!
Conflicting time...........................................................Forgiving and Letting Go time

In between time is SUFFERING TIME!!!
It can be mins, days, weeks, months  years, or life times!!
CHOICE IS YOURS!!!
love
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 07, 2008, 02:41:46 PM
Sure.
I will repeat... love is great weather in any season.
No suffering needed. Often it is meaningless and pointless.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 07, 2008, 03:58:26 PM
Sure.
I will repeat... love is great weather in any season.
No suffering needed. Often it is meaningless and pointless.
NW


GREAT!!!!

Exactly...suffering is an unconscious choice..

If you CHOOSE, PEACE consciously, Suffering Time is diminishing at
every conscious step of FORGIVING and LETTING GO..to your ownself or the other person
 or actions and thought or any transitory situation..!!!

Sooner the better of Forgiving game,as you're moving out of the suffering drama!!
GREAT,...NW...that's it!!!  ;) :)

p.s. -We use words as Peace, Acceptance, Forgiveness, and so many with the same vibration..but they all come to one point, one source...That is LOVE !!!!
Word game is because of Human language skills and Thinking patterns..but the  Deeper meaning is always about LOVE ....in one word for all !!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 11, 2008, 07:44:10 PM
http://www.mindpowernews.com/PostTraumatic.htm

Army Tests Yoga & Meditation for
Post-Traumatic Stress


 The military is scrambling for new ways to treat the brain injuries and post-traumatic stress of troops returning home from war.

And every kind of therapy -- no matter how far outside the accepted medical form -- is being considered. The Army just unveiled a $4 million program to investigate everything from "spiritual ministry, transcendental meditation, [and] yoga" to "bioenergies such as Qi gong, Reiki, [and] distant healing" to mend the psyches of wounded troops.

Read more on that link...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 12, 2008, 12:30:05 AM
Brain Scientist has a Stroke of Enlightenment

Neuroanatomist Jill Bolte Taylor had an opportunity few brain scientists would wish for: One morning, she realized she was having a massive stroke. As it happened -- as she felt her brain functions slip away one by one, speech, movement, understanding -- she studied and remembered every moment. This is a powerful story of recovery and awareness -- of how our brains define us and connect us to the world and to one another.  

But I realized "But I'm still alive! I'm still alive and I have found Nirvana. And if I have found Nirvana and I'm still alive, then everyone who is alive can find Nirvana." I picture a world filled with beautiful, peaceful, compassionate, loving people who knew that they could come to this space at any time. And that they could purposely choose to step to the right of their left hemispheres and find this peace. And then I realized what a tremendous gift this experience could be, what a stroke of insight this could be to how we live our lives. And it motivated my to recover.

Watch the video of her experiences here...

http://www.mindpowernews.com/StrokeEnlightenment.htm

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 13, 2008, 04:20:34 PM

What is LOVE?

http://www.karlforum.com/index.php?topic=403.0

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 14, 2008, 09:44:59 AM
What is LOVE?

http://www.karlforum.com/index.php?topic=403.0

LOVE IS
~not the Alana Myles Version

Love had it's birth
with the Ancient One;
'Began with Omega
Proceeding the Sun
Love's not a volume
Or archival jug
It's more like a blanket
Or tapestry rug
Perhaps like a river
Or ...(umm) a shoe or a sock
It tends to go with you
where ever you walk

Love is the answer
To market one's wares
Mediator for wisdom
In foreign afairs
Love is a family
Which passes it on
When for many around us
The essence is gone

Love is the path
In the gardens of hope
It follows the seasons
Replacing - "to cope"
Love is the nurture
Which grew in the womb
Love charts the journey
From craddle to tomb
Love is tomorrow
In living today
Love is forever
What more can I say?
 
  R.J. Bates/08
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 15, 2008, 12:36:31 AM
Hi, Dynodreamer..

That's so beautiful and meaningful..!!!

THANK YOU DYNODREAMER...Well said in this lovely poem!!  ;) :) :)

cheers
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 15, 2008, 09:41:32 AM
Thanks Sune, This one came airmail express from my Muse. 'Almost word for word ... in about 13 minutes, so the kudos really belong to him.
 :)



Hi, Dynodreamer..

That's so beautiful and meaningful..!!!

THANK YOU DYNODREAMER...Well said in this lovely poem!!  ;) :) :)

cheers
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 15, 2008, 10:35:17 PM
This one came airmail express from my Muse. 'Almost word for word ... in about 13 minutes, so the kudos really belong to him..

Hmmmm...That's so nice of you!!
Your  muse....a poet???
You've really interesting ways of expressing ideas in your way!!
Those writings are inspirational and humorous at the same time...
Good job, Dynodreamer!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 16, 2008, 01:14:26 AM
Beautiful poem, Bates.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: iCeFaiRy on April 16, 2008, 02:00:42 PM
Geez, the younger members here are SO cynical!  Could it be a defence mechanism???  ;)

Maybe. (I'm 19, by the way)  :P

I'd certainly like to find a true love. And not those too idealised ones (prince, white horse, etc.). I want a more down to earth, steady love. It can be very tiring living life alone, so if you find someone who you have no doubt you want to share your life with, why not?

The problem is that we youngsters are focusing on brains rather than hearts. I'm sure if we open up we can find someone though.

My faith lies in my ignorance. Love is like a shoe or a sock (quoting Bates' poem), so it's near us wherever we go, we're just not aware of it though.

We need someone who's in love to share some of his/her thoughts here, I think.  ;D

~Tortoise~
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 20, 2008, 07:21:06 PM
Interesting link...Hope you all enjoy!!

http://www.universallifetools.com/waveoflove/movie/waveoflove_large.html

P.S. Dare to be surprised by the answer?? Try this one pl...Just click on the card.. !!   

http://www.heavenletters.org/gods-cosmic-loveletters-universe.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUKigAHtlig

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 20, 2008, 09:09:51 PM
Vagabond,

The only nice young guys I know are in the USA. But, with YOU and them is evidence there are nice men and women out there who are willing to believe in true love and devote to the quest to find it. Keep your faith.

Those of us (much) older know for certain the world/universe holds marvelous possibilities.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: rhea08 on April 20, 2008, 09:48:13 PM
Hey I never thought I would find a great man who loves me but I got blessed with a man who loves me and loves to cook and write me poems too and also supports my writing.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 20, 2008, 09:51:25 PM
Vagabond,

I ignored your request for comments about "in love" -- rather, I ran from it because I was asked for a divorce two weeks ago today. But, maybe I do know a thing or two about love anyway after 22 yrs of marriage and three kids and a lot of living that brings good friends into one's life (different kinds of love).

There is an ancient text, commonly known as the Bible, that describes love as patient, kind... I can't disagree with any of that. I suspect there are many ancient texts with such information, since Love is a longstanding topic of interest. I would say all of those things listed are the common thread in each type of love, even of how we treat ourselves.

As for the "couple" thing, I'd say love isn't enough because marriage is very complicated. I think it takes some commonalities. I think it takes a willingness to check one's baggage at the door. And, I think it really requires being "in love" in addition to basic love. I think knowing one is loved is not enough, I think (for me) it has to be felt...as in the things I've mentioned in previous posts, a look, a touch, words of endearment, nearly possessed with and by each other so that it physically hurts to be apart for very long. Can that be sustained, now that is the question. I believe the answer is yes, for the right two people.

I've mentioned (in previous posts) about my cousin who looks younger and is happier in her second marriage, and my husband's elderly aunt (now married two years) who still acts like teenagers in their first love. Looking at them and Rhea, I have to confirm, there is true love for real. Settle for nothing less.



Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 21, 2008, 01:05:51 AM
Dear Nadine,
After twenty two years of being married and with all the rest that goes with it- I am sure you have some very interesting experiences. It is sometimes ... well... disheartening to see relationships that have survived so long break-up over smaller and inconsequential things.

I have to agree with you, though that love for me has to be felt in the little things we do everyday. It could be just a look or a hug. It has to be something you do FOR the one you love and THAT brinigs you peace and joy.

I read somewhere and I do not know who said it- but it is rather beautiful way of putting it.

" The most difficult lesson in life is to learn to love like a well- not like a fountain... to love when THEY need it and not merely WHEN you want to!"
Rhea-
Enjoy your love and life... it is so satisfying to have someone love just like you WANT to be loved. We all have different ways of showing our love. When these match between lovers, the feeling is wonderful.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 21, 2008, 01:25:17 PM
I have a theory Sune.
'Quite a few actually.
This one in particular is that there is band of creative energy circling the globe  (something akin to the jet stream).
There are various angels deployed to help us with the creative process ...
A) functional adjuncts to improving life on earth- the wheel [etcetera.]
B) literary works to inspire and provoke the thought process in others.

In Christian circles (read charismatic) there is a prophecy which has God sending out angels in the last days, with golden pens to place in the hands of those in general, who aspire to higher ideals in life and those who wish to not be ashamed to say they love God.
[A TRUE LOVE]
It's an engaging image for me. To put a name to these entities may not be called for but I call my muse Dialoquese.
Weird enough for yu?    :o   :D   ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 21, 2008, 01:29:13 PM



Beautiful poem, Bates.

Nadine
   That's Richard James ... [thank you]
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on April 21, 2008, 03:30:15 PM
I keep coming back to this thread... so many interesting contributions.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 21, 2008, 08:17:35 PM
I have a theory Sune.
'Quite a few actually.
This one in particular is that there is band of creative energy circling the globe  (something akin to the jet stream).
There are various angels deployed to help us with the creative process ...
A) functional adjuncts to improving life on earth- the wheel [etcetera.]
B) literary works to inspire and provoke the thought process in others.
Weird enough for yu
?
Dynodreamer

No, not weird for me..!!
As i see, everything is part of the Game Plan..Everyone acts as a Game player as is..
and Cycles of life go on continuously till we really see, where all projections coming from..
Hope you see it..!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 22, 2008, 12:20:21 AM
Unfortunately dear fellow our minds are ill equipped to process the full scope of variables that would have to be factored into the equation. We'd run the risk blowin' our brains out. It would just take us a looong time to do it. [like slow motion bullet movement.]
Actually  ...it's something that can only be decided in our spirits through a  process  called discernment.
Knowledge moves like a river but most people think they can capture it with a hammer and nail - 'tack it down while they analyze it.

Shall we start a spirituality thread  ... do you think?



I have a theory Sune.
'Quite a few actually.
This one in particular is that there is band of creative energy circling the globe  (something akin to the jet stream).
There are various angels deployed to help us with the creative process ...
A) functional adjuncts to improving life on earth- the wheel [etcetera.]
B) literary works to inspire and provoke the thought process in others.
Weird enough for yu
?
Dynodreamer

No, not weird for me..!!
As i see, everything is part of the Game Plan..Everyone acts as a Game player as is..
and Cycles of life go on continuously till we really see, where all projections coming from..
Hope you see it..!!  :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 22, 2008, 06:51:07 PM
That's funny...No we do not have to blow our  Brains out..!!  ;) :) ;D

Thinking and too much thinking, analysing, compairing, reasoning, judging, acting out for the illusionary seperation, ........all Left Brain activities will NEVER get ENOUGH!!

Instead, being in Silence, Stillness, No Thought Zone....allow the Right Brain/ Mystic Brain, to show us the way that is already there all along!!
The very thing you are seeking is already with you all along..It's only recognising it..!
It takes some work as we're used to Disbelieve ourselves, our intuition/ gut feelings/ Inner knowing!!

Have you checked this thread Dynodreamer..?

http://www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=13659.msg170577#msg170577
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 22, 2008, 11:38:39 PM
Sune!
Have you read The Celestine Prophecy?
 You probably would have... We rae born with all the accumulated knowledge of humanity within our genes. We only need to REdiscover this data bank. The so called 'masters' are able to dip in and come out with relevant pearls at will. The rest of us have to struggle a bit. We need not. If we just stay still for a few moments the butterfly may gently alight on our choulders. While if we continue to run after the butterfly it, more often than not, is elusive- just out of our hand's reach! And when, we do manage to catch it, we may still hurt its delicate wings...
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 23, 2008, 12:22:42 AM
Sune!
Have you read The Celestine Prophecy?
 You probably would have... We rae born with all the accumulated knowledge of humanity within our genes. We only need to REdiscover this data bank. The so called 'masters' are able to dip in and come out with relevant pearls at will. The rest of us have to struggle a bit. We need not. If we just stay still for a few moments the butterfly may gently alight on our shoulders. While if we continue to run after the butterfly it, more often than not, is elusive- just out of our hand's reach! And when, we do manage to catch it, we may still hurt its delicate wings...
NW

Very intresting Naytch. You know what? I have developed a rapport with the robins in my neighborhood over the last couple of years.
What I mean is that when I whistle to them with a certain repetitive call they respond with their own tune and do an honorary fly by. Two by two. YES! I KNOW!!! 
It's too early to connect with the butterflies but I'll keep that thought in mind for later on this summer. Keeping the designated topic alive,
I have found that squirrels are too contentious, but BIRDS? I LOVE them birds.


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 23, 2008, 01:36:13 AM
yeah! Dyno!! ;)

Butterflies are symbolic of peace ( in my mind) AND beauty. They are silently going about their 'daily grind', seemingly uncomplainingly and are yet so much at peace that their fluttering, too is noiseless.

You are lucky to have a love in your life- birds or squirrels- so long as it brings pleasure, it is GOOD...

On the aside- don't you think squirrels look sooooooo cute when they peel little nuts with their tiny paws and eat these at break neck pace. Have you eevr had the occassion to watch on ein action? It is quite endearing really!


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Big T on April 23, 2008, 04:03:39 AM
Two contributions to your discussions.  ::)

IN LOVE?


IF LOVE

Poems now deleted and back in my files. Thanks for the comments.
T
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on April 23, 2008, 06:39:07 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Love them both T  :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 23, 2008, 07:14:27 AM
Well ya... When I was a kid I got a kick out of squirrels but these days they're old hat for me I'm afraid.
Birdies are round and friendly looking to me. They bounce around like little toys on pogo sticks and they have no arms. Aaaw!
The one thing that gets me is that they're totally invisible to the general public. I'm just lucky enough to be able to see them.

yeah! Dyno!! ;)

Butterflies are symbolic of peace ( in my mind) AND beauty. They are silently going about their 'daily grind', seemingly uncomplainingly and are yet so much at peace that their fluttering, too is noiseless.

You are lucky to have a love in your life- birds or squirrels- so long as it brings pleasure, it is GOOD...

On the aside- don't you think squirrels look sooooooo cute when they peel little nuts with their tiny paws and eat these at break neck pace. Have you eevr had the occassion to watch on ein action? It is quite endearing really!



Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 23, 2008, 12:48:11 PM
Lucky you! There would be a few who think you are going bananas- talking to invisible beings etc. Sometimes it is fun to watch people watching you! And if let on rthat you know- it is even more fun... ;) :D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 23, 2008, 07:14:32 PM
Hello to all..
Lovely poems Big T..Thanks for sharing!!
hmmmm...Birds...or..animals..?

Here for all these Animal Lovers..Enjoy..!!   

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/26051/talking_parrot/

http://media.animal.discovery.com/fansites/petstar/videogallery/mostwatched/mostwatched.html

http://media.animal.discovery.com/fansites/petstar/videogallery/moments/video.html

http://media.animal.discovery.com/fansites/petstar/videogallery/mostwatched/mostwatched.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 23, 2008, 07:37:13 PM
I just got this in my mail-box today, from a friend..
Thought to post it here ...



This is hilarious!!
 
Marriage Counseling



A husband and wife came for counseling after 15 years of marriage.
 
When asked what the problem was, the wife went into a passionate, painful
tirade listing every problem they had ever had in the 15 years they had
been married.
 
She went on and on and on: neglect, lack of intimacy, emptiness,
loneliness, feeling unloved and unlovable, an entire laundry list of un-met
needs she had endured over the course of their marriage.
 
Finally, after allowing this to go on for a sufficient length of time, the
therapist got up, walked around the desk and, after asking the wife to
stand, embraced and kissed her passionately.
 
The woman shut up and quietly sat down as though in a daze.  The therapist
turned to the husband and said, "This is what your wife needs at least
three times a week.  Can you do this?"
 
The husband thought for a moment and replied,..  "Well, I can drop her off
here on Mondays and Wednesdays, but on Fridays, I  go  fishing ."


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 24, 2008, 03:15:48 AM
SUNE!!!!!
You hit the nail right on the head! The fact that the wife AND the husband werer both sitting in front of the therapist, though, shows true love has hope!! ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: fire-fly on April 24, 2008, 03:48:17 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

That cracked me up Sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on April 24, 2008, 03:55:59 PM
The radio 4 afternoon play today was about a couple who married for 30 years and how at the end of it, with kids and everything, they really didn't have anything. It was sad, but I reckon true for many people.

I think love is about more than attraction, and about partners and partnering.  But then, as I even say in one of my own songs,
Hey, what do I know about love?  Hmmm, maybe I'll stick that back up on my myspace.  It needs changing around again.

Happy Thursday all

Carrie

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 25, 2008, 12:39:33 AM
With the same Email i got this one too..
It simply shows their point of view..may be suit with most of them..if not all for sure..!!
 It's pretty good to know, their mental-program/script..!!
Hope you all enjoy!!


The Man Rules

At last a guy has taken the time to write this all down.. "The guys' side of the story"

We always hear 'the rules' From the female side,
Now here are the rules from the male side !!


 
These are our rules!
Please note... they are all numbered '1' ON PURPOSE!



1.   Men are NOT mind readers.

1.   Sunday sports It's like the full moon or the changing of the tides.   Let it be.

1.   Crying is blackmail.

1.   Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one!  Subtle hints do not work!  Strong hints do not work!  Obvious hints do not work!   Just say it!

1.   Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

1.   Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it.   That's what we do.   Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

1.   Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument. In fact, all comments become Null and void after 7 Days.

1.   If you think you're fat, you probably are.  Don't ask us.

1.   If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one.

1.   You can either ask us to do something Or tell us how you want it done. Not both.   If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.

1.   Whenever possible, Please say whatever you have to say during commercials.

1.   Christopher Columbus did NOT need directions and neither do we.

1.   ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings. Peach, for example, is a fruit, not A color. Pumpkin is also a fruit.
      We have NO idea what mauve is.

1.   If it itches, it will be scratched. We do that.

1.   If we ask what is wrong and you say 'nothing,' We will act like nothing's wrong. We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.

1.   If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, Expect an answer you don't want to hear.

1.   When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine... Really!

1.   Don't ask us what we're thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as baseball or golf.

1.   You have enough clothes.

1.  You have too many shoes.

1.   I am in shape.  Round IS a shape!

1.   Thank you for reading this.   Yes, I know I have to sleep on the couch tonight; But did you know men really don't mind that? It's like camping.

Pass this to as many men as you can - to give them a laugh.

Pass this to as many women as you can - to give them a bigger laugh.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 25, 2008, 01:30:39 AM
Sune!
That is hillariously true! It's that man woman kind of thing again... we talk different languages. In the end what matters is whether we are willing to try and understand atleast some of the time what the other is saying or not.
It is often assumed that the Rules are applicable to women only as they are the ones with the need to be loved.
In my opinion ( Dyno... correct me here from a man perspective...) some of the men are equally in NEED to be loved though many may not be.
If atleast some of the time we find our hearts fluttering and feel good about being with our love- we have it made!
The high is really high... the lows can be few and far in between ( preferable) or frequent (needing work) ... but both are relative.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 26, 2008, 02:38:42 PM


In my opinion ( Dyno... correct me here from a man perspective...) some of the men are equally in NEED to be loved though many may not be. If at least some of the time we find our hearts fluttering and feel good about being with our love- we have it made!
The high is really high... the lows can be few and far in between ( preferable) or frequent (needing work) ... but both are relative.
NW
Not to be entirely flippant about it ...Some men have greater needs on that score - You'll find most of those fellows on the daytime soaps. I think a man works off the chemistry level of his partner- and it can appear, (whether of true or not) that she is taken for granted.
If a man thinks about losing the well it's likely because the well appears to be running dry.[You don't miss your water till your well runs dry, sort of thing] A woman wants to ensure a healthy future and is diligent to know when to go into maintenance mode. A man assumes all is well and thrives on the synergy of it all.
Life is high and low of course for everyone.For low tides ...the trick I guess is to find a method that compliments the relationship- rather than each one camping out in the islands or our minds with the intent to return when the storms pass.
But the bonus time is when the sight of their kids remind him of her stamp on his life.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: coffeexpert on April 26, 2008, 10:05:34 PM
Yes, it is and you will know it two ways, you will either feel it in your heart too as she/he does
 or if you are a guy, she will slap the blindness out of you & you will feel it too.  LOL
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 27, 2008, 12:50:22 AM
WOW!
slapping the blindness out of a blind guy may not always work! It is definitely worth a try... ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 27, 2008, 02:00:26 AM
Hmmm, slapping. Nope, don't think that will work.

There seems to be a certain pride in being the unemotional bloke, but he is the same fellow who brings fresh flowers when trying to attract a woman's attention, so he knows more than he is letting on. Therefore, I'd surmise, that it is that some men do not realize that the attraction is best nurtured indefinitely. But, I suspect it is the hunt/chase that is the focus. How foolish. Could have had so much more, if only they nurtured the love once attracted. Women seem to understand this. Unsure why that is.

So...the "if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound if no one is there" question really doesn't matter. What matters is that the sound is not heard if no one is there. And, no matter how much a man and woman love each other, if he is not responsively "there" he will never hear the love he could have had heard.

So, if slapping works on selective hearing...then...well, er...go for it.


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on April 27, 2008, 11:55:23 AM
Yes, it is and you will know it two ways, you will either feel it in your heart too as she/he does
 or if you are a guy, she will slap the blindness out of you & you will feel it too.  LOL
I'm conjuring up the image of the scene in Moonlighting where Cher's character tries to persuade Nicolas Cage that he doesn't really love the woman ... by giving him a slap up-side the head.
GUARANTEED to get a guys attention.
No guarantee that it will garner the intended results however. He won her over anyways.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on April 27, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
The imagery is great- both CoffeeXpert and Nadine.

As I said- it may not always work. Nadine and Dyno are of a similar opinion. It is definitely worth a try IF it works. If nothing else it will give you the satisfaction of having tried and caught his attention atleast.
I liked very much the comparision with the sound of a falling tree. The sound will be there whether anyone hears it or not.
what a guy does to win over a woman is often quite endearing and misleading. Endearing because it really does make a woman feel special. Misleading because we all make the mistake of assuming something similar if not same will go on in our life to keep making us feel important- it often does not last a life time. Even if the love does last.
I do believe, however, that if you are not getting what you want- in a ny relationship- work, love, friends- you have to give it a fair chance and ask for it. People are unlikely to be able to divine exactly what you want unless it is spelt out. If you still do not get it- you must find better methods to be heard.
What is interesting is how and why a man ( or even a woman) forgets to devote the same attention to a relationship as it gets older. Women are less likely to be guilty on this count. They do assume that they MUST be understood WITHOUT stating the obvious. For a man the obvious need not be stated.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ScorpioGirl on April 28, 2008, 04:03:15 PM
follow, ask, follow - rejected.

Stop following - does he turn back to you?

In my case. No.

stop chasing, stop trying. 

Result?  Stopped loving.

Is there true love for real?  Yes.  But that doesn't mean it will last forever.

Scorpio Girl
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on April 28, 2008, 06:52:05 PM
Once  we learn to LOVE ourselves with all seeming persernal flaws and errors and all,

 and learn to Approve and Accept our ownselves as we are RIGHT NOW,

then this waiting and needing others approval and acceptance and love

or feeling irritable or unlovable or neglected, ceases with all its' might...!!!


When we  see and feel LOVE, ACCEPTANCE and APPROVAL  for ourselves,
 others unconsciously get that message to do the same..

We HATE, the way we are or what we are or what we did or do..then others do the same  for us..showing we are RIGHT..
I see it as SELF-FULFILLING PROPHESY..
What we thought or believe  for our ownselves [inner] are the same, we experience in outer..
Outer is a Reflection of Inner..!

Outer represents, partners, husbands, children, friends, neighbours, workmates, pets and all,
 who come into contact at any given moment..

We VIBRATE with our Inner thoughts, feelings and emotions..Others unconsciously  REACT to it!!

So if OUTER is always going wrong then the BEST place to look at is...the MIRROR..!!
and if the outer is feeling good or whatever it is..still the Best place to look at is the MIRROR..!


Life happens...though sometimes we feel good or bad about it in any moment....
Some things, we may change or choose otherwise  and some things  may not be changeable..
As i see, the trick is, change/choose  what we can and 
just accept or let go of other things..as they are..
Anyhow Change is inevitable..in anything..

Learning to be in peace in inner environment is not an easy task ,when we focused on  seemingly chaotic outer reality..
It doesn't need to go to a CAVE or High mountain top alone to be in isolation ...but changing the FOCUS
and Accepting whatever it is..rather than RESISTANCE!!
Resistance is Futile...Is this said in Star Trek..?

What's the reward ...Of course, Inner Peace!!
Easier to say than done anyhow!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on April 28, 2008, 07:05:20 PM
Women need love full time; men only part time. I guess that's why they call us horn dogs.

If you don't believe it, look at the divorce rate in the U.S.A...70%   That means those getting married only have a 30% chance of staying married (true love).
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 28, 2008, 09:30:36 PM
Sune,

Perhaps within the hallowed halls of theoretical behavioral sciences, this is true. However, in applied behavioral sciences, where the live human element is introduced, it is much more complex. Humans are generally at their best when interdependent rather than in a blissful void. It is in our interactions that theory becomes fact and fact is put into practice, adjusted and readjusted to the ever changing human condition.

While it would probably be wonderful to experience such bliss, it would also be empty. We are, by nature, social creatures. To reach such a perfect accepting state alone seems to be outside human nature. We cannot exist in isolation, not even...if we chose to try.

Given the choice, I'd rather experience the total acceptance of me as I am for a week of real love, than a lifetime of being comfortable in my own skin and alone with that comfort.

Then again, maybe I'm Fletcher and you are Jonathan Livingston Seagull. Who knows?

Dominic, staying married is no indication that it is true love. It only means that some sort of committment has been honored. How well? Who knows.

S. Girl,

Yes...I'd rather have a moment of true love than a million moments of any other kind of love.


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on April 28, 2008, 10:28:55 PM
I'll take the high desert, my lap-top and a good dog. Like I said, "women need to be married full time, a man just part time."
That's why men need time with their mates (male mates).

I wonder if they have a lease program?







hehe...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 29, 2008, 01:46:51 AM
Jeepers, that was funny, Dom...and a bit sad. Do you eat half a meal and toss the rest? Change half the oil in your vehicle? Watch half a football game? Only eat the icing on the cake? Have a laptop without the battery?

Seems very much like half an effort to the most important relationship in your life. Doesn't seem like much of an Indy 500 without enough fuel to get around to the pit the next time. But, what do I know?

The sad part? I think what you said is true.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on April 29, 2008, 02:03:49 AM
Nadine,
I have been in love so many times.. the last one is always the one..Maybe I'm French? I thought I was Italian?
I have only loved one women (all my life). I fell in love with her when I was 9. She was 23. I was a kid, she was a movie star (Veronica lake).
I told all my friends I would marry her.  Well things didn't work out. somehow, our paths never crossed.
I had an old friend who was in the U.S. Army Air force in World War Two. He told me a story about how he picked up this drunk movie star, and she did it with him and four others. He said her name was Veronica Lake.
I have never been the same since. I don't drink nor use drugs, so I took to writing.
I would have forgiven her, but the bitch died.lol.........................................
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on April 29, 2008, 02:46:34 AM
Maybe your buddy was lying...

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ScorpioGirl on April 30, 2008, 07:34:06 AM
ah, I like being in love, for sure indeed.

But the rejection thing?  hmm... I guess it helps inspire (albeit bad) poetry

SG
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 01, 2008, 09:00:51 PM

http://www.newworldlibrary.com/productdetails.cfm?SKU=15685

YOU CAN BE HAPPY NO MATTER WHAT


15TH ANNIVERSARY: Five Principles for Keeping Life in Perspective
Author: Richard Carlson

 In this revised edition, #1 New York Times bestselling author and nationally known stress-management consultant Dr. Richard Carlson reveals a profound breakthrough in human psychology. Most of us believe that our happiness depends on outside circumstances, that by solving our problems, improving our relationships, or achieving success we will find contentment. But Dr. Carlson clearly shows that happiness has nothing to do with forces beyond our control — in fact, he says, it is our natural  state.

With this simple and practical guide, Dr. Carlson shows us how to be happy now, before we solve our problems. By understanding five principles — Thought, Moods, Separate Realities, Feelings, and the Present Moment — we can discover a new mode of living that doesn't repress natural emotions yet doesn't allow feelings and thoughts to overwhelm us. You Can Be Happy No Matter What is a navigational tool that gently guides readers through life's challenges and restores the joy of living.

“A most important book that shows us in practical terms how to remove the blocks to the awareness of our natural state, happiness.”
— Gerald G. Jampolsky, MD, author of Love Is Letting Go of Fear
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on May 03, 2008, 01:47:38 PM
Nadine you write good and that's for true.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 03, 2008, 09:09:20 PM
Gosh! *blush* I wasn't expecting that, Dyno. *humbly* Thank you.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 05, 2008, 07:29:09 PM
Perhaps within the hallowed halls of theoretical behavioral sciences, this is true. However, in applied behavioral sciences, where the live human element is introduced, it is much more complex. Humans are generally at their best when interdependent rather than in a blissful void. It is in our interactions that theory becomes fact and fact is put into practice, adjusted and readjusted to the ever changing human condition.

While it would probably be wonderful to experience such bliss, it would also be empty. We are, by nature, social creatures. To reach such a perfect accepting state alone seems to be outside human nature. We cannot exist in isolation, not even...if we chose to try.

Given the choice, I'd rather experience the total acceptance of me as I am for a week of real love, than a lifetime of being comfortable in my own skin and alone with that comfort.
Nadine


As I see,  this is  your opinion about Human behaviour or psychology or practicallity..!!

As sure it is, in most cases and  in most stages of life, it's TRUE!!

But Life experiences are constantly changing..ever flowing in its' own way in every moment, every day.....
bringing us oneday/ one time..into the Realizations of Deep Truth of Real reality ...as for  WHO WE ARE REALLY.... ...
other than being a Social Creature or just a another participant of the Survival Game.!!

Till then, all the ideas or experiences of others about the Peace and Bliss WITHIN is driving us mad..isn't it??
And that's just natural and obvious......!
We all pass that stage one time or the other..in its' own timing!!

Anyway i found some interesting writings on oprah.com about self-journeys to understand itself..
Read more here pl..



http://www2.oprah.com/omagazine/200805/omag_200805_spirituality.jhtml


Cornel West, PhD
Professor in the Center of African-American Studies, Princeton University, and author of Democracy Matters (Penguin)
http://www2.oprah.com/omagazine/200805/omag_200805_spirituality_103.jhtml

Noah Levine
Author of Against the Stream (HarperOne)
http://www2.oprah.com/omagazine/200805/omag_200805_spirituality_104.jhtml



http://www2.oprah.com/spiritself/oss/ss_oss_main.jhtml

http://event.oprah.com/videochannel/event/event_landing_2.html
It's the live two-hour finale of Oprah and Eckhart's landmark webcast series!
How can you bring awareness to every moment of your life?



http://www.heavenletters.org/what-goodness-lies-around-corner.html   
 Choose again..My Dear Friend...Pay attention to everyday moments of LIFE to see what it's telling you..Ask  hard questions from  Ownself..!!                                                               
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 06, 2008, 04:15:51 AM
Ah, Sune...my dear. Please go back and edit out the copyrighted material and only post the direct link to the page.

Thanks,

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on May 06, 2008, 01:00:04 PM
Alas, the winds of change have come rearing their ugly heads again.....
As of two nights ago, my wife and I have seperated. This seems to be a reoccuring happening in our lives. Our past has been wrought with this, and our future seems to be looking rather bleak at this point.
Despite all this, I still believe true love exists. I love her devotedly, even through all this, no matter the pain and the hurt that comes from this happening.
As our past has shown, in the future they may still be hope, and this may just be a passing thing that we may recover from, though I'm not sure that will be the case. Of course at this point everything pertaining to the future looks pretty bleak.
I see this thread has attracted more members and many people with great amounts of insight and wisdom to add to this topic. Here's to the continuation of my favorite thread on the internet. As I looked upon the new posts last night; my first time back since I started working the late shift; it still brought a great sense of peace to me as it has in the past. Keep up the good works in progress in that regard.
I say farewell for now, who knows what the future may hold for us all, but I wish all the best to all of you. Many of you have been a great inspiration.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 06, 2008, 07:41:44 PM
Hmmmmm..Copyright problem again..Sorry Nadine..I really wanted to put those writings from Oprahs' site.. with the link of course..SORRY!!!!

Thanks for your contribution Majere..Hope for the BEST though we don't know what's Best for us at the moment..!!
Life is a Mystery to human mind as it has no idea.. What's coming NEXT..next moment  and Why..why its' happening this way..
So it's all for the Faith or Trust, that all is well...
The only POWER we have is POWER to Choose...Choose Thoughts or Actions on momentary basis..
It's easy to go on Automatic Negative Self-Talk..if not choosing Thoughts Consciously at any given moment!!

Check this one too, Majere..
http://www.heavenletters.org/what-goodness-lies-around-corner.html 

http://www.aprilcrawford.com/id56.html   message from other side..
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: mikail on May 08, 2008, 12:20:10 PM
Hmm. Love truly exists. I found love with the ribs of my ribs and we are clinged together with a lovely son to show for it. We came from different countries, but you can be sure it pays off. We are in our fifth year in marriage.

As to ethnicity... I only know that love has a singular language globally and it doesn't count in terms of age, race, religion... just be free with it and you will enjoy it to full crush. I love my wife so dearly. (Lol)

Mikail
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Narnian Prince on May 08, 2008, 03:00:36 PM
Congrats, Mikail!  :)

I fully agree with you on all points.  My soul mate (Julia) and I have had an incredible 18+ years together and have two incredibly gorgeous daughters (12 and 9).  We are in what most people would refer to as an interracial marriage but we couldn't care less.  Love does indeed transcend all!  :)

Best wishes always, Mikail!  :)

Chris
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 08, 2008, 08:45:23 PM
Best wishes and good Luck for the Love of your Life..Prince and Mikail..
It's Great to see that!!
Love trancends all..That's for True!!  :)

Intersting link to learn from a Leader in his area..Collin Fry..Watch the video pl..!!

http://www.spiritsinc.co.uk/magnus_guides.html

http://www.spiritsinc.co.uk/nearer_the_light.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 11, 2008, 02:49:31 AM
Reclaming Life..Death is not the end!!



http://www.the-psychics.co.uk/james-van-praagh.htm 

http://www.the-psychics.co.uk/colin-fry.htm
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 13, 2008, 01:24:24 AM
Love Needs No Parameters

Heavenletter # 2626 Published on: February 2, 2008
http://www.heavenletters.org/love-needs-no-parameters.html

You do not need proof of love, and when you ask for it, even silently, you become like an octopus who would hold on no matter what. Do not hold on to love because love cannot be held. It can only be freed. It cannot be mandated.
As soon as you start to try to prove love, it jumps away. That is because, in asking for proof of love, you put a stranglehold on love. Love, above all, must be free to leave as well as stay.

Read more...
http://www.heavenletters.org/love-needs-no-parameters.html

There is no need to confirm or affirm anything else to the world near or far but joy. This is love. Love is not painful. Attachment can be painful. Love, never. Know the difference.
Read more..
http://www.heavenletters.org/your-own-joy.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 18, 2008, 10:38:57 AM
As I see from my last visit... this thread has become a veritable yarn. The consensus seems to be in favour of True love. And I second that.
 
Despite the ups and the downs, the highs and the lows, true love is.

Much as I appreciate the spiritual view point that Sune puts forth, I would like to keep this thread alive for the real life true love stories and celebrations it throws up. I love that. I love the fact that love is the driving force in so many lives and keeps so many people going despite the problems that crop up every once in a while.

Dear Majere,
I have read a lot of what you have written earlier and as I sit and read what you write now, I see the love. I donot know what it is that drives you two apart when you are so in love. The love, however, has conquered it earlier and may do so again.

As I said earlier, when the things are black or white, good or bad, it is easy to decide and choose. The choices become difficult if everything is good and yet that something is missing. Some people call it a spark, some call it an ubderstanding and yet others may call it sizzle or chemistry.

Being together may feel good. Being apart does not, however, deny the feeling.

It is still love. As Nicholas Sparks said in the notebook about a couple together yet apart due to Alziemer's, like day and night- forever together, always apart! The day is a reality as much as the night as much as the true love we feel. Sometimes it is 'requieted' and contented. At others it may be unrequieted and painful... true it is as long as the spark kindles in our chest!


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 18, 2008, 01:53:16 PM
It is indeed a respite or at least soul nurturing to seek spiritual love. It is so much easier to love in that spiritual, intellectual fashion (in the absence of the human nature) than to love another person and be loved by them. There are so many risks involved in human to human love, that is what makes it real.

Yes, I'm back to my theory of applied love. I just can't venture far from the thought of how good hugs feel, or a smile, a laugh, a touch...never mind the more intimate happenings.

While there are all kinds of truths in the wisdom of the desert fathers, the hermits of pre-organized religion, there is something unavailable in any other source than the human heart loving another person. (Nope, pets don't count either. That should get everyone in a row.) Love without risk, the risks that come with interactions among humans, is pretty safe. But, safe isn't how I want to live, or love.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on May 18, 2008, 04:56:53 PM
This thread has grown.  I guess it is what makes people different from animals.


I keep reading it, and thinking about it, and wondering what happened.   ;)

Happy Sunday all,

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 19, 2008, 01:38:08 AM
Yes Carrie!
Have you also realised all of us are putting forth our own view points of love. The four primary colours can give an infinite number of hues- each with its own appeal! the basic emotion of love is so real and yet so difficult to describe and define... it is a personal experience which is what makes this thread so special.
Love to all who have contributed to this thread...
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ja..smine on May 19, 2008, 10:53:04 AM
real love true - arent they just more four letter words? having said that though -i hope there is tru love for real.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 19, 2008, 01:33:34 PM
Welcome aboard! Ja..smine!
Believe me. This is a lot more than just four letter words. True love is. You will feel it inside you when you are ready for it. And once that happens... there is absolutely no doubt about it!
Enjoy your journey here.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on May 19, 2008, 01:51:46 PM
Hi Ja..smine.  There truly is true love.  I married my own true love.  We were married for 37 years when he passed away.  Life wasn't all a bed of roses, we raised five children and all the stuff that goes along with that.  To us it wasn't holding back when we were angry.  You have to communicate and have respect for each other to really know how one is feeling.  Ted and I always got what was bothering us out in the open and it worked.  True Love has it's stages, each one different, unfortunately I lost the last stage of retirement with my husband.  I have never found (not that I have been looking)anyone that I respected more than my husband, and I miss him terribly even today after sixteen years after his death.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on May 19, 2008, 01:55:15 PM
Ah Allyrose, every time you talk about him, the love just shines through.

 :D

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 20, 2008, 01:07:47 AM
This is lovely.. ;) :)

Sit back, relax, turn up your speakers and click on the graphic below...please!!

http://www.sevenwondersofyourworldmovie.com?


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: TristanNewsome on May 20, 2008, 01:41:54 AM
I belive it's real, BUT, i don't think theres just one true love. I'm youg(ish) and have found it twice so far and am on the lookout for the next, ladies?  ;D

I think live every moment for what its worth and if you find someone you connect with enjoy that.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: GypsyInk on May 20, 2008, 03:05:05 AM
At my desk, I have these words where I see them every day:

The minute I heard my first love story
I started looking for you, not knowing
how blind that was.

Lovers don't finally meet somewhere.
They're in each other all along.

We are the mirror as well as the face in it.
We are tasting the taste the minute
of eternity. We are pain
and what cures pain, both. We are
the sweet cold water and the jar that pours.

--Rumi


I long for the day my Beloved comes to me. And I will not take for granted a single moment when he does.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 20, 2008, 04:13:17 AM
GypsyInk,
That is verrrrrry beautiful!
You do't have to wait. You don't have to look, either. Love simplt happens. And it happens even when you may not be entirely open to recieving anything...

..." Lovers don't finally meet each other
They're in each other all along!"...

Live each moment fully. Love will seek you and find you.

Heard that old old song? Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket...?

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: allyrose on May 20, 2008, 10:24:10 AM
Hi Sune:  What a wonderful way to wake up in the morning, I feel so blessed to have read your post and listened to the Seven Wonders of the World.. It was beautiful.  Thank you!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on May 20, 2008, 11:39:05 AM
I have been watching this thread for some time. is there true love for real.
No...Now think about it. Why is there love? To make people want to mate and make other people. My dog Ruff falls in love when all the female dogs go into season...he falls in love with all of them; when the season for love is over, he goes back to his mates and drinks beer and swaps stories of conquest....males don't fall in love, we're horn dogs..females fall in love.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on May 20, 2008, 11:47:19 AM
females fall in love.

Yet I have yet to experience it.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on May 20, 2008, 11:59:08 AM
Ah, Shellie-bébé,
venez à Paris avec moi. Je vous montrerai l'amour sous la lune; mais seulement car un temps du shor mon cher.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on May 20, 2008, 12:04:58 PM
 ???

My french is rusty ;D

Something about Paris?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on May 20, 2008, 12:07:18 PM
Amour, amour, amour...but like my dog Ruff, only for a time.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: SteveJ on May 20, 2008, 12:07:50 PM
I shall translate for you, Shel:

Quote
venez à Paris avec moi. Je vous montrerai l'amour sous la lune; mais seulement car un temps du shor mon cher.

Dom is saying: 'Come to Paris with me. I'll be wearing armour because you're a looney.
I've got a car, temporarily, in case I need to get away from you quickly.'


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on May 20, 2008, 12:08:54 PM
Ah, true I'd certainly advise the body armour  ;D :D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on May 20, 2008, 12:11:48 PM
Nothing was said of armor, nor car....I said; come to Paris with me, and we will make love under the moon...but that love will end when the sun comes up.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: SteveJ on May 20, 2008, 12:13:35 PM
Nothing was said of armor, nor car....I said; come to Paris with me, and we will make love under the moon...but that love will end when the sun comes up...because Shellie will turn into a werewolf.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on May 20, 2008, 12:15:30 PM
I know, Dom, I was pretty sure Steve had made it up. :)

And aren't you the charmer? ;)

Steve - you're not meant to tell anyone, the werewolf thing is a secret
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on May 20, 2008, 12:17:36 PM
Steve, did you see the post your wife left for you? She want's you to pick up your four kids from school today.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: SteveJ on May 20, 2008, 12:18:35 PM
 ;D ;D

4 kids!?!? She must have bought another 3 on Ebay! ;D ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 20, 2008, 12:31:45 PM
Here we were getting all sentimental about love being true and true love being real... and suddenly we were flooded! the deluge all but drowned that mood! Anyone else want to get sentimental again?! ;)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: domenic on May 20, 2008, 12:36:57 PM
Naw, I have a head-ache...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: shellie_baby on May 20, 2008, 12:39:42 PM
Oh, sorry but I probably caused the flood, :)

I'll scoot off again then, oh and, Dom, here's some aspirin for your headache. (Probably caused by me too ;D)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 20, 2008, 07:58:33 PM
 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hi Sune:  What a wonderful way to wake up in the morning, I feel so blessed to have read your post and listened to the Seven Wonders of the World.. It was beautiful.  Thank you!!

Thanks Allyrose!!

Now think about it. Why is there love? To make people want to mate and make other people.
domenic

Is it about LOVE or SEX??  ;D ;D ;D



http://www.heavenletters.org/partnership-6260.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/safety-itself-4587.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/the-boundless-does-not-have-boundaries.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 20, 2008, 09:37:39 PM
Another hillarious file came with Email..

The Husband Store

A store that sells new husbands has just opened in "your" city, where a woman may go to choose a husband.  Among the instructions at the entrance is a description of how the store operates: You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the value of the product increase as the shopper ascends the flights. The shopper may choose any item from a particular floor, or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the building!

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband.On the first floor the sign on the door reads:
Floor 1 - These men have jobs.

The second floor sign reads:
Floor 2 - These men have jobs and love kids.

The third floor sign reads:
Floor 3 - These men have jobs, love kids, and are extremely good looking.

Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going. She goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads:
Floor 4 - These men have jobs, love kids, are drop-dead good looking and help with housework.

"Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!" Still, she goes to the fifth floor and the sign reads:
Floor 5 - These men have jobs, love kids, are drop-dead gorgeous, help with housework, and have a strong romantic personality.

She is so tempted to stay, but she goes on to the  sixth floor and the sign reads:
Floor 6 - You are visitor 31,456,012 to this Floor. There are no men on this floor.
This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please.

Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.


Wives store

To avoid gender bias charges, the store's owner also opened a New Wives Store just across the street.

The first floor has wives that love sex.
The second floor has wives that love sex and have money.

The third through sixth floors have never been visited.[/i]
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 20, 2008, 11:44:26 PM
No issues! For those who have a headache- Aspirin is still the most effective OTC. For those who want to run- where are your running shoes?

For the rest of us die-hard romantics... How is the sky in your part of the world today? Is it overcast and a mild drizzle that makes a hot coffee very welcome with your companion? Or is it bright and sunny... inviting you to venture out? Or is it night? Starry and dreamy?

I am sure there are many more ways to describe your mood and your sky...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 21, 2008, 12:58:58 AM
mmm...stary and dreamy.


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 21, 2008, 01:44:06 AM
Hi! Nadine,
Right now I'd rather be with my man than anywhere else. But real life intervenes. I am in the hospital. Working. Managing to hop to the MWC between appointments.
I'd like very much to sit in a cafe- relax and sip coffee, munch on a hot snack and some memories of the early days of our togetherness. Have you noticed that these early days are often so dreamy in quality that you want to back again?
Mmmm... I am in love... even today.
True love is...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 21, 2008, 02:03:24 AM


Life is relationships..

What else is life, if not relationships?  Could you conceive of yourself  without any relationship whatsoever?  You arise in relationship with your father, mother, brother, child, husband, education, nation, gender, home.  In fact you are relationships.  If you remove all these relationships, where are you?  


Captivation is not love, emotion is not love, attachment is not love, possession is not love.  In the moment when you discover real love, you will also discover a deep connection, you will suddenly feel connected with your parents, with your siblings, your friends and absolutely everyone in the world.  Without this connection, life is not worthy of being lived.  Love is to be discovered.  It will happen.



Read more here!!

http://www.livinginoneness.com/Life%20is%20Relationships.htm
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: GypsyInk on May 21, 2008, 09:12:13 PM
It is cold and rainy today. The lilic bushes are in bloom. The cats are curled up and sleeping in their chair. Nina Simone's velvet voice is singing from the radio. I'm making a pot of soup and baking bread. The house is warm and smells wonderful. I'm wishing my Beloved were here with me. Sometimes it is hard to not have one. But when he comes, I will delight in the simplest of things shared. Love is not only feelings, it is a choice.

I think I appreciate things much more having to wait for them. Still, I do get a little blue having to wait so long...

 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 23, 2008, 01:51:32 AM
You got it just right!

Enjoy it... love and the choice...

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Tulip on May 25, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
 
I think love shouldn’t be that hard of a concept, it’s supposed to be easy, fun, enriching, inspiring and energetic.
It’s a built-in thing, no need for complicated installation or hard to swallow philosophy trying to figure it out or understand it!
 Love is our souls.
And I’m not saying: “inside our souls”, it is our souls. You see, we are made of two elements: body and soul, the first one is originally from Earth, consists of all the minerals and materials suitable for living on Earth. And the other is a divine puff, from God who is the ultimate source of love, which makes those souls as pure, as endless, and as loving.
That’s why we all love God, either we declare it or not, because He is the source of our souls and the source of all love.
But a relationship is another thing, love is simple while relationships are quite complicated, they include so much more than love; preferences, expectations, needs… etc. And those take a lot of hard work to maintain.
A relationship is meant to be carried out by two people, and the only way to sustain a relationship is to keep working on it together, each of them on the other, it’s exhausting only if the whole job is tossed on one partner alone, but if they work on it together all the time it becomes effortless, soothing and beautiful, and you can never get enough of it.

http://amessageoflove.blogspot.com/ (http://amessageoflove.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 25, 2008, 12:16:24 PM
Tulip,
You are right, ofcourse when you say that relationships are carried by two people ( or more). And the job of keeping a relationship alive and well should be done by both.

Love is, however, what keeps the two or more people working at the relationship and weathering all the storms, if that is what is one is experiencing.

There are many 'one-sided' relatiuonships or even abusive relationships... These may still be based on love one person may feel for another- whether requieted or not. The love is. IS. Its identity gets expressed with refrence to a loved and a lover. However, love does not require the two as an entity.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 25, 2008, 12:39:32 PM
Hey Tulip,
I just saw your blog. We are on the same wavelength, are we not?!
Nice to have you over.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 25, 2008, 01:02:47 PM
hey Tulip,

Welcome back. I've missed you. Eleven posts? That can't be right. Thanks for the email.

NW,

I'm beginning to think of unrequited love much like the definition of "potential" energy and requited as "kinetic" -- call me crazy, but I just had that thought.

Nadine

PS: Now I'll go read Tulip's blog and see if I've made a fool of myself (again?).
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 25, 2008, 01:21:51 PM
Nadine,
While I could say I understand where you are coming from...  no one else can know how much pain or pleasure anyone else could be experiencing.
I would say that love is a dynamic that transforms all that it encounters. It is not potential energy but kinetic- all the way. It always transforms the lover. Sometimes, it also transforms the loved.
It is not as if it does not matter. It does. It matters what we get in response. However, that does not change love as an entity.

Tulip,
You and Nadine obviously know each other. I am reading you for the first time. Thanks. For taking this thread to another level.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Tulip on May 25, 2008, 01:44:39 PM
Quote
We are on the same wavelength

Absolutely!
 
Writing is a very strong bond. Thank you NW for your lovely words. :-*
   
All writers are emotional and spiritual by nature, we live inside out you know what I mean? Who knows about love more than a bunch of people obsessed with feelings and thoughts? ;)
         
Nadine is my friend, and I’m also a big fan of her literature. Just read Kathryn’s beach and you’ll be able to look straight into her soul and see all the purity and goodness she has.
       
I love you Nadine, you know that right? ::)
   
But you know what? The love giver can never be a fool; the fool is the one who failed to receive it or appreciate it properly.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 25, 2008, 04:06:58 PM
NW, so back to physics class for me? Nonetheless, I loved this It always transforms the lover. Sometimes, it also transforms the loved.

Tulip, I love this The love giver can never be a fool; the fool is the one who failed to receive it or appreciate it properly.

I'm glad you two have finally met.

Hugs to you both and to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Nadine


BTW, good timing, Tulip, to arrive at my doorstep this morning. I honestly did not know you referenced energy in your blog when I made that wisecrack above. Yes, I know you love me. Yes, I accept your love. Yes, I love you too. (And you too NW) This has been my hardest post-relationship weekend so far. Didn't mean to be so inside out.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 25, 2008, 06:41:51 PM
http://amessageoflove.blogspot.com/
Tulip

I read your blog post..I really love your blog.. :)
You writings about unconditional love is so beautiful and amazingly fluent in English..!!
Great job...So glad to  see you here!!!
Thank you!!!

Thanks for being good sports...all of you!! :) ;D
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 25, 2008, 11:25:23 PM
Thanks Nadine. Despite cultural differences (in India, once married, the couple is 'taken' for seven lifetimes!Seven lifetimes is all of eternity), we are quite on the same wavelength. I will repeat myself and say- when you want something, be like a child. Ask for it. Not a brat who throws a tantrum but a child who knows (s)he is loved. We would love to be understood without having to ask. This does not, however, happen as often as we would like it to.
Tulip,
Hope to see more of you around. Check out my (still a baby) blog on the love I have seen in my family- my grandparents... I know IT IS.

  incontinentpen.blogspot.com  (http://incontinentpen.blogspot.com)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: noelgama on May 26, 2008, 12:45:31 AM
'I still haven't found, what I'm looking for...' and that's fine, otherwise the Romance writing industry will crash!

Noel
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 26, 2008, 02:02:07 AM
If you are looking for something specific, it eludes you!  ;)
Try to let it happen. You will be surprised at all that CAN happen if you only let it!

 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: noelgama on May 26, 2008, 02:19:50 AM
Wish I knew what I'm looking for, exactly... perhaps I have it already? If yes, then love is not blind - love blinds... the recipient.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Tulip on May 26, 2008, 04:16:19 AM
WOW NW!!
Your daughter is really impressive masha'llah! I'd love to meet her sometime.
Odissi, is it?

She is really an angle, you must have done a wonderful job.

Thank you Sune that's really sweet of you ::) you're too kind! I'm already blushed!! HEHE..  

Thank you Nadine honey for your hugs, I needed that! :D :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 26, 2008, 04:45:37 AM
Thanks Tulip!
For amoment I was wondering where had I written about my daughter! You read the blog? She is awesome!  :) :) This is one proud mama here.  8)

Thanks,
again...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 27, 2008, 12:55:05 AM
I still believe...



Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Tulip on May 27, 2008, 02:43:47 AM
Cheer up then, the test is over and you've passed successfully!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: GypsyInk on May 27, 2008, 03:39:52 PM
You that love lovers,
this is your home. Welcome!
In the midst of making form, love
made this form that melts form,
with love for the door,
soul the vestibule.
--Rumi


I wanted to thank you all for the blessings that your words have been to me. A balm for my soul, you are!
I read those lines above last night and thought of the wonderful gathering of souls on this thread. You each have opened doors into my heart and I am infinitely grateful to have met you all.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on May 27, 2008, 07:19:17 PM
Gypsylink.. You are a child of God/ Source.. and you're Love..!!
There's no one to blame ...We learn to look at ourselves to find answers.. as all answers are within us!!
Breath deeply and connect with the living source within you consciously....ask..and you'll get answers!!

Check this link too..
http://www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=13659.0


Thanks  tulip..I really love your site..
Nadine ..i'm glad you BELIEVE..Actually, You Know..!!
NW..Good job doing that blog..Oh, lot to read..well done!!

Thanks for being here everyone..You all are GREAT!! ;) :) :-*
Love
sune


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 28, 2008, 02:33:43 PM
Nadine,
Ofcourse you believe! Love is in every breath you take.

Tulip,
Sometimes the circumstances we are thrown into DO seem quite testing. And when we come out... we are ecstatic at what we have managed to do!

Sune,
Thanks!
Did you specifically read "Till death did them part..." That is the true story of my grandparents. I have first hand seen the love I speak of!
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on May 28, 2008, 02:37:53 PM
Naturewalker,
I wish I knew what it was that continues to plague our relationship. The only thing I can come up with is old resentments still clung to out of fear for the future.
To All,
The future, to me is a certainity, not a specific certainity, but it is certain nonetheless that there will be a future. Whether or not she and I share it together, is the uncertainity. I walk forward with or without her either way. In doing so, I learn more about myself, and hope she does the same.
This, from my experience, is the true burden of love whether it be true or fleeting, that two people so in love, can so easily and suddenly fall out of love. The fact that love exists has been evidenced time and again in this thread. Unfortunately I  feel that we do not have any control over who we love, and how long we get to love and share that love with these people. The fact that it takes two to make a romance work means that both parties have to be equally involved. If one fails the whole fails.
Now this does not mean that I perceive my love for my wife, or her love for me as having failed, but it is yet again in a time of .....what.......repose?? That she loves me I have no doubts, nor do I doubt my love for her. I just think she needs a time away from this to find herself and her true feelings. Looking back through our past this has always been the case, and given time, who knows, we could be in each others embraces again. For me there is no hesitance when asked how I feel or what I wish. For her, the same can not be said, there is hesitancy and reluctance in her eyes before an answer is even forthcoming. As has been said many times, even in this thread, the eyes are gateways.....possibly to the soul, but needless.....I know my wife, and her eyes speak what her mouth does not...and her actions tell me more than she does......She can be a very contradictory person....I sense the inner turmoil in her and understand she is going through a very rough time in her life. I beg with her to let me in and help her, but adamant as she is , this is something she needs to find for herself. My prying and pressure won't help, and of course it is my own manipulations to fix problems that might better be left alone by me....else it is just me getting what I want, and that is a bit selfish on my part.
Though I can't and don't always practice these myself, perhaps I can share some advice for others to learn from, and please remember, it is just advice, take it or don't but learn from it what any of you may..
1.  Always make sure your other half knows you appreciate and love them. There is never another better time to say and show what you feel than the present. If left to a later time..it may be too late...
2. Thank the other half as often as possible. We must remember that the phrase "thank you" is often taken for granted, and that we as people often get wrapped up in our own lives to remember the others involved. We're not always the easiest people to get along with.
3. Always say what you mean, and mean what you say. It is better to be understood and earnest when saying something that means a great deal to you. It helps to create less confusion. also, if you really don't mean it, don't say it. It's pointless to hurt someone that is supportive of you that you are swearing you love. Kinda defeats the whole purpose.
4. Always, Always, make time for each other. Even if it is just a few minutes, the time together can help. There is no better time to do something than now....later may be (am I repeating myself here) to late....If they are as important to you as you tell them....the time is well spent, all else can wait.
5. Don't let your finances control your dedication, or show your love and appreciation. Attributing dollar signs for love is often misinterpretedand misleading. Love should be given, not bought. It should come from the heart, not the brain, and certainly doesn't come with a routing number. To equivocate the two is to make the mistake of putting a term on your love life...the term being your own bankruptcy for when that is gone....your heart may not be enough to keep the other person there.
6. The little things often speak the loudest. I have tried the grand schemes and the little things, and more often than not, the little things have the best success. The rings, the gifts, they were all nicely received....but the flowers delivered by my youngest son, the gifts made at home ....they have lasted, where the others have been neatly put away.....The heart shows more than the brain ever could....the brain is too busy thinking, while the heart is just feeling....too many thoughts, not enough feelings= too many distractions from the truth, or suspicions about the cause.
7. Talk. Yes, talk to your mate......Don't talk down to them, and certainly try not to yell....both are condescending and degrading.......ask yourself if you would appreciate bein spoken to in either fashion and I can almost promise your answer is no, so why should anyone else?? Put all the strife and bs away and talk about what the two of you really want to talk about....get back to the communicating that brought the two of you together in the first place.
I hate to end this on an odd number, but 7 is a reltively "lucky" number, and considered in some places to be "holy" or "magical" and to be honest, I've run out of things to add.
I can remember a point in time when there qewre only 12 pages to this thread....to see it has grown this far....is yet again more evidence that true love does exist, even it is just a true love for writing, communicating, or sharing our thoughts and ideals with one another, or the true love we feel that has eluded us, or....and this is a stretch....the true love that keeps bringing us together, even for just a little while.
                         With great regards and TRUE love for you all;
                                                      Majere26
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 28, 2008, 03:00:04 PM
Majere26,
I think you have said all that needs to be said... All that I want to add is- Never do anything to your mate, friend, child or anybody who means anything at all to you that you would not be able to accept.

Always remember that it feels nice to be told what is obvious, too. I love you. I am sorry. Thank you.  These are not empty words. They carry a lot more emotion than can be ascribed to so few words as these.

What we do for our love is what we choose to do. It feels good to be accepted and appreciated. THAT appreciation would be the measure of the other's love for us. WE MUST NOT MISTAKE THAT AS OUR SUCCESS OR OUR FAILURE.

Love nurtures and endures. It may or may not last. Either way- it continues to be true if it ignites ANY feeling in our being.

I must add, Majere, you are particularly sensitive and accepting. The depth of your love is in the absence of expectation. You may want but do not expect that to be the logical conclusion... that makes you content to love and... POSSIBLY... recieve love in return.
That is a great feeling. Utterly sure. Completely secure. Future cannot be anything but what is good for all.

LOL,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: GypsyInk on May 28, 2008, 11:08:53 PM
The words that enlighten the soul are more precious than jewels. --Hazrat Inayat Khan

Quote
The depth of your love is in the absence of expectation.
That is the truest measure of love, isn't it? To give without expectation of receiving anything in return.

I found many jewels here, thank you my Darlings! Blessings to you all.

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 28, 2008, 11:59:17 PM
GypsyInk
Thanks.

Majere,
Quote
and understand she is going through a very rough time in her life. I beg with her to let me in and help her, but adamant as she is , this is something she needs to find for herself. My prying and pressure won't help, and of course it is my own manipulations to fix problems that might better be left alone by me....

Sometimes, we need to just BE there. Not offer solutions. Not offer remedies. When we love someone, this is difficult- very difficult. How can we let someone we love hurt when we see an easy way out?! The time for solutions comes a little later, however. It comes when the person going through the troubled time has had the satisfaction of venting. Usually, it is us women who need to vent and the 'protective' male mate that wants to offer solutions. The perspective is quite different. One is GOING THROUGH it. And the other is WITNESSING someone going through it!
All the best.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Tulip on May 29, 2008, 03:39:36 AM
Wow! Majere 26!
That was.... rather hurtful!
Isn't it funny how people can ignore such little gestures because they’re "too little" and maybe not effective, while those are everything one would want from them?!
You say little things like:
Quote
flowers delivered by my youngest son, the gifts made at home

try: closing the AC if they're cold, meeting them with a smile, asking them about their day if they seem a little blue..... try tiny things not even little.. but they're still been neglected!
Of your seven rules if we tested couples - especially men - after maybe 10 years of marriage, how do you think they would score? Not that they've lost the love, because they usually don't, on the contrary, their love is maybe much stronger, but because they think that those little things are not needed any more.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on May 29, 2008, 05:45:52 AM
Quote
Not that they've lost the love, because they usually don't, on the contrary, their love is maybe much stronger, but because they think that those little things are not needed any more.

Actually, they do not notice the 'little things' because these become so much a part of their lifescape. How many of us, for instance observe our own breathing. We also never miss a really good thing untill its gone. The light in the refrigerator syndrome?

LOL,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on May 29, 2008, 01:17:31 PM
I'm rarely short on the attempts on the little things. I try every day to express what I feel as often as possible. The effort using my son as the delivery boy was just a more recent example.  Am I impervious to this exception? Not at all. I have lapsed in my efforts just as much as the next guy. It is the mistakes we make, that I at least, learn from; and a life without learning , again in my opinion, is a wasted life.
The real matter is; how do you continue to express when the other is beyond, or unwilling to receive what you express? At some point we have all felt both sides of this spectrum. I however, am not one to give up easily. To recognize that I just need to give her the space she asks, and honor her wishes is perhaps the hardest part for me. Begrudgingly I will abide by this, but as has been stated, it is very difficult for me to stand idly by as she suffers and hurts. I have much at stake in this, what with the kids and the feelings I have for her. As a mechanic and all around tradesman, it is increasingly difficult for me to not want to solve, or help in solving this issue, it just comes naturally to me. Nevertheless I find myself sidestepping my nature and as I must to let her sort through this herself in the hopes that she may miss what she had, and long to once again have it. Again, another torment I must endure against my own wishes and hopes.
I learn more with every passing day what strengths I possess and thought was uncapable of. I continue to push my own predetermined limits of my own endurance to handle this situation. Whether or not we pass each other by, or reswume where we left off, there is a life that must continue along its course, nay, two lives. 
So despite my own hopes and wishes this is something we both must endure, to what ever end or purpose. 
Once again, thank you all for your input and comments.
It is a measure of our own abilities to find ourselves surviving what we feel are our worst sufferings, and survive I most certainly will.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on May 30, 2008, 02:47:00 AM
Marjere,

Your list makes all the difference in the world to most of us. I know those things were a deciding factor when recently asked if I wanted to reconsider the situation that my spouse set in motion. "No, I think we should not reconsider." Even if the right things are finally done, there is the thing of too little, too late.

It is the little things that get us (me, in this case) through the difficult times. The adoring look. The smile that is reserved just for one's lover. The touch of affection without the expectation of physical arousal. All the things opposite of taking for granted or done to gain something. It isn't only the things given but the losses required, yet unnoticed. Appreciation and affection are important, but can't be seasonal.

The things that matter say, "I thought of you when..." It is more than saying or buying gifts. It is the things that mean, "I want to spend every moment of my life with you and I want it to be a very long life," and making it a life that the other person can feel the exact same way. IMO

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on May 31, 2008, 06:13:30 PM
Hello there ollie. Nice to see you're still here... are you still here?

 Re: is there true love for real...?

I knew I had to report this to the  folks here  in the coffee shop because of  it's appropriateness to this thread
Yesterday I still had a few more things to pick up from the No Frills supermarket up the street so I hastily set out before the predicted showers hit.
'Lots of city noise, service trucks [lorries] and other civilian traffic, more than normal it appeared to me.
I love the challenge, and as usual ,timed my launch from curbside to coincide with  one of those narrow windows of opportunity and bounded to the other side of the street. Call me foolish but it probably stave's of old-foggyizm.
Having only walked north for thirty yards of so, I noticed flapping of wings about dead center of the road.It looked like a bird but something about it's shape that seemed off. It indeed was a bird, but more correctly, two birds. Vehicles swished by every second or two ... tires making that sizzley distracting sound.
It was difficult to get the real picture since the passing cars gave a strobe-like  effect ...

.'scuse me a moment folks, while I make the trip to the kitchen to  work on my second cuppa.
... I'm back. Ya, so I'm straining for a look at this wounded bird [as I decided]. But it's more than meerts the eye.I it took me  almost three seconds to get the accurate picture;[Don't know if glasses would have made it any quicker or if it mattered or if time itself mattered for the projected outcome. Regardless it was one of those occasions when you wish you brought your video cam.
Many adventurers haver coursed unforgiving rivers and endured harrowing travel conditions in trekking to the heart of the Amazon, or the dark continent to capture on film the living habits  and something of the essence of a wild creatures  perspective on life. I watch those Saturday afternoon docs and am intrigued myself with the subject.
Torn between the fear of the inherent danger and a stubborn refusal to accept the torments which life seems all to willing to throw our way, this lowly, pallidly colored common sparrow, challenged death in trying to roust it's lifeless partner from the reapers claws.
I imagined the pair darting out across the road - flying too low
One was caught in traffic and the other circling back to help. The life and death drama continued as he or she fought the impulse to fly to safety. I too fought an impulse and decided like the Arab leader [Anthony Quinn] in Lawrence of Arabia, who responded to a stinging sacrificial murder/execution. "It was written then"...  I made the decision to go about my business. Forty eight minutes later I uncomfortably approached the patch of road where this drama had unfolded. Had a miracle from God occurred? 'Must have something happened. No birds, no sign of death, dry road ... gone!
Had this partner only been stunned by a windshield? Had the efforts and sacrificial "concern"of the other  payed off? And of course ... as conclusive as I could wanna get with a rhetorical question ...
Does true love exist in the animal kingdom? 

something to ponder see carriesheppard's post No. 431

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on June 01, 2008, 09:09:56 AM
amazing story dyno - that the birds had gone when you returned.  I've seen sparrows stay by the bodies of their deceased partner - but I didn't know that sparrows were such dedicated little birds.  Swans, I heard, yes.  Some geese and all sorts of other birds, I never knew about sparrows. 

I'm not sure with animals and birds if it's love.  There's this weird lizard thing in australia that walks real slow and mates for life, but spends most of its life apart from it's chosen partner except at mating time.  Is this love?  Well, I know we humans love to anthropomorphise - but I don't know.

Did anyone watch the 'Monkey Business' series about the ape rescue centre in Dorset?  One of the chimps, called Sally, just loved mothering.  She was the 'nanny' for all the orphans, would be so gentle and careful welcoming new baby chimps in and yet what she showed wasn't just a nurturing instinct, it was a care and concern and lessons learned in how to handle the newbies.  And to keep the not so newbies (cheeky little mites) in control too. 

Yes, apes are far closer to us on the scale than sparrows, and certainly instinct takes different paths in different creatures, but what we see and interpret as love, may not always be so.  That is probably true with some humans too.

I do believe in love, I think 'true love' is how you choose to interpret it.

Enough of my musings.  If I'm not careful I'll rush off and write a love song.  And that would be VERY unusual for me.

Carrie

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on June 01, 2008, 01:19:23 PM
Funny but true Carrie that we superimpose the human template over the animal kingdom in drama and pathos. Hollywood, [read  Disney productions] makes a good living at it .

How about the reversal? The indigenous peoples around the world, especially here in North America,somewhat fancifully by my reflection on it, have installed the  character of animals into the art of explaining origins of life. A good example is the legend of the beginning of the Heida Indians on the west coast of Canada.

It was told that an eagle  one day found a clam washed up on shore and discovered upon prying it open, an entire race of people contained in miniature inside. Sensing the importance of his discovery the eagle brought the Heida to dry land and dedicated himself to being his overseer and guardian.
The eagle and the raven are the two principal camps of peoples.  Nature has always factored large in the development of the explanation of life.  Spirituality  (in general), seems to hangs it's hat on the mysteriously organized free form patterns of the wild things here on the third rock from the sun.

Questions like ... I wonder if my dog really does love me?
or, will Fuffy be with me in Heaven Mummy? continues to be on the hearts of those who attach importance to these thoughts. We who write, apply our paints from the same paint box as the rest of society. We are just fortunate to be able to find more colors than average. Do I love nature?
I might ask the question does nature love me? Then I might look to the heavens and say ...God only knows.

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: hismask on June 01, 2008, 04:30:34 PM
A year ago, I would have told you I don't believe in true love, or fate, or predestination. I would have said I make my own destiny.

But, I met someone in the span of the last year. I was having a discussion online about an English paper I was writing for my 101 professor. It was about gay rights. A man popped into the conversation to drop in his opinion, and we got into a rather passionate debate about our differing viewpoints.

After talking for a week via chat, I gave him my email. I dont do this often, but Im glad I did. We ended up spending hours emailing and chatting back and forth, talking about EVERYTHING, from politics to religion to ourselves.

A few months passed, and we realized how much the emails were meaning to us, and that we were falling for one another. When it was right, we said 'i love you'.

That was a lot of months ago. We've written over 500 emails, all 8+ pages in length. We talk daily, both online and sometimes on the phone. But here's the catch. Im in the USA. He's in India. But never has anything seemed so right...and one day, in the next year or so, we intend on finding a way to be together. They say that love can overcome all obstacles. We've overcame quite a few already...the distance is the only thing between us. And while I long for his touch, and to have him close to me... it is only another challenge, and I am truly happy.

I would call that true love. We have the sort of closeness where no words are necessary. Where, over all the distance, we still share a bond deeper and more intimate than any I could have fathomed. We are perfect for one another (though surely not perfect!), and we truly complete and compliment one another. Is that true love? Yes...I think it is. I have no doubt of it, just as I don't doubt that, in the end, we'll be together.

People say an internet relationship cant be real, but it is. It can be, when you truly know one another. Am I careful? Yes. I dont trust very easily. But sometimes, there are good people where you least expect to find them.

So yes...I believe in true love now. 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on June 01, 2008, 04:56:34 PM
That's great, Hismask.  Wonderful that you have found someone you can share your heart with.  Love will find a way, they say.

I know people say 'check, make sure, be careful' when you meet someone 'virtually', and I bet you did all that in the early days.  Now you have the delight of learning each other through the written word (and spoken too, I hope).  I bet the MWC crowd could show Cyrano de Bergerac a thing or two!

I am happy for you. 

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: hismask on June 01, 2008, 06:00:28 PM
That's great, Hismask.  Wonderful that you have found someone you can share your heart with.  Love will find a way, they say.

I know people say 'check, make sure, be careful' when you meet someone 'virtually', and I bet you did all that in the early days.  Now you have the delight of learning each other through the written word (and spoken too, I hope).  I bet the MWC crowd could show Cyrano de Bergerac a thing or two!

I am happy for you. 

Carrie

Carrie-
  I was indeed careful. Extremely cautious, in fact. I'm happy to say (and lucky), that I've found a wonderful man. We have the joy of knowing and sharing ourselves with one another through words (online and letters...how I cherish those), and spoken, when we can afford it. International calls are expensive haha.
  Lucky for me, his english is excellent.  ;D
All the best,
  Jessica
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on June 13, 2008, 02:14:00 PM
Love has a way of happening when you least expect and striking when you are the least prepared for it. I wish you well. But as Carrie says... tread carefully. There are all kinds of people in the world. You should be sure of what you are doing and who you are with.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on June 18, 2008, 01:56:13 AM
hismask,..I only say...Listen to your HEART..Your INNER  VOICE....The Soft voice within you when you are in happy , calm, cool, peaceful or meditative mood..
If your Heart agrees with that..you feel GREAT.. that's the ultimate compass in life!!
Good Luck!!
sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on June 18, 2008, 01:59:51 AM
Permanent Link: http://www.heavenletters.org/be-your-own-prince.html

Be your own best friend, prince or princess..!!

Be Your Own Prince, June 16, 2008

God said:
Beloveds, rally round yourselves. Be your own best friend. Give yourself all the support you wish others would give to you. Whose opinion really matters but yours and Mine?
It seems to me that if you had friends who were the way you see yourself, you would stay away from them. You may be a good friend to others, but you haven't been much of a friend to yourself. Always backbiting. Second-guessing. Why, you nip at your own heels! You make endless suggestions on how you could be better or richer or smarter. Never satisfied, you harp on improving yourself. You are never satisfied. No matter what you do and how hard you try, you tend to be displeased with your personality and character and appearance and a sundry list of faults you have inundated yourself with. You point out one flaw after another. What kind of a friend is that?
One thing you can really improve on is to start befriending yourself. Will you be a true friend, a real friend, instead of a so-called friend who wants to turn you into someone quite different, even someone else? Be the kind of friend who likes you just as you are right now, a friend who does not constantly harp on how you can be thinner, exercise more and eat less, read more or read less, be neater or less neat. In other words, a friend that is fun and enlivening to be with. A friend you want to spend time with, a friend who has a good opinion of you, even thinks highly of you.
You will admit, won't you, that you have had a hard time favoring yourself? You've had a hard time thinking much of yourself. Beloveds, how can I convince you to be more than your own stepchild, someone to put down at every turn? Be your own fairy godmother. At least, cease from being your own wicked stepmother. No longer treat yourself like Cinderella in the ashes. If you must be Cinderella, then be Cinderella who has already been rescued by the prince.
If you truly do want to benefit yourself, start looking at yourself differently. You have been a harridan when it comes to yourself. Could you become a handmaiden or a courteous valet, or the kind of waitress who serves you well?
I adjure you to become friendly and faithful to yourself. Be your own best friend. Be true to yourself. Have some regard. Pat yourself on the back. Give yourself some cheer.
The more you favor yourself, the more you will favor others. The more you fault yourself, the more you fault others.
Beloveds, nobody likes a crab. Not even you do. Don't put up with it.
Never mind your faults or anyone else's. Stop being down on yourself, as if you don't amount to much. How can you be My child and not be worthy? You certainly have been at fault in faulting yourself. Beginning now, star the good features. That is all you have to do. Immediately, that will improve you.
It is not so much that you need praise. For sure, you don't need criticism. You have had enough criticism to last a lifetime. You can use some appreciation, and you are the one to give it to yourself. Go to bat for yourself. Enough undermining. Even a modicum of self-recognition will light a fire under you. All the energy you will have because you are little nicer to yourself!
Think of what can happen when you are a lot nicer to yourself. Think of how nice and appreciative you will be of others. You may even turn the tide of the world, simply by regarding yourself in the light I see you in.


Permanent Link: http://www.heavenletters.org/be-your-own-prince.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: GypsyInk on June 19, 2008, 06:16:51 PM
I've been thinking what a double-edged sword passion is. How it balances precariously between unimaginable bliss and unspeakable torment. Such incredible gifts and such bitter costs. Is it true that it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

I am amazed at how deeply one can hurt and still breathe, still maintain a heartbeat. Strength of character or strength of spirit? Or just pure instinctual reflex?

True love is real. Maybe the question should be is there a true love for everyone? I do not believe there is, though I wish I could convince myself there was. I don't know if it is fate or luck or chance that brings such love to one person and not another. I am certain one cannot earn love. There are many people that deserve true love and have not been blessed by it. Why is it given to some and not others? Who is it that decides which of us will have it or not?

Some people believe we choose the path we are on before we come into this life. If that is true, why would someone willing choose not to be loved? What purpose would that serve? Too suffer so much for what lesson?
Title: Wh
Post by: alec on June 19, 2008, 08:00:34 PM
Quote
Is it true that it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

There's no way to credibly argue one way or another.

Quote
I am amazed at how deeply one can hurt and still breathe

I am not amazed at the fact that people carry on. People have lived under the worst conditions - worse than we can imagine - but they have lived. They have lived. What is their other choice? Their choice is that they live in hardship or they die. It's not a choice, people persevere.

Quote
True love is real.

Again, there's no way to argue one way or another.

Too subjective.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on June 20, 2008, 12:31:03 AM
GypsyInk,

In some ways, I would say you can read my thoughts. However, even at this point in my life, I have to say that most days (increasingly more often) I do believe that there is true love and that, while the timing can be maddening, there is true love for everyone.

Pages back I mentioned my husband's aunt. While she married again two years ago after years of very difficult and painful events, she and her new hubby are the cutest couple ever. In many ways, they are like young people in love. I think the maturity of being in their seventies hasn't hurt either, but...it just goes to point out that, given enough time, there is great happiness in love (for everyone).

I find myself in a strange situation where my husband of 22 yrs ask for a divorce and is now rethinking his request. At the same time people at work are asking if I would date again. Of course, we are still getting a divorce, and of course I still think that there is a possibility of being swept off my feet again (by someone else).

I think that one person can feel fulfilled and loving without being in a relationship, and I think that two people can share a fulfilling, dizzy sense of love.

I don't think we chose not to be loved and it becomes a done deal. I think what everyone wants is to love and be loved. When two people share that desire honestly and openly, it happens.

I think you've asked good questions and are hurting deeply. Maybe early on parents have not exercised their ability to love their child, so we find it familiar to link up with a partner who affirms what we have experienced previously from our parents. That is probably my situation, but it doesn't have to be that way the next time.

Just because a specific person or several key people have been unable to love you, doesn't mean you are unlovable. Believe, even when the feelings don't support it. You are lovable.
Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on June 20, 2008, 04:08:49 AM
GypsyInk, Nadine,
True love is real. We are often mistaken in reading it or understanding it. Largely our disappointment originates in our expectations which may be more than we are recieving or in our inability to recieve gracefully what we do recieve.
Undoubtedly, we all love to be cuddled and told various things at various times in our lives. As surely, we may fail to get what we want WHEN we want it. We, however, notice only what we donot have or get and hardly ever appreciate what we do have.
If you want something from your beloved, it may be as simple as just an asking away.
Pain is natural and things hurt more because we love rather than because the other does not! Think for a moment whether walking on the road, we would feel the same pain or anguish or anger for someone who does not conform to our expectation of a given behaviour? Even when we do, the feeling are fleeting and momentary and not as lasting as those that we feel when the same are directed at those we love dearly.

Quote
I find myself in a strange situation where my husband of 22 yrs ask for a divorce and is now rethinking his request. At the same time people at work are asking if I would date again. Of course, we are still getting a divorce, and of course I still think that there is a possibility of being swept off my feet again (by someone else).
I do wish, the diehard romantic that I am, that you rediscover the magic that once brought you together! It may or may not happen. When you look back on these years, you may find more love here than you appreciated while you are together! Sometimes when I implore my husband to do more, he replies that the love he feels for me is deep and deeper the waters, more still the surface.Even tough it is highly dissatisfying to not recieve what I want, I know, I would not like to let go!

Quote
I've been thinking what a double-edged sword passion is. How it balances precariously between unimaginable bliss and unspeakable torment. Such incredible gifts and such bitter costs. Is it true that it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

Are you willing to risk having to experience 'unspeakable torment' while wanting to experience 'unimaginable bliss'? Anyone who has experienced that bliss even for a moment will willingly take that risk.
People often have different ways in which they express their love or even hide it. When we are sure of how we feel, we have to be equally sure of the language in which the other is expressing theirs, too.
This does not replace the pleasure of recieving expressions of love... it only makes it easier to go through the periods when such expressions are not forthcoming.
LOL,NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on June 21, 2008, 02:02:49 AM
Yes, indeed my expectations are high. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not settling any longer. I'm not making excuses for a relationship that doesn't ooze out of the cracks and rejuvenated constantly. I'm not willing to say that an abstract sense of love within myself or "knowing" I'm loved by another is enough. I want to feel loved and I want to feel loving. I want love to be a verb, not a noun.

*smiles* You, Naturewalker, and Cathy C are undying and somewhat relentless in the desire for us to stay together. The most loving thing we can do is to admit that though we do not fight or are harsh with each other, setting each other free is our finest act of loving each other and our children.

I am not going to ask for someone to demonstrate their love for me. I rather have someone who cannot help but demonstrate loving me. And, someone who can accept me being absolutely nuts about them. Yes, I want to know I'm loved; yes, I want to have a sense of soul identification with another person (soul mate); yes, I want my rational brain to know I'm loved; and yes, I want each of my five senses to experience that love. I want love to be kinetic. I believe all of this is possible and will accept nothing less.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on June 22, 2008, 04:34:55 AM
Yes, indeed my expectations are high. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not settling any longer. I'm not making excuses for a relationship that doesn't ooze out of the cracks and rejuvenated constantly. I'm not willing to say that an abstract sense of love within myself or "knowing" I'm loved by another is enough. I want to feel loved and I want to feel loving. I want love to be a verb, not a noun.

As I said- Ofcourse, this feels good. Sometimes you may have to ask for it because we all love using our own languages. The depth of our love is also in trying to understand each other's language. SOMETIMES. Not all the time. I do, too! You know it!! ( Don't you?

*smiles* You, Naturewalker, and Cathy C are undying and somewhat relentless in the desire for us to stay together. The most loving thing we can do is to admit that though we do not fight or are harsh with each other, setting each other free is our finest act of loving each other and our children.
Accepted.

I am not going to ask for someone to demonstrate their love for me. I rather have someone who cannot help but demonstrate loving me.

Ditto! ;) The rest it, too.Only... I am willing to ask for it SOME OF THE TIME BECAUSE I LOVE MY LOVE and believe it is possible to do that!

(((((((()))))))) LOL,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on June 22, 2008, 10:17:41 PM
Nadine, It's your decision, your creation and your dream..You know, You can create or have anything in this
Quantum reality NOW..without worriying about past  experiences...Life is NOW!!
When you put your mind into "What you really want" Quantum/ fluid reality is changing to make it so..!!
I salute you for your courage and determination.

As I think,  it is up to the individual to make decisions for their own life process..and it can be anything..as they want.!!
Listening to the Heart or Inner Voice or Inner Coach is the way to go!!
All the Best!!

New movie..LEAP is coming..This is the trailer..It's a eye opening movie!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCQZ4xJuTWg&eurl=http://blog.mrfire.com/

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 22, 2008, 10:34:16 PM
Aloha Everyone,
Glad that I found this site.  Lots of insights good and bad, but still valuable.  Sorry to break in on you all.
I've not read this whole thread yet, but hope that some can illumine me.  I just made 55 years and my income for retirement is more than adequate if I choose to.  There's a nice savings account and the house is nearly paid off.  My adult children are pretty much on their own and doing well.  I left my wife once, 12 years ago for an old girl friend and it was a disaster.  I dropped her, but did not want to go back to my marriage.  My kids were teens then and they began getting into all sorts of trouble, so I went back.  Since then all is well as can be expected and my spouse has pretty much worked out her bad moments and habits (but some things still irk me).  I love my wife and she is dear to me, but I've never really had a real passion for her.  We're just really good friends and work together well.
Here's my problem:  I've known a younger woman for a couple of years and lately we've been doing more together in and outside of work.  When I first met her, a little voice told me to be careful cause I could fall in love with that kind of woman.  She's not beautiful, but is cute, adorable and very independent.  Any way as we got to know each other the more I now look forward to speaking with her cause she's so intelligent and warm.  We are good friends and correspond frequently by email.  Slowly over the last few weeks I began thinking of her more and more to the point that I could not focus on things for very long.  One morning we met before work and I told her what was happening to me.  That I had lost my "common sense".  That I "felt like a teenager with a crush."  She said that she was flattered, but what about your wife?  I told her the true, but short story and she mentioned that she was in a relationship (she's divorced with two teen daughters).  Anyway she was able to talk with me and I told her to tell me something "gross" about yourself, so I could get turned off.  She jokes now and then and says she'll think of something, but I'm still waiting.  I didn't chat with her for a few days, until she sent me an email, to "don't be a stranger."  So, I'm trying to re-establish our usual friendship, but sometimes I have a hard time looking into her eyes.  She's kind of popular, but rarely tells people details of her private life.  But she continues to tell me lots of it in person and via email.  I'm still baffled as to why I have this feeling for her.
I checked our Chinese and Astrological signs just to find something.  Turns out that we are a near perfect match.  Is there something to this?  Anyone, let me know.  If I continue to be pre-occupied, my wife will eventually figure it out and kick me out or leave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on June 23, 2008, 12:36:01 AM
lieloha my friend, I see a crouching tiger situation in what you describe. Self containment  in a relationship is a fog that you can't see through I would suggest.
There is nothing in what you have said which leads me to believe the astrologically aligned one, is  looking for, or is desiring an undying commitment in a relationship. Like she says ...she's flattered but that's all she can tell you. No I'd trust my gut and trade in the fireworks for a chance to make your former commitment a winning deal.
It's tough swimming upstream when the rest of us are going downstream. Over fifty percent ... I think it's closer to 2/3 rds of marriages go down the toilet.
Your wife it seems sees the value of going upstream - why not just make a conscious decision and take her hand. The garden supplies the food but we need to weed and hoe the earth around it.
It can develop into a deeper love in the long run.
I'd have to also add since I'm a practicing Christian that prayer is a very healthy direction to put our energies to.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 23, 2008, 12:56:53 AM
Dynodreamer, thanks for your concern.  My wife and I are very different in temperment and knowledge.  I did my duty, worked hard and raised a good family.  Now that I have everything, there's is still the nagging feeling - is there a great love out there for me?  Maybe I'm just a bit of a romantic or a bit too sensitive.  I've spent much time with family who are devout buddhists,  worshipped Jesus in my youth, learned valuable aspects of Hawaiian beliefs and even studied with a Guru for a couple of years (he told me to go live in the real world).  I've learned many aspects of love, but have never been stricken like this.  Some say I am looking for God or can see God in others and that may be true, but it doesn't help the quandary that I'm in.  I wish that I could venture and see if this relationship would work.  Perhaps the passage of time will help, but I could never forget her?  What to do?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on June 23, 2008, 01:39:12 AM
I guess it doesn't help to say that I wouldn't want your problem.At the home front today my testosterone levels are evening out quite nicely these days.['Not suggestng that your situation is strictly physical mind you.]
I 've had a wife who divorced me  in the early years. I played the hippy when I had a perfectly fine woman at home. I hate that kind of pain. It follows you around for years.
Good to know that God (although impotent in some peoples eyes) helps us in these times.

You seem like a real decent sort of guy. I  promise I'll offer up a serious prayer to the Lord for your situation.It's the most I can do.
One thing you can be sure of if you have leanings toward the spiritual.
"ALL THINGS WORK OUT FOR OUR GOOD IF WE LEAN INTO GOD."
Yes I believe time will afford some answers but it seems like you must work with this woman by the sound of it. If that's the case there's not a lot of away time to stand back and reflect on the scene.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on June 23, 2008, 01:47:22 AM
Sorry to sound so cruel. It sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too. What about your wife, does she just sit around burning her good years until you decide if you want her or not?

Obviously the woman at work has said she is not available. She seems to want to continue your friendship, which might not be something you are able or willing to do. She has said no, so might as well turn this into a work relationship, if you can.

Is there great love for you? Probably. But, you either have to find it with the one you are with or free both of you before you look elsewhere. Tough love ain't pretty, but there it is.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 23, 2008, 02:06:37 AM
Hi Nadine,  of course you're right.  Should I settle into the twilight years?  Do I give up the search?  Are we meant to stay with someone for a lifetime?  Do relations run their course without hate or bitterness?  I guess it took me till now to realize these questions (concretely).
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on June 23, 2008, 04:18:30 AM
Quote
Do I give up the search?


It is unlikely to result from SEARCH. Love has a way of happening when you least expect it. When you are actively trying to hold on to it it slips out of your fingers like sand and the tighter you hold the faster it slips out.

Quote
Are we meant to stay with someone for a lifetime?


Some may be and some not. It is strange how much you are willing to invest in LOOKING for your 'true' love rather than investing in making your existing relationship loving. Look back to see what attracted you to your wife in the first place. Can you rediscover that feeling or did you marry her out of a asense of duty, too!?

Quote
Do relations run their course without hate or bitterness?

You seem to be a little confused about what you are looking for. Relations are like the ECG (EKG, if you are in the US)... there are likely to be ups and downs. If you have a flat line in front of you, the relationship is dead. It is in the nature of any relationship. Sometimes we are too busy feeling our own feelings to care about the partner's feelings. Have you stopped to consider the impact this could have on your wife- who is with you despite all this?

Quote
I guess it took me till now to realize these questions (concretely).

I am no Guru to tell you to go live in the real world- that is by far the best piece of advice coming your way, though. I will say, however, if you have realised the questions, the answers too will dawn upon you. You could seek. You are bound to repeat your life's drama till you learn the lessons you are meant to learn.


Quote
Sorry to sound so cruel.
Nadine, I fully agree with you! You donot have to be sorry to be pointing out the obvious. Most of us make the mistake of investing time, emotion, money and effort in 'acquiring' our love and hardly any commitment in terms of all of the above in maintaining the realtions. It is sad. I also would love my love to be a verb rather than a noun as you put it a little while ago.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on June 23, 2008, 05:03:15 AM
Of course, I am totally the wrong person to offer any reply to your questions. I think if you can't wholly commit to your wife, the you should set her free. If you can, then quit messing around and commit.

Who knows, maybe she is asking..."is this all there is?" Don't stick it to her in the divorce, if you've been sticking it to her in the marriage. That simply isn't fair.

I'm getting pretty good at this straight talk with my soon to be ex husband. He can't have both worlds either. Commit to be in the marriage or out of it. There is no middle ground.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on June 23, 2008, 06:18:59 AM
From a male perspective...

It can be rather flattering to the male ego (and we all have one even if we generally keep it under some sort of control) when a younger female shows interest.  But it's very easy to mistake interest for something more.  It sounds to me as if this is more a meeting of minds - and it's always good to find someone on the same 'wavelength' - rather than anything else.  If you try and turn it into something more you'll most likely lose the lot.  You'll lose your 'friend', who seems to me to have made it very clear that is all she wants from you, your wife, and possibly the love and respect of your children.  Your 'friend' sounds like a rather level-headed young lady.

Does it make sense to throw all that away on a maybe?

Maybe you're in a place where sense doesn't make sense.  Infatuation sounds like a childish word to use for the feelings of a 55 year old male, but you yourself have described it as feeling like a teenage crush.

From my own experience, being just a few years older, and a serial monogamist, I can honestly say i have never left one partner because of the 'siren lure' of another.   That's not to say I've never 'fancied' anyone else.  I've had my share of soul-searching, of keeping things to myself until the temptation wears off.  Maybe I'm just big on loyalty, who knows?  It seems to be a family trait.

I've long suspected that in even the most 'just friendly' relationship between a man and a woman there comes a time when your body and part of your mind will conspire against all loyalty and common sense to make you wonder 'what if?' or 'what would it be like?'.  But why mention this and risk losing a good friend by making them uncomfortable around you?

Back when I was married there was one particularly strong temptation.  A girl twenty years younger than me who my wife and I took under our wing when she was having a bad time.   It was awkward and bloody uncomfortable but I told myself it would pass, and it did.  I wasn't going to lose the one I truly loved for an entrancing and beguiling creature who still had a lot of growing up to do and would probably turn into a very different person a few years down the road.

Yes, I still think about her sometimes.  She is the 'dark lady' in my history who I know I will never be able to completely forget, even though logic tells me any relationship other than 'friend' would have been doomed.  Many of us have such a person, but we leave them where they belong, in the 'memory cupboard'.

My ex-wife once said I was too cold blooded, too self contained, but she missed the point.  There's nothing cold about my blood, and she knew this really.  But my mind is rather apt to step forward and offer a cool appraisal even at times of great passion.

Fifty plus is a dangerous age, my friend.  You still have all the thoughts and desires of a younger man, but you can hear the clock ticking down.  The desire to take to the road, to do the things you never had time to do whilst buying a home and producing a family, to relive moments of glory 'just one more time'.  And the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia can easily make you think that an old friendship was much more than it ever was, and that a passing fancy could have been the great love of your life.

I've often found myself thinking "In another time and another place...  But not now."  I have to be true to myself, to my beliefs, and loyalty comes very high on that particular scale.

I realise this has offered you very little real advice, but what you are feeling is pretty damned common you know, almost inevitable perhaps.  What you do about it is where you find out about yourself.

Gyppo
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on June 23, 2008, 01:10:12 PM
Good impute Gypo ...
I'm convinced that if a state of openness exists between partners and the ONE agenda page is on the table at all times that's the start of you both growing deeper.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 23, 2008, 04:53:35 PM
Hey Gypo, I was hoping to hear from another guy who understands my predicament.  You've mentioned many things I can relate to.  You know, she continues to be a good friend and I am grateful for that.  I guess cause we have high respect for each other.   I remember when it really hit me, I looked within myself for answers and remembered a teaching for this situation.  "When love overflows within you, spread it around".  I try to consciously do this with all whom I deal with during the day and as a result, my social network has been growing.  Like I mentioned previously, we email each other regularly  and in one email, I explained my analysis of the situation.  She replied that she was glad I could be truthful with her and that the one thing she expects is honesty, even if it could be momentarily awkward.  She went on to say that this is what makes true friends for a lifetime.  Can you blame me for admiring her?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Amie on June 23, 2008, 04:58:57 PM
I occasionally peek in on this thread but as yet have never commented (where to start? so many thoughts. "romantic men have caused me nothing but grief, shoot them all" being the foremost amongst those)

But, before dipping my toe in these waters (if I ever do) - I just have to know - what are you folk voting for when you choose "guts" over "feelings" in this poll? Aren't they the same thing? ???

Someone answer me please, it's been driving me nuts ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Akeith (Gray) on June 23, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
Saturnine:

I'm with you on this.  I look at this thread daily (almost) but haven't voted because I didn't know the difference between "guts" and "feeling".
In Texas, they are basically used to mean the same thing.

Gray
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on June 23, 2008, 07:26:40 PM
But, before dipping my toe in these waters (if I ever do) - I just have to know - what are you folk voting for when you choose "guts" over "feelings" in this poll? Aren't they the same thing? ???

Someone answer me please, it's been driving me nuts ;D

You could just PM Rinka, who started the thread, and ask.  I've no idea either ;-)

Gyppo
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on June 23, 2008, 11:29:28 PM
Sat,

I haven't voted either. Couldn't quite sort it. My best guess is/was that guts was more instinctual or animalistic and feeling was more of the romantic notion. I don't think the poll ever became fundamental to the thread.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 24, 2008, 02:26:02 AM
I tried to answer without thinking.  Just my "gut feeling"!?  Oops, I just used a quote, exclamation and question mark in one stroke.  A cardinal sin here, I bet.  In Hawaiian, we have one common word for guts, feelings - na'au (literally, the intestines).  I go with another poster.  Gut feeling is a noticeable immediate sensation, whereas, the word feeling seems to have a much broader meaning.
 It could be an opinion, attitude, belief, etc.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Amie on June 24, 2008, 03:55:35 AM
I don't think the poll ever became fundamental to the thread.

No, I realise that - it was just one of those little niggles, you know?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Amie on June 24, 2008, 04:19:19 AM
leialoha...  I think I might start babbling here, so I'm not sure if anything useful will come of this.

Random thought no 1: I think Nadine is right when she suggests you consider your wife's feelings. I don't mean this in a sanctimonious way at all (although what I'm about to say is surely going to sound that way).

It sounds like you are with her because it is comfortable for you. It will "do" until or if you find something better. You worry about settling. Actually, women aren't very different from men in this respect - we worry about settling too. The fact is, it is almost impossible that two people will entirely fulfil each other's needs, there will always be some form of compromise (in my husband's case, he has to put up with the fact that I am incredibly disorganised and not anything like a perfect housewife :) - in my case, I have to put up with the fact that he finds every grain of sand and every crack in the pavement fascinating, so it takes a minimum of one hour to take a 5 minute walk into town with him :)  he feels my faults are balanced by the things he loves about me, and vice versa)

So, chances are that your wife doesn't think you're perfect either - but she's decided that you're perfect enough for her. Part of that equation will be based on the expectation of you having a future together. History means a lot. She may well have had opportunities that she's passed up because she's decided to commit to you. If she knew that you always have one eye casting about for someone else, for that perfect romantic partner, her perspective on this might be entirely different, and she might either leave or at the very least take up a few of those offers. To deceive her as to your intentions is enormously unfair to her, you are squandering her life.

the other thing is that I suspect your feelings towards this other woman are unrealistic. It's the use of the word "romantic" that clues me in. hence my earlier comment about romantic men causing me untold grief.

it's a weird thing, romanticism...  I don't know if I'm odd, but I seem to have attracted a disproportionate number of romantic men in my younger years. The kind who insist that you are soul mates, "cut from the same cloth", destined to be together, reincarnations that have sought each others' souls over time even (cringe - yes, I have had men say that to me. And they weren't even stoned at the time ;) ). And you sort of cringe when you hear it, and feel a bit panicked and overwhelmed at the sheer mania of it - but part of you wants to believe too. It's like believing in life after death - your intellect tells you it's nonsense, but you still want so desperately to believe because it gives some meaning to life. So you (at least, if you're like I was when I was in my 20s) you let yourself get swept up in their mania.

Thing about romantic men is - they're deluded. Sorry mate, but I've experienced enough of them to know this for a fact. They seem to have this need to idealise - they put you on a pedestal, everything you do is perfect. you are the most brilliant, most talented, most beautiful, kindest, etc etc etc. It's a terrifying thing to try to live up to. and not just terrifying, but impossible. Sooner or later, the romantic man starts to notice that you aren't in fact perfect. That you sometimes get a spot or are flatulent, that you tell a joke that falls flat or have a petty emotion on occasion. And then they resent you for not conforming to that ideal that they'd created. chances are, if you had the opportunity to leave your wife for this other woman, she'd just disappoint you too. Not saying you shouldn't have a bash - maybe for you serial insanity is the way to go - the ups and downs might be a lot more interesting and exciting for you than a stable comfortable relationship - just have a thought for the women you're involving in this and the effect it might have on them.

(edited to remove a complete irrelevant detail :) )
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 24, 2008, 07:19:22 PM
Saturnine, You,ve hit on many points that I've been mulling over.  I realize that you never know what you're going to get in any new relationship.  I've discovered that it's not just this situation.  I'm seeing many possibilities that require a lot more freedom than I have now.  Thought I had already gone through the "mid-life" crisis, but I guess not.  Perhaps it's as someone said previously "the notion that there is something out there for you, may never go away".   I've worked very hard in my life, sacrificing for family, friends, etc., but I still feel very fortunate in how life has played out for me.  The biggest deterrent I have to change is I don't think I could hurt my wife again.  I love her, she's very dear to me and I appreciate all that she has done.  It's almost enough for me to say I'll just stay put for her sake.  That's it for me.  I made my choice years ago and now I need to stick with it.  And yet......
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on June 26, 2008, 02:14:37 PM
I keep coming back to this thread, it's interesting.  Different takes, different worries, issues, dramas and feelings.

I keep thinking that though sometimes things are really bad for people, there is always, somewhere, love.  Whether they find it in this life or the next I don't know.  I'm beginning (as a total non believer in anything really) to think that there is something to 'soul', and 'soul mate' is a concept I can relate to.

Maybe I'm just stupidly optimistic.  I've been married for 27 years.  But hey, what do I know about love?

Carrie

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on June 26, 2008, 03:27:00 PM
Leiloha,You have recieved enough input from a lot of people who mean well... both men and women are united in the theme that True love is. Also both men and women are united in their opinion that you are treading on dangerous territory.What appears strange is that you are trying to justify ALL by presenting a picture of 'sacrifice' and ' not wanting to hurt your wife' as if you are the one who has somehow been wronged by Nature and Fate. We all work hard in our lives ( else whatever is it that we seek from a life?!) and we all do it for some body in our lives. Mostly we are doing it for ourselves but yes, we also do things simply to please those that we love or to see the pride in their faces.I, like Gyppo, MUST say that loyalty is very high on my list of values. Most of us are likely to find someone or the other attractive at some point in our lives and likely to be tempted. These are best dealt with by the head rather than the heart. True love is something that makes our hearts miss a beat despite the differences. We may not always get what we seek from our love... sometimes because they do not realise what we want and sometimes because we are not ready to recieve it. There will be times of bitter battles and times of utter frustration at  not being understood. Does that change the nature of love we once felt? If we felt it?
Quote
I've worked very hard in my life, sacrificing for family, friends, etc.,

Well...
Your assumption that you are the one making all the sacrifices is quite typical and skewed! Think about the others who are in your circle of influence! Especially think about teh commitment ( and the sacrifice your wife is making).

Relationships need a lot of work and nurturing. Try to invest atleast as much effort time and money into keeping it as you may have once done trying to get it.

Best wishes,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on June 26, 2008, 05:32:33 PM
NatureWalker, I'm developed a new perspective and I'm think somehow you all have contributed to it.  I guess it's what they call mid-life crazies.  I was at a point in my life where I had very little worries or commitments for my time. I started new adventures, friendships, hobbies, etc.  The other  woman may have just been the spark that caused me to start assessing my life (or maybe she was just an innocent bystander).  When I think about it, I'vd fallen into this "mood" several times in my life.  Usually what spurred it was some tramatic event or situation.  Something that knocks you out of your "everyday" life.  What's different now ?  With no person or thing to worry about, I began thinking about the quality of my life.  I can pretty much do what every I want to do.  I see many possibilities ahead.  Problem is what do I really want to do and whom do I want to do them with.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on June 26, 2008, 05:34:47 PM
Sometimes we skew the words we use to get the meaning we want.  Sacrifice, help, wish, desire.  A few of so many words that we can adapt and contextualise.

True love? 

I hope it's real, because true rejection is very, very painful. Something to counter it should exist out there somewhere.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on June 27, 2008, 12:01:16 AM
True love is real, Carrie. There may be times you feel you have it and there will be some when you feel you were mistaken. It is not simply that everything in the universe has an opposite- action/reaction, matter/anti-matter. Love is as consuming as hate as rejection. It can cause as much anguish as it can elate.

Love also means being able to express it not just when the lover wants to but also when the loved needs to be loved! That si the mistake a lot of people make in their relationships. It is easy to express emotions when you want to express them. It takes more to express your emotions when you see your spouse/ lover/ friend/ child needing it.

Words are just a means of expressing our thoughts and feelings. We should use them carefully as they have a lot of power.

Here's to true love!
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on June 28, 2008, 07:00:20 AM
Oh, I'm an optimist.  Even though I am not a particularly 'happy bunny' shall we say, in my marriage, I do believe that one day I will be ok again and that love will be in my life.  Even if it's not the same as what I used to have, or may have expected.

I think there is good in most people.  I look for that in life, in the world. 

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Amie on June 28, 2008, 02:09:22 PM
I think almost everyone wants to be a good person, it's a fairly universal human characteristic. Sometimes though we have different ideas as to what constitutes "good", and other times what we want and what we perceive to be "right" are not easy to reconcile - so then people start justifying their choices and themselves.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: McWawa on June 30, 2008, 07:47:43 AM
True Love isn't explainable in a language of logic and reason, that's why it's best expressed in the words of poetry or in gestures alone. When analysed to fit into a logical framework the outcome will always be unsuccessful, and thus leave the analyst to beleive that it can't possibly be; great mistakes of deed and judgement can follow on from this ! True Love is the antithesis of all logic.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on June 30, 2008, 08:41:25 PM
I love you guys/girls.

Nadine  ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Wicked Redhead on June 30, 2008, 11:34:42 PM
I think true love is for novels and poetry.
Of course, i hope i'm wrong.

Chris
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 01, 2008, 12:44:24 AM
Chris,

True love is real. The hard part is recognizing it when it comes. The scary part is acknowledging it, and embracing it.

"...chase after life (love) with the drive of an eight-year-old chasing an ice cream truck!"


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 01, 2008, 02:57:43 AM
Is there a difference between true love and infatuation?  I know what's similar between the two-both can capture your heart.  Is sex a part of the equation or is it just an avenue of expansion into the many directions that love can take?  We can love many people at once, but can we be "in love" with more than one at a time?  Kudos to love!  One of the great mysteries of us.  Hey Love, can you quit now, I give up!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on July 01, 2008, 03:21:57 PM
Perhaps closer to the intent of the survey would be the use of the words, INTELLECT and INTUITION.
I think there's a balancing act in the decision making process as we bounce between the two camps.
Time and circumstance shapes our belief structures but a practiced attention to the intuitive can prove the profitable way sometimes. Sometimes a little of both other times.
One way works on accrued evidence - the other by faith. Something like the writing process itself I'm thinking.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on July 01, 2008, 03:28:04 PM
I love you guys/girls.

Nadine  ;D


I'm wondering if an x, extra marital cheater has any chance of being included.
I'm not the person I once was ...who's on his way to becoming the person I will yet be.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on July 01, 2008, 03:32:01 PM
Perhaps closer to the intent of the survey would be the use of the words, INTELLECT and INTUITION.
I think there's a balancing act in the decision making process as we bounce between the two camps.
Time and circumstance shapes our belief structures but a practiced attention to the intuitive can prove the profitable way sometimes. Sometimes a little of both other times.
One way works on accrued evidence - the other by faith. Something like the writing process itself I'm thinking.

On second thought, I don't think those rules apply to LOVE. It's an entirely different species I think.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: rewh2oman on July 01, 2008, 03:35:15 PM
I'm wondering if an x, extra marital cheater has any chance of being included.

And I quote, "Love Comes to Everyone" - George Harrison
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on July 01, 2008, 03:43:50 PM
And I quote, "Love Comes to Everyone" - George Harrison


...and,  the book of James, chapter 2 verse 8;
If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
      YE DO WELL!
This thread can never end you know ... Love is a bottomless lake with words of description barely able to stay afloat as they try to decipher it. :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 01, 2008, 08:20:11 PM
I'm wondering if an x, extra marital cheater has any chance of being included.
I'm not the person I once was ...who's on his way to becoming the person I will yet be.

Why not? Every once in a while, for no apparant reason, I feel the urge to say, "I love you."

Sometimes going down the freeway with a van full of mentally challenged people, I will say to them..."I love you guys!" Then I say it to each person on the van, naming them. I enjoy that they holler back, "We love you, Nadine."

Now the funny thing is the staff I work with would rather jump from the van than say back the "L" word. Who's challenged?

I suppose there are different levels of the same (one kind) of love. I really do love my clients. I don't know, is it love if it isn't real?

So, to answer your question, yes...I can love you too.

That doesn't mean I want to live with everyone I love.  ;D

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 02, 2008, 08:27:09 PM
Ditto... ;) :) ;D

Well said Nadine...Noone is excluded..Everyone is included..No matter what...!
Then it's UNCONDITIONAL...
That doesn't mean I/We  want to  live with all of them or live under one roof for any reason though...
Its the Thought and the Feeling that holds DEAR to the self and the other..
I LOVE YOU GUYS/ GALS...You all are Brilliant..!!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 03, 2008, 06:19:43 PM
What is the purpose of LIFE?

Sri Bhagavan's messge..to the whole world!
Pl watch the videos..

http://www.onenessuniversity.org/oneness/cms/home/video.html
 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: dynodreamer on July 04, 2008, 01:47:23 PM
Why not? Every once in a while, for no apparant reason, I feel the urge to say, "I love you."

Sometimes going down the freeway with a van full of mentally challenged people, I will say to them..."I love you guys!" Then I say it to each person on the van, naming them. I enjoy that they holler back, "We love you, Nadine."

Now the funny thing is the staff I work with would rather jump from the van than say back the "L" word. Who's challenged?

I suppose there are different levels of the same (one kind) of love. I really do love my clients. I don't know, is it love if it isn't real?

So, to answer your question, yes...I can love you too.

That doesn't mean I want to live with everyone I love.  ;D

Nadine

Good point there - Continue breaking up that that fallow ground Nadine.
'Love you tooooo! :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on July 08, 2008, 12:47:38 AM
I so love this thread. 37 pages now, and so much advice, feedback to be given and shared. Experiences and stories told....really this is something to behold.
It's so nice to see so many familiar names still among this thread, and so many more newcomers as well.
Nature, Nadine, Sune, Carrie, and so many of you, it is great to see all of you hanging in here offering your sound logic and truest of feelings on this topic.
In answer to an earlier question regarding the poll......gut or feeling.....interesting as this may be, I went for gut, after all, to me it is a feeling, and one i have learned long ago not to ignore. Basic as it may be, something as complex as love, can really be narrowed down to a very simple and basic entity. Yes i used the word entity. Like God, or Bhudda, or whatever/wherever one's faith may be placed love is no less deserving. After all, sometimes it only takes a lot of faith to hang in and stick with something, and if it is worth the faith and the love, then it is certainly worth everything. I learned long ago that it is merely a decision we make. To love and sacrifice one's self for that love, is to me, of the highest regard. Be it your spouse, your faith, or just your stance on something.....hold true to it. Stray from that belief and everything you've sacrificed has been in vain.

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 08, 2008, 01:29:45 AM
Yes, this forum has it all.  All the important viewpoints are eventually shared.  It's been a great help to me.  I've realized that someone can believe that they truly love you, but that does not mean that you will have the same feeling.  I often hear the words to that song by Glenn Frey, "Are you gonna stay with the one who loves you?  Are you going back to the one you love?"  When I think of leaving, I am filled with immense sadness for her.  She has been my loyal companion and best friend for many years.  I would truly miss her if we could not remain friends, but I know that I could go on.  I've been trying to bring my focus back, but I fear it has left this home.  Perhaps there is something in me that does not want to let go of the chance of living another dream.  Still in limbo....
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 08, 2008, 02:14:09 AM
True, this is an amazing thread. I am usually a very private person and can't believe how much of myself I've put into words here.

Love is risky business.

I've found it is much different to be passionate about a cause, a creed, or faith. Those can be solo expeditions. I suppose, at least it has been said here, love can be a solo expedition. Love could be like a moonbeam shining into the corner of a large dark room.

Even a pet or my clients love me back. How much better for a partner, lover, mate to do so too? Returned love is like placing a mirror in the corner, where it can reflect the light into the rest of the room.

Sometimes the mirror needs adjusting or cracks. Sometimes, left untended, it can tarnish and lose its silver backing, or worse, shatter. I'm a couple person. That takes another person willing to be in love with me.

So, the mirror is gone. Not impossible. But things will be different, perhaps better. I think that is the case. Personally, I'm happy he is leaving if he can't commit fully, and I know he can't.

Maybe you two should talk.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 08, 2008, 03:22:12 AM
I like that analogy with the mirror.  I also used to be a very reserved person, but now I'll talk to anybody about anything.  The great task of raising a family was very long and hard, but also filled with much happiness and sometimes sadness.  I wouldn't trade the expierience for anything else, but it's as if I've awakened from a dream and remembered myself as I was before starting a family.  I still don't understand what's happened to me, but I'm reminded of a movie with Jack Lemmon and Ted Danson.  I don't remember the title, but in the movie, Jack plays an elderly father who starts doing all the things that he ever wanted to do and then some.  Ted plays the dutiful son who tries to keep track of and a lid on his dad's new interests.  Sometimes I think that maybe I got the same "bug" or syndrome.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 08, 2008, 04:46:55 AM
Our kids are fantastic (don't we all say that). But, I'd rather had them with someone who was 100% there rather than with someone with just the appearance of being there. His half commitment, I think, was worse than being totally gone. I'm not convinced that one can be partly present, either here or not here. Anything between is the same as not here.

The divorce? I welcome it. It puts an end to being in his shadow, to waiting for him to finally come around. He said he did his duty. Well, this isn't the military. Duty? I think loving was his real duty and I don't care what his excuse is/was, what he did was so unfair to us. Of course I'm not perfect, but I'm not talking about the daily stuff.

You said you didn't want to hurt your wife again by leaving again. I think, in my situation, his staying hurt us more. It was daily. There was no recovery or healing from it because it began again each morning. I'm glad he is leaving. I think it is good for all five of us. I know it is good for him. He says we will remain friends. I don't know if he really has been a friend, without love?

We've never fought and we aren't now. It has almost been a business arrangement. If only I had understood that from the beginning.

Don't stay for the wrong reasons. Don't just go through the motions. That isn't fair.


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 08, 2008, 05:59:07 AM
Maj
If you lve someone- you WANT to do all the little things and feel happy in the happiness you generate. That said, love need not always be reciprocated. That does not make this love any less real or true than that which is returned in good measure. And sometimes all it takes is a lot of faith to hang on! You are right! living our everyday lives we often let go of the things that really are the most important in our lives. How CAN we allow that to happen? How do we? In all of this may be, we are unmindful of our own commitments to our relationship. Here, I am trying to put forth both the views.

Nadine,
It is easier to love when there is no expectation involved... but it is not easy to nay have any expectations from the one you love! I quite agree with you and feel that expecting the things that make you happy from the one who decided to do so some years ago is only natural. It is strange... and sad that some people ( men/ women) invest so much time, money, emotion and energy in trying to win over someone they THINK they love and so little in someone they KNOW they do. What is that changes the relationship? Once 'won over', the trophy is good for the showcase? Does not need any polishing nor any attention? Well... even a trophy needs attention and relationships need much more.

Love,
NW

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 08, 2008, 06:59:22 PM
I apologize if I'm offending anyone.  Just trying to be honest here.  I've been a good husband and still am, except for not coming forth with the truth to my wife.  Somehow I'm hoping it will all blow over or maybe there's a magic cure that will erase whatever it is.  I can will myself to get back in the fold, but it won't help me in the long term.  I've been hoping to hear from more guys about this.  I don't think this problem is unique. 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on July 09, 2008, 12:35:48 AM
A guys opinion you want, a guys opinion you shall receive.....
In my honest opinion, I believe your priorities in this are kinda....off. If after all, you're trying to be honest here, let's start with the obvious.....
1.) In your attempts at honesty, I belive you are choosing the wrong people to be honest with . It is my belief that everyone of us here is less deserving this honesty than your wife is. She has stood beside you to raise your successful family, I think you ;at the very least; owe her that honesty.
2.) As for being a good husband, if you believe you are, then why are you feeling guilty? Have you said you are, not directly, but if I'm reading the tone in your posts correctly, there is guilt...
Unfortunately, I don't believe the guilt is for the obvious reasons as much as i do that there is more to this than is being said, but that's not really my concern. Furthermore, as far as good husbands go, you're being completely dishonest to your wife. I can make several points to prove this, but you, I and many others here can surely see where and how. So by not coming forth with the truth, as you put it, you're not being a very good husband. You're sounding more like Nadines (ex?) who is described as being more of a business venture. Do you feel as if your tour of duty is fulfilled and you're somehow deserving of more than what you've committed yourself to?
3.) You are apologizing for offending anyone? Who....? The people here? Personally I think you owe that apology to someone else, and sorry, I'm not sure she is here...Try facing that one and apologizing.
I'm not sure if you are remorseful, or seeking advice, or what....Honestly, I don't think you are. I think that you are waiting for someone to tell you to go for it, or way to go ......gladly I don't see that happening, and I tend to actually be seeing the opposite.
All said, it's your life, and your marriage.....it's for you to decide, regardless what anyone else may have to say in regards to this. Personally I find the whole thing rather tragic for your wife....Yes this happens and with the divorce rate being what it is, it's no surprise. You talk of her loyalty to you, and your attempts to bring yourself back into focus. Where's your love for her, or your sense of loyalty? Don't answer, that is obvious, hence the reason you're still in limbo.....Personally......I think your mind is already made up......you're in about as much limbo as you are in love with your wife....which is to say, hardly at all.....
I've never had a thought once about saying anything in this regard to anyone else in this forum, but this is really bringing me to a point I really don't like......this is a thread about love, is it true, does it exist.......a place where many wonderful people have come and shared some of the sweetest and most endearing, and occassionally saddening moments of their experiences......let's not make it a thread of "should i continue to cheat on and lie to my wife, and will anyone side with me on this?" thread.
Personally, I hope she leaves you and gives you something to really ponder, but somehow I don't think that would really phase you.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 09, 2008, 02:45:34 AM
Well, I see that I've hit some nerves.  Let's make one thing clear - I have not cheated on my wife.  It's true that I have not been forthcoming about my current state of mind and I've admitted that here.  That could change at anytime.  Could it be that some are afraid to believe that men (or women) could think this way?  I believe that many men have expierienced what I am going through, but they just as soon forget it, not talk about it, not admit to it.  I'm interested in knowing which direction they took and why, how?
There's always another side to the things that we try to hold as sacred.  Is it good or bad?  If there's a chance for greater happiness, should we forsake it for any reason(s)?  Have we been indoctrinated (especially in the Western World) into believing that there should always be a "fairy tale ending"?  Heck, is any of this really important in the "grand scheme of life" (whatever that may be)?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 10, 2008, 04:06:25 PM
Maj :-*
Quote
this is a thread about love, is it true, does it exist.......a place where many wonderful people have come and shared some of the sweetest and most endearing, and occassionally saddening moments of their experiences......let's not make it a thread of "should i continue to cheat on and lie to my wife, and will anyone side with me on this?" thread.
Could not have said it any better! I must appreciate you for your directness and emotion. It is a difficult combo in the best of times. What can I say but that I am glad men think and act in the same way!? I have always felt that men love with equal if not greater intensity- only their expression is ... well... different. Women would sometimes need to identify the expression to be able to understand the depth.
Women love ardently, too but express quite easily and, thus, expect the same from the ones they love.

Both are styles that express love- true or otherwise! ( If it is love it is true... if it is not true, it is not love!)

Liealoha,
I do hope you understand what Majere was trying to tell you. Cheating on your wife need not be sleeping with your fancy/ fantasy alone. Cheating is also the emotional emptiness you seem to be wanting people on this thread to validate and accept. The guilt you mention, the lack of closeness you write of, and the temptation to find " greater happiness" IS CHEATING!!!!!!!! Big time!

Fairy tale endings require commitment, love, patience and honesty. They require trust and reason to trust. They require the relationship to have its own pulsating life that may rise and fall like the breath and that is ALIVE.

A lot of people on this thread have indeed shared a lot of thoughts and feelings- both happy and sad... Both are expressions of their love.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 10, 2008, 04:25:45 PM
I truly appreciate ALL the feedback.  I've recently admitted to my wife that my perspective on life has/is changing and we have talked a little.  I'm sure she noticed my change, but was probably afraid to ask.  I'm sure there will be more talks.  I could go on and on, but think I've invaded this space a bit too much.  I'm taking a break from posting, but will continue to read everybody else's! :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 10, 2008, 08:33:22 PM
Leialoha,

You didn't invade. You probably didn't expect such a strong reaction to your post. Obviously the people who have posted here feel strongly about love. I mix it up once in a while, but you really stirred the pot--made us think. Seems we made you think too. You don't need to go away; I really want you to stay.

Things are confusing for you and me, differently, but still... I can't imagine anyone on this thread wanting you to remain silent. I'm sorry we weren't more careful, with you being new and all, but seems the emotions ran free. Come back,

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on July 11, 2008, 01:06:22 PM
I will not apologize for what I said, but i will offer my apologies for the way I came across. I am very devoted and dedicated to the woman in my life, and if you have read the previous posts of mine i am sure it can be understood why I feel as strongly as I do. Like Leialoha, I too have gone through my times of wondering what else I might be missing, or if this is the best my life is going to get. For some it is easier to give in to temptation, for others it is a fine line walked on the teetering edge, and yet still for some, it is easier to walk away altogether and go on with their pursuits, in whichever direction. I myself always found the more difficult task of hashing through all the problems to be the route that worked best for me. It was never easy, but it has ever been worth the commitment and the effort that it took. I have never been the promiscuous sort, or the type to cheat. Probably why it has always been easier for me to decide my route. I'm not immune to the thought or temptation, just too damn stubborn to give up or risk what I have worked so hard for. Now I do not have the accumulated years of life that Leialoha does, or perhaps many of the people that post here, but the experiences in my life have spoken for themselves and brought me to be who and where I am in this point in my 35 years.
Please understand I am passionate about who I am and what I have accomplished and this weaves its way into everything I do. It is my own expression that when I argue, or work, or love,
I do so very passionately and strive to make sure there is no misunderstandings in anything I do or say. Am i blunt, yes, do I call it how I see it, yes........It is who I am.....and how i am......But understand i also admit my wrongings....and when able, learn from my mistakes.
If your taking a break from posting here because of my reaction, please don't.......if on the other hand it is to place a priority on this point in your life with your wife and determine how best the two of you will go into the future, do so with the best wishes and regards I can offer.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 11, 2008, 02:26:04 PM
Love in the real world needs us to understand a few things:


If you love someone, you want to do little things for and with that someone.

Promisquity, lust may give a momentary high (to some).They do not even begin to give the kind of contentment and calm that love may.

Temptations and attractions are a thing of the real world, too. As are the decisions on how to deal with them.

Priorities of loving people often come back to LOVING and caring.

Love and nurture are probably Nature's way of promoting safety and continuity... These do go together most of the time.

There may be those who grow out of love they once felt. That does not make the past love any less real.

Love IS to value the one you love.

Love IS to be able to either see the temptation for what it is- unimportant interlude or even decide that it is really not as important as the love you feel.

I am a hundred percent with Maj. I do not even want to apologise for what we said... Leialoha actually invited it! I do want to say that sometimes what we want to hear may not be the best thing or even the right thing for us. What we do not want to hear may infact be obvious answer to the questions we frame.

The posts here are heartfelt and honest. There is no need for an apology on both those counts. Maturity would be in accepting what makes sense to you, Leialoha, and try to figure out if teh rest can make any sense to you. These feelings are ours. That does not make them any better or worse than yours. Or any truer.

At the end of the day, I would not give up on my man and my family EVER... That is a choice I make. As would be the choice you make. Or any one else.

This is no reason to quieten. If at all, this is a wonderful place to discover what you need and realise what really is important in your life.

All the best for whatever you choose to do,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 11, 2008, 05:38:39 PM
Many of the opinions here are similar to what I hear from "honest" friends.  That's more than I expected or could ask for.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 11, 2008, 07:49:10 PM
Leialoha,

Good that you understood our honesty. I wouldn't change a word I wrote (either). I just wanted to offer a second welcome. I wouldn't want you to feel rejected, and hopefully our comments conveyed that we care.

There are days being a moderator walks a fine line too.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on July 12, 2008, 03:56:10 AM
Quote
There may be those who grow out of love they once felt. That does not make the past love any less real.

Good honest words, Naturewalker.  People change, but that doesn't make the past less valuable.

Love is totally subjective, it's impossible to be objective I think.  All you can do is follow the deepest feelings of your heart, not your body or mind (which are fickle friends on occasion, I do know).

Good luck to everyone in their love.  I think finding the right person is a difficult thing for people these days.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 12, 2008, 05:11:39 AM
 
Quote
I think finding the right person is a difficult thing for people these days.

Do we belong to the past? Carrie... ;)

... But seriously...

I am grateful for all that we DO have in our lives....

Lots of love,

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 20, 2008, 02:28:50 AM
If you are trying to attract a mate, job, or living situation,you must be equal to it in your thoughts and feelings.
  If you are matched with something you truly deserve by your unity with it, it is yours by universal law, and no one can interfere.

    
READ MORE...
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 20, 2008, 02:39:49 PM
Oh gosh, Sune Darling...hate to ask again, but please only post a line of a quoted work. Hits on the link can be traced back to us/MWC and that would not be good that we allowed so much of their material to be posted.

Trust me, I trace back hits on my website sometimes. Doesn't require a huge IT ability to do it. Please, please refrain from posting more than one or two lines of someone else's material. Best to simply post the link and not quote. Honest, we will click through on the link...you don't need to quote it.

Love ya, but stop doing that!  ;D

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 20, 2008, 05:44:27 PM
Oops,  :o :)
Too much excitement get me some times..I'm sorry Nadine..Dear..!
Thanks for reminding me to get back on track..only two lines pl.....!!
Love you...Love you all!!
Sune
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 20, 2008, 06:05:44 PM
Two Sides of a Prison Wall
by Alan Cohen

Because we are spiritual beings at our essence, what we do with our spirit, influences us more profoundly than what we do with our body.

A Course in Miracles tells us, “I am affected only by my thoughts.” Where our mind goes, there we are.

READ MORE..
http://www.alancohen.com/articles/Perennial/TwoSidesofaPrisonWalll.htm
 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 21, 2008, 10:23:29 PM
Why we do what we do in this daily life, consciously or unconsciously??  :o ??? :D :) ;D

WORDS OF WISDOM from most influential Avatar in our times..!!!



http://www.livinginoneness.com/Sri%20Bhagavan%27s%20Words%20of%20Wisdom.htm
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 23, 2008, 12:36:56 AM
Sune,
You are so funny. (Referencing your previous "enthusiast" quoting.)

Carrie,
OMGosh, a beach photo?

Everyone,
Have we exhausted the topic of real love?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: NCole07 on July 23, 2008, 12:46:20 AM
Can you define true love?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 23, 2008, 01:34:24 AM
When  we  STOP  desperately needing it.........desperately seeking it....
....desperately fighting or struggling for it..

and just BE there in that Inner stillness....one day, one time we will FEEL and REALISE that,

"WE ARE LOVE.." that we've been so desperately searching for so long....!!

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 23, 2008, 01:48:22 AM
Sune,
You are so funny. (Referencing your previous "enthusiast" quoting.)

Everyone,
Have we exhausted the topic of real love?

Nadine

It's true..It happens sometimes.. ;D ;D

Hmmm..May be, we are exhausted arguing about it?? ;) ;D

Love you all!!  You all are BRILLIANT...No matter what you say..!! :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on July 23, 2008, 03:36:45 AM
Argue?  This is an argument?  Bother.. I thought it was a discussion.

Anyway, please point the direction for true love and then I'll be happy and leave this thread well and truly alone.   ::)

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Amie on July 23, 2008, 04:00:09 AM
I'll give you something to argue about! ;D

Events this weekend made me start wondering about why most of us link love and sex. I'm not saying I'm any different - the idea of having sex with someone that I didn't at least like a lot sort of repulses me. But why I wonder? What have the two activities got to do with each other? I think it must be something to do with children - ie, if you're going to risk having them, your biology tells you to make sure it's with someone you can stand being around for a couple of years. but then, if you never plan to have kids? Maybe your biology takes over anyway...

just a thought that occurs to me - the debate over adultery (I haven't read back on this thread, so I don't know if that one is over now, although this is a different angle) seems to boil down to whether you view sex as an activity (you know, like on a par with white water rafting - or maybe going to the cinema is more accurate ;) ), or an expression of love. And yet it's quite clear that people who "love" each other very much can have sex and it's just an activity, whereas the person who has an affair and says, "It was just about sex, I didn't care about him/her" often seems to be lying, as they will leave partner 1 for partner 2 on the basis of professed only-an-activity.

Sorry, just felt like expressing a random ramble :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on July 23, 2008, 09:14:46 AM
Good point.

Sex as an activity?  Well, it certainly burns a few calories... so I'm told.

It is a highly intimate activity and can have considerable consequences. 

But love/sex relationships?  There's many people who have intimate and loving relationships without sex.  And many relationships that are just sex and no love.  Just 'gratification'?

As to argue - I think if you are in a relationship that understands and is totally honest and open about what the other wants/needs/likes - then perhaps it could work.  Yet to find that in my experience however.

Adultery?  Depends on whether you are breaking a contract that is valid or not.  Breaking the marriage contract depends on more than just sex I think.  It's about the whole commitment, loving, respect and support that should be mutual in a marriage.

I think it tends to be - and correct me if I'm wrong - men who see sex and less commiting (relationship wise) than women.  Extra-marital sex isn't breaking the marriage vow, it is their 'white water rafting'.  However, I've yet to meet a woman who thinks that way. 

True love may not even mean being totally faithful to one partner, it may be about giving that partner what they need.  However,  I think the best love is reciprocal.  One way true love and sacrifice and capitulation won't make a love last, methinks.

Happy Wednesday all.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 23, 2008, 03:34:01 PM
Quote
start wondering about why most of us link love and sex

Most people would think of these two together only because of the total surrender and faith required for that surrender can be possible only with love. However, as Carrie points out, it is possible to be in a loving relationship without any sex in it and equally possible to have sex without any love involved in the act.

I would not be able to fathom how the latter is possible... I only know that it is. The former is all around us in various forms and has been discussed quite a bit even in this thread...

Quote
I think the best love is reciprocal.


That is the kind of love that nurtures and brings contentment and peace. However, I am of the firm belief that even though one-sided love may feel agonising, it nevertheless is love. For the person who feels the love, it is REAL... reciprocated or not. It does feel good to be loved. It feels good to be important in someone else's life and feels great to be looked after. However, even in the absence of these reciprocal actions, love does not become any less real for those who love. It does become more painful... but stays as real...

LOL,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 24, 2008, 01:29:55 AM
Argue?  This is an argument?  Bother.. I thought it was a discussion.

Carrie


OOOOOOPS... :o :o
Soory Dear..Actually I meant the discussion..There's nothing to argue..isn't it??
Sorry for the word...Carrie..! ;) :)

Events this weekend made me start wondering about why most of us link love and sex
Saturnine     
.


Good point Saturnine.. ;) ;D
May be we will have so many view points on this..
I think most of us have  mixed the two..[ Sexual activity- as Making Love...or that is love..?]
As I see, Sex is a way of Built-in Biological intelligence into Living Organisms to keep on reproducing for the survival of the species..
But in Conscious Loving/True loving Human Relationship, SEX can be a very intimate connection and expression of Love they share..!


If you watch videos done on Animal kingdom you'll see how ingeniously, creatively  and intuitively males deceive females,
for the prize of SEX and even how females choose most effective sperm-holder to father her offsprings..
It's Nature's way of ensuring the Survival of the Species..as i see.. It's DESIGNED that way!!!

It's so interesting and enlightening when you see it in animals as they are just behaving according to
Built-in Intelligence/Intuition/Instincts... without having any other agenda..

 As in Animal Migration..they intutively know "where to go and when to go, what to do  and when to return.."

They are just as they are... No right or wrong..good or bad here..just a another style or another game plan..!"

All Human Relationship Styles can be seen in Animal kingdom too..

Long-Term Relationships, Commitment, Looking after each other, Taking turns on upbringing youngs, Family life for sometime...[not too common]
or just for the Mating-Season, one-time/few times  SEX and leaving for a another...[common]
Cheating, Fighting, Sneaking, Abusively raping, Passionate Courtship, Intimate mutual connection..all styles, all games are there..!

I invite you all to look into "Private Lives" of other living beings that share this planet with us....
Then we see what we do too in that department...and we can have a Conscious Choice to decide what we do..! ;) ;D

Sex in the bush [DVD videorecording] : fact is stranger than fiction.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SEX-IN-THE-BUSH-DVD-wildlife-reproduction-EXCITING-SHOW_W0QQitemZ200240718429QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL080722105a2723


Early life of animals [DVD videorecording] : courting, nesting and raising young & baby animals

Wild Asia. [DVD videorecording].

Blue planet [videocassette series]
http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=BLUE+PLANET


The life of birds. Episodes 1-10

Living planet -DVD series
http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=LIVING+PLANET


These videos, DVDs are FREE in Libraries..So many DVD'S have been done already..!!
Good Luck!! :) :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on July 24, 2008, 02:51:58 AM
However, even in the absence of these reciprocal actions, love does not become any less real for those who love. It does become more painful... but stays as real...

LOL,
NW

Aaahhh... thank you, NW... someone who understands how I've been feeling for the last nineteen years.

Dave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 24, 2008, 04:52:26 AM
DC,
We all do. We understand the nature of love and want MORE... There is only one thing better than love- More of it! We want it from those we love and we want it endlessly... It feels great to get it. Undoubtedly. But... I have to repeat myself here- Even if it is not reciprocal it stays as real as the air we breathe.

God Bless.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on July 24, 2008, 09:02:31 AM
I should have added, NW, that though I definitely feel it, I have not been able to give it over the years. When last I saw the girl in question, we weren't on the best of terms, and that was seventeen years ago...

:-(

Dave.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 24, 2008, 02:09:12 PM
Dave,
The fact that you remember it even today is testimony to the fact that love lasts... reciprocated or not. There still is hope!
All the best. So long as the feeling is alive in your heart and head, life could still take you anywhere- even to the same girl you were 'not on the best terms seventeen years ago'...
LOL,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 30, 2008, 12:52:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vshBnR4Z9x8&feature=related
Being Present in Relationships - Eckhart Tolle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3miuaOWsj8&feature=user
One-sided love relationship - www.eckharttolle.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFe9FJp9Oc&feature=user
Why do senseless events happen? - www.eckharttolle.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j42cTkiGdXY&NR=1
Eckhart Tolle on Being Yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq_1lg9Dlo&feature=related
The End of Suffering - www.eckharttolle.om
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: RINKA on July 30, 2008, 11:52:47 AM
Hi all, i have not been on for awhile,but i somehow find time to pop in and see what is happening,u guys can never know how much ur experience in life has touch and taught me so many things.
I now know that even if we are from different place we are all human with same purpose in life (we all want to be  happy),i have made a family one i don not intend to forget ever. it is with great joy and fufillment that i tell u all that in my short time so far on earth i agree with everything said on this thread, about this topic LOVE does truly exist in different form.I say, thank you all for your contribution.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 30, 2008, 12:15:45 PM
Rinka,

Thank you for asking the question that began this journey for all of us who contributed, and those who read this thread.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 30, 2008, 01:34:27 PM
Rinka and Nadine,
I MUST say that this thread keeps pulling me back each time I visit MWC. It is enriching and energising. It is refreshing to feel everyone's love flow so freely and share so engagingly that we come back asking for more.
Thanks you ALL for sharing.
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on July 30, 2008, 09:33:19 PM

Thanks to you all ...We all play different parts in the same play of this LIFE!!
It's GREAT to see we all are in same page..!! :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RofybYVNCe4&NR=1
 
Wisdom in Daily Life - www.eckharttolle.com
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 30, 2008, 11:32:40 PM
This thread has been read over 16,000 times. WOW!  :o

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on July 30, 2008, 11:38:36 PM
There is a line I read in Chicken soup series...
The oldest human need is to have someone worry where you are when you do not come home at night.

Different strokes may be the driving force for different people and they may speak different languages... love remains a common thread.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 31, 2008, 12:06:22 AM
love remains a common thread

...in the tapestry of our lives.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: DC on July 31, 2008, 12:16:27 AM
Maybe this is the place to mention a line I came across a few days ago somewhere. It was chiefly aimed at 'bikers', urging them to remember to ride carefully, though it probably fits everyone (bar me*) at some time:

'Just remember that there is someone out there who loves you, and who needs you to be alive tomorrow'

Dave.

*Single only child, parents dead, no kids. O.K., I do have the Cat...  ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 31, 2008, 05:09:09 AM
Where would we be without you, Dave?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ma100 on July 31, 2008, 06:19:10 AM
Okay is there true love for real? My answer yes. I asked someone a question once and they were flabberghasted by it.

Suppose you were on a boat and your kids and partner fell in.  You had the power to save either your kids (grown-up ones as well) or your partner who would you choose.  To me it is clear cut... sorry hubby you are a gonner.  With your kids love is unconditional, sometimes you can down right dislike them but the love is still as strong as ever your partner well that is a tightrope.

A partner once the initial starry eyed, lust filled, jealousy ridden feelings pass, what is left. If you are lucky companionship and a best friend but if you are not...Smouldering resentment, dislike and hatred.


Synical maybe
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 31, 2008, 09:25:49 AM
My initial response in reading your post, Ma, was kids--of course (full of promise), hubby (full of empty promises).  That is totally unfair of me. Well, maybe not totally.

Then I began to compartmentalize love; love for children, lover, other family (aunts/uncles, cousins, grandparents), friends... Not sure why I did that. Human nature? And while each type of love shares basic components, the needs met are very different. That doesn't even take into consideration such things as love of God and country, compassion (love?) of strangers, and the like.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this post, just rambling, I guess.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on July 31, 2008, 02:27:34 PM
Good rambles though Nadine.  Yes, we have different kinds of love for different relationships in our life. 

But which of them is true love?  Like Ma - I agree that kids get the first choice when it comes to 'saving'.  Because adults have had a turn, even if it's not a long one.

When I first got married I had decided not to have children.  I didn't want to bring life into this world that was so full of hate and pain.  But... I thought... how can we change things?  There's only so much one person can do in their life, so to keep the changes going, to try and make the world a better place, then having kids is a good thing to do.

What is a shame is that the 'bad' of the world also see the children as the next generation to carry on their work too - kid soldiers, killers, suicide bombers believing the promise of heaven, brutalised or just plain knowing no different. 

True love? Where is it in all of this?  I think I have some ideas, but like anything I would imagine it is subjective.  Whether you have a love for god or cheese or your parner or your kids. 

My ramble's worth!

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ma100 on July 31, 2008, 03:52:23 PM
Well here is another ramble Nadine and Carrie, you see I would still save the kids if they were all grown up too. This sort of love along with mainly the love of a parent/ grandparent is unconditional in my mind the only true love.

What I do value highly is friendship because in my mind I get all the affection from my friends.  This may sound quite sad but friends are the ones that show loyalty and affection.  Oh yes you get the odd one taking advantage but that doesn't mean their affection isn't real.

The "love" partnership should be recatogerised in my opinion as the emotional rollercoaster because if you don't settle into the comfortable friendship or companionship. What really is left?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on July 31, 2008, 04:07:19 PM
Ma100,  you're statements ring true for me.  Even though my relationship with my spouse is pretty "rocky" right now, we would both agree that  the kids (grown up or not) should be saved first.  It doesn't matter that our kids don't always give us the respect that we deserve, we know that they love us and our love always remains (at least up to now) unconditional.  I also understand your statement of having a good companion and best friend is a fortunate accomplishment.  If we can also have affectionate friends - that's a pretty good life.  Unfortunately, I may have damaged the relationship with my companion beyond repair, but at least I was truthful.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on July 31, 2008, 04:15:26 PM
Ah, well, funny thing is ... I find more love and companionship from my friends than from my partner.  I've been with him 30 years and it's just not the same.  Something changed - perhaps me, perhaps him - most likely both of us.

I would rather spend an hour with my friends than a day with him.  Because of how he makes me feel, and because of how they make me feel.

True love?  I don't know.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ma100 on July 31, 2008, 04:23:57 PM
I would rather spend an hour with my friends than a month with my husband Carrie. Some of my reasons the same as yours.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on July 31, 2008, 05:49:44 PM
Before you read this, if you do read each line, know that I did not paste "I love you." I typed it each time, for each person. I said the words and names to give them life.

I love you, Carrie.
I love you, Naturewalker.
I love you, Ma.
I love you, Sune. (Even though you keep doing that quote thing, so must be unconditional love, eh?)
I love you, Rinka.
I love you, DC Dave.
I love you, Leialoha.
I love you, NCole.
I love you, Saturnine.
I love you, Majere.
I love you, Dynodreamer.
I love you, Russ.
I love you, Yelnick.
I love you, Christine K.
I love you, Gyppo.
I love you, Gray.
I love you, Hismask.
I love you, GypsyInk.
I love you, Alec.
I love you, Tulip. (and I miss you.)
I love you, Noel G.
I love you, Steve.
I love you, Shellie.
I love you, Dom/Nick P.
I love you, Ally.
I love you, Tristan N.
I love you, Mikail.
I love you, Narnian P.
I love you, Ja..smine.
I love you, Scorpio Girl.
I love you, Big T.
I love you, Fire-fly.
I love you, Coffeexpert (don't know you well, but that coffee thing will bring us together!)
I love you, Totroise.
I love you, Rhea.
I love you, Sideshunter.
I love you, Zetos.
I love you, CallforCries.
I love you, DGS (Deb)
I love you, Caddy J.
I love you, Sugy.
I love you, Brokenwings.
I love you, Drad.
I love you, Streatham.
I love you, Bagheera.
I love you, Rob H.
I love you, Ellie.
I love you, Pamela.
I love you, Papa Duck (Paul W)
I love you, Nelodra.
I love you, Guess.
I love you, Christopher S.
I love you, Bru.
I love you, Alex F.
I love you, Praetorian.
I love you, Jeremy (German Voodoo)
I love you, ThatOllie.
I love you, Citabria.
I love you, DWin.

Whew...went through 600 posts.
Oh...yeah, I love me (most of the time).

I love you, Cathy C.

Group hug!

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: leialoha on August 01, 2008, 03:02:36 AM
Nadine, you made my day.  Love you too!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ma100 on August 01, 2008, 03:06:52 AM
Sings *there's a whole lotta lovin' in the world*

Nadine you rock girl. ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on August 01, 2008, 04:14:36 AM
Thanks, Nadine. :-*
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 01, 2008, 04:58:05 AM
Oddly, even now, I find saying "I love you" very easy. And feeling it even easier.

If I can love while in this divorce, I'd have to say, "YES! there is true love for real." I believe with all my heart, I will find it.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on August 01, 2008, 07:36:08 AM
Nadine, Dear Lady.

If it's out there 'with your name on it' it will find you.  Either unexpectedly right on your doorstep, or in the very last place you expect it to be.  Life's like that.

I found my wife at the point of a sword - quite literally - and much later, after a thoroughly miserable divorce, the other great love of my life turned up on my doorstep collecting money.

Gyppo
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on August 01, 2008, 01:09:13 PM
Quote
If it's out there 'with your name on it' it will find you.  Either unexpectedly right on your doorstep, or in the very last place you expect it to be.  Life's like that.

True Gyppo! I found mine while being ragged as a college fresher! I am still quite in love. I may sometimes not be able to say the same for my husband... but I am glad he is there for me... My love is true.

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: PaulW on August 02, 2008, 02:25:46 PM
God - you're not fussy are you Nadine! ;D 

<--- Amy sends a smile. :)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Cathy C on August 02, 2008, 02:32:58 PM
Quote
I found my wife at the point of a sword - quite literally - and much later, after a thoroughly miserable divorce, the other great love of my life turned up on my doorstep collecting money.

Was she holding a sword too? (methinks you have a highway woman fetish ;D)

I found my hubby at the bottom of the garden. ::)

He lived opposite me most of my life but it wasn't until he left Ireland and returned many years later that I 'fell' for him.

Although, maybe the fact that he is my 2nd cousin and I was hoping for a cheap wedding (only one set of relatives to invite), might have made him seem more attractive? ;D

True love... I believe in it. Be it friends, partners, parents, children... it's what makes life worthwhile.

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on August 02, 2008, 02:40:21 PM
Was she holding a sword too?


Yes ;-)

http://www.mywriterscircle.com/index.php?topic=5732.msg197653#msg197653 for part of the story ;-)

Gyppo
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Cathy C on August 02, 2008, 02:44:21 PM
Oh you silver-tongued devil you. ;D

How could she resist?
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on August 02, 2008, 07:33:24 PM
It took her nearly ten years to say no ;-)
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Akeith (Gray) on August 02, 2008, 10:34:40 PM
Awww. Paul Amy looks so cute. Does she favor your wife's side of the family?  ;)

Gray
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: PaulW on August 03, 2008, 02:31:34 AM
Awww. Paul Amy looks so cute. Does she favor your wife's side of the family?  ;)

Gray

That's just her human disguise - after midnight the horns come out ;D
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Akeith (Gray) on August 03, 2008, 02:56:18 AM
Yeah, Paul. I hear that. I know that's right.  ;D

Gray
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nothing on August 03, 2008, 11:47:02 AM
Congratulations on the kid, Paul. I don't know you, but figured i'd say good luck. (smiles)

Love (answering question here) is not real. There is lust and personality favoring. The rest is fairytales.

Peace.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 03, 2008, 12:20:45 PM
Nothing,

If real love does not exist, then that is a sad affair. I think there are many relationship experiences considered to be love at the time, that turn out that they weren't.

But, if things (like in the laws of physics) are equal and opposite, then considering how much some love relationships hurt, there must also be those that delight to equal proportions to the hurt of other experiences. I'll still holding the belief that real love exists.

Adding another question to the mix. Is lust a stage of love?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: ma100 on August 03, 2008, 12:42:05 PM
Oh Nadine I don't think so.

Everybody has fantasys.  Males apparently think about sex an awful lot but it doesn't mean they are in the first stage of love.  (We would have to ask a male if this is true.)  It means in my mind that they want to have sex with a certain person that has taken their fancy. Once that has occured some will hang about, others will be on to their next fancy.

I joke about Jonny Depp and if he was served up on a plate to me I would keep him in a cupboard for a while ;D ;D It is only fantasy and I know for certain I don't love him and certainly wouldn't want a relationship with him. I feel women rather than crave sex are really craving affection.

I could be wrong.
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nothing on August 03, 2008, 12:48:26 PM
I would be in the crave sex catagory. I mean attention is good, but in my exsperience men know nothing about it. Why bother waiting around for the perfect guy, the other half of your soul when he is probably gay or already taken.

I wish you luck in love Nadine L., you as well Ma100
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: eric on August 03, 2008, 01:39:51 PM
You may want to look at my essay "The Role of Poetry in Deceiving the Public," Nothing, if you can find it--Saturnine just moved it somewhere the other day.  It's an academic confirmation of your view.  Oddly, despite that, I still act as if love is real, though no one I feel that way about thinks I believe it or can attend to them etc.  So I guess that puts me in the sex-starved, attention-starved category too.  But I have an excuse, I'm so poor I can't even pay attention. 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 03, 2008, 03:06:52 PM
Thanks for the good wishes. I will keep them safe. It is a bit early for me to be very interested in falling in love again. It does take a while to unravel 22 years of marriage. We are hoping for a divorce that is a win-win, but a draw-draw would be okay. We have seen so many that are lose-lose that we really want to use our heads on this. So for now, my heart is tucked away...but still alive, I think.

Or maybe, I just want to hope for the future.


Cute pic, Nothing.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: rewh2oman on August 03, 2008, 04:37:38 PM
I Love You Nadine. You are a good friend. And believe me, a true friend is one of the rarest of things. I know of what I speak.

 :)

...Russ

"Peace and Love" - Ringo Starr



Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 04, 2008, 10:54:09 AM
Hugs, Russ.


Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 04, 2008, 09:25:16 PM
Oh Nadine I don't think so.

Everybody has fantasys.  Males apparently think about sex an awful lot but it doesn't mean they are in the first stage of love.  (We would have to ask a male if this is true.)  It means in my mind that they want to have sex with a certain person that has taken their fancy. Once that has occured some will hang about, others will be on to their next fancy.

I joke about Jonny Depp and if he was served up on a plate to me I would keep him in a cupboard for a while ;D ;D It is only fantasy and I know for certain I don't love him and certainly wouldn't want a relationship with him. I feel women rather than crave sex are really craving affection.

I could be wrong.


I think you got the most of it  ma..Great Observations through the landscape of life..! :)

In our Language we say..Fall in Love, Making Love, Be in Love, Love and War,
 Love-Struck, Love bite, Love affair, Ending love, Love turning to Hate ..and so on.

As I see, what we are really seeing here is "Interpersonal Attraction"...that varies on so many biological, mental and emotional factors..
Unconscious built-in mechanisms,that are  Pre-Designed for the existence of the Species..
Sexual attraction, sex drive , sexual fantasies, or sexual intimacy..all are  disguised in human culture in  many ways
as social interaction or social marital laws or LOVE..

I think it's time to look deeply if we want to see clearly the Roller-Coaster of Pre-designed Unconscious Programming of human mind......as ma said..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_attraction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_attraction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%28scientific_views%29



LOVE is the Essence of all Life... metaphysically speaking..
It's the Core of Who we are..the underlying deep connection of All-that -Is....
underneath all superficial storms and clutter created by same Unconscious mind..
Hmmm...It's a differnt VIEW..

When we are deeply looking into the Newborn's eyes....or Best friend's or partner's eyes without any sexual-agenda or any other agenda, absorb into breathtaking view of sunset, or simply Being in stillness with another or with ownself..the Feeling of Connectedness/Wholeness..unexplained feeling.. is  coming from the Essence of all Life, that each of us are part of..One time or the other, we all have glimpsed that deep love..haven't we?  :)

We do juggle with all sorts of things..Romance, Partners, commitment, Duty, Jobs, Fantasies, Survival, Cravings, Judgements, Views .....while underneath all, this deep connection/deep love  is always there as it is..!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 04, 2008, 10:13:53 PM
Ah Sune...good one.

For me, love must be sticky. I can't separate its metaphysical state from my human state long enough, if at all, to get a good look at it. It seems to also be somehow related to inner peace and joy. So, let me stop thinking before I confuse myself by complicating things.

One of my characters once said, "Life is good--not always easy, but good." I'm having that same sort of baseless hopeful feeling. I think it has a lot to do with the friends I keep near my heart.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Gyppo on August 05, 2008, 05:00:14 AM

One of my characters once said, "Life is good--not always easy, but good." I'm having that same sort of baseless hopeful feeling. I think it has a lot to do with the friends I keep near my heart.

Nadine

Nadine,

You give the impression of being a pretty well organised lady, who will come out of the other side alright.  But I'd like to pick up one part of your post and run with it for while if I may...

I don't think hope is ever truly baseless.  But it may be rooted and hidden in some deep inner part of our own nature which we rarely ever see or even acknowledge to ourselves.  No matter how cynical some of us may believe ourselves to be, or even more rarely actually be, there is nearly always a touch of the 'cock-eyed optimist' buried deep inside.  A little spark even in the deepest darkness, in the greyest of depressions.  We may not always be able to see it, we may deny it in the pursuit of what we rationalise as 'being practical about things', but it's there.

I've had three truly bad things happen in my life, which I rarely talk about unless to help someone else in the same position understand what's happening to them, but even in the fastest and deepest of freefalls I've always known that I, sometimes despite my wishes at the time, will bounce.  Even if I have to hit the bottom first and 'bleed a little' because you can't bounce in mid-fall.

The human spirit - and I use the term in the loosest possible sense - is truly resilient.  Your character is absolutely correct.  "Life is good.  Not always easy, but good."

I suspect the characters we create give away far more about us than we realise at the time.  Mine - even if I never put the exact words into their mouths - are usually thinking "This too will pass.", or "Something will turn up."  It usually does, although not always in the form they, or I, would expect.

Baseless hope?  No, that's the inner you peeping out to see how the rest of you is currently coping and giving you an occasional gentle nudge in the right direction.

Gyppo 



 
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 05, 2008, 12:26:21 PM
I don't want to turn this thread into the "Nadine Hour" on BBC or PBS. I do have to say that openly or in PMs you guys/girls have been very supportive. I am okay, really. Confused at times, frightened at times, but really okay.

I do think baseless love dwells in the same block (neighborhood) as baseless hope. As Gyppo says, it is within us. While we can't bounce mid-fall (love that, absolutely love it), we do bounce and more importantly, we can.

I think loving, and risking love, risking saying "I love you" is well worth the bounce. So...be brave, be daring in love...and bounce from time to time...

More thoughts? This thread has been read 16,900 times. I know there are lurkers just waiting to jump in with the rest of us.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 07, 2008, 01:03:38 AM


I don't think hope is ever truly baseless. 
But it may be rooted and hidden in some deep inner part of our own nature which we rarely ever see or even acknowledge to ourselves
 No matter how cynical some of us may believe ourselves to be, or even more rarely actually be, there is nearly always
a touch of the 'cock-eyed optimist' buried deep inside.  A little spark even in the deepest darkness, in the greyest of depressions.  

We may not always be able to see it, we may deny it in the pursuit of what we rationalise as 'being practical about things', but it's there.

... but even in the fastest and deepest of freefalls I've always known that I, sometimes despite my wishes at the time, will bounce.
 Even if I have to hit the bottom first and 'bleed a little' because you can't bounce in mid-fall.


The human spirit - and I use the term in the loosest possible sense - is truly resilient.   Your character is absolutely correct. 
 "Life is good.  Not always easy, but good."
I suspect the characters we create give away far more about us than we realise at the time
Mine - even if I never put the exact words into their mouths - are usually thinking
"This too will pass.", or "Something will turn up." 
It usually does, although not always in the form they, or I, would expect.

Baseless hope? 
No, that's the inner you peeping out to see how the rest of you is currently coping and giving you an occasional gentle nudge in the right direction.

Gyppo 


Gyppo, I simply say...THANK YOU VERY MUCH! !!!
You said it BEST!!



Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 07, 2008, 01:36:33 AM
Gyppo, you may run with my posts any time. (So may anyone else.)

So, some new thoughts? Some stories to share? Any lurkers ready to jump in here?

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on August 10, 2008, 10:21:46 AM
Quote
Is lust a stage of love?

A good question Nadine.  I don't think it is an 'automatic' stage.  For example, I love my friends, and kids, and there's no lust involved there.

Is it a stage in relationship love?  Perhaps.  But it is an emotion all it's own too, surely, where love may not be involved at all.  And do you just mean the strictly sexual interpretation of lust?  What about lust for life?  Or the use of the description as someone being 'lusty' doesn't just mean sexually motivated.

As with all words, there are interpretations.  But lust is a base word, I prefer desires and mores and lots of other descriptive words that are perhaps more associated with love than lust.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Carrie


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 10, 2008, 05:50:38 PM
OMGosh, no...Carrie...not kids or friends in a sexual way.

Like high octane desire. Maybe you said it best with lust for life. Turning the whole thing into a hyperactive action verb.

What's this have to do with love and a love thread. I donno. Partly to add a new dimension to the thread. Partly because as I'm falling out of love (so I'm told), I'm falling into an in between place.

Maybe it is a hunger more than lust. Maybe it is a Discovery Channel marathon of new awareness going on. I'm understanding better how I "define" love, being loved, and being in love; myself; the importance of friendships and relationships; and my hopes for the future...all things great and small.

The only word that came to mind was lust. Maybe not the teenage hormone rage, but maybe exactly that...yet focused differently. Maybe the better question would have been, is lust a stage of life. However, I cannot separate life and love from each other. Sort of like, life is love lived.

Okay, sorry...rambling...next topic, please.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on August 10, 2008, 06:01:25 PM
I cannot separate love and life either.  I know that finding love is the best thing that has happened to me in a long time.  And losing it?  Well, that is sad, but I was thrown out, I didn't leave of my own accord until I was asked to go, metaphorically speaking.

I know I now have a lust for life again - one that was dying.  And a desire to write (if not the discipline!).

Is there true love for real?  Definitions (subjective) notwithstanding, I'll say yes.

Carrie

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on August 10, 2008, 11:06:46 PM
Big hugs, Carrie,

I hope you write again soon.

Love,

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 14, 2008, 07:38:56 PM
I cannot separate love and life either.  I know that finding love is the best thing that has happened to me in a long time.  And losing it?  Well, that is sad, but I was thrown out, I didn't leave of my own accord until I was asked to go, metaphorically speaking.

I know I now have a lust for life again - one that was dying.  And a desire to write (if not the discipline!).

Is there true love for real?  Definitions (subjective) notwithstanding, I'll say yes.

Carrie



Lust for Life..Zest for Life again..  is like born again..Big Hug Carrie..Hold on to that feeling Dear...you'll come out of the hard phase smoothly by RELEASING Emotions that needed to be released..at this time. :-*

There's no seperation in Love and Life..There's no seperation in anything or anyone to everything else..

We see differences, uniqueness in one VIEW and the sameness and oneness in the other VIEW..
as we are different and unique in Outer aspects but at the CORE, at the Bottom Level, ..we all are SAME and ONE..!

At our CORE is the Source of Happiness or Joy or Love or Peace or wharever we are searching deeply..
At our CORE we are Whole and  Complete and Perfect in this moment,..All the Goodness, Radiance is at our CORE..Within us..!

Releasing and Letting Go Unwanted Emotions that anchored to us, would  Free us to Feel the PEACE at CORE..!

http://www.sedona.com/html/PlayVideo.aspx

http://www.sedona.com/Sedona/Public/audioPack.aspx


Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 18, 2008, 01:11:45 AM
http://www.heavenletters.org/a-heart-full-of-love.html

A Heart Full of Love
The Human heart is drawn to beauty. Beauty, love, joy are the food for the Human heart. It cannot thrive without them.


http://www.heavenletters.org/be-accountable-to-love.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/shine.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/moccasins-not-boots.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/do-you-really-want-a-god-who-thinks-the-way-you-do.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/the-beauty-of-wholeness.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 21, 2008, 12:43:26 AM
Messages for humans from Cosmos..!


http://www.innerwhispers.net/purpose16.html

http://www.heavenletters.org/an-affinity-of-one.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 26, 2008, 08:14:09 PM
Prem Rawat Maharaji  -- Messages for the Inner Journey--Inner-Peace


http://www.maharaji.org/main1280.html    ----Never-ending poetic messages with clicks..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-peDvmjkF6s&NR=1  Sunset - Prem Rawat (Maharaji) COMPLETE + Spanish

Prem Rawat Maharaji Interview by Journalist Marta Robles 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8ivv3inUVo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUpldRBxyg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGO1M6a3op4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehyMWWKFIOc&NR=1    "The heart speaks"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7qC6Sr4Gy4&NR=1     "The Power That We Have"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1aykbb9zPE&feature=related       PREM RAWAT FUNNY
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on August 27, 2008, 09:08:16 PM
Are there any SECRETS..?

What can be a Secret in the world of human feelings and emotions..??

Technology and Creativity is taking a Universal Look at
"Human Feelings" and "Individual Universe" of each of us..!!

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_harris_tells_the_web_s_secret_stories.html
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Vienna on September 05, 2008, 07:43:17 AM


well perhaps this shoud be in the crap joke thread but its abt true love so its here...................


whats the difference between true love and herpes???

Herpes lasts forever........................
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on September 05, 2008, 01:05:42 PM
Funny, Vienna. Does beg the question (seriously, I say with a smile), does true love last forever?

Hmmm. I wonder.

I do hope so.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: rewh2oman on September 05, 2008, 03:23:32 PM
does true love last forever?

Without a doubt.

First and foremost: God, unconditionally and wholeheartedly. When I pass from this Earthly body, I'll continue to exist on the same astral plane as He. Hence, this is the reason why death doesn't frighten me. I'll exist forever in His eternal Bliss.

If you're referring to blood and bone souls, the answer can still be yes, although sparingly and to varying degrees. This is where the waters start to get muddy.

Here is one example where the water is crystal clear.
My best friend died nearly 15 years ago at the age of 36. I think of him daily. I'd willingly give up my right-arm if I could see him just once more to share a beer with or simply to give him a hug. I'm sure I'm not unique to others in this regard. This contributes greatly to my melancholy disposition. I'll love him forever.

But, if you're referring to your "soul-mate" when you ask if "true love" exists, i.e. wife or husband (aka The Princess Bride), that's a bit tougher and this is where the waters get murky. If not downright muddy!

Does everyone or anyone on Earth have a "soul-mate"? I don't have a clue. Do I? The jury's still out. Ask me in another 10 years if I'm still around and I might be able to give you a more definitive answer.

…russ
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Nadine L on September 05, 2008, 05:31:02 PM
Russ,

Sounds like your buddy was one of your soul mates. Next time I come to SB, you and I will toast your buddy, and my friend Julie. I still miss her after 21 years.

Nadine
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: rewh2oman on September 05, 2008, 05:38:45 PM
Amen. Bless them both. We will see them again. That I know.

...russ
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on September 06, 2008, 04:55:54 AM
I am grateful and glad to note that the consensus appears to be going in favour of true love.

I know true love does happen and does last.

There will be times when anyone would begin to doubt this entity and then... as if just to prove the laws of nature- true love shines bright, smiles and lets you know your fears were unfounded.

Thanks all of you for your personal experiences that reinforce teh same feeling.

NW

Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on September 23, 2008, 01:42:15 AM
Without a doubt.

First and foremost: God, unconditionally and wholeheartedly. When I pass from this Earthly body, I'll continue to exist on the same astral plane as He. Hence, this is the reason why death doesn't frighten me. I'll exist forever in His eternal Bliss.

rewh2oman


I salute you for your heartfelt statements and courage. THANK YOU rew..that's GREAT!!!

These are  for you all, to have a look..! Sounds on pl... 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOF7IIQYmlI&eurl=http://www.ufoblogger.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvrwFJs8NbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAQEoHFq8QI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O8du3QJgdQ&NR=1   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHUl7s7DS30&NR=1    GALACTIC FEDERATION PART 1- the prophecy has begun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV9Wt_BCI-U&NR=1  57 varieties of alien beings catalogued by 1989

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6KWEFa-I-c&feature=related   Message from Mother earth 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7qFlyiOSq8&feature=related  Message  from Galactic Federation
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on September 24, 2008, 08:10:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtweZxNGk1Y

Be Inspired......Nick Vujicic (life without limbs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j5QdMQtsuY&feature=related
Nick Vujicic in Indonesia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20_tvY31Ehs&NR=1

Revolution with Nick
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: Majere26 on October 01, 2008, 06:32:18 PM
Alas......
I still hold true to my claim that there is such a thing as true love and that it does indeed last forever, however, like anything else in life it is not something that is impervious to change. As all things in life will eventually succumb to that which is inevitable, love is no exception. My wife and i have ended our relationship that has spanned these last 22 years. does this make me love her any less, or her love me any less? I can only answer for myself in this when i say no, not at all. Both of us have realized that at this point in our lives there is more needed for this relationship to go on and love just isn't enough. I'm sure if i were to allow myself to sink into a depression about this I would eventually go through the various stages of depression , denial, rage etc...., in which time I might develope feelings I would associate with hatred, but let's be honest.......after 22 years.....do I really hate her? No, not the least. I hate what has happened, and what I am going through. I hate the fact that I couldn't make her as happy as I had once vowed and hoped to. I hate the fact that I have to wait for certain weekends to have my kids with me, but I don't hate her. Tell me how this love, even in the abscence of a relationship, is not true?
Like a few others to have posted here, I was not given much choice in this matter, and in a fashion I was also forced to leave what was once my home. Still..........I can't bring myself to hate her. Is it because I know better, and that to hate her is not going to remove or replace the pain i feel over this? Or is it because I know the futility in hating someone I have spent so much time with, endeavored and endured so much with....? Is it some higher principle within me that won't allow this hatred to exist? Honestly I don't know. though i do know that it makes nothing any easier by hating, and actually makes things harder. Hate, love, it doesn't matter, I still have to be tolerant and work with this woman over the next several years as our children grow. How will hatred help in this other than to stick two children in the middle of something that has nothing to do with them and they don't deserve?
Perhaps I've matured beyond my own ideas of maturity in this but it matters not. I still know in my heart and in my mind that I am still very much in love with this woman and always will be. Our time has run its course for this time....and I do use the word time loosely.. I hope that one day we can reconcile what we feel and reach a better understanding. I won't hold my breath on us ever getting back together, but I do honestly hope we grow and learn to get past where we are with each other at this moment in our lives.
Thank you once again to you all for the contributions of wisdom and experience you have all offered and the opportunity for me to express all that I have . You are all surely some very loving and wonderful people to have shared that which you have.
                   Majere
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: sune on November 04, 2008, 06:21:18 PM
THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR PERSONAL JOURNEY, MAJERE...We all learn from our own life experiences and from each others experiences too.

Still there's HOPE..there's a way around all these things..there's a way to HEAL ourselves..

"You can heal your life" movie is here....It's an eye opening event...by the Founder of Hay House Publishing company, Louise Hay.
On this web page Movie Trailer and Whole Movie can be watched.

http://www.youcanhealyourlifemovie.com/

Hope you all enjoy the journey..!
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 05, 2008, 12:02:21 AM
Maj and sune,
Thanks for keeping this tender thread alive!
Maj, you have put it quite well... the fact that you two are on your individual paths now does not diminish your feelings nor does it change what you have experienced in this relationship thus far.
I will also stick to my credo... true love is;and does last forever.
While it does feel good to be loved back and it does disappoint not to be loved back, the love we feel does not require reciprocation. True love is, quite simply, a matter of the heart that feels, the head that knows and the eyes that see...
My love is my love. It is true. Will I be loved in return? That is his/ her love. It will definitely make the world spin a little faster for me to get what I give. It will, however, not change the nature of that which I feel and give.
Hope and healing may be spiritual principles that help us deal with the hurt we may feel at times. That hurt is largely a matter of expectation. Giving up on expectation is the most difficult spiritual journey anyone can embark on.
Hurt or not, requieted or unrequieted, expectation is not something I want to give up at this moment in my life.
And you know something?
When you expect nothing but the best, you... generally... get it!
And when you expect nothing... that is what you get... nothing!

To love...
To all the loving that so many beautiful people have shared here...

NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on November 05, 2008, 08:39:55 AM
Ah, this thread has a life of its own, for sure.

I am in a position where my life is changing, love is chaning.  I am discovering new things, losing good things, finding good things.

True love is a thing though - is loving unrequitedly really proper love?  I think love needs to be fed, like any living thing.  If it is starved, it will die.

And sometimes, someone can throw a bucket of water over it too!

Happy Wednesday all

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 05, 2008, 01:03:57 PM
Quote
True love is a thing though - is loving unrequitedly really proper love? 

Loving is really proper love, Carrie... requieted or unrequieted. Our love can grow on its own, fed by our own desire to love ... as also our desire to be loved, for sure.

Once you have experienced love, it never really quite lets you be! ;) It may mature into the kind of rationalization Maj writes about or the kind of healing Sune demonstrates. It can also be the kind of thing many of us other ordinary mortals experience... the ecstacy, the pain, the exhilaration and the anguish... As I said, it feels great to be loved in return. Loving someone irrespective of what is returned, or not, however, going to change the nature of the love we all experience.

We grow. We change. Our love changes, too.

There will be times we want to be simply held and experience the depth of the love we feel in each other's eyes and embrace. Sometimes it just does not happen at the same magical moment for both of us together! Does that make anyone's love less real or less true? We may also feel frustrated at not being understood, at being stood up on most occasions when we really need or want to be loved and at other times someone will just simply walk up and give us the look that says louder than words just how much we are loved.

It may sound like a lot of banter and a lot of disjointed thoughts. But... Carrie... I can surely say... Love does endure. In whatever form we choose to experience it. It simply cannot vanish from where it once flourished. If it did flourish.

Maybe, the wisdom is in being able to understand the difference and letting go when you see all signs of it not being real but only an imagined reality... or being able to hold on because YOU KNOW IT COULD NOT BE MORE REAL!!!!

Love,
NW
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: CarrieSheppard on November 06, 2008, 03:29:56 AM
Quote
We grow. We change. Our love changes, too.


Yes.   I know we can't 'go back'.  When love turns to something destructive, and you don't know why, it's not easy.

But new love - ah, now there's a thing. What if you find a different love, so much better than before, and it's reciprocated?  That would be something.

You might find my 'love song' amusing - it's on my myspace. site.  'Hey what do I know about love' it's called and it's supposed to be ironic.

Have a good day.

Carrie
Title: Re: is there true love for real
Post by: naturewalker on November 06, 2008, 10:16:08 PM
I did hear your song and it IS ironic. Nice lay-out, too.

As I said... the wisdom and maturity make it easier to make out the difference between true love and otherwise.

Have a LOVEly day!